Suvir Saran

And in my now late grandmas home, where I grew up, keema meant a mince made using Cauliflower. It was prepared like a meat keema, but was vegetarian.

I heard it was called Ulta Keema. Some Bengali chefs from Bangladesh have prepared this for me when making stuffing for Samosas. They call the vegetarian samosas Shingara instead. Their keema for samosas is prepared using chicken and has yogurt and peas. In a new menu I have planned for a restaurant opening sometime next month, chicken keema is on the menu. There are certainly many other poultry and meat that are made into keema. I have had deer keema in Madhya Pradesh at a hunting lodge. And wild boar keema in Haridwar.

And if the linked recipes are flops, maybe you can tell us why so and I am sure we can come up with others that may be closer.

Yes that is what I grew up hearing.. Jol Torai (jol meaning water, torai as in vegetable or zucchini in Hindi).

That is very basic and very simple a recipe that I believe only Hemant and I use. The others that I mentioned above are somewhat more involved. A little different. Hemant and I prepare ours with little if any fuss. In fact we would be ashamed to ever reveal that recipe. Michael Batterberry, who at this version on my significant birthday last year (at the surprise party hosted for me at Diwan), fell in love with the dish, and loved it even more after I revealed the little if any preparation and ingredient list of this recipe. He wanted to do a story on the recipe, and I think sometime in the near future, we shall share the recipe, but only after we have accomplished some greater tasks at hand. But again, I am not sure what recipe redpepper has tasted and what they liked about it. Only more detail from redpepper could help us identify which recipe in fact would be the one they need. Suzanne, whilst you think of the cauliflower Manchurian you ate at Diwan, what do you think made it one of the more wonderful cauliflower dishes? What works in that recipe for you? Mind sharing? I am quite a SuzanneF fan... you have a great way with words... and are quite the talented chef and so much more..... as one reads your posts, one discovers so many new facets to the person behind SuzanneF.

Click Here for a thread about Indian Chinese dishes. Click Here for thread on Lahsuni Gobi (Manchurian Cauliflower).

What do you call Good cauliflower manchurian? What do you find working for you in terms of taste and texture when eating a good cauliflower manchurian? In this last month, I have eaten it prepared in my own kitchen, that of another chef in NYC and also a version prepared by a chef I respect in CT. All three versions are similar and yet quite different and each are superb and addictively tasty. We have had some threads on this forum, where this dish has been mentioned. I also remember one in which a recipe was shared. I shall look for it and post. In the meantime, if you do share with us some of what you know and enjoy about this dish, I am sure many that post here, will be glad to share recipes or tips with you. Welcome to eGullet and its Indian forum.

Thali is very close if anyone in NYC wants to sample some of the best Sea Food preparations made Indian style. Their new owner turned chef (founding owner Prasad) is making some of the best seafood you could eat anywhere. And it just happens to be the best Indian seafood in this part of the US. I was there with a friend who is a sea food snob, and the two of us did quite some damage sampling dishes from the dinner menu for lunch. We ate for 6 and left hungry for more. Not food, but more of the sensations that we experienced with each dish. Mussels, crab, sea bass ( ), halibut, shrimp, prawns and scallops were all prepared in ways familiar and yet new. Perfectly cooked and seasoned, the taste of the seafood was just as present as the marvel of perfectly chosen and cooked spices. Prasad, I shall be arriving with many a friend to Thali to share your sea food dishes. A vegetarian for the most part, sea food and beef are two things that can impress me to make a brief switch. It was worth doing so the other day at your restaurant. I was happy I did that. Thanks for sharing with us diners a wonderful plethora of Indian tastes and yet keeping the seafood light and flavorful. And whilst I mention your menu, I must also again congratulate you for keeping on your menu your mothers chicken and lamb curries. They are wonderful and just the experience of cooking what a mother comes and prepares for customers at her sons restaurant is something wonderful. Both my guest and I left with great appreciation for what Thali is doing for the Indian food scene here in the US. I travel around the US for reasons both culinary and personal, she is a well respected food writer, and has her own travels to reflect upon, and Thali gives Indian food a new meaning and we were both surprised to find it in Connectitcut, even before one had discovered it in greater numbers in cities like NYC. PS: I had posted the above at this THREAD in the Indian forum. It states my feedback on Thali after another very successful meal there for lunch last week.

Monica Thali is not even close as what you think. It's a lot closer, just 35 to 40 minutes from New York. I hope to see you soon. Thali is very close if anyone in NYC wants to sample some of the best Sea Food preparations made Indian style. Their new owner turned chef (founding owner Prasad) is making some of the best seafood you could eat anywhere. And it just happens to be the best Indian seafood in this part of the US. I was there with a friend who is a sea food snob, and the two of us did quite some damage sampling dishes from the dinner menu for lunch. We ate for 6 and left hungry for more. Not food, but more of the sensations that we experienced with each dish. Mussels, crab, sea bass ( ), halibut, shrimp, prawns and scallops were all prepared in ways familiar and yet new. Perfectly cooked and seasoned, the taste of the seafood was just as present as the marvel of perfectly chosen and cooked spices. Prasad, I shall be arriving with many a friend to Thali to share your sea food dishes. A vegetarian for the most part, sea food and beef are two things that can impress me to make a brief switch. It was worth doing so the other day at your restaurant. I was happy I did that. Thanks for sharing with us diners a wonderful plethora of Indian tastes and yet keeping the seafood light and flavorful. And whilst I mention your menu, I must also again congratulate you for keeping on your menu your mothers chicken and lamb curries. They are wonderful and just the experience of cooking what a mother comes and prepares for customers at her sons restaurant is something wonderful. Both my guest and I left with great appreciation for what Thali is doing for the Indian food scene here in the US. I travel around the US for reasons both culinary and personal, she is a well respected food writer, and has her own travels to reflect upon, and Thali gives Indian food a new meaning and we were both surprised to find it in Connectitcut, even before one had discovered it in greater numbers in cities like NYC.

Have made several batches this summer. Will make some more as well.

mashed boiled egg yolk can also be that secret ingredient that can make the dressing really delicious. I shall try using celery seeds. Thanks for sharing this secret.

Bhindi raita is very popular in Tamilian homes. Besides making raita with bhindi, they make moru kolambu and the Andhras make Okra patchadi. Don't complain to your Punjabi friends Prasad, we are talking about two very different animals though. The UP style Bhindi Raita is made out of very finely sliced Okra. It is then fried until crispy. Raita is seasoned as you want it to be. And just before serving, you toss some of the Okra crisps into the raita. Mostly on top. The ideal way of enjoying it is to mix it in as you eat it. The okra remains crunchy and give both amazing taste and texture to the raita. My Tamilian and Bangalorean friends have served me Bhindi Pachadi/Khicadi and that is made with yogurt and is like a salad and not the same as our northern raita. They fry the okra and set aside. Then I have seen them make a spice paste with coconut, chile, curry leaves, mustard seeds and in some (very few homes) cases fresh ginger. This paste is added into yogurt. Mixed well. The Bhindi is tossed into the yogurt. A tarka is made with oil, curry leaves and mustards seeds. This is then poured over the okra and yogurt mix. There is only enough yogurt to smother the okra but not too much so as to drown it. They are two very different preparations but yet so very similar. They each taste great.

I am not sure about the authenticity of this Bharta but I use to enjoy this when I had a Bengali cook work with me. I know we are talking about simple home cooking and this was not part of the menu but instead a perfect staff meal. As much as I can remember he use to take a few Idaho potatoes, cover with aluminium foil and just throw them on hot charcoal (usually in the live Tandoor). Take it out after a couple of hours peel and rough mash with a touch of mustard oil and then temper with toasted crushed red chilies, cilantro and onion... may be some mustard seeds and then season. Yesss !! I use to eat it with just steamed Basmati rice, runny haldiwala (Turmerici) masoor dal. Yes it was amazing for me eat that Bharta, dal and a well roasted leg piece of Tandoori chicken, Was heaven... Prasad, the Bengali cooks I know and my music teacher make the same thing you and I have mentioned. And yes they all eat it with the runny dal and rice. It is superb and one of my favorite ways of eating Mashed Potatoes.

Alur Bharta maybe? It is mashed potatoes with mustard oil, green chiles and cilantro. Onions chopped finely are also thrown in. Maybe you know it as something else. It is had with runny masoor dal and bhaat. Amazing!

very well said.

question 1: sorry for the obvious, but taste/texture question 2: mixing the "sauce/dressing" w/the potatoes while they are still warm so they take in the flavor question 3: mostly red, never white question 4: Mom I must agree that after I started making potato salad, all but one answer from me would be same as yours. I found the best recipe for me to come not from Mom, but from Ed Schoenfeld. Ed has been Mom to many. Fat Guy, Mrs. Fat Guy, myself and many others blessed New Yorkers have found in his kitchen dishes that one would mostly eat at Moms. And his rendering of those classics are often amazing and even so without bias. Potato Salad from his kitchen is addictive and so very easy. It was amazing to see that something so easy to prepare and so very simple, can be so exciting to the taste buds. He pretty much said everything you have said to me about the basics for making a good potato salad.

Mongo, I was afraid to share my recipe, for fear that you may find it rude that I shared another recipe for Tarkari Wale Aloo. Our recipes are similar and yet different. I hope I do not offend you with this offering of a Kayastha (Uttar Pradesh) version of tarkari wale aloo. MY BROTHER’S POTATOES WITH TOMATO AND MIXED SPICES Tarkari Wale Aloo Serves 4 When we were kids, this was my older brother’s favorite dish. He literally refused to sit down to dinner without it. My grandmother liked it a lot too, so she encouraged him as my long suffering parents waited impatiently for his tastes to diversify a bit. I, being the younger brother, had to be different, so I refused to eat it at all while I lived at home. But once I left for college in Bombay I relented and allowed myself to appreciate it. Now it’s one of my favorites, too. SPICE MIXTURE 1 tablespoon coriander seeds 2 teaspoons cumin seeds 2 teaspoons black mustard seeds 1 teaspoon fennel seeds 1/2 teaspoon fenugreek seeds 1/2 teaspoon black peppercorns 1/4 teaspoon turmeric 1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper 1/4 cup canola oil 1/4 teaspoon cumin seeds 3 whole, dried red chilies 1 fresh, hot green chili, cut crosswise into 4 1/8 teaspoon asafetida 2 pounds medium, red boiling potatoes, peeled and cut into large chunks 2 tomatoes, cut into large chunks and pureed in a food processor or blender 8-ounce can plain tomato sauce 1 cup water 1 1/2 teaspoons salt, or to taste 1/4 cup chopped fresh cilantro 1. For the spice mixture, combine the coriander, cumin, black mustard seeds, fennel, fenugreek seeds and black peppercorns in a spice grinder and grind to a powder. Transfer to a small bowl and stir in the turmeric and cayenne; set aside. 2. Combine the oil, cumin and dried and fresh chilies in a large wok, kadai or saucepan over medium-high heat. Cook, stirring, 1 minute. 3. Add the asafetida and give it a stir, and then add the potatoes. Cook, stirring often, 5 minutes. 4. Add the spice mixture and cook, stirring, 1 minute. 5. Add the tomato puree and sauce and stir to coat the potatoes. Add the water and the salt and stir to combine. Bring to a simmer, cover and cook gently until the potatoes are tender, about 15 minutes. 6. Uncover and simmer 5 more minutes to thicken the sauce slightly. Taste for salt. Then transfer to a serving dish, sprinkle with cilantro and serve hot.

And now you have me craving for Gongura Chutney. And I only have the Priya store bought one. I normally get some out of the big jar my friend Jyothi Subbarao (who lives between Bangalore and NYC, and whose chef in Bangalore is from Hyderabad, and makes it back home and brings it for Jyothi from Hyderabad to carry to NYC), and it becomes the highlight of my summer. This has been a strange summer for me in NYC.. and I have missed her Gongura chutney. Even Priyas version makes me plenty happy, but the Hyderabad made chutney is sublime.

You are most welcome. Would you mind starting a thread on how you make and what variations you may have for the preparation of Aloo Bharta. It is my absolute favorite dish using mashed potatoes and actually the only version of mashed potatoes that makes me smile when I think of it. How I thank my Bengali music teacher for having brought this marvellous dish into my little world. And I thank all my fellow Bengali cooks in NYC who take time and prepare it for me as staff meal when I visit their restaurants. Do you have a favorite recipe for it? Would you share it with us?

Never had it at any Punjabi family member or friends homes. My family and friends from UP, living in Delhi, had many such amazing dishes. What UP Wallahs, Biharis, Madhya Pradeshis and Delhi Wallahs who are vegetarian can do with vegetables, is just as wonderful and mind boggling as the variety one can find in the vegetarian homes of Southern India. I had the luck of being born into a vegetarian household which was totally food obsessed and each day, dishes like Tarkari Waale Aloo (just slightly different from Mongos recipe) and then elaborate koftas and pasandas made with seasonal vegetables would be served. No meal would be complete without many tastes and textures being present at the same time. So, dishes of different complexities, techniques, temperatures and heat quotients would be made. And then there were pickles and chutneys and morabbas. Bhindi Ka Raita was eaten by me at our home and only one other home when I was a kid. It was a friend whose mother was from Ujjain. But then, as I became a teenager, I found it more commonly available in other homes. Not sure what made it more accessible as I grew older. Maybe I became more aware of it. Now, some of my Punjabi relatives are also making it.

As is usual with you skchai, your speculations come with experience in the kitchen. I have pretty much your appreciation for those words on oil separation. Indian cuisine is not alone in wanting to see that fat does not remain suspended in sauces. But certainly not all dishes need to have the sauce reduced to that stage of separation either. Most home chefs in India, like the ones I interviewed for my cookbook, have their own way of dealing with this issue. Some do wait till that stage, many skip and enjoy the dish without having to fuss for long times in front of the stove.

SWEET AND SOUR BUTTERNUT SQUASH WITH GINGER AND CHILIES Kaddu Kee Sabzi Serves 4 to 6 In my grandmother’s home in Delhi, visitors would arrive begging to eat Panditjis preparation of this very simple and humble vegetable. His recipe, reproduced here, was fabled to be deliciously addictive; you will find out. Kaddu is the Hindi word for the oblong shaped, Indian pumpkin. In America, I use butternut squash instead: it comes close enough in flavor and makes it unnecessary to go hunting for the real thing in Asian markets. The end result is a dish that is authentic in taste and just as beautifully orange. Try it with a traditional Thanksgiving meal. 2- to 2 1/4- pound butternut squash 3 tablespoons canola oil 1 inch fresh ginger, peeled and minced 1 fresh, hot green chili, chopped 1/4 teaspoon fenugreek seeds 1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper 1/8 teaspoon asafetida 1 1/2 teaspoons salt, or to taste 1 1/2 teaspoons sugar 2 teaspoons dried mango powder (amchur) 1. Cut the squash in half lengthwise. Peel it with a vegetable peeler or a paring knife and scrape out the seeds. Cut the two halves lengthwise into 1/2-inch-thick strips. Then cut the strips crosswise into 1 1/2-inch pieces. 2. Heat the oil in a large wok, kadai or frying pan over medium-high heat. Add the ginger and cook, stirring, 1 minute. 3. Add the fresh chili, the fenugreek, cayenne and asafetida and cook, stirring, 30 seconds. 4. Add the squash and stir to coat with the oil. Stir in the salt and sugar. Turn the heat down to medium. Cover and cook until the squash is tender, about 25 minutes. Uncover and stir the squash every 5 minutes and check on the cooking; if the spices begin to burn, turn the heat down. If the squash doesn’t brown at all, turn the heat up slightly. 5. Stir in the dried mango powder. Mash the squash with a spoon to break up some of the pieces. Taste for salt and serve hot.

Or you can fly to NYC and there is a restaurant opening end of this month, where Bhindi raita finds place on the menu. It is delicious. One of my absolute favorite memories from growing up in Delhi. Thanks Monica for making me salivate for it late at night.. now I shall miss it till I have some tomorrow for lunch. Naughty you!

Thanks for bringing this dialogue about what is vegetarian alive. Fish is vegetarian to many a Brahman in Bengal.... and to some on the other coast as well. It is fascinating to study what vegetarians in different parts in India can eat from the fish and even meat and poultry world as one travels through parts of India. Class certainly has played a very important role in defining what one eats. Local availability of stuff too and also other factors. I am happy to be wrong and also happy to learn what each of you can share about what is vegetarian to you and what you find being the percentage of vegetarian consumption in your areas and cities.

I had loved the Udipi restaurant in Artesia. My grandfather treated all us grandkids to lunch there the day after my grandmas funeral. It was superb. It happened to be her preferred restaurant for Southern fare in LA. Glad to know you liked it as well. Thanks for your comments on Masala. I must say we had pretty much the same experience I did think the Idlis at Masala were better than any I have eaten in the US. The Aurora branch made wonderful ones. Maybe you will share your experience after you make a visit there.