EvergreenDan

So "excellent sugar ethic" means that it coincides well with your personal preference for drink sweetness. The "momma bear" of sweetness, if you will. Perhaps an excellent sugar aesthetic? You also feel that sweetness brings a favorable emotion. I'm guessing that this is a warm/fuzzy feeling, like comfort food. Alas, I generally have the opposite reaction to a sweet cocktail. This is helpful for me to understand the thinking behind your very interesting cocktails. I have been pondering why I like some sweet drinks but not others.

May I ask what a sugar ethic is? I guessed it was a gastronomy term, but couldn't find any definition other than the obvious ones. Or are you saying that it is right in some way (ethic) for the drink to be quite sweet and that you enjoy it (excellent)? Thanks.

Oh, black, good idea. How about black and red? This is one of my all-time favorites, combining Black Balsams (the Latvian digestif) and Campari. Midnight Ruby 1 oz Gin 1 oz Campari 1/2 oz Black Balsams 1 oz Grapefruit juice Shake, strain, rocks, low-ball

The brand of tonic influences the sweetness quite a bit. I find that US mainstream tonics need a healthy dose of acid, rather than just a miserly lime garnish. Q tonic, not as much. Haven't tried Fever Tree. My favorite addition to a G&T is Campari. It echo's the bitter in the quinine, or you can use soda to make it a bit less bitter. It is a strong flavor, so a gentle hand is needed lest you taste only the Campari. You can let it settle to the bottom of the glass so that the flavor of the drink evolves. An overproof gin with a lot of juniper will stand up to the dilution and other flavors. A Gin and Tonic is gateway to the beautiful world of bitter.

Will: The name. Oh my. Please consider renaming because it sounds like my kind of drink.

Has anyone else had McKenzie Rye from Finger Lakes Distilling? It is completely unlike other ryes that I've had (Russel, Wild Turkey, Baby Sazerac). It has an extremely spicy, dry rye presentation. I enjoy it neat, but haven't had much luck mixing with it so far. (And when I'm in the mood for something neat, it's likely to be Scotch.) http://www.fingerlakesdistilling.com/index.php/our-products

A little hot water loosens those sugar-stuck screw caps. Vac-u-vin would be rather a lot of trouble and expense for no gain. I don't see it would hurt, though.

Oh, my. Please accept my most sincere apologies to haresfur. This was his creation, which I slightly adapted only because I couldn't find bitter lemon. I had incorrect attribution notes when I imported this recipe into Kindred Cocktail this past summer. Again, my apologies to haresur. I have updated Kindred Cocktails to credit haresfur as the creator.

Want prunes? It's quite good. Dirt in my Drink 1 oz Batavia Arrack 1 oz Cynar 1 oz Prune juice 1/2 oz Rye 1/2 oz Lime juice

This is scarily close to my drink of the same name: http://www.kindredcocktails.com/cocktail/bitter-bitter-bitter-bitter 2 oz Aperol (or Campari) 1/2 oz Lemon juice 1 t Fernet Branca 3 ds Old Fashion bitters 5 ds Lemon bitters 2 oz Seltzer OP: Lot's of Campari ideas, if you're interested: http://www.kindredcocktails.com/cocktail?index_type=0&ingredient=Campari

Perhaps you are think of CardAmaro. It is a lovely amaro and has great unexplored mixing potential. Wine based with Cardoon (an artichoke relative) and Blessed Thistle (whatever that is). The woman at the liquor store said her family used to harvest wild cardoon when she was a girl.

Feb issue of Wine Spectator has reviews of 64 single-malts. They seemed to skip over some of the more affordable options, however. It is titillating to read about the $10,000 Bowmore 40 year-old, but I would rather have heard about the $30 Legend.

I have tried a number of bitter, herbal Margarita variations. They work really well with the peppery, earthy flavor of the tequila. Cachaca also works very well with these. Strega, Campari, Aperol, that sort of thing.

Yup. Ditto for liqueurs and sweet spirits. <petting peeve quietly>

I haven't tasted your product, but I'm guessing that the cocktail mixers are very sweet. And of necessity they must be pasteurized. And they are mostly ingredients that are readily available fresh. And some of the ingredients don't take to processing well (e.g. fresh mint). On the other hand, if your Grenadine were well-made, it would be interesting. It does not appear to contain pomegranate, however. It also seems to lack floral notes that some desire. It may be an interesting product, but it doesn't sound like Grenadine. I don't think anyone here is opposed to processed ingredients in some circumstances. Passionfruit syrup, for example, might be well received. Cinnamon syrup, for example, has no fresh counterpart. Orgeat the same.

I should have been more articulate. I think the name's fine. (Gibson ... I mean really?) I intended it to be analogous to comparing a Ransom Old Tom Old Fashioned to a traditional one. Or a traditional Daiquiri to one made with Smith & Cross. Or a "Perfect" Daiquiri made with half lime and half grapefruit juice. The lack of sweetness in the Perfect Manhattan makes it a differnt sort of drink -- dry and austere, rather than sweet and comforting. Comparing them is as difficult as comparing scotch / rock to a Martini. Well, not quite.

Round 2. 1 oz Booker's, 0.5 oz CAF, 0.5 oz Vya dry, 1 dash Fee WBA, home-spiced cherry, served down and cooked. Very, very good. I'd still like to try another dry vermouth. Been meaning to try Sutton Cellars.... I think that this is really a different drink than a Manhattan and shouldn't be compared to it. Anyone else take Chris's challenge?

Good tasting tips, Chris. I start with a tiny portion -- maybe 1 oz total, so that I can add and still have a reasonable drink, or toss it and start over if I go in the wrong direction. I like the room-temp idea. I also taste before ice, although you have to mentally allow for dilution. Good thread.

For fun, I tried Wathen's, CAF, and Vya, 4:1:1, lemon peel, no bitters (a mistake, in hindsight). Not the best dry vermouth choice probably, but a nice drink, if a bit austere (in a scotch/rocks kind of way). Also a softer Bourbon might be good. Maker's Mark? Or 2:1:1 with Booker's?

There is something to be said for following your own path. Drink it if it's delicious to you. I had invited some very good friends over for dinner. I asked if there was anything they didn't like. He replied, "We like everything that tastes good ... and the other stuff too." I think there is much wisdom in this. Amusingly, he has an incredible alcohol collection -- mostly things from Europe and abroad that aren't available here. I brought a bottle of Fernet Branca to his house, thinking I would stump him. He pulled out a small black bottle of some German digestif that made the Fernet taste like soda pop. It was fun.

Chris, at least it wasn't Jack and Coke. I am one of those who do not enjoy sweet drinks much. (And chefs, every duck and pork does not have to have fruit in it. OK?) Sugar is my enemy in most drinks. After mixing (sweet) ingredients for flavor, I usually need to temper the drink with acid. Our arsenal of sugar-removers is limited: acidic fruits, acidic wines (sherry, vermouth, etc), vinegar, and maybe chemicals (phosphate). Adding acid substantially changes the flavor, as well as our perception of bitter, salt, and perhaps umami. Some tastes are easy to manipulate. Want more bitter: grab the dasher. More sweet: the squeeze bottle. More salt: the cellar. But removing "excess" sugar is hard. Why are ingredients are sweet? Is it historical, when spirits were perhaps harsher? Or is it the effect of bathtub gin and moonshine during prohibition? Do processed foods have anything to do with it? Or am I am outlier -- a standard deviation or two from the norm? Does this have anything to do with the late 20th century popularity of very "dry" Martini's and scotch/rocks, now replaced by sweet-tini's? My grandfather's drink was a perfect Manhattan. Maybe it's in the genes.

Alas, I can't find my favorite vermouths in 375ml. M&R and sometimes Dolin are the only ones I've found. I don't know where the availability issue is in the supply chain. I refrigerate and evacuate. I also try to rotate among things like Carpano Antica, Punt e Mes, Cocchi Americano, Lillet, Bonal Gentaine Quina, Fino sherry, Amontillado sherry and so forth so that I don't have too many bottles open at once. I wish all of these came in reasonably-priced 375ml sizes. As for bottle shapes, yes, I don't like fat, short bottles because they use a lot of shelf space. I also don't like too tall, either, although I've customized the shelf to hold Luxardo Maraschino. Anything taller gets poured into another bottle or stored elsewhere. Clear Creek Oregon Cranberry Liqueur is in a particularly irritating bottle. There is a related issue of enthusiasts wanting to have a small quantity of a large variety of things. 375ml bottles would help. I held a "liquor swap" to achieve this. I "sold" some things that I have a lifetime supply of (Creme de Violette) and "bought" some things that I wanted to try (Luxardo Fernet). I had hoped that vermouths and the like would be popular, but no one in this group wanted to swap wine-based things.

Oh Noni No 1 oz Cocchi Americano 1 oz Amaro, Nonino 2 oz Seltzer water 1 sli Lemon (coin) Stir, strain, rocks, top with seltzer, squeeze and drop coin, stir gently Touch of acid to balance the Cocchi, complexity of the Nonino with the citrus / wine flavors. Very nice. Could also be had without seltzer for a stronger drink, I'm sure. Memorable.

I mean dash, although playing with an oz of Fee WBA bitters sounds like fun....

Here's a very simple, delicious duo for those times when you don't want much alcohol: 1 oz Cocchi Americano 1 oz Fino sherry 2 oz seltzer 1 oz Fee WBA bitters I found it absolutely delicious. Light, yes, but with enough bitter umph and complexity (nut/citrus/pie spice) to be sippable. Maybe worth naming. Gonna try this tomorrow with CAF/Fino.