PhilD

Howard - couldn't agree more. The shame is that I really liked the food, and could see why it had a star. But I wouldn't return because I hated the experience....for exactly the same reasons as you.

Is "there" Lafayette Gourmet - or Bon Marche? Robyn (a little confused) ← Two different departments stores. Le Grand Epicerie is the food hall in "Bon Marche" which is on the Left Bank (IMO the best department store in Paris). Lafayette Gourmet is the food hall in "Galleries Lafeyette" another department store (next to Printemps) on the Right Bank. Both have cafes and food outlets. The OP was asking about Bon Marche, TarteTatin posted about Lafayette.

Paul is OK, all over Paris and now in London - good quality sandwiches etc. But it is very much "office take out food". There maybe lots of food outlets (I didn't think 100's), but the quality is pretty poor - for example one of the busiest is McDonalds...!

Adey - what camera do you use. The photos are really crisp, good resolution and it looks like no flash.

Individual restaurants will have there holidays at times to suit them. However, there isn't a general shutdown in March like there is in Paris in August. Some of the top chefs have longer breaks than others - I think the extremes are Michel Bras and El Bulli in Spain which only opens six month a year. All the top starred restaurants will have their equal share of tourists as it would take a fairly well healed community to keep them going. It may be counter intuitive but my guess is the more "out of the way" place is going to have more tourists rather than less. The top restaurants in Paris (and other very large cities) will probably have a greater proportion of locals simply because of the surrounding wealth and the nature business community. In my experience it is very rare to meet a "obnoxious tourists" in the top restaurants, but that said you may be unlucky - but that is it is simply bad luck. Be reassured though most of these places have widely spaced tables, plush sound deadening furnishings, and are quite adept at dealing with inappropriate behavior - phones, camera flashes , etc. The "obnoxious tourist" is more of a problem in the mainstream, but I find they tend to head for the obvious places, and the contributors to this board tend to guide you to the less obvious better food choices, and therefore less touristy.

Not certain it is Michelin starred. I liked it and didn't find it stiffy - but we did sit on the terrace on a sunny lunctime. La Table d'Oliver Leflaive is just around the corner and a good spot for tasting. The food does look good, a rustic menu that goes with the wine tasting - we simply tasted. Lots of coach tours though.

I wasn't aware that restaurants closed at this time of year. In France restaurants are open pretty much all year round apart from some that close for summer holidays in August (i.e. the whole of August). But these tend to be in the big cities like Paris - all the locals head for the beach and so do the restauranteurs, shopkeeper etc. And as the crowds are heading for the beach/countryside the restaurants in holiday areas won't be closed. Apart from that restaurants will be open normal hours, and simply close for the main holidays, easter, christmas, and some public holidays. Some traditional and *** restaurants don't open at weekends, but many do. Obviously there are more tourists in the summer than earlier in the year as the weather is far better. Peak tourist season is July/August. I would go for May/June because the weather in Mar/April is less predictable. As a tourist yourself it is tricky to avoid restaurants full of "obnoxious" tourist because good restaurants in tourist spots will be full of tourists (and Paris for example is one big tourist destination). When you know where you are going research the board and you should avoid the "tourist traps" and stand a chance of eating more "local". If you really want to avoid tourists you need to go to non-tourist places out in the countryside.

I am afraid the food at La Defense is pretty poor, there ae some places around the plaza but none that I would recommend. However, there is a nice small restaurant a short walk away in Puteaux called "Le Bistrot du Boucher" (106 Rue Republique), it is classic small bistro in a old butchers shop, it is busy at lunch, but you don't need to book, they have a menu and ALC. I don't think I ever saw a tourist there. La Defense is a nightmare to navigate, especially to get off the plaza (deck) and down to the surrounding areas. Here are my directions (I used to work there): Facing the city with your back to the Grande Arche, turn right between the Opus 12 and the Ariane building (you are on the Esplanade du Generale due Gaulle). Probably signposted Ile de France. You head past a big HSBC building (with interestingly architectural wooden fire escapes - worth seeing) towards the Ile de France offices or Parking Villon. On your left there is a balcony overlooking a small park, you are 6 stories above it, towards the end there is a glass lift, take this down to the ground floor. You may need to wait to get into it as it is controlled by an access pass but it is used all the times so just scoot in after someone else (there is another slightly grotty car park lift further on). Once on the ground simply walk across the small park, follow the road under the expressway, and bear right at the roundabout heading along rue Republique into the centre of Puteaux. The restaurant has a red front and is opposite the town hall. This sounds very complex but it isn't that far - maybe a 10 min walk .

Felice, the place on the 1st floor is more of a cafe than a restaurant, it is off the large space at the top of the escalators that come out of the food hall, and i think it has been there a long time. I also don't remember a Matsuri, but they have had a rolling renovation program that has increased the size of the shop a lot. When we were last there (earlier this summer) I recall the Delicabar looked like it was about to undergo/complete renovations.

Don't believe so. They are cafe's for people to grab a snack whilst shopping. Remember 99% of the people there are simply doing their regular shopping, we used to go there most days to buy our dinner, to locals it is simply a shop, albeit a good one. Also, it is a department store rather than a market, in Paris markets are a very differnt proposition.

Roger, not certain I agree. We lived in Paris 18 months ago and found * restaurants to be similar in price to London ones. In fact because the £/€ was better back then I thought they were a bit cheaper. But, I agree that *** in Paris are far more expensive (not that we have many in the UK to compare). As to feeling comfortable in restaurants and having fun, I find it takes a little time to settle into the culture of a city. When we first arrived in Paris we did find it stiff and formal. But once we understood the culture we found it very relaxing and good fun. I think there as many stiff and formal British places as there are casual and fun - my experience last weekend at the Yorke Arms is a good example. However, I believe Gill was talking about the food on the plate rather than the ambiance of the restaurant. I would love to argue his point but I don't think I really understand it. Is it a new anthropomorphic style of food criticism?

He also has a pop at us - "Let me tell you: the opinions of the sort of people who’ve got the time and inclination to write to papers and publishers simply for the pleasure of the sound of their own pursed and sanctimonious prose are a peculiarly weird and onanistically myopic little troop." I couldn't link the rant against guides etc with the review. I find reviews like this enjoyable to read, but I rarely rely on them to help me choose a restaurant. I am past trying to differentiate "the good story" from an accurate review. If I was a professional reviewer, who ate out all the time (at my employers expense) a guide would add little value. But when spending my own money I like to have some clues. I also don't believe many of us naively use just one source of information: a guide is simply one of the inputs, which I weight accordingly. Does Michelin really drive restaurants to a singular type of food? Or is this a "chicken and egg" discussion i.e. does restaurant cooking follow a trend which the guides then reflect, or do the guides create the trends, which chefs then replicate in the hope of recognition? To me it is the former, an example would be St John/The Eagle and the trend towards British food. Another trend is the "molecular" style of Adria and Blumnthal. Did the guides create the trends or simple reflect them? Part of the problem in the UK is the general lack of quality across the restaurant scene. The number of starred restaurants is quite low compared to the total number of places, and non-starred places can be a real lottery. I would argue that this creates quite a small homogeneous sample size. In other countries France or Spain for example have much greater depth and breadth of quality and therefore get a greater variety in the same rating system.

I wouldn't say they are destination lunch spots but if you are in Bon Marche they are fine. They are fairly typical of the places you get in food halls the world over, reasonable food and a good bet for a quick snack. The Bon Marche ones are great for people watching, the ones on the groundfloor are in the food hall, the 2nd floor one is in the middle of the young designers section of womens wear - I believe it has an outside terrace but I maybe mixing that up with Printemps.

Thanks. It is interesting that there seem to be two very different dishes that have he same name. The "stew" that is slowly cooked and the " torchon" where the hare is rolled around foie gras and truffles. From my reading the Senator Courteaux's original recipe was very similar to a Civet, with a similar list of ingredients (no truffle or foie gras) but with a more complex and involved cooking method (although I have had deboned civets). The "torchon" version with added foie gas and truffle looks like quite a different dish, that has been developed from the rustic original by a succession of chefs. I wonder how many restaurants serve a civet masquerading as a Lievre a la royal and happily charge the extra?

...and how does the stew version compare to the standard dish of Civet de lièvre (a dish I have had in numerous places).

The food was good but the place seems to be a throwback to another era – it is like a “serious” restaurant from my childhood, all hushed tones, and filled with the local worthies. The cooking here would shine so much brighter if it was framed better. We headed up for a weekend in Yorkshire and booked into the Yorke Arms for Saturday dinner. It is a great looking place and as others have said is in the middle of nowhere. But you walk in and it is like walking into a church, it is so quite. We are shown into the chintz lounge for a drink and menu perusal, but opt for the bar instead, but even this was quite, with no sign of any locals. The menu has three sections, the dishes of the day on the right hand side, some additional dishes (I assume the regular fare) and a surprise six course menu. It was good to see local Grouse on the menu, and we commented that we had just been talking to the keepers from the local (Vestry) estate in The Crown up the road (there are two in the next two villages both good village pubs). The maitre’d then floored us with his comment “I hope you have left them up there as they are not our type”, as you can imagine we were lost for words. After a quick perusal of the menu we asked the maitre’d to give us some more info on the tasting menu, “I am sorry I can’t I don’t know what is on it”. We had an 8:30 table which seemed to be one of the later ones, so replied “but you must have served some already surely you know?”, but no “the chef decides what to serve it changes”. OK it is call a “Surprise Menu” but I am reluctant to lay out £60 without some clue as to what I may be eating. If it wasn’t the only place to eat for miles we would have walked out, this was the most pompous, snotty maitre’d I have come across. The food was good. My partner had a crab starter which was very good, including an excellent crab tortellini with creamy cockle sauce. My pork belly with langoustine and beetroot and pumpkin accompaniments was pretty average with very bland pork and langoustine. My partner had Hare for her main course; the good bits were well flavoured, tender and moist. However half the dish was dried out and tough. My Grouse was good, very tender and moist, and served with appropriate accompaniments. We skipped dessert, and headed for a magnificent 29 strong cheeseboard. All English (I think) and all in great condition. It would have been great apart from the instruction “you can choose 5 cheeses”. Why? Do people go mad and sample all 29? I would have thought there were far more subtle ways of controlling this. Overall not a great meal, the cooking is generally good, but with lapses. However, the ambiance isn’t great, it is one of those places were no-one seems to be having fun. Everyone is serious, and whispers to each other. For £156 (£38 bottle of Chianti) it should deliver far, far more. We stopped at t The Star in Harome on the way to Whitby the next day. We only had a coffee but in comparison it seems a much more fun place with much more friendly staff.

Sorry I stand corrected. However, I was wondering if Michelin stars are the factor that pulls everyone up. A aspirational food culture ensures that a broad spectrum of restaurants produce good food.

Still don't think this answers my question. I see Michelin bibs and stars as quite a good measure of quality. In my experience the ones that get "the badge" usually have correspondingly good food. Isn't it good that young chefs are aspirational and want to get recognised by Michelin...? Service good quality food, served with care and attention and won't the ratings (Michelin and others) naturally follow? So what is wrong with having that aspiration? OK one can argue that Michelin isn't perfect but it is still quite a good measure to assess restaurants. I wonder how true your assertion is that in France chefs don't aspire to a Michelin rating. I notice that even Christian Constant who is one of the chefs who moved "down-market" and downgraded his restaurants from starred Michelin status now has earned some back. Yes, France does have celebrity chefs, and there are quite a few serious cooking programs on TV. However, my guess is they don't have quite the "celebrity culture" we have in the UK.

Why the negative on the Michelin aspirations? This also comes through on the Masterchef thread. Most British restaurant food is appalling, and that is reflected in the dearth of Michelin starred places. There are lots of honorable exceptions to my sweeping statement. BUT in the UK maybe less than 0.1% or the restaurants get a Michelin star (or bib), in France is seems to be a much higher proportion. In France I can generally find a decent meal in most places I visit (not all Michelin rated ). In the UK I am "surprised" if I eat well. It shouldn't be like this. Can anybody help me here? Are the two linked?

I shouldn't divert my own thread, but did anyone see that plonker in his French vineyard in Chateau Monty on C4. I had to leave the room. The voiceover made me long for the intellect in Masterchef. Can't understand why he selected an English co-worker to go to France - distrust of "johnny foreigner"? You would have thought fluent french was a qualification. But maybe there was another reason especially since the Italian g/f stayed at home. I was hoping for an interesting program about running a vineyard in France......I should know better. But I now understand his comment about "needing to have a relathionship with shit" it sums up the program.

I suppose it is, as you choose from a selection as you would in a traditional ALC. However, the tasting menu is designed for you to choose a number of dishes for a mix and match meal. Each one is quite small, almost tapas style, so I think they recommend 5 or 6 dishes each. You will see this reflected in the prices the starters and mains are approx. £9 and £11 respectively on the tasting menu as opposed to £15 and £30 for starter and main on the traditional 3 course ALC.

David - Bon Marche is worth a visit, it does have a wide range of Foie Gras so you may find something you like. It is a good one stop shop for lots and lots of interesting products (it is big). The quality may not be the best of the best but it is pretty close in most departments. It is also very good for fashion so worth heading to the clothing store across the bridge that connects the two stores if you or your wife get time. If you head up to Bon Marche pop around the corner to 51 rue du Grenelle and visit Barthelemey, it is tiny, but is in the top echelon of Parisian cheese shops and IMO one of the best . Very, very good for goats cheeses and Roquefort.

Julot - good to hear you enjoyed it. Juan and Drew run a good shop and restaurant. I frequented both and they helped me gain a reasonable understanding of French wine in quite a short time. I used to simply asked them to give what was interesting when I popped in for a drink on a Friday night, and they made up interesting mixed cases for us whenever our cellar needed refilling. When we left Paris last year we filled up the car with wine and so we are still enjoying their selections. They usually have a program of visiting wine makers at the weekends in the Autumn (running up to Christmas), ask Juan for the listing when you next go in. They are always good independent producers from interesting regions.

I believe you still need to reserve - but they hold tables for the hotel so if you are a guest it should be simple.

Are they? I assumed they were either all junior chefs or (as someone else said) working in catering rather than a restaurant. As junior chefs I doubt they decide what goes out of the kitchen, although thinking back to some of the meals I have had in the UK I may be wrong on that point...!