PhilD

Calum - I am looking forward to your review. We enjoyed the old Lumiere a lot more than LCS on our last visit - good food and great hospitality. I hope the new owners are as successful.

We spent a few days in Edinburgh just before new year, maybe not the best time to visit as the city was full of Hogmanay revellers. The ones we tried are as follows: Valvona & Crolla's "Vincaffe" which is upstairs in their Multrees Walk outlet, is pretty good, it serves modern Italian food at a reasonable price. I thought the wine list was pretty good value. We wanted pizza but they had run out of dough, but the other dishes on the menu were fine, although neither of us can really remember the individual dishes. They have a few other outlets across town, we had a coffee in the Jenner's food hall (run by V&C) which was unremarkable and dissapointing give the hype over the brand. The food hall lokked OK, but mostly the usual suspects in terms of product (we didn't go to the original shop though). The "Grain Store" near Grassmarket, serves modern food in an old world loft. We couldn't get in for dinner but popped in for their £13 set lunch. I had a really good black pudding starter followed by excellent pheasant. I wish we had made it to dinner there as it had been recommended to us by a number of people. The restaurant is verging on a tourist destination but the cooking was excellent and for the price a real bargain. "Dubh Prais", is a little restaurant, in a cellar on the royal mile (opposite the SAS hotel), we had NYE here and the food was very good. We had been given this tip by some regular visitors who return to it year after year. It served an excellent modern take on serving haggis (it came with a sauce but I can't recall the details) and some very well cooked main courses. Even though it is on the Royal Mile I believe it is still overlooked by the tourist hordes. I would love to head back for a normal dinner. Martin Wishart, in Leith, is really at the top end of Edinburgh dining and is really superb. Try to get into it for lunch which IMO is a bargain @ £22.5 for three courses (although watch the wine list). Our meal here was superb and I would head back when I am next in Edinburgh. I can't compare it to The Kitchin as it was closed during our visit, but if The Kitchin is close in standard it will be worth a trip. Also worth noting another Edinburgh restaurant earned a Michelin star this month - The Plumed Horse also in Leith - I have read no reports on it though. We also had a quick drink in the "Dome" which is an old bank - it is very glamourous (or at least was at Christmas) but normal pub prices. They had a couple of dining choices in different room, the food looked basic but at a fair price, the setting is very nice - old and clubby.

UE - it sounds as though I have been lucky. Out of my three hard core m.g meals that push the envelope, Fat Duck, La Alqueria (at the El Bulli hotel in Seville - featuring the greatest hits menu from El Bulli) and Tragabuches (Ronda), only Tragabuches was less than great. We have also eaten at Mugaritz a few times, and whilst I don't think it is m.g. it has some of the attributes, but each time never less than perfect. OK a small sample size but I find I have a worse hit rate at "classic" restaurants, with maybe a third of them missing the mark. If, like you, my experience had included such a high proportion of misses, I too would be a sceptic.

Not sure if that's the case, Phil. I thought the two stars had gone with Claude from Ludlow to London as it was, in effect, simply a relocation to different premises. Of course, he then lost one this time last year. ← John - IIRC they opened in London September '07 and got the first star in Jan '08, then two stars this Jan. There was a healthy debate at the time, arguing that because he had moved the whole restaurant including FOH then it should have retained the two stars from Ludlow rather than needing to "re-qualify". Hence my comment that it is a combination of chef and restaurant - he needed to demonstrate the new restaurant worked as well as the old one in order to get his stars confirmed.

UE - thanks a very good review. I went last year with five freinds, I found it interesting that every dish divided opinions, everyone had a different favourite and a different dislike. We still discuss the meal a year later, thus a truly memorable meal. Re your comment "I admit that I approached The Fat Duck as a skeptic" . To me the debate of "m.g." versus classic cooking appears to be like the question do you like red or white wine. IMO "m.g." restaurants offer a nice balance to the great classics, I love eating across the full spectrum of restaurants, and appreciate the variety. Like the wine question I like them both, and they meet different needs and situations, I don't see the need to "take sides". I like good wine, it can be either red or white, the same is true of restaurants I like good a restaurants be it a classic or "m.g".

well evidence would suggest not, there's plenty of 1* places especially who obviously have the accoutrements and 'complete package' to be starred but the chef goes and they lose it. a local (to me) example simon gueller wins a star at rascasse, leaves - they lose star, opens guellers - wins star, leaves guellers - they lose star, starts at box tree ilkley (previously 2* but now no star) within few months of opening - wins star. so it's not the chef? ← I probably should have phrased it better. Agree the star goes if the chef goes, but the new restaurant still needs to deliver. Isn't Hibiscus an example? It's two stars didn't simply travel with Claude.

Trip to Leeds is seconded. ← Or head East to "The Star" near Helmslsey.

Apparently the chef left Tean too. From JournalLive: And Seaham Hall seem to have retained their star. ← Doesn't it depend on cut off dates. If the chef leaves prior to the close date for the guide then the chances are that the star won't stay. If the chef changes post cut off (late October) then the star stays, but only because the printing presses are already running. Stars don't "stick" to either restaurants or chefs, they stick with the complete package. Any big change late in the year will result in lost stars, changes early in the year give enough time for the restaurant to be assessed.

I was very impressed by the warmth of the congratulations that Marc received for his first star, and the insight Stephen Harris gave us on WOM. After those it seemed a bit churlish to whinge about those that had made it. However, it does seem very patchy. If St John deserves a star, why does Hereford Road only get a bib. Clearly both have been reviewed, but for the life of me I can't see why St John is judged better, if anything Hereford Road now has the edge. Both deserve a star. These sort of perverse decisions make me question the voracity of the guide. I wonder if the recruiting policy accounts for this, they seem to have quite a narrow selection criteria, which probably results in great consistency, or possibly "group think". Averaging around 40 years old, inspectors.......most have attended hotel school, and then worked for five to ten years in the hospitality industry before applying for a job with the MICHELIN guide Maybe choosing some inspectors from the ranks experienced consumers rather than just hospitality industry insiders would help?

All the top restaurants in SS are worth visiting, thus it is a tricky choice. I have eaten in them all, but most recently I have returned to Mugaritz (last visit last year). It is a restaurant that polarises opinion, and I was wary of taking 5 of my best friends there a couple of years ago. However, they all loved it, and interstingly they all had different likes and dislikes. I think Mugaritz is pushing the boundaries more than others (although a few years since I visited the others) and this may account for the divergent opinion. My prediction is that if you don't go, you may regret it as it gets more and more plaudits. Tapas in SS are very good and I would caution against over planning. There are lots and lots of bars, and many are excelent. My advive is to follow your nose/instincts and choose which ones look good. Aim to try 4 or 5 a night, and snack in them all rather than sitting down for a meal. I find it is best to head out early (19:00) as many start to wind down later in the evening (22:00). Of course lunchtime is good as well. Don't just stick to the old town, the streets are pretty, but the bars in the new town are where some of the best, most creative dishes can be found. This site, Todos Pintxos was given to me by Matthew Grant, it is a good resource and the suggested bar crawls are great.

The Bell is just south of Stratford-upon-Avon in the village of Alderminster. I understand the local Lady of the Manor (The Alscot Estate) recently purchased the pub to keep it open, and is has been refurbished (lots of Farrow and Ball) however it is still OK. Many of the staff are ex the Howard Arms in Ilmington which was once good but has now really gone down hill. The kitchen is good, a nice terrine to start, slightly tough "Venison Wellington", but an excellent Poussin and vegetables. Desserts are a weakness and are firmly aimed at the <10's. The area around (and in) Stratford can be tricky for reasonable food pubs, and IMO this is the best in the area.

He already has. Here is the link - Feran Adria's fast food.

Until recently I had assumed the "bibs" were sub-stars however I now realise the bibs are strictly for restaurants which deliver 3 courses for under £28 so there is no continuity between the two. If you don't make it to starred status that's it. Interestingly the £28 cut off hasn't changed from least '07 (my last book) so it isn't any surprise to see some restaurants dropping out of bib status as their prices rise. At first I thought this was odd, but on reflection I can see the logic. A restaurant is either in or it isn't (or very close with a rising star). If you are charging decent money for food, then the cooking needs to be of a certain standard, of course that assumes the UK Michelin star assessments are accurate....

Is the "General Burgoyne" still going - it used to be really basic (as pubs should be) with a great pie and peas, and a really good Hartleys.

I assume we are discussing "everyday pubs" rather than the gastro superstars like The Star, The Sportsman, The Walnut Tree etc. By coincidence we tried a new pub for Sunday lunch The Pony and Trap, which is just south of Bristol. It was recomended by the chefs at The White Hart in Bath (also a good everyday food pub but best for drinks in the summer when the garden is open and so a better ratio of drinking to dining space). The food at the P&T was good, although it being a Sunday the menu "roast" heavy for the meat selection, the cheese plate was especially good with some Somerset Brie in perfect runny condition with no hint or ammonia. What I really liked is that it is a real pub, serving decent food cooked with care, no sign of a "Farrow & Ball" designer makeover, lots of locals, and lots of muddy wellies left by the door.

Food Snob, I like to read your comments/reviews, however couldn't you post them on the site rather than simply putting in a link. OK you may not want to post 5,000 words on the site, but how about a summary or overview of a few hundred words that gives some insight into your review (we can then link to your site for a fuller review). It would help with the flow of the discussion rather than having to switch between pages. Not sure if I am on my own on this subject but I find I am clicking through to links less and less.

And am I to assume that the late opening/conversion of Marcus Wareing accounts for his absence from the board? ← I think he opened in September, and got two stars, so clearly got in before the cut off.

Congratulations to all who are recognised - great to see the reactions. Nice to see Casamia in Bristol get a star - it has had a few recommendations on the board and I have been meaning to go - I now need to get my act together. Does anyone have any insight into Whatley Manor - its now my "best" local restaurant but Matthew Fort's comments in WOM don't inspire confidence especially with the ALC at £65 and the tasting menu at £80. Also does anyone know what the cut off date is for the guide? I was intrigued that Hibiscus made it last year as a one star after opening in late October (the 25th?) whilst Corrigans is not is this years guide after opening on the 6th November (but with Lindsay House still listed), and Bath Priory retaining its star although Chris Horridges departure was public in late October (Kitchen Rat 20th Oct).

Interesting blog from Tim Hayward in WOM today. He comments on the Michelin and the Michelin prediction game. I liked the following..."Otherwise the kind of people who speculate most ferociously about the stars are an odd bunch - culinary otaku with the money to spend 'collecting' starred restaurants who've extrapolated an ability-to-afford into a notion of connoisseurship. Reading their postings is like listening to that talk radio station that always seems to be playing when I get in a cab, usually on the subject of football or immigration: intense, opinionated debate of events over which the participants can have no possible influence and, to any audience, irritatingly pointless." Is he talking about anyone we know...?

The same thing happened to us at Le Cinq just before Christmas, it contrasted with Martin Wishart just after Christmas when we were limited to four between two of us - not enough to have one of each type. We really enjoyed both restaurants, but went away feeling we got better value at Le Cinq for our £380 compared to Wishart at £180 (both long lunches). Interesting how little things can have such an impact on the experience.

La Fontaine de Mars - Disneyworld meets Paris bistro. Perfect if that is what you want. Far too many English speaking families with whinging kids who don't like most of the menu for my taste. I second most of Johns other comments, my last meal at Le Regalade was disappointing, good food ruined by dire service, service suffering as they tried to turn tables three times in the evening. Itineraires was poor when I went in the summer, however recent reports lead me to believe it is now firing on all cylinders - it would be interesting to hear more up to date opinions.

Interesting predictions from Kitchen Rat. A new one on me was Danesfield House in Marlow - anyone been?

Food1 - like you we recently visited Paris, and came away with similar thoughts. These were then reinforced the next week as we travelled up through England, eating at a few well thought of restaurants. I tend to take a fairly holistic view of a meal, whilst the quality of the food is paramount, my enjoyment of the meal is governed by the service, ambiance etc.. It these don't come together correctly then to me it is a poor meal/experience; I don't mean by this that every meal has to have 3* service, but that these factors need to be appropriate for the meal - perfect beer in a pub, fresh pappadums in my local curry house, or simply tables cleared and cleaned in a cafe when punters leave. To me this is the difference between France and the UK, in France there seems to be an innate ability to bring all the elements together. From the coffee at the random "zinc" which is good, not world class but good enough to drink, to the good humoured/fun service at the grand palaces (we ate at Le Cinq). In contrast, it is nearly impossible to get good coffee in the UK, and a meal at the Yorke Arms in Ramsgill recently had such stiff and reverential service it felt like we were in church - I think I have enjoyed funerals more..! Why the difference? A few thoughts: I heard a psychologist on Radio 4 last week talking about how peoples expectations had changed over time, his research indicated that there was a recent phenomena in English speaking countries in which people all have expectations of being far better than average, and being able to achieve anything (a manifestation of celebrity culture?). I believe that one of his observations was that many people had unrealistic expectations of what they were destined to do. The result is they are unhappy in service roles, as these are seen to be beneath their rightful place in the world. Obviously unhappy/disenchanted staff in service industries, like catering, will influence the consumers experience. Contrast that to the service culture in France and the high self-esteem waiters etc. have. Add to this the wage structure, employment benefits, and employment protection legislation in countries like France and you get a far different employment paradigm. Workers have both higher self esteem and are not treated like a disposable resource. I also find that expectations of food in the UK are very, very low. The great British public have relatively low standards when it comes to food, and a low level of passion. Factory white bread, Starbucks, lager etc. are all good examples. OK France has its own problems with frozen croissants and baguettes in lots of bakeries but people seem more passionate about quality. Couple the low standards with intense self belief in a media driven society and the result is fairly average restaurants being lauded and promoted far beyond their worth. In our disposable culture the drive for the new needs to be fuelled - "Corrigans is so last year isn't there anything new?". It is more important be seen to be at the new fashionable place rather than looking for quality. There are clearly good UK restaurants, but far too few of them, and there are some pretty poor French ones. I am not certain the "no choice" restaurants are that common in France. Spring is a great restaurant (we ate there before Christmas) but it is still very much the exception. From my experience nearly all French restaurants will have quite a lot of choice with both ALC and set menu's. I agree that British restaurants quite often mistakenly focus on the frills rather than the basics of service, quality of ingredients and decent cooking. I don't mind foams and pre-desserts, but I do worry when they get in the way of the basics. Maybe the crunch will adjust Generation X & Y attitudes, however I suspect it will take a long time for our food culture to really shift. The best meal on our trip through the UK was Martin Wishart in Edinburgh....and nearly all of the FOH staff were French.

i think andy is quite a harsh rater of places, we were part of a group lunch at the sportsman recently and his overall score seemed harsh considering how much he seemed to like it at the time (to be fair he does cover this in his review) ← Is that because of his scoring system? Re-reading the Sportsman review it seems very positive and I always thought a 6/10 from Andy was very high praise.

Your are the third one on this thread to comment on a less than impressive experience at Hibiscus...a pattern?