Wilfrid

Thanks for giving me a corned beef craving, guys. Just what I was looking for. Jin, did you really not grow up on the stuff? Corned beef, canned red salmon, sardines, cheese & pickle. Along with ham, they were pretty regular sandwich fillings in my youth.

It's interesting that there haven't been any demotions - if my assumptions correct. Obviously it can happen with Michelin, so I assumed it was a possibility with the NYT too. What about Lutece, for example. The Solltner days were before my time, but did it never have more than two stars? Maybe it was never a four.

Unless there's been a recent change, you'll find Topo Gigo on Brewer Street, not Old Compton Street. Good luck on chasing down the Dan Davin book, Gavin. The London Library's copy has been elusive recently. Lovely chapter on McClaren-Ross called "Goodnight, Julian, everywhere" - a play on the phrase with which BBC radio once closed it's children's programming every evening, "Goodnight, children, everywhere". I used to know which premises on Old Compton Street used to be the 2 I's, but my memory is fallible. I think it's where Cafe Espana is - if it still calls itself that.

Now I hear you. I did check to see if any of the old four star ratings pre-dated a chef change, but no. I can see Tommy's point that a yearly review would be too much; on the other hand, I still think a five year gap is pushing the limit. I wonder if having one or two anonymous "inspectors" periodically re-visiting these places would make sense, given the value placed on the NYT rating? Or should we assume that if a restaurant does slip severely, Grimes has plenty of ways of finding out?

I assume not. One would hope that it would be a possibility. I guess you're saying that it's implausible a four star restaurant would ever fall so far it couldn't raise it's game for a Grimes.

Petitio principii. It simply begs the question of whether Lespinasse is capable of serving a four star meal. If your contention was correct, no restaurant would ever lose four stars, because the NYT critic would never be the recipient of a less than four star meal. A ridiculous contention, indeed. In fact, it's obvious that what was once a fourt star restaurant can cease to be one. Is that the case with Lespinasse? I'd be intersted in people's opinions; not necessarily on this thread. Since Lespinasse intends to be a four star restaurant, it will serve a four star meal if everything "goes right". The denial of which would be, as I said, a formal contradiction.

Obviously it would be "ridiculous" to contend that Lespinasse cannot serve a four star meal when everything goes right; in fact, it would be a formal logical contradiction. Give me credit for some intelligence. My pithy post was a reminder that the question was raised on eGullet about whether everything can "go right" at a restaurant capable of the food and service which Nick, Nockerl and I, and some other very aware people experienced. I even PM'ed you directly to ask your view. No-one as I recall showed up to say that our meal was out of the ordinary and that they had recently enjoyed a four star experience at the joint. If you want to contend that the eGullet membership is ill-informed, unrepresentative or unresponsive on such matters, go ahead. It's not my view.

Lespinasse.

Just to be clear what we're talking about. The canned corn beef is not the same thing as what Americans mean by corned beef. It is a preserved beef product, but it is extremely soft - spreadable in fact - with a fibrous texture, and very heavily marbled with soft white fat. You certainly can't cook it in water, let alone for five hours - it would liquidize. The hash options described above are traditional uses, and indeed the hash can be folded into an omelette (or, less traditionally, something like a taco). It's worth spiking up a little - with a tomato sauce, or with chopped peppers or pickles; something to cut the fat. Let me also suggest the most common use for it where I come from. Slice it carefully (best done when cold) and layer it between slices of good, crusty white bread. Add sliced cucumber, lettuce or tomato to taste. Then just a little of one of the traditional English sandwich pickles (either brown pickles, such as Branston's or a mustard-colored piccallilli). It's really a very good sandwich meat. Before you scoff, I would argue the texture and flavor are akin to ox tongue. If you don't like tongue, I have nothing more to say to you.

John, after soaking beans, I usually want to pick them over briefly to get rid of any grit, discarded skins or other garbage. This involves draining them, so they get cooked in fresh water or stock or whatever. As for stirring, it depends what dish you’re making and how you're cooking them. As a generalization, if I do stir a bean dish while it's cooking, it's usually to move other ingredients around; I'm not sure it does much for the beans. But again, I don't know if you're making soup, baked beans, cassoulet or something else.

Is pastrami ever seen without the spice rub? I wonder why not.

March. I was about to apologize, because it does show up among the three-stars on the list page. But I looked again at the review, and I still can't see the stars there (down at the bottom where they should be). Am I wrong? It's all a bit of a mess.

From recollection, there is a high statistical association between smoking and drinking alcohol - in other words, if you do one of those things, you are more likely to do the other than someone who does not. I am not sure how strongly the relationship holds between amount smoked and amount drunk, but I shouldn't be surprised if there is such a relationship. Sorry, no cites.

8700 posts. Enough about me?

Worse than I thought. The Reichl ratings of Lespinasse, Le Bernardin and Jean-Georges date from December, November and April 1998 respectively. So if you want to know how Jean-Georges was performing five years ago...

Yes, quite happily, thanks for caring. As, I'm sure, is the thread about kittens.

I'll give you my tete de peloton, if that suits: Alain Ducasse Atelier Jean-Georges Daniel Le Bernardin (I've not yet eaten at Bouley or Nobu, which might be contenders.) Uncontroversial, I'd have thought. Of course, one day Robert Brown will tell us what's wrong with Atelier. :checks calendar:

In an idle moment, I did manage to identify the three star restaurants. Another wrinkle - went looking for March. No rating. Are there many high profile restaurants out there without star ratings? Edit: I did at last find the page which lists the restaurants by star ratings. Of course, the link to the page gives no indication of that.

Stone, it took me five or six years to work that out. Where were you when I needed you?

Is that possibly attributable to publication bias? In other words, is it just much less likely that a 0/1 star restaurant will - even if visited - be the subject of a published review? I am sure this affects monthly periodicals - since Gourmet, for example, reviews so few restaurants there would hardly be much point picking places to slam. Maybe it has some effect at the Times too.

Bingo. Bert Jansch, eh? I saw him in a bar above either the Wheatsheaf or the pub a little further south on Rathbone Place - the Black Horse? - about eight years ago. He was singing a song to an absolutely hushed room about how the English had stolen all the trees from Ireland to build their wooden navy. Nifty guitarist though. Last time I stuck my head in the Tatty Bogle (last year) it had been taken over by thumping disco club nights. Sadly.

Tatty Bogle's not on Kingly Street. It's down a narrow, covered passage parallel with Carnaby Street, and hidden in a deep, unventilated cellar. Maybe we're talking about some different places here. Another point if anyone knows what the name means.

This is just a snapshot rather than a report, as I ate there recently for reasons other than enjoying the food. I didn't sample much, but what I ate was good enough to make me want to go back and explore further. In particular, a plate of pork sourced from Ted Blew's High Hope Hogs, which was richly flavored and simply but expertly prepared. Slices of roast loin, a tender slab of "fresh bacon" or belly, some sausage, a rib; garnished with restraint. This really jumped off the plate at me, and made me think that the recent good press and word of mouth Bill Telepan has had may be thoroughly deserved. Anyone had more detailed experiences there recently? (Horrible high-ceilinged noisy space, of course.)

There are two things going on in most of these rating systems. One thing they do is rank restaurants; the other thing they do is award scores - stars, in the case of the New York Times. I agree with Fat Bloke that scoring makes little sense outside the context of a homogenous cuisine. One advantage Zagat has over the Times (unless there's some part of the Times web-site I'm missing), is that it does break the dining scene of any particular city down into ranked sub-groups; you can review, for example, a ranked list of French bistros or of steak houses. I would contend that such a ranking does have some utility. If I'm in an unknown city, and Zagat is my only resource, I have some confidence that the relative ranking between very highly rated and very low rated restaurants will be reflected in my dining experience. Fine distinctions may be debatable, but I don't think even Zagat gets the ranking upside down. What I don't find useful are the numeric scores. First for the reason Shaw gave; comparing the numeric score of the famous Soup Kitchen with the numeric score of an upscale French restaurant is meaningless to me. Second, in the case of Zagat, because the numeric scores are not georgraphically commensurable. 28 for cuisine in Indianapolis is not commensurable with 28 for cuisine in New York (although a restaurant with that score might indeed be the best restaurant in Indianapolis). Yes this is relevant, as I neatly bring it back to the Times. While I find utility in the Zagat rankings, the New York Times rankings are largely useless because so constricted. Sure, the six four-stars stand out as restaurants likely to provide a good experience. But in the four other possible categories, the restaurants are so numerous that one can't make any meaningful distinctions. There are around forty three-stars, one hundred and forty two-stars, and so on. And you can bet the best two-stars are not so different from the worst three-stars. The Zagat 0 (in principle, I suppose) to 30 scales are much more help to the reader.

I like her.