food1

Matthew, I also suspect your right. As somebody whom as always held Michelin in high regard, I too am really wondering what are the merits of the whole thing. What does it really mean now? Michelin harp on about consistency but Im starting to believe they are the furthest away. As I remarked earlier in the thread, Im truely gobsmacked at some of the star recipients this year. Been the cynical git I am, it looks more and more that they work to a political agenda as much as anything. I wonder if the likes of Fergus Henderson really wanted to be given a star? Will it be more trouble than its worth for him? What is it 15 years St John has been about ? Why give a star now, what does it actually say or represent. Then theres the the chinese restaurant in Mayfair. How can it be right that they make some places wait years for a star but at the same time readily award stars to places that still have wet paint on the walls. Im really struggling to see what Michelin now stand for because if its just down to food on a plate, then fifty odd stars should of been doled out.

All this 'rising star' stuff is a load of bollocks. It doesn't mean a thing. Just ask Marc at fraiche, how long did they dangle him for? For what its worth I still don't think Michelin as gone far enough in handing out stars. I cannot believe the Plummed Horse has a star. Im gobsmacked. Still no second star for Martin Wishart, its a piss take.

You'll get that free won't you?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary you've got to be kidding. Are you doing as a dare! Ditto, can't wait for the 'review'! Friends of mine went six weeks ago, I did ask why at the time and I hate to say this, but they said it was pretty kak. Apparently the food is bland and said it felt dated, no personality to it. My own thoughts on the place are the same as my last thread a while back. Way, way over priced, its two rosette not two michelin, which they kind of forget it seems. (unless you get free rooms etc - ALARM!!!!), desperately trying to be something they arn't .ie Lets pretend Mr Schwab is still here! Fuk knows why anybody would want to spend their hard earnt cash there.

If you read my first thread on this subject, I outlined three (brave) restaurants that I know of in the UK who operate in a similar vein. Harry's place Lincs, Artisan Yorkshire and Mr Underhills Shropshire. Sounds like you haven't been to any of them. Are suggesting that the UK would like to see more of these sorts of restaurants? I hope so.

When you next plan a trip to the Sportsman, count me in, as long as its not a Sat night! From what I hear and read, it sounds just the job.

I think your missing the point slightly. At three star level, it goes without saying that your hardly going to have your food and wine dumped in front of you etc and then pay a massive bill. The point I was making was just how fluid and natural some of these places were in comparison to here. The confidence that they had in what they were doing and how well they are supported. In the case of Astrance, on such a small scale. Where would you get a twenty cover, three michelin star place here? Bloody no where, because we are not the oh so cultured dining out public that some like to think they are. It was the correlation between the restaurant and the customer which I found most interesting. The fact that the French just seem to get on with it, without all the pomp and ceremony. The fact that are an abundant number of very small restaurants that prosper out there, as the French just don't seem to have all the hang ups that we have here. We came across a very back street restaurant called Spring, run by an American chap. This place was tiny beyond belief. It is a sixteen cover restaurant, possibly no bigger than your average front room, which also housed his kitchen! Again it was one of those places whereby you didn't know what you would be eating until the plate arrived. How many Brits would trust and support that sort of set up? For me that was fantastic but just drove home the massive general attitudes between us and the French and for that matter the Spanish and Italiens. As I say this place is well off the tourist track, supported by the locals in the main. Tried to make a reservation for dinner but it was fully booked until March. Although the chef, Dan Rose wasn't really interested in a star, he went on to say that alot of Michelin inspectors ate here on their nights off. To me that said it all and it was so refreshing to be in a place whereby style over content ( The UK answer to doing everything) didn't come into question.

There is always a healthy debate going on with regards to Michelin stars etc in the UK, which I would like to add to! I have just returned from Paris (jesus, its bloody expensive, more later) but what a difference in the mindset of michelin starred restaurants and that of the UK. I strongly feel that we have a far harder time here from Michelin BUT I do think we bring alot it on ourselves. Ate in five michelin starred restaurants, three one stars, one two star and one three star. Comparing the two countries, I honestly think that we in the UK are soooooooo hung up on frills, celebrity and frankly down right pretentsion, in order to justify a Michelin starred restaurant. Why? We found Paris completely the other way. Amongst places we dined at, the most refreshing place was the three star restaurant, Astrance, which has a three month waiting list for dinner. It is a small, twenty odd cover place. There was no army of waiters to ambush us, no champagne trollies coming around and no choice on the menu. It was a case of a take it or leave it attitude, this is what we do and if you don't like it, tough! It was great. This is my point, how many people here would appreciate this set up? Im sure there would be a few characters on this site who would hate it because they wouldn't get all the fuss and drama, which is almost a given here in the UK. Also, I suspect that some probably wouldn't get the idea of having to trust the judgement of the restaurant in feeding them. Still a big British hang up. But why, the shorter the menu and the better the chef, whats the problem? There are only three restaurants in the UK I can think of and have visted, whereby they operate in the same sort of manner, Harrys Place Lincolnshire, Artisan Yorkshire and Mr Underhills Shropshire. There are plenty of small, understated Michelin starred restaurants in the Paris Michelin guide alone, so why not more of the same here in the UK? I find alot of Michelin restaurants here akin to an old folks home, that are desperately over complicated and stuffy in comparision to what we've recently encountered. The French, god bless em, I believe are miles ahead on their outlook of restaurants. Anyway, got to talk to the chef at Astrance after lunch and again what a difference. So down to earth and open. His outlook was that he is a three star chef, who runs a restaurant. He simply didn't get the UK's bullshit celeb chef culture. Asked why chefs here just seemed to want to be famous. He sincerely couldn't understand the culture here. Neither can I, but thats a different story. As for the food, it was done with great skill but was low key in its style. Superb ingredients, served simply. It demonstrated a great confidence that unfortunately you just don't see in this country. We did have a few let downs, mind you. Paris is still capable of turning out shite food, like anywhere else. For example, had a few 'soup a'l onion au grataine', (when in Rome n all!!) barring one they where absolutely shocking and at an average of ten quid a bowl. Very, very expensive to dine out, I'm broke! You are looking at paying up to seventy quid, for a starter dish and then pro rata for the rest. This is at one star level. I kid you not. Cost of Astrance, my eyes are still bleeding! The place makes London positively cheap, dining at Michelin level, which is a plus to us.

To be fair Phil, I don't think The Star can in any way be measured against Wisharts. I hear what you are saying but they are totally different kettles of fish, in respects of style and execution. Completely agree that Wisharts is due for a second star and is one of my fav restaurants. Why michelin thinks its a great idea to dole out stars to pubs is beyond me, as it sends out such mixed signals. I have always believed Michelin is in the wrong and blame shouldn't be levied at the eaterie. Is it easier to get a star for a pub set up than an a traditional restaurant set up? Who knows, but I always sense that pubs can certainly get away with more than a restaurant, in ways. Bit like a woman wearing mens clothing!!! As for the Star, its very, very good at what it does, just note how many have tried to copy its formula. One or two embarrassingly so. I too have had a couple of iffy dishes here but again that could be said of anywhere. I think the style of the food is right on the money for the sort of place it is. Avant garde is someting it need never be or would suit it. When I go to The Star, having a big plate of pork etc is what I want not something that as been sous vide for seventy two hours. My only concern for the Star, is that it retains its honesty, in view of the addition of a chefs table etc. Looking forward to the release of the forthcoming Michelin guide.

Just a thought John, where would you suggest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are probably right on that score, seems such a hassle to get a table. Sounds like you have to go bearing gifts, let them look you up and down and then hope they like the look and sound of you!!!!!!!.............then pay a huge bill at the end!!! Is the place worthy of such? Somebody please let me know.

I bet Joe public can't wait for that!!!!!! P.S MSK are really expensive, there are several other suppliers doing the same thing.

Daft question I know, any tips for getting into Astrance between Jan 6th- 8th. Is it worthwhile just to turn up and hope for the best?

I agree, went about a year ago off the back of a visit to le champ sauv. Really enjoyed the place. It's understated and operates in a low key sort of manner, which I think is great, very much like me!! The food is straight forward with no hint of pretention, well cooked. It's refreshing that it's not trying to be o so avant garde, which seems to be deemed the only way to go by so many. Look forward to going back sometime. P.S Does the chef work alone?

Shit! Five month holiday, How much was he earning at H.H?!!!!! Gonna have to have a word when I next see him! Good luck with the Michelin boys, it's about time they started giving out where they are deserved, I mean if certain chefs can be awarded a star after just six months, on the back of where they have worked, then what the f..k is going on? P.S The above, i.e reasons for giving a star after just six months, came directly from a mouth of a michelin inspector, whom I grilled somewhat earlier in the year, as frankly I thought it was a piss take.

So Marc do you know if he's got anywhere lined up to work? PS Are you starting to get the 'michelin' feeling yet?!

Well I hear on extremely good authority that Jason and his girlfriend are still on a sabbatical. Was informed they left H.H, as they became fed up. Its a real shame, as I reckon they had done all the hard work and would have in the very near future been awarded a star, which I believe was very important to him. He really had a great platform to showcase himself but obviously it was not to be. Something he may well come to regret, especially if by chance they get awarded a star in a couple of weeks time. At the end of the day, he had a boss who gave him total control over the food side. I have been back to h.h recently and its fair to say that the food has come down a notch or two from Bruno cooking but it would be very wrong to suggest its at all bad, its not. Not quite as polished. I believe its given the owner, Andrew, time to take stock of his business and channel it in a way he feels comfortable with. I wish him well.

John, what I mean by michelin standard is 1 star, 2 star etc. Any other rec's. Looked up ze kitchen galerie, looks good. Would you be able rec any food markets/ shops that may be worth visiting?

Thats the one! I realise this has probably been asked a ton of times but are there ANY Michelin standard restaurants to be had in Paris, whereby one can eat for the equvelient of £50- £60 sterling, per head?

Well unless I've completely misunderstood the euro symbol,( which I hope I have, even if it does make me look a dickhead!), the 160 euro starter in question is at Resturant Le Meurice, Paris, which hasn't been a one off. Im a little confused now, are menu's etc in Paris priced in euro's of French francs?

Im in the same boat, seeking decent food without the need for a mega bank loan (yeah right!) Been checking out various michelin places and thought some menu prices were a miss print. i.e 160 euro's for a starter dish. Who the hell can afford such prices? Definately looks like the michelin circuit is out, unless somebody knows otherwise.

Interesting point on the 2 star front. This is where I feel there is a very fine line. When does a place like the Star stop being a pub of sorts and instead a full blown, fancy pants restaurant? My own thoughts on the 2 star ambition is that it may be the worst thing they could do, for obvious reasons. I honestly hope they don't piss about with their format too much, as at the moment they are on a winner.I suppose time will tell.

Going mid Jan, really looking forward to it, even though a few have been a little disappointed by their experiences. May be a bit of a god send, as going to Paris for a few days beforehand and all Im being told is that I will need to remortgage the house to afford it at mo! Chance would be a fine thing!!

Just a thought, but why does a pub really need a chefs table? I know its the Star Inn, but Im still struggling with the concept, in view of the refined but rustic nature of the place. Just hope the Star isn't going to lose that real genuine feel that has always made it such a grand place to go.