Suvir Saran

Do you pay us for your research? Tamarind is as old as time as people in India would say. The name having indica as a suffix makes the myth perpetuate even more. But Tamarind is originally from the African Tropics. It made its way into India at a time very long ago in history, and so has been treated as a tree native to India. In India Tamarind trees are often married to Mango trees and then the fruits of the Mango tree are supposedly far sweeter and bearing of the required complimentary sourness. :confused: I spent many summer months as a child in Nagpur where I would be with my siblings and friends atop a Tamarind tree and my mother and her friends would be doing the mise-en-place (sp?) for making pickles. Tamarind is used to make drinks, snacks, chaats (street foods), in curries and in pickles and chutneys. We make coolers (drinks) that are had during the Loo Laden (Hot and dry winds) summer days in the Northern Plains. At every street corner in the North and also several other parts of India, you can find street food vendors selling different dishes. Many have a chutney added called, Saunth, Meethi Chutney, Imlee/Amlee Kee Chutney, all referring to the Sweet and Sour Tamarind Chutney. This is sometimes added to the dish as it is made and at other times as a garnish. Candies are made with Tamarind that are eaten by kids during lunch hours at school or as they leave. Vendors are selling these candies knowing that no child can resist the urge of getting some Imlee Ke Ladoo (sour balls of tamarind with thick coating of sugar). They are deeply addictive. Pickles and Chutneys across India have Tamarind in them. Many Indian curries and dishes have Tamarind in them. Vindaloo is one of many such dishes. Tamarind is used across the many regions of India.

You seem to know just what to do. Try Mela. Tell me what you think of the Samosas. They used to be very good. Ask for the owner Bali. And if he is there, tell him you heard about Mela from me and that I had said how good the Samosas are. Maybe that would encourage him to make sure t hey are maintained at that level of a few years back. Tommy, they were so good that a NYC food critic, my partner, a Bollywood celebrity friend of ours, and I, hired a stretch Limo and went to Mela. They did review Mela and we also saw the movie with our friend's costumes during the car ride, for which he won the best-designer award in NYC at Bollywood Awards that year. The trip was Kitsch and was a first for this critic to make in NJ for reviewing. We had fun. Felt tacky in some ways.. But felt we had been very Holly/Bollywood. Mela was very promising then. Not sure how t hey have maintained it. But do give us your feedback. I like sweeter whites both you mention are good. I am also able to enjoy Pinot Grigios with Indian food. Beer is always safe. Champagne can be good. Keep us posted. I want to hear what the Smart Alec- Tommy has to say.

Ajay, I think Yvonne was speaking more about the use of sugar in foods that are traditionally not meant to be sweet. Some INdian restaurants have made it their decision to change the classic dishes by adding sugar or cream or both in their need to make things milder. But would that be considered authentic? I would think not. You are right in sharing the fact that in some parts of Gujarat (Ahmedabad sp?) more than others, sugar is a staple in many if not most dishes. In Surat, sugar is not added to the vegetables or curries but Aam Ras and jaggery are served alongside. Even in Gujarat one cannot generalize. But of Surat, there are many tales regarding their foods and how well people cooked. There is a saying in that area that “Surat noo jaman, Kashi noo maran”. It means literally that you go to Surat to enjoy a meal, and then to Kashi, one of the holiest cities in India, to find peace and die. In other words, the food and pickles of Surat are comparable in spirit to the holiness of Kashi. But Mirchi does serve street foods from different parts of India. More so from Bombay, since the owners wife is from Bombay and a partner of t he owner is also from there. It makes sense. They serve Chaat Papri (North Indian style. Hot and tasty). Bhel Puri - A marriage of north and west.... so hot but certainly has plenty of the tamarind chutney made with sugar or jaggery. Ragda Pattice - Has the Tamarind chutney. But since the pepper is put with careless abandon, even thought the chutneys are sweet, they have a nice hot zing to them. Etc. While chaats will have chutneys that are sweet, they do not taste just sweet. But in many Indian restaurants, they often tend to add to much sugar. Thinking that it will make food more palatable for the western taste. I have had that conversation with several chefs. They tell me that to them adding sugar to gravies is a way of making it mild. It actually offends my palate more than anything. I love having Gujarati sweet sauces and veggies. But they have their own very unique sensibility. But adding sugar to Punjabi Chole (chickpeas from Punjab), Rajamah (north Indian style Kidney beans), Gobi Aloo (cauliflower and potatoes), Maa Kee Daal (black beans cooked in the north west frontier style) is not really authentic is it? In fact even in northern India sugar is added in certain dishes. Like Kaddu Kee Sabzi (pumpkin puree), which is eaten with pooris on religious days. But that is a unique and classic style of preparing a dish. In Southern India even as they love their chilies, Medhu Vadas are served in yogurt similar to the North Indian Dahi Bhallas and the only difference is that they add a significant amount of sugar to the yogurt. But that one straying from the norm has not made them change their way of cooking other dishes. In fact that one dish with sugar makes it become a dish that is noticed easily by others. So, no one wants to discredit the use of sugar. In fact, we would love to see more Gujarati dishes on menus. In fact last week at a lunch I had at Dimple, the owner prepared a special Thali for my guests and me. He said the dishes he served us were what he was going to eat that afternoon. The dishes were all-sweet and came with amazing Bajra ni rotli (sp?). I was almost in tears for this was the first time I was eating Bajra ni rotlis after having had them last at the Munim House in Khar in Bombay. But when I eat Maa Kee Daal I want to see it made as I remember it, or at least close to what it should be. If the chef wants to make it their style, they should call it something else. Why title it as North Indian fare and then give the diner something different? That is what I believe Yvonne was talking about and what I understood. And yes India and its cuisine are too diverse and multi-faceted for anyone to ever group easily into any one thing. That is a huge issue when dealing with Indian food. One never knows, where how and what one should start with or from. What are your favorite street foods Ajay? How do you like them? Where do you get them?

Do you live near Mela Tommy? Maybe you should give it a try. I would love to know what you think. It is attractive. Or at least was when I was there last, several years back. They had the best Samosas I had eaten in the US at any restaurant. Also liked their Chaat Papri ( a street food dish). I keep coming back to street food all the time.

Yes that is what I love about Mirchi. They do not add sugar. In fact, they have many Indians complaining that the food is too hot. Strange but true. One food critic of NYC had their birthday bash the year Mirchi opened at Mirchi. We were around 40 people at the party. I had helped create a menu that was unique and street food like. The party was a huge success and supposedly the best birthday party that critic had ever hosted. It was so difficult to top they said, that this last year a friend had to have it at their home, and we all brought food. A pot luck party. In fact the party got written up in places for it was a fun pot luck. But I love Mirchis street food. They are more Bombay style then Delhi. But very tasty and fun. What are your favorite dishes their Yvonne?

Anyone eaten at Grameen? How is it? Where is it? What is the food like?

Mirchi on Seventh Avenue South has some great Indian food. Anyone know it? What have your experiences been? Yvonne, I live near Mirhci and often order out for street food. I did so last night. Had family from India, and my pantry, for the first time, did not have ingredients I needed to make Bhel Puri or Gol Gappas.

Never heard that one Jinmyo.. actually black peppercorn is more aromatic. But you are a consummate diplomat I see. And also naughty when you have to.

And we believe in India and others around the world as well, that white peppercorn is even more pungent than black peppercorn. So who knows who was right in that argument? For aesthetic reasons, Julia was correct. For flavor purposes, I think Mr. Peppin may need to study spices more closely. Unless he wanted to have more subtle spicing. In which case, black is the better choice. Black peppers are more subtle and less hot than white. But white pepper is far from mild. Calling white pepper, mild compared to black pepper is factually incorrect.

Let us know what you see inside them. And do open them and the black ones very carefully. You do not want to crush what is inside. They really are different. But in taste, the difference is subtle.

Little India and Curry Hill are one and the same to me. But yes I can imagine that perhaps they represent different districts or some such geographic boundary that may seem nothing to the eye but does exist. Foods Of India is a great store. You will love it. Pongal is a great restaurant just a block south on Lexington from Foods of India that has great Southern Indian food. You can go there and eat Dosas (lentil and Bean crepes) and Idlis (steamed lentil and bean cakes). There are many Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi stores in the area. You can find anything from the Sub-Continent that you may miss out there. Most anything. Look forward to hearing from you about your visit here. And do tell me how the recipe of the burfee progresses.

Maybe you can add a 1/4 cup more chickpea flour (besan) or as I often do, add a 1/4 cup of ground almonds. This will help make the burfee less soft. Besan Burfee was my favorite home made dessert as a 7 year old. My mother would make it for us and I would be racing around the kitchen waiting for it to get cold. But I loved it when it was still somewhat soft and warm. As it cools, it gets firmer and also somewhat dry. How do you like it? I could finish a whole big platter full by myself.

Do you have black cardamom? You can use that as well. Just use 3-4 whole black cardamom pods if you have them. They are more intense in flavor. More woody and have some camphor hints. Enjoy making the rice.

I think you may have found the answer yourself. That must be it. The elders could be talking about it too.. Seeing a grown man cook.. How strange... Wonder what they would say about me? But the answer to that is in Monsoon Wedding. But yes, I think seeing your BF cook may be the intriguing thing. I am glad they have you to expose them to another world. They are lucky in seeing your life.. And you in being able to get a few cooking tips. I am sure you will have even more interesting things to share with them and us as you live next to that family longer. Look forward to hearing about your cooking adventures... Keep us posted.

Priscilla, In India, each area or home could have their own name for this rice. In my family we call it Khare Masale Ke Chaawal (Rice with whole spices). Some call it Patiala Waale Chaawal. The Punjabis more than anyone else use whole spices more generously and leave them in the prepared dish. In Lucknow, similar rice Pilafs are made but the whole spices are removed after they have been infused into the oil, or simply tied into a muslin bag that is fried longer than the spices would be open. The bag is later removed. This rice dish is very versatile and easy to make. It goes well with most Indian meals. In fact meats and veggies both go well with it. It makes a dinner of simple daal (lentils) and a sabzi (vegetable) become a "fancy" meal. 2 medium red onions 2 garlic cloves, ground into a paste with 1/4 teaspoon cumin seeds 1/4 cup canola oil plus about 1 cup for deep frying the onion 1 teaspoon cumin seeds 8 green cardamom pods 2 1/2 to 3 inches cinnamon stick, broken in half 1/4 teaspoon whole cloves 1/4 teaspoon black peppercorns, more if you like spicy 1/4 teaspoon coriander seeds 3 bay leaves 3 whole dried red chilies 11/2 teaspoons salt, or to taste 2 cups basmati rice, soaked in 4 cups water for 20 minutes, drained and water reserved 1. Slice one onion into very thin slices and set aside. 2. Mince the other onion finely and set aside. 3. Heat the 1 cup oil (about 1/2 inch deep) in a small (about 6 inches in diameter), heavy-bottomed saucepan over medium-high heat to 350? F. Add the sliced onions and deep-fry them, stirring often, until they turn dark brown, 15 to 20 minutes. Drain them on paper towels and then stand until cool and crisp. Set aside to use later as garnish. Discard the oil. 4. Preheat the oven to 300?F. 5. Combine the oil, cumin, cardamom, cinnamon, cloves, peppercorns, coriander, bay leaves and chilies in a large casserole over medium-high heat. Cook, stirring, until the cinnamon unfurls, about 1 minute. 6. Add the onions and cook, stirring, until wilted, about 5 minutes. If the onions begin to stick, add water, about a tablespoon at a time, and stir. 7. Add the garlic paste and cook, stirring, to remove the raw flavor, about 30-45 seconds. 8. Then add the rice and cook, stirring, 1 minute. Add the reserved water and salt and bring to a boil. Stir once or twice during this time to keep the rice from sticking to the bottom of the pan. Then turn the heat down too medium, cover and simmer until the water is absorbed and the rice is tender, 10 minutes. Turn off the flame. 9. Put the pan in the oven and bake 10 minutes. Let rest 5 minutes. Sprinkle with the fried onions and serve hot.

Yes I guess it goes back to the Dutch East India Company days. Even in India, certain families and dishes call for whole spices to be removed. But most people choose not to and allow for individuals to make that decision based on choice. I like the latter. While I cannot enjoy whole spices in rice and other dishes, I know plenty of Indian and non-Indian friends that revel in their taste. In our home I remember certain dishes where Panditji would put whole spices into a bag made from muslin. This was removed before the dish was served at the table. I tend to make those dishes now with the spices left in it. People seem to enjoy them. I warn our friends about looking for whole spices and removing them as they find them, if they do not want to bite into them. What else do you do with peppercorns Priscilla?

Matthew, If you have some dried red and black peppercorns, would you mind crushing some of each, very gently to see what is inside? Tell us what you find in each. I do not have any pink peppercorns, or else I would have done this myself. Would you mind doing this? Please.

Miss J, Thanks for your kind words. The India board brings those fans of Indian cooking that really love Indian food. Members at egullet tend to be very generous with what they know. I am amazed at their postings around the site. The India board is no different. How wonderful it is for a large world community to be able to find out many intricacies about so many different cuisines. All on one site. It is a great feeling to be a part of this new but rapidly growing world online. What makes it special is that egullet is very unique and making a niche all its own. Keep us all posted on your cooking indulgences. We look forward to learning from you as you cook more Indian food. I wish I had some clues as to why the kids wonder if you will eat outside as well. I certainly had at least a few meals outside every month in India. It was always a fun thing for us to do. And we were not alone. Several family and friends did the same.

Adam I have only seen the pink ones in India. And that too very rarely. The change of color takes place so quickly that it is not very lucrative for farmers to keep the pink ones as such. The pink ones are mostly added for color. It is black and white that get farmers business and sustenance. In India one can find green and pink often as fresh peppers that have not been dried. Once put in brine, I for one do not enjoy them. Molle Schinus is sweeter and less pungent (pepper pungency has heat and slight bitterness) than peppercorns. And it also has a nice aroma. It is that quality that makes is lend perfectly to dishes that are not overly hot.

When I have used my rice cooker, I used double the quantity of water. It has been fine. What kind of rice did you use? That can often make a difference. I find it easier to make rice in a pan. I simply rinse the rice and drain. Take a teaspoon of canola, heat it and add the rice to it, I fry the rice for a minute or a few seconds extra. Add water (double that of the rice), bring to a boil, and cover and cook for 8 minutes. Always works for me. YOu should play around with this recipe. It may seem easier to you as well. I use the rice cooker for larger parties now. How was your burfee? Did it work better this time? With the milk?

Jackson Heights is in Queens. Patel Brothers in Jackson Heights is a great big grocery store selling Indian stuff. It is on the main Indian strip. Hard to miss. My preference for buying Indian groceries of great quality, best in the city is Foods of India on Lexington Avenue. It is between 28th and 29th Streets on the East side of the street. One storefront south of Kalustyans. At foods of India you may pay a few pennies more than at other places, but you get the freshest and cleanest spices. And that makes a big difference in the long run. Enjoy your trip to NYC. And let us know if you need any help.. and certainly tell us what you did here.

Matthew, The pink berries sold as pink peppercorns are Schinus molle. But they are different from pink peppercorns. They are just slightly smaller than pink peppercorns and not as pungent but more aromatic than pink peppercorns. They are most often sold instead of pink peppercorns. In fact the Schinus molle can be bought also as a powder. The white, green, pink and black peppercorns are all from the same Piper nigrum plant during different stages. The black peppercorns are milder than the white. The pink is stronger than the black. When I say stronger I mean the pungency. Green and pink are not as pungent but have a very fresh and zingy aroma and bite. In Goa I saw some of each of these. It was nice being in a spice plantation and seeing all of these growing and drying and in their many stages before packaging.

Welcome. What are your other frequented ones? And do you like other preparations of Saag?

Sichuan Pepper Also called Fagara, is from the Prickly Ash tree, which is native to China, India, and many South and South East Asian countries. The Chinese variety is what is most popular. In India it grows wild and not used very often. Sichuan peppers have been a staple of Chinese cooking for a long time To my taste buds Sichuan pepper has the initial woody aroma of black peppercorns, but while black peppercorns have a pungent and hot bite, Sichuan peppers have a numbing quality like cloves. Sichuan pepper also brown and burns far more quickly than the black or white peppercorns.

Tommy I see you mention it in another thread. Is it really one of t he best in the city? Never heard of it. I love Thai food.