Robert Jueneman

I tried peeling the asparagus first, then applying frying batter made with potato flour, flour, and rice flour, together with water and malt vinegar, and one egg yolk, then cavitating, drying, and frying. But the batter didn't stick to the asparagus at all well, and left a lot of batter at the bottom of the deep fryer. The taste was OK, but not worth the work, and the clean-up afterwards.

AnnaS, check out the Chamber Vacuum Sealer thread, at There is an extensive discussion of lots of different medium and high end sealers. Some really like the H2O sensor, others (like myself) thought it was a waste of money, since you can just hit the Stop button if things start to boil. Certainly the vac level control is essential, and the soft air very desirable. I considered the Henkelman (Boxer and Lynks) but concluded that they were too expensive. I ended up upgrading my MiniPack MVS-31X to the MV-35XP with the label printer (also made by MiniTorre, but distributed exclusively by PolyScience). After some problems caused by their shipping the unit filled with oil, and perhaps some shipping damage, I'm quite happy with the new unit, which cost about $1000 less than the Boxer.

The MV-35XP has a couple of functions that I haven't tried yet, but might be similar to your "Sperrzeit". One is called "Infusion cycle". "This function can be used to carry out packing procedures with delay that can be varied from 0.5 to 10 minutes between the vacuum and sealing phases (ideal of marinated food products)." The other is called "Liquid Time" and is used to package pouches automatically with liquid products. You can set the desired level from 1 to 10 (1 for cold products, 10 for hot products). I have absolutely no idea what it does! There is also a speed setting for the soft air,m from 1 to 4 (1 = minimum speed, 4 = top speed). When your soft air is turned on, how much time elapses between the end of the vacuum cycle and the sealing cycle? 10 seconds?

I';m not familiar with the VP215C or its dimensions, or what kind of inserts it has, but if it will fit, the slanted liquid tray from PolyScience is absolutely indispensable, IMHO. They make two different types. The one for $75 uses a slanted tray at about a 45 degree angle, with a bottom bar that can be inserted into various slots. They also have a more expensive one that is included with the MV-35XP, and maybe the 45X. It uses a more sharply sloped tray, with a magnetic bottom bar. The cheaper one is great for steaks and other items, as well as liquids. The more expensive one may be better for liquids, but is somewhat less useful for solid items.

Good point. Maybe I'll try it again. I generally don't peel asparagus -- maybe I should.

I think you could briefly blanch the steaks, then sprinkle them with meat glue (transglutaminisase) and compress them in the fridge overnight. That ought to work better than tying them.

When I'm searing a steak that has been cooked sous vide, I use a dry cast iron pan with the heat cranked up all the way, and then at the same time sear the top with a MAP torch, then flip it over and continue to sear. The marbling on the steak releases enough fat so that the steak doesn't stick, and the torch speeds up the process. I don't like to use oil, because my range hood isn't good enough and the oil gets all over the house.

Last night I tried using the starch-infused ultrasonic method of to coat some asparagus. I used a batter from MC, with potato starch, flour and rice flour, mixed with water and malt vinegar. I inadvertently omitted the egg yolk that was called for. I put the batter in a SV bag along with the asparagus, cavitated it for 45 minutes on a side, and then vacuum dried it. Then into the deep fryer for about 3 minutes at 395F. The results were OK, but not spectacular. I don't think the cavitation opened up the tiny cracks that you see with a potato, and the batter was a bit thin and didn't stick very well, in addition to dripping all over the bottom of the chamber vacuum. Tasted OK, but not worth the effort.

The iSi flavor extraction works by forcing the nitrogen into the plant or other cells, and then when the pressure is released suddenly, the cell walls are violently disrupted, and release their flavors into the surrounding liquid. Cavitation could conceivably do the same thing, and that is presumably how the seafood and vegetable stock preparation in MC works. The relative efficacy of both techniques would be an interesting comparison.

My collection of magic powders doesn't include any Ultra-Crisp. I guess I'll have to get some and try it. Or what about adding the potato starch technique to other veggies, like asparagus, or brussel spouts, and deep frying them? In fact, I think I'll try the asparagus tonight, along with steak and lobster for a stay-at-home Valentine's Day dinner! I wonder -- should the asparagus be pre-cooked sous vide, then coated, then fried, or even fried twice -- just like a French fry? I saw some nice big, fat asparagus at the store yesterday, so they are about the same size as a steak fry. So maybe the same recipe would work?

Apart from cleaning your watches, remember that they are also used in MC for enhancing flavor extraction in vegetable stocks or truffle butter. Last week I tried to used mine (a small model) to enhance flavor extraction in prawn butter, but the crushed prawn shells broke the SV bag and could not finish the test. Yes, I am aware of the possible uses for vegetable and sea food stocks, although those aren't very high on my list at present. I've ordered a solid tray to be used with the Branson -- perhaps it would eliminate the need for a SV bag, if the stock could be concentrated in that tray?

Interesting question, and I don't know. As I understand it, the point of cavitation WRT French fries is to roughen the surface to that the potato starch can penetrate and adhere better. Might that apply to other ingredients, e.g., things that are often cooked with a batter? Maybe fried fish? That's why I'm posting -- looking for ideas, and suggestions!

I think if I were faced with that dilemma, I would opt to put a couple of slide-out drawers under the stove-top, and put two or even three sous vide immersion circulators, or even a couple of rice cookers and PID controllers there. For the last four years, I scarcely ever turn on the oven except maybe to cook a pizza, whereas the sous vide rigs are in daily use.

Very fair question, Tri2Cook! Now, I've made double-cooked French fries for 40-50 years or so, and they are certainly OK -- especially when right out of the fryer. But as someone said, even a monkey ought to be able to make hot, fresh, French fries that taste good right out of the fryer -- the real question is what happens after they cool a bit, and what they "feel" like. Certainly there are lots of fast food joints that fall down in that regard. To my mind, taste isn't the only important factor -- auditory and other sensory "crunch" factors are also important to the overall dining experience. And it was the extra delicious crunch, plus the soft, mealy interior that made those fries so appealing. That said, I've only done this once, and I just bought nine big Russet potatoes to see if I can improve on the recipe, or at least reduce the prep time. Stay tuned -- this is a work in progress! Also see my recent post, "Ultrasonic fruit and vegetable cleaners, " for a potentially cheaper solution, and one that might offer additional benefits. Bob

I recently acquired a Branson B5510DTH ultrasonic cleaner, primarily to make the starch-infused, triple-cooked, vacuum chamber cooled, ultrasonic cavitation-assisted superlative French fries featured in Modernist Cuisine. The first attempt at using the device, although time-consuming, resulted in absolutely superlative fries -- the best by far we have ever eaten. But at a little over $1000, it's a rather expensive appliance -- I figure that the first batch of fires cost $75 a fry! So I'm looking for other applications to justify the cost. The SonicsOnline web site (where I bought the Branson) also lists a very interesting device, the Sampson Multi-Purpose washer, for only $399. I wish I had seen it before I bought the Branson. Cf. http://www.sonicsonline.com/ultrasonic-food-cleaner-3d-soul-system.html The Sampson is a 3.4 gal device that is intended for washing/disinfecting various fruits and vegetables, including such things as corn, lettuce, broccoli, etc.. It uses three different elements to do that -- a thin nano-coating of silver to kill germs, an ozone generator to provide additional disinfection, and an ultrasonic sweep-frequency from 30 kHz to 50kHz to dislodge soil and other nasties -- even from your toothbrush or hairbrush. The reduction claimed for various pathogens, including E coli, was impressive -- it basically reduced them to zero. These days, the incidence of various pathogens in fruits and vegetables, as well as the potentially toxic chemicals used to preserve them, makes such an approach very attractive. Now, I don't know if the Branson will do as well, without the silver and the ozone. But I suspect that dropping a couple of quarters in the disinfecting solution, as well as a tiny bit of hydrogen peroxide, might do just just as well, and it would save me from buying yet another appliance! Does anyone on this list have any experience with the Sampson device, or this technique? A Google search show that Hammacher-Schlemmer used to sell a similar device that was made in Germany, but it is no longer available.

Today/tonight I made the starch-infused ultrasonic French fries from MC, and my wife and I agreed that they were absolutely the best we had ever eaten, bar none! They were deliciously crunchy on the outside, and soft and succulent, rather like a baked potato, on the inside. Even thought the initial cost was about $75 per fry considering the cost of the Branson ultrasonic cleaner, I think it will be well worth it over time. Because I don't have a combi oven, I cooked three potatoes (750 g, divided onto two bags, after brining them) in a big pan in water on the stove, in two SV bags. I then drained them and let them cool in the freezer for about 20 minutes, while I made up the potato starch mixture. I drained the original water mixture and transferred the potatoes to two new bags, and added the potato starch mixture, then put them in the Branson ultrasonic cleaner, which had been degassed and brought up to 64C. After 20 minutes, I flipped the two bags over, and gave them another 20 minutes. I then put the fries on a rack, and put them in my JennAire oven on the dryer function at 100F for about 20 minutes. After that, I transferred the fries to a rack, and put them in my chamber vacuum and ran it it five times at maximum vacuum. Several times it timed out, unable to reach 99% vacuum, so I had to stop and restart it. Then I put them in my Krups Professional Deep Fryer at 330F for three minutes, and afterwards put them on rack in my cool garage, with an electric fan blowing on them to cool them. Then finally back in the deep fryer at the maximum setting ( 375F), but unfortunately this isn't quite hot enough. So instead of merely 3 minutes, I had to give the fries closer to 6 minutes to reach a nice goldren-brown color Served with ketchup and Boar's Head Creole mustard, together with two SV lamb shoulder chops, with rosemary and garlic confit, the results were absolutely worth the effort! Bob

The next time I buy some fresh meat, I'm going to try it! I don't have a link, as it was e-mailed to me. I don't want to violate anyone's copyright, so I would suggest that you contact the Busch representative in your country. In the U.S., I spoke with Dennis Gibson, at dgibson@buschusa.com.

OK. Finally, all is well with my replacement 35XP, and my apologies to everyone who has been bored to tears by all of this! I'm still having some problems with the instructions as to how to calibrate the unit for my altitude -- I'm going to have to ask MiniPack California to contact the folks in Italy to resolve the issue, but I can't get below 192 mbar during the calibration phase, whereas the instructions say to press STOP when the vacuum reaches 0 mbar. However, I tried the boiling water at high vacuum trick, quite successfully. I filled a cup with ice and distilled water, and then submerged a shot class in it, and left it there so the glass itself would be cold. I ran out of patience when the temperature reached 0.045C and wouldn't get any lower, so I poured out about half of the shot glass and put it in the chamber vacuum at 100% plus 40 seconds. Shortly after reaching the 100% point, the water started to boil, and then the strangest thing happened -- a thin layer of ice formed on top of the boiling water, apparently due to the evaporative cooling. Boiling ice -- damnedest thing I have ever seen, in my entire life! In any case, I'm sure that the new unit is coming very close to the published 2 mbar final limit, regardless of the calibration questions. I hope that PolyScience will give me a post-mortem on what they find when they disassemble the returned unit. And again I have nothing but praise for their customer service people, and I'm going to write to their president and tell him that. After setting up the new unit, I decided to drain and replace the oil in my 9 month old MVS-31X, as well. That oil was somewhat milky-looking, perhaps because of some dissolved water vapor. -- maybe due to Heston Blumenthal's triple-cooked, vacuum-cooled french fries. But there was also some small amount of sediment, which I cannot account for. I am inclined to believe that vapors from cooked food may contain some small amount of solids that get sucked up. But in any case, I'm gong to be checking the oil much more frequently that in the past, and replacing it as required.

They're widely sold from the back of pickup trucks here in Taos, NM. Locally grown and roasted.

I buy mine from www.dougcare.com, and I have and use nearly all sizes, from 6"x8" to 8"x10" (the most frequently used size), 8"x10" with a ziplock feature, to 10"x12", and I just ordered a package of 12"x18" for large items, like a brisket. 12"x18" is too big for my MV-35XP, but the cost and weight of 500 of those vs. 1000 of the 12"x14" made the difference. I can just tuck the excess behind the seal bar, and the cut and seal bar makes it easy to tear off the excess. For really big items, you can use a roll of FoodSaver bags and cut them to size, the use them on the outside of the chamber vacuum, like a FoodSaver. Just remember to turn the cut-and-seal bar around, first, if you have one. All of these are the 3 mil boilable bags. I also have a few retort pouches that are way too long, but I haven't used them yet. They would be good for canning at higher temperatures (250F). Bob

I just installed a water softener with a sediment filter in front of it and a whole house charcoal filter after it. And I've ordered a reverse osmosis filter for under the sink. Sears carried everything. This might not be an answer for your rental unit, although you might ask your landlord for a break -- particularly if you tell him that you are thinking of moving, because the water tastes so bad. But in my case, I was tired of all of the calcium buildup on glassware, and especially on my immersion circulator. The RO unit should get rid of the residual sodium and other nasties in the drinking water, but it doesn't make enough for dishwashing, etc.

The story of my MV-35XP has been a long saga, but the end is near. I would like to publicly thank and commend Joe Stryble and Jason Sayers of PolyScience for their absolutely exemplary customer service. Although I was willing to replace the vacuum hose and the exhaust filter, they were concerned about the possibility of internal damage, and they therefore shipped me a new unit and arranged to pick up the old one. It should arrive tomorrow. They previously shipped me the liquid tray, which instead of being like the slotted type included with the MVS-31X, is more steeply sloped and has a magnetic plate to hold the bag in position. Nice! Jason personally tested the new unit, and drained the oil before shipping it. Hopefully MiniPack will start shipping units dry, as recommended by Busch. Before packing up the old unit, I drained the oil, and was quite surprised by what it looked like. The new oil is crystal clear, but the stuff that came out looking like coffee with too much creamer in it, but with a greenish hue. After letting it settle for a couple of days in a glass jar, I was even more surprised to see about 1/4" of grayish sediment. Now, I've never drained the oil in my MVS-31X -- maybe it is nasty looking too, but has anyone else ever seen this? The only thing I can figure is that I packaged some chicken and rice I had cooked, and it might have still been a bit warm -- maybe some vapor got into the oil somehow? I have no idea where the sediment came from, but I am going to check the oil more carefully, from now on. BTW, if anyone has a chamber vacuum with a Busch pump, Busch has a 20-page user manual that is much more detailed than the four page version included by MiniPack. In it, they talk about an optional gas ballast. There is also an optional exhaust filter pressure gauge. The gas ballast is intended for use in conveying condensable vapors. But as I understand it, the pump has to be run within a shut-off value in the suction line, operated for about half a hour so the operating temperature rises the approx. 75C. Then you open the shut-off value, suction out the air and vapor, then close the shut-off valve and operate the pump for another half-hour. Sounds like a lot of work just to make Heston Blumenthal's triple-cooked, vacuum-dried french fries! I don't know whether the exhaust pressure gauge would fit inside the MiniPack or not. The alternative is to measure the current drawn by the unit while it is operating (using an amp meter, or a Kill-A-Watt meter). If the current drops significantly, that indicates that the exhaust filter has broken through and must be replaced. If the current increases, then the exhaust filter has become clogged, and must be replaced.

I covered this recently in the sous vide thread. The short answer is that cooked food should be consumed within 72 hours if held in ordinary 5C/41F refrigerated conditions, or frozen indefinitely. See the US Food Code at http://www.fda.gov/F...51.htm#part3-6. Parts C and D of section 3-502.12 deals with cook/chill and sous vide preparations, and are particular interesting. I'll delete sections that only apply to commercial processors: C) Except for fish that is frozen before, during, and after packaging, a food establishment may not package fish using a reduced oxygen packaging method. D) Except as specified under ¶ (C of this section, a food establishment that packages food using a cook-chill or sous vide process shall: (2) Ensure the food is: (b) Cooked to heat all parts of the food to a temperature and for a time as specified under § 3-401.11. (d) Placed in a package with an oxygen barrier and sealed before cooking, or placed in a package and sealed immediately after cooking and before reaching a temperature below 57°C (135°F) (e) Cooled to 5°C (41°F) in the sealed package or bag as specified under § 3-501.14 and subsequently: (i) Cooled to 1°C (34°F) within 48 hours of reaching 5°C (41°F) and held at that temperature until consumed or discarded within 30 days after the date of packaging; or (ii) Cooled to 1°C (34°F) within 48 hours of reaching 5°C (41°F), removed from refrigeration equipment that maintains a 1°C (34°F) food temperature and then held at 5°C (41°F) or less for no more than 72 hours, at which time the food must be consumed or discarded; (iii) Cooled to 3°C (38°F) or less within 24 hours of reaching 5°C (41°F) and held there for no more than 72 hours from packaging, at which time the food must be consumed or discarded; or (iv) Held frozen with no shelf life restriction while frozen until consumed or used. (h) Labeled with the product name and the date packaged. I find that the Brother label maker does a great job, and the label stays on even after immersion in the water bath. The labels produced by my MV-35XP chamber vacuum stay on OK in the freidge or freezer, but come off when cooking.

I'd like to thank NIck Reynolds and Douglas Baldwin for helping me to understand this provision. According to http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/IndustryandRegulatoryAssistanceandTrainingResources/ucm095724.htm#slide slide 31, between 21.7% and 66.7% of fish are contaminated with Clostridium botulinum (A, B, E or F), and especially if they haven't been eviserated properly. Normally, obvious spoilage look and smell indications would tell consumers not to eat something that had been subjected to adverse temperature storage conditions. However, Modified Atmosphere Packing, including vacuum sealing (even using the Ziplock technique) may prevent normally competing spoilage products from forming, but DO NOT prevent clostridium from creating the lethal botulism toxin from the spores, without any obvious signs of spoilage. Freezing doesn't destroy the spores, and the threat is that improper handling (transport or storage above 0C), leaving food out to thaw, etc., could lead to increases in the spoors above safe levels. An even more detailed discussion is available at http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/Seafood/FishandFisheriesProductsHazardsandControlsGuide/default.htm. My take-away from all of this is that unlike most meat, it is probably NOT a good idea to bag and freeze raw fish for later sous vide cooking UNLESS it was frozen when you bought it, you were able to keep it frozen while driving home, and kept it frozen after bagging. Even then, you should label it to indicate that it must be kept frozen, and thawed under refrigeration and consumed within 72 hours after thawing. There are about 10 incidents of botulism every year, but I don't know how many people were affected per incident. But it is often fatal, unless medical care and anti-toxins are immediately available, so it isn't worth the risk.

First, read Douglas Baldwin's essential screed, at http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html. Then start with the pinned (older) sous vide eGullet thread, and read EVERYTHING. Then buy the Modernist Cuisine set, and figure out how you are going to save enough to remodel your kitchen and buy all of the new toys you will end up wanting!