EvergreenDan

Interesting. Is it different from other Sambucci (if that's the word)?

This is a splendid idea. I wonder if the 50ml St Germains work to get you to buy a 750ml, but the 50ml of Creme Yvette might simply be a year's supply for some of us.

Our ingredient editor, Zachary Pearson, swears by this one: http://www.kindredcocktails.com/ingredient/orgeat I haven't made it, but it sounds solid. I personally am not fond of Orange Blossom Water, so I'd add that gradually, tasting as I go.

These go great with any citrus flavor, such as Aperol. I'm particularly fond of: Rhubarb and Rye 1 1/2 oz Rye (preferably overproof) 1 oz Aperol 1/2 oz Rhubarb bitters 1/2 oz Lemon juice 1 Lemon zest (as garnish) It's fashioned after other bitters-heavy drinks, like the Gunshop Fizz. Other Rhubarb Bitters recipes on Kindred Cocktails.

Place an order ahead of time. DrinkUpNY in Brooklyn is free shipping for >$100. Astor is down in the Village, but I bet they deliver, too. I just returned from NYC, but alas didn't get it together to either order ahead of time or make it to a good store. Opportunity lost. I had 6 bottle of Massachusetts Contraband in my e-Cart before I realized I couldn't guarantee it would arrive before I left.

Andy -- bacon-washed vermouth. You know you want to.

You're dead. I'm rather fond of Michel Couvreur 12 year, which, alas, has risen in price since I stumbled upon it. It used to be quite a bargain, I thought. I hate the cork and phenolic-like sealant - a stinky mess to open. I have Lagavulin 16, which I also enjoy as a treat. Somewhat redundant. Bowmore Legend makes a nice every-day Islay. I have some Laphroaig Qtr Cask, which mixes well and can make a high proof cocktail that drinks as if it were neat or on the rocks. I'm also fond of Balvenie Doublewood for the money. I don't have many guests asking for scotch because usually they want a cocktail. Or they're scared.

Last night's Thursday Drink Night at the Mixoloseum: Bernet Frankenstein 1 1/2 oz Islay Scotch (Laphroaig Qtr Cask) 3/4 oz Fernet Branca 3/4 oz Punt e Mes 1 lf Mint Build neat in a lowball or whiskey glass. Spank and drop mint, if you've got it (I didn't but I think it would be a good idea.) Slow mouthful of smoke, spice, earth, menthol and lingering bitter.

Some cocktails seem to be prototypes for a more general class. A Negroni (spirit, aromatized wine, amaro, 1:1:1) seems to work like this, as does the Paper Plane (spirit, light aperitif amaro, dark digestif amaro, sour citrus, 1:1:1:1). Is this the same sort of thing, or just a collection of riffs on a particular cocktail?

And when it's empty, you can use the bottle to store little blue diamond-shaped pills.

Interesting, Andy. That comment predates by about a month the same person's anonymous comment on ohgo.sh where the recipe is confirmed (spelled out). I would love to know who amateurhour is so that proper credit can be given on Kindred Cocktails's Bitter Elder recipe page. While playing with St Germain may not be as thrilling as it was in 2008, this drink is still novel and delicious to someone new to St Germain.

Glad the Martinez is working. I think Cardamom and Anise would work together. How about something absinthe/pastis/Pernod? I might try a Martini with a rinse. Looking in cocktaildb, there seem to be an alarming number of such cocktails in various permutations. You could even try a Corpse Reviver 2, although the orange flavors might be one too many thing going on.

bostonapothecary - here's a current link to the NIST Circular 440 that you reference in the second blog entry. http://www.boulder.nist.gov/div838/SelectedPubs/Circular%20440%20Table%20114.pdf

Thanks for the Fernando. Good drink. It has a surprising chocolaty flavor. I used M&R bianco, and will probably try a dry vermouth next. A fino sherry also seems like would work really well.

Make up a drink and name it .

Steven, did you see this thread? It is broader in scope, but includes what you're looking for.

Wait. Isn't there a food/cocktail pairing thread that this should be merged with?

Some advantages I can see of varying the ratio (second approach): Freedom to pick the liqueur(s) for flavor, rather than sugar content Freedom to substitute liqueurs on hand Ability to adapt to varying sugar/acid content of fresh acidifiers (some lemons are sweeter than others -- season, species, grower, etc). Ability to fine tune recipe When Kyle Davidson started adding cocktails to Kindred Cocktails, he had to find a way to enter his +/- nomenclature (e.g. +1/2 oz is a bit over an ounce). I suggest that we just use 1/8th (e.g. 5/8 oz), but he pointed out that the amount over might be less than an 1/8 oz, and that bartenders should become attuned to their ingredients to adjust. (He puts "fat" or "scant" in the ingredient's notes.) I took this as his way of saying, "If you need to fiddle with the recipe, fiddle with this ingredient." That said, I'm not a bartender, so I don't have to remember ratios. I read the recipe off my netbook, or print recipes and bring them with me.

Assuming you like cardamom and the flavor of the gin, how about a Martinez? I would see the exotic subcontinent flavor of the cardamom going with the pie-spice flavors in a nice complex sweet vermouth. Or maybe even Punt e Mes? If you don't like cardamom, push it far to the back of the shelf.

Tri2Cook - You may have watched Robert Hess's videoon The Small Screen Network where he mentions that it tastes like grapefruit. I think the idea is that it has a similar flavor to grapefruit, but is obviously much more bitter. I find the following to have even more of a grapefruit-like flavor: Bitter Grapefruit Fizz 2 oz Aperol 1 oz Campari 1⁄2 oz Lime juice 2 oz Seltzer water (to top) 1 wdg Lime (as garnish) It is more bitter than a Jasmine because of the larger proportion of amari. It make a refreshing lower-alcohol drink.

I just saw St Germain in cute 50ml nips which are mini versions of the 750. Nips for off-beat ingredients would be awesome. Took a change on Cardamaro. Winner. Took a chance on Parfait Amour. Not so much.

I'm pondering what might affect one's sugar aesthetic. A few ideas: Age. I liked sweeter things when I was younger. Many adults prefer salty snacks over sweet snacks. Bitter aesthetic seems to increase with age. Personal context. Some drinks elicit fond memories, perhaps of family or parents, or of a time when you enjoyed them (e.g. ouzo from a Greek trip). Or negatively -- tequila from sickness in Mexico. Ego. Maybe some drinks are ordered, in part, for appearance. Do kids genuinely like Jaegermeister? Or perhaps even the bone-dry Martini. Or enduring ribbing for a girlie-looking Negroni. Past drinking experience. If you associate sweet drinks with novice drinking, you might be disinclined to like a well-crafted sweet drink. Boredom. Some seek challenging experiences in food and drink. A sweet drink may not be as exciting because they are common. Food. I generally don't like sweetness in my food, except for dessert. Please keep your cherries off my duck breast. Do sweet apple have to accompany every pork chop and Cornish game hen? Good tomato sauce doesn't need sugar. Do you have to candy the pecans that go into the frisee salad? Obviously these dishes are made sweet because a lot of people like them. Exposure. Exposure to foods and drinks, over time, creates appreciation and preference. My wife started out as a fruity white wine drinker. She'll now order a Negroni and loves Paper Planes. She still doesn't like a Martini or really a Manhattan, though. I have work to do... Just some thought. Might be all wrong...

I see Ramazzotti and Averna in the OLCB website, in addition to others mentioned. I recommend them both.

Thanks Andy. Yes, I agree that sugar is unavoidable if you want certain flavors in a cocktail. I have tilted against this several times before. When the ingredients have so much sugar in them, I often have no choice but to add acid to balance them, and sometimes the acid adds additional flavors that I would otherwise prefer to avoid. There are some sweet cocktails that I really enjoy. A Manhattan, for example. I also love a nice Negroni, but there's bitter for the sugar to play against. I also love the sweet/sour/bitter combination, although I want the sweet/sour balance to not be sweet. I do very much like dry cockails, but there aren't very many of them. I like a nice Martini (typical London dry, please) and a Lagavulin neat. In fact, I prefer these for their simplicity. However, when I skip over the liqueur shelf, I also skip over a wonderful world of flavors. Perhaps if the drink is sweet, I need something to "justify" the sugar -- the whiskey / complex wine flavors of a Manhattan, or the bitterness of Campari. Herbal alone is not enough. I would not enjoy sipping Chartreuse neat, although I love it in a cocktail with some acid. I'm trying to understand why I like certain things. Anyone else care to share their tastes?

32cook: Here's an amari guide I wrote/edited. I welcome feedback and other opinions. If you are thinking of mixing with them, then Lucano would be my clear choice. I'm surprised you can get it, because it's uncommon in in Boston. I got it in the Italian section of town. It is a typical dark brown amaro, full of earthy, pie-like spices and flavors. You could use it where a calls for Ramazzotti, CioCiaro or Averna, or even Meletti or Luxardo Abano. I have not had Montenegro personally, but it is very orange forward and very sweet. Some like this as a "novice" amaro, others find it unpleasant. I don't think it would be as universal useful, although I have seen recipes call for it. For sipping, Nonino is very nice. It is higher in alcohol (35% ABV) and lower in sugar, which makes for a less cloying tipple. It is used in some fabulous cocktails, such as the Paper Plane (Bourbon, Aperol Nonino, Lemon). That said, I call a version of that drink made with Campari and Ramazzotti a Paper Airplane, and I like it at least as much (and Lucano would work fine in that).