VivreManger

One product I love to bring back from France for the kids are the cheap mass produced packages of desserts, widely available in every corner provigo and Arab-run store. The puddings, flans, mousses, chestnut creams, fruit swirls, custards, parfaits, rum baba (ce veut dire "baba à rhum"), creams, trifles etc. are much tastier and varied than anything you can find in the States. To keep them reasonably fresh, you should buy them just within a day of departure and should bring along some solid packing material to keep them from getting crushed, but since they are mass-produced, they travel pretty easily. Depending on the season you may also want to put some ice packs in the container as well. But they usually have enough preservatives so they can stand up to a change of temperatures. This is not elegant gourmet fare, but it is a cheap practical treat not obtainable elsewhere.

This is going to be very low tech advice. Unfortunately it is also not easily duplicated since I rarely time or measure anything I cook, but my experience over a number of years of smoking fowl has been unerringly good. I have smoked chicken, duck, commercial, and wild turkey in a simple Weber kettle grill, nothing fancier than hardwood charcoal (never Kingswood briqettes) and hickory chunks (usually soaked for up to an hour in water or sometimes red wine). I put nothing on my birds except a bit of kosher salt. Don't bother with brining. However when I use a kosher bird, effectively it has been brined. In the lower grate I put an aluminum roasting pan to catch the grease and keep the coals away from the birds so the heat is always reflected, never direct. With hickory wood I get a bacon-like smokey flavor that overwhelms everything but salt so I never add any other spices to the birds. Normally the birds take between one and two and a half hours to cook. A three to four pound chicken at the low end. A twelve pound turkey at the high end. But I should underscore that my times are merely approximate. Furthermore I like my fowl pinkish at the core. The standard cooking times were written by lawyers who want to prevent Butterball from being sued by salmonella sufferers. My last major smoke-out in September yielded a duck, a chicken, and a turkey in one afternoon's work. We finished all but half of the turkey within a day or two. The remaining half was frozen until Thanksgiving when it was warmed up and served for a small gathering of four. It was as moist and flavorful as when it first came off the grill. Smoked food improves with age, even when it has been frozen for two months. My guess is that the kettle temperature is quite high certainly in the four hundred degree range at the start. The result is a crispy skinned bird with the telltale pink smoke line. I let the heat cool off a bit towards the end so it may be as low as 275 to 300 after a few hours. I periodically check and add chunks of hardwood charcoal and hickory wood when I feel it is getting low. I also turn my birds over. I begin with the breast down so the fatty thighs and backbone will naturally baste the bird as it cooks. I then turn it over breast up to achieve the golden brown crispy skin that smoking can yield, that is for about the last half hour or so of cooking. With ducks I periodically - - perhaps every 20 to 30 minutes -- lift them up and let the fat accumulating in the carcass pour out into the roasting pan below. To do this I use a strong industrial strength aluminum $25 dollar cooking fork that allows me to pick up anything up to twelve or fifteen pounds. When cooking something heavier I have to use a fork and spatula combination to turn the birds over. This primitive method works best with high fat commercial birds. The standard supermarket duck cooks more easily than the Whole Wallet elegant Muscovy mallard with its lower fat content. I smoked a wild turkey, but its lower fat content coupled with the high heat did result in a tougher bird, particularly the drumsticks and wings, but even the tough meat was tasty.

My wife & I will spend a short week in Paris in early March. Since this is the one season which I have never spent in France, it will be a new experience. I am seeking advice on two questions. Are there any seasonal products - - fruits, vegetables, cheeses - - distinctive to early March? Do any annual gastronomic events that occur then?

For what it's worth, frybread is, at least according to one website, a 19th century creation of the American Indian reservation system. http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/special/...rairie/fry.html

Two more bakeries to add to the list, both of these are more neighborhood than destination. Of the two I tried yesterday on the UWS, I still find Columbus Bakery 474 Columbus Ave. (@83rd), superior. It is my regular when I go to Manhattan. Their croissants are good, nothing amazingly outstanding, but reliable. Lower on the scale is Georgia's Bake Shoppe, 2418 Broadway (near 93rd). I sampled a raspberry brioche, pain au chocolat, chocolate souffle cookie, currant danish, and chocolate cake with ganache filling. The first taste of the chocolate cake turned me off. It had fridge smell. You know that taste of refrigerater coolant air that food acquires when it has been sitting unprotected in the fridge. A subsequent taste overpowered the first, but ultimately I decided the cake was only slightly better than Entenman's chocolate, a standard higher than twinkies, but not worth a trip around the corner. The other items were ok, but not sparkling, except for the currant danish. They had gotten this one right -- moist eggy-buttery dough, good sprinkling of currants throughout, a good piece of pastry, though to be sure one equalled in many Starbucks throughout the country. I have not done a croissant crawl so I can't compare the Columbus product to others across the City, but it is a respectable nosh. Still it does not match the croissant of Duc du Lorraine in Montreal, which may very well make the best croissant and brioche in North America. The only one to compare - - as far as I can say - - is no longer in business, the much lamented Bonte of Lexington Avenue.

Please don't let your hopes soar for Greenberg. As for Payard's packing, the one advantage my experience had over yours was that my visit was in January. At least heat was not the problem.

I wrote mine already.

I have just posted some pastry suggestions on the original query site. Included are my slightly different take on Payard, a bit more jaundiced. http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...52entry945952

I rescued some old pastry-crawl notes from a trip to NY in January '04. They might still be of interest. Payard, disappointing. Petrossian, good. Ceci Cela, very good, a very nice surprise. Pain Quotidien, mixed To elaborate on NY patisseries. First to dispense with the one not in the running: Pain Quotidien. As the name suggests it is a bakery not a patisserie, but since one of its branches is across the street from Petrossian and a few minutes from where we were staying I thought it worth trying. Their bread is respectable. Pain poilaine it is not, but they bake an honest loaf. The baguette was rustic, chewy, and tasty. The large wheat round bread is a substantial piece of gluten with good hearty wholewheat flavor. I have yet to sample the multi-grain, but it smells good. Their croissant is better than the supermarket variety, and is comparable to the sub-standard issue all too common in Paris, but it does not match what a croissant should be, a flaky, light buttery, brief crumbling communion with warm and wonderful wheat in a field of sunshine. The contrast between the outer dark crunchy crust and the inner yielding white dough should have been more elaborate. They make a so-called Belgian brownie that is bigger and better than the standard supermarket issue, but nothing spectacular. On the other hand their pastries are horrid. I bought two tarts: one lemon and one caramel creme brulee. The base of crust might as well have been cardboard. It was nearly hard as a rock. The toppings were even worse. The so-called creme brulee tasted like a layer of cookless -- the kind kids whip up in the kitchen -- butterscotch pudding on top of a thin layer of vanilla pudding. However I can recommend them for one virtue, a virtue that flows from their vice. Since they are not a patisserie, they know how to pack their product to go. In striking contrast to Payard, the villain of the piece, they know that not all their customers transport their products home on a gyroscopically and aerodynamically balanced pastry conveyor mounted on a special platform of their chauffeured Rolls. PQ offers small hard plastic containers that snap shut and neatly hold the pastry in place. Better to buy them than the pastry they hold. I should have realized what Payard was like when I called them early in the day to place my order. I explained that I would be carrying the pastries home a distance and I wanted to pack them carefully. I suggested that each tart could be placed in a small box all its own and that would minimize damage. They evinced no idea of what I was talking about. In Paris, I take that reaction for granted since one shops at the neighborhood patisserie -- as one should -- and the walk home is only a few feet away. But in mobile car-driven America, I would expect a different response. Their reaction actually encouraged me to expect something as good as Paris, one explanation of their cluelessness. When I picked up my order that evening the tartes were all crowded into one weak large fancy yellow Payard box, more decorative than effective. I suggested that they could put some bakery tissue paper between each of the half dozen or so pieces so they would not move so much. Two responses: the paper would itself acquire the adjoining pastries and why don't I buy one more so there would be less free space. Of course I should have said better the paper than the pastry. I don't really care for chocolate berry melange mousse, but a bit of berry mousse on its own wrapping paper can always be licked off. By the time I got around to ordering, the Louvre -- various mousses in dark chocolate -- was gone, but I did try a Japonais, Manhasset, Chocolate chiboust tart, two NY, NY, and a chocolate mousse in a tin cup to fill the box. I also picked up a few macarons, rose and chocolate. Payard love mousses and I do too, but they are not Bouley mousse makers. I tried the cassis mousse in the Manhasset, the chocolate mousse in the Japonais and in the Notre Dame. None of these were bad, but none of them puts Payard in the major pastry league. Their problem is that for all their mousse might, they don't know how to make pastry dough. The sable Breton in the Manhasset Cassis mousse was as hard and tasty as a rock, a horrid contrast to the delicate cookie at Bouley the night before. The sweet dough in the Chocolate Chiboust Tart made the cookie at the base of the chocolate bas relief in Lu's Le Petit Ecolier, seem like a gossamer fairy delicacy. The pastry is not well-baked. I wonder if they share recipes with Pain Quotidien. As for the macarons, their center was dry and tasteless. I expect the best French patisserie in New York to be inferior to those in Paris, but at least they should be comparable. The divide in quality between Pierre Herme and Payard is far greater than the ocean between them. Payard could not survive in Paris. As I was getting ready to pay, I did notice they had a tarte tatin for sale, but I had already bought enough and the apples on this tarte were far too pale and insufficiently carmelized to tempt me. For your convenience here is what appears on their website. Japonais Milk Chocolate Mousse, Yuzu Citrus Cream, Sacher Biscuit Louvre, Hazelnut Mousse, Milk Chocolate Mousse, Hazelnut Dacquoise Covered in Dark Chocolate. Manhasset Cassis Mousse, Passion Fruit Cream with a Sable Breton NY, NY Lemon Sponge, Berry Syrup, Fresh Berries and a Cream Cheese Mousse with a Manhattan Skyline Silk Screen -- incidentally the twin towers till stand. Notre Dame, Chocolate Biscuit, Chocolate Mousse and Vanilla Bavarois. Saint-Honore, Pastry Filled with Sweetened Whipped Cream and Dipped in Caramel Paris Brest, Choux Pastry Filled with Praliné Cream. Mont Blanc, Sweet Dough, Chestnut Cream, Meringue, Whipped Cream, Chesnut Vermicelles and Candied Chestnuts. Chocolate Chiboust Tart Sweet Dough, Caramel Ganache, Candied Nuts and Chocolate Chiboust Cream. I know Petrossian as a purveyor of caviar and smoked salmon and I was surprised by the suggestion that I try their pastry. Their website lists none and when I appeared at their shop in the morning none were yet on display. Sight unseen and on blind trust I ordered a few. Quickly I realized I was dealing with a staff very different from Payard. One pastry I intended for a friend with a very rare digestive disorder that restricts her diet. One of the few fruits she can eat is blueberries. When I learned they make a blueberry blackberry tarte, I asked if they could make it all blueberry. Though surprised, Gigi quickly agreed. When I returned later to pick them up, I was not disappointed. Petrossian uses as its base, fillo-like flaky dough, a mille-feuille. The result is an extremely light and delicate foil for the fruit above. I gave away three of the pastries to friends at home and so have fully tasted only the raspberry tarte, but it is a very impressive creation. Not too sweet, a slight date-like base below. I could not identify the fruit. I took a small taste of the apple in another tarte. I did not like it as much, but the dough below it seemed equally scrumptious. I also bought a fruit strudel and a savory cheese role. The strudel I have yet to try. I have had better cheese rolls. Ceci-Cela Pâtisserie 55 Spring St Bet. Lafayette/Mulberry (212) 274-9179 Raspberry with brandied cherries, strawberry, apple, creme brulee, meringue, cherry flan. My original itinerary had not included Ceci Cela. From 2nd Avenue I had been planning to take the F train to Lafayette and change to the Lexington Ave. line Uptown to get to Payard. However I discovered that you can't get there from here. I would have to get out, add a fare and cross to the Uptown entrance. Rather than waste my two bucks on Lafayette St. I decided to go down one stop to Spring on the 6 train and check out the Spring St. Ceci Cela which is right next to the station entrance. I was very glad I did. Ceci Cela is what I would call, to paraphrase Pan, a very good ordinary patisserie -- it is a concept I do accept. I don't consider the tartes sampled from Pain Quotidien to have reached that level. CC is the kind of reliable unpretentious purveyor that you can usually find in a Paris neighborhood. Not everything is great, but the standard is high and the price-quality ratio is good. The pastries are a little more than half the price of the uptown shops and the size is almost as large. Everything looked good. Of what I tried -- raspberry with brandied cherries, apple, creme brulee, and cherry flan -- the raspberry cherry tart was the best, the apple the least successful. I also bought some eclairs and a strawberry tarte, but I gave those away without a taste. The pastry dough is neither too hard or thick -- like that in Pain Quotidien and Payard -- nor too soft with the risk of sogginess -- like that of Petrossian. Instead it is of the typical classic French style. The strawberry tart had a rich eggy custard. The raspberry-cherry had a layer of nuts as well. I also very much preferred the atmosphere to any of the other places, narrow and tight as it was. Locals were coming in and out, to be greeted with a familiar word of welcome. But a stranger was also quickly made welcome as well. The Frenchman -- owner, employee?? -- who was running the counter had an easy friendly manner. Although the quality is not as high as the Bontè of yesteryear, the atmosphere was similar. Ceci Cela does not have the precious pretentious quality of the mid-town and uptown patisserie, nor the corporate multi-outlet enforced good behavior of the multi-branch Le Pain Quotidien -- 6 in Manhattan and 3 in LA. I believe CC has two branches downtown and I can well understand the preference for this branch. The other, which I happened to drive by a day earlier, is much less intime. By the way I did not try the croissant or brioche. In general, the best croissant I have had over the last year or so, between sampling in Paris, Montreal, and New York, has to be at Duc de Lorraine in Montreal.

Poseidon Bakery, 629 Ninth Avenue 10036-3721 (44th West Side), NY, 212-757-6173 http://www.wheresyourhead.com/poseidon/pt.html, 9 until 7:00 PM Should be added to the options. A few weeks ago, I tried their: Spanakopita - Spinach pie with feta cheese. Tiropita - Cheese pie with ricotta, cream cheese, feta and mint. Kreatopita - Beef pie with special seasonings. Trigona - An almond paste triangle wrapped in phyllo with honey syrup. Afali - Also known as "Bird's Nest" has a roll of chopped pistachios surrounded by phyllo and dipped in honey. Kataif - Often mistaken for shredded wheat, Kataif is a treat of shredded dough surrounding crushed walnuts and almonds dipped in honey. Galactobouriko - Our famous rich custard pastry. I brought a few boxes to a Greek friend of mine who used to be in the business and she and all the rest of us gave our seal of approval. I particularly recommend the Kreatopita and Galactobouriko. Thanks to Pan for the recommendation.

Unfortunately when my friends and I got there around 10 on a Saturday night a number of the flavors I most wanted to try were gone. The only chocolate-like flavor left was nutella. The dulce de leche was at the bottom of the barrel. I did try a strawberry, nutella, carambola with lime, and champagne mango. The carambola with lime was excellent, but I found the others a bit dull. Certainly the fruit sorbets did not compare to the intensity of flavor of what I have tried in superior ice creameries elsewhere: Berthillon in Paris and Le Bilboquet in Montreal. None of the flavors had the richness of the classic heavy-cream confections of Herrel's, which is my local ice cream parlor in Massachusetts. At the moment, my judgment is that Capogiro puts on a great show, but it could use a bit more work to reach international or even national standards. I would give it a try next time I am in Philadelphia, perhaps earlier in the day when the choices are more.

After all this discussion and my research, it seems that the powers that be have decided to make a reservation for Sang Kee Peking Duck, 238 N. 9th St. (Vine). At the moment however, the powers that be don't really know how many will appear and exactly when this particular Polish wedding will end. The likeliest situation is that the members of our party will be wandering in and out in the course of the afternoon and early evening from about 3 until about 7ish. At any time there will probably be about ten or so, but they won't be the same ten. Sorry for boring you with these chaotic details, but I mention them to ask a question. Is Sang Kee the kind of place that will agreeably cope with such informal open-house chaos? If not is there any place that might? chowfun just mentioned Tai Lake as good for group dinners. Does anyone second that recommendation? As for Sang Kee, I gather that their roast pork noodle soup, duck and dumplings are worth trying. Any other recommendations if we wind up going there?

Don't get me started on Wawa. I did double check on Sarcone's DELI. Earlier today I called and spoke to a human who informed me that they would be open on Sunday. After further doubts were raised on this board, I called again and got a tape, confirming the human. They are open Tuesday through Sunday 9 until 4, closing earlier if the bread runs out. All this other info. sounds great.

I called Sarcone's before posting and they ARE open on Sunday from about 9ish to 3ish. So the Sarcone question is not moot. I raise it again. Any advice on parking? The schedule I outlined in my original message is not changable since others are involved so the alternatives you graciously suggested won't work. As for Chinatown I have posted my questions in the existing thread. So I won't pursue them here.

The scallop dish described is a specialty of Peach Farm Seafood in Boston. At least there I prefer it to their oysters.

On the Sunday afternoon of Memorial Day weekend, I am planning an exploration of the sites and eats of Center City. We will be coming in from Swarthmore in the early afternoon and winding up in Chinatown for dinner. Unfortunately Reading Market will be closed then so I wonder what if anything else will be open? A few years ago Jonny Apple of the NYTimes drew up a list of distinctively Philly food stops. However in my experience Apple tends to go for the dull old favorites rather than the better and more imaginative newer choices. Furthermore a number are in the Reading Market and presumably closed. Although I have the street addresses, I don't know Philly geography. I would love some directions and suggestions. My daughter and I will probably want to see some of the major tourist sites in Independence National Historic Park and grab a bit of street type food. JIM'S STEAKS seems the closest of the steak options. Another advantage over the competition is they don't use Cheeze Whiz. Is water ice anything like RI frozen lemonade? On the drive in from Swarthmore how far would we be from a hoagie at Sarcone's? Is it worth a small detour? Parking on a Sunday afternoon is probably only slightly less difficult than on a weekday, but given the modest parameters of the area in which we would be walking - - between the historic sites and Chinatown - - if we could score a free spot and leave the car there for a few hours, that would be worthwhile. I know that parking in any Chinatown is difficult. Within that area are there any streets where we might be able to find it? Apple's list follows: BASSETT'S ICE CREAM -- 51 North 12th Street, Reading Terminal Market; (215) 925-4315. DOWN HOME DINER -- 12th and Filbert Streets, Reading Terminal Market; (215) 627-1955. GENO'S STEAKS -- 1219 South Ninth Street; (215) 389-0659. JIM'S STEAKS -- 400 South Street; (215) 928-1911. JOHN'S WATER ICE -- 701 Christian Street; (215) 925-6955. PAT'S KING OF STEAKS -- 1237 East Passyunk Avenue; (215) 468-1546. POP'S WATER ICE -- 1337 Oregon Avenue; (215) 551-7677. READING TERMINAL MARKET -- 51 North 12th Street; (215) 922-2317. SARCONE'S DELI -- 734 South Ninth Street; (215) 922-1717. SILK CITY DINER -- 435 Spring Garden Street; (215) 592-8838.

For a Sunday family get-together, we are dining in Chinatown. Based on what I have seen, the choices are down to Lee How Fook Tea House and Shiao Lan Kung. Shiao Lan Kung, the best for Cantonese, specialties are oysters with scallions and ginger, steamed sea bass, dumplings. Anyt other recommendations? Do they make scallops on the half-shell in a fashion similar to the oyster preparation? Lee How Fook, Tea House makes excellent Mongolian hot pots as well as Hot and Sour Soup, lemon duck, salt baked shrimp, and orange beef. Anything good that I missed? BTW what is lemon duck? I know lemon chicken. Is this the same with duck instead of the other fowl? My personal inclination is for Lee How Fook, but who knows what the others will prefer. I assume that Shaio Lan Kung will be open Sunday evening, but out of idle curiosity I called them to confirm. There was no answer today at noon!! Is 215-928-0282 the right number.

Kasha may also be labelled as buckwheat groats. If you can't find kasha in the market, ask for thta. However the most available purveyor, Wulf's, I believe, calls their product by both names.

Michael, Thanks for the great suggestions. Since I am visiting a Greek friend in Philly who used to work in her family restaurant, great Greek pastry would be appreciated. Dominican food would also be worth a try.

BG is a good addition to the list. However. other than the lox and eggs omelette, a brilliant eat-in creation, I don't think it matches Zabar's. Certainly for take-out Zabar's takes the cake. What I am interested in learning about is anything out of the ordinary, something other than the tried and true West Side staples. There is a good bakery, dessert, breakfast, snack place on Columbus Ave. around 80th St. that is also worth a visit.

Over Memorial Day weekend I will be driving round trip from New England to Philadelphia. Along the way I am thinking of stopping on the West Side of Manhattan for an off-road nosh. Zabar's is one old reliable choice, but I am curious about any other recommendations. H&H is always worth a visit. Liebman's Kosher Restaurant, on West 235th St. in Riverdale may be worth a stop, though the response on this forum has been mixed. Murray's Sturgeon Shop is a classic. Is it on 89th & Broadway? I actually think that aside from the herring, which is superb, the rest of the delicatessen fish is better at Zabar's. Any other suggestions? I am looking for places that are reasonably quick and good, offer take-out as well as lunch counter style eat-in. I mentioned deli-type places because that is what I happen to know already and they tend to meet the convenience and speed test, but I am interested in broadening my options. The key is that it be an easy ten minutes or less from the Henry Hudson and the West Side Highway between its beginnings in the Bronx and the Lincoln Tunnel.

Thanks for checking the on-line edition more carefully. For reasons that allude me the vital address details are not included in the article itself, but separated and sometimes not obvious. Now the question turns to issues of substance. How good is the meat?

The NYTIMES of 18 May is carrying a story about the Bronx which featured this particular item about a deli in Riverdale: 'Liebman's Kosher Restaurant is a beautiful sight. Open since 1953, the restaurant makes wondrous corned beef, homemade pigs in blankets, and increasingly rare round knishes. (Brooklynites still mourning Shatzkin's might want to make a pilgrimage.) Liebman's is one of very few places in New York that still make their own pastrami and slice it to order; one of the owners, Yuval Dekel, said he rubs a whole brisket of beef with pepper, sugar, and salt; then he smokes it, and then steams it "until the proteins in the meat just give in."' http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/18/dining/18bron.html Does anyone know it? How far off the Henry Hudson is it? Katz's is unfortunately distant from my usual NY haunts, but Riverdale is managable so a good deli just off the way to the Saw Mill River Parkway is worth knowing about.

The five votes for overturning the ban were Kennedy (author), joined by Scalia, Ginsburg, Breyer, Souter. For maintaining the ban were Thomas (author) joined by Stevens, Rehnquist, and O'Connor. Rather interesting bed-fellows. I don't know of any opinion in which Scalia broke from Rehnquist & Thomas to join Ginsburg and Breyer. Perhaps his Italian wine-drinking heritage determined his vote.

Freshly caught blue fish cooked on hard wood charcoal grill with a touch of olive oil and a lot of garlic is a great dish. Dryed out in the freezer, it is bait. In addition to Autocrat the other great RI coffee syrup is Eclipse. Louis Lunch may be of historic interest and their cooking method is amusing, but the burger does not compare to Mr. Bartley's in Cambridge. As for RI Jonnie Cakes (with various spellings) when I was a kid growing up in Providence there were two restaurants that regularly served them. Curiously both were in Massachusetts. One was the Old Grist Mill, just across the border in Seekonk. The other was the Publick Inn in Sturbridge. Both are still in business. A few years ago I called the Publick Inn (or perhaps House) and established that they were still being offered. I remembered them as supremely greasy, but they went down well with a quart of maple syrup. Also don't forget Cape Cod potato chips.