Anna Friedman Herlihy

Hi there, Re: boiling and refreezing stock. I'm just a home chef too, but regularly keep stock for more than a month in the fridge following the guidelines in many basic cookbooks (Julia Child French Chef, Bittman How to Cook Everything, among others). Usually you boil it every 3 to 5 days, and it's supposed to keep indefinitely. To be completely honest, I've left it for over a week and then boiled, and I've never gotten sick. Eventually I usually freeze what's still kicking around (in ice cube trays also). So, assuming you froze the stock soon (within a couple days) after making it (and chilled it fairly quickly), I would just let it defrost, boil, cool properly, and then just refreeze. I doubt you'd suffer much degradation of flavor, as I've never noticed this with my refrigerator regularly boiled stocks (although freezing does dehydrate a bit, so maybe it would reduce somewhat--and boiling reduces too). The 40 degree benchmark is indeed for food safety (actually I think it's supposed to be 36 degrees or something like that). There are some good posts on the subject in egullet if you search on broths or stocks (including one of mine that talks about stock I left without boiling for a really long time but still tasted and smelled fine, so I boiled and froze it, and still haven't had any problems with it). The deal with bacteria, apparently (and I'm no molecular biologist), is that they release toxins over time but the lower the temp, the less toxins (or no toxins)--if you keep things cold enough they can't produce the toxins. Hope that helps. We had our whole fridge and freezer die last summer. Luckily we have an upright freezer in the basement and a dorm fridge (overflow for parties) and keg fridge for backup plus several cooler, so all was alright in the world (not much defrosted before I caught it). But I tell you, it's a real pain in the butt. Took the fridge guy over a week to come out and fix it, even though it was under warranty! However, we just finished up some mustard and relish that was relegated to one of the coolers during the holding period to no ill effects (granted they're good coolers that really hold cold temps for long term.) BTW--I'm in Chicago too. Hope you're enjoying this really excellent weather!

Hi there, If it were me, I'd let the stocks defrost, and just boil, chill, and then refreeze. Since you can do this to stock when it's in the fridge every three days or so to keep the stock for supposedly forever, I'm sure it would be fine to do with stuff that was frozen (as long as it defrosted under 40 degrees). As for the rest, how about throwing an impromptu "Iron Chef" type party, where your friends have to come up with things to cook with the ingredients of the day (and cook for you, since it's your birthday!). Also, the bacon and pancetta should last for at least 3 weeks once defrosted (unless you waited 3 weeks to freeze them in the first place). What about using the puff pastry as some sort of base for a grilled dessert? With grilled peaches, pineapple, etc. and some sort of custard? Maybe even try grilling the pastry on the grill a la Raichlen's grilled pizzas? If you don't mind standing over a frying pan of oil, the corn would be good for corn fritters (a nice alternative for corn on the cob for the 4th). And marinate the artichoke hearts and chop and add to your potato salad! Actually, add some of the bacon or pancetta into the salad too (or make German-style potato salad with a bacon grease dressing--my great Aunt Helen made a killer one).

Thanks for the photo instructions, trying them now. Hope it works. So it's definitely trapped blood (I fried up a sample to taste it, and the larger spotted parts have a definite liverish taste). The areas with tiny spots taste okay, and, of course, the non-spotted parts taste fine (very good, in fact). So I guess I'm going to be tossing some parts (such a waste!), or (assuming the meat is safe to eat) seeing if I can incorporate the livery taste into sausage (but I'm the only one in the house that likes livery-tasting things). Some parts did not get spotted, as far as I can tell, e.g. with one of the hams, it's just one of the muscles--the others seem clear, the belly seems fine, the fat was beautiful, some of the loin cuts are clear, etc. But what I really want to know now is, did the slaughterhouse really screw up with bleeding the carcass (there were some "normal" areas of bloodshot meat near the major arteries). Did they miss cutting a major artery or vein? Or is this due to something else (let's hope the blood speckles are not due to some disease, since I ate a sample)? I'm, of course, going to call the farmers tomorrow, but would really like to be informed as to the cause of my spotted pork. And, of course, some input on my earlier questions re: Safe to use in sausage, for dry curing, etc.? Small amounts okay? Or do I have to cut out every last bit of blood? Will brining get the blood out? OK, photos (let's hope this works): http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/11832273...4817_247653.jpg http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/11832273...4817_394074.jpg http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/11832273...4817_704663.jpg http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/11832273..._4817_93344.jpg http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/11832273...4817_284092.jpg

Hi all, If any of you have butchering experience, please look at my post at: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=104419&hl= I just got my Berkshire pig from the slaughterhouse, and I have some questions about what I think is a type of bloodshot meat, but one that I have not seen before (parts are speckled with little pockets of red--appears to be coagulated blood). Before I contact the farmers/slaughterhouse, I'd just like to be sure that I'm identifying this properly, and also if it will be a problem. Thanks much! Anna

Thanks for the reply post. I think I've determined the spots are some sort of small-scale bloodshot phenomenon, rather than the larger areas that I've seen in the past. I'm adding pics, in case anyone who has more experience can weigh in (two of the spots--one on a loin chop, the other on a trimming of butt/shoulder, and then a third of an obviously bloodshot section of butt). So far, I've encountered this in the sirloin part of the loin (the rest of the loin seemed okay, but I left it as roasts, not chops), the butt part of the shoulder (haven't cut up the picnic part yet), and a bit on the surface of the "skirt steak" part of the belly (the flap that hangs off of the spareribs). I can call both the farmers and the slaughterhouse, but I'd like to have a confirmation first about these spots being unacceptable and the cause of the problem the carcass being insufficiently bled (if in fact that is the problem), before contacting them. So my real question is: are these little pockets of blood okay to leave in? Will they affect the taste like a larger area of bloodshot meat would? Is it okay, for example to grind the spots into sausage that will then be dry cured? Or if the hams have the same problem, will this be an issue (and I won't know until after they're cured, smoked, and dried)? I'm guessing if I brine the chops the blood will dissipate (like when you soak marrow bones). But I don't want to have to brine everything, nor would that be appropriate for all the cuts. I guess I don't have the ability to post images (not seeing any "attach file" option), unless I'm missing something. If anyone knows how I can do this, that would be great. I did take some pics today. Thanks for any info! Like I said, butchering's a new hobby, and usually a google search answers my questions, but not this one.

Hello, Any butchers out there tonight? I finally got my organically-raised Berkshire pig today, and I've started cutting it up (so far just into primals for the most part). I started cutting part of the loin into chops, and I noticed they are spotted with red flecks. This doesn't seem normal to me, so I searched the internet, but couldn't find anything. It looks different than when you get a section of carcass that's been improperly bled and is bloodshot (I've had plenty of experience with that)--this is more like small spots rather than large sections of coagulated blood. The outside of part of the belly had spots too. Anyone know if this is a problem? I'd hate to butcher the entire thing (290 lbs. live weight) to find out it's not going to taste right (or worse, have some sort of health issue). If a photo would help, let me know and I can take one (although trying to get as much of this butchering done tonight as possible, so hoping someone knows what I'm talking about via the text description). Thanks for you help from an amateur butcher! (Done several deer, a lamb, half a cow, several cooked pigs, but this is my first raw pig.) Kind regards, Anna

I've successfully stuffed and fried zucchini flowers up to 5 days after they've been picked. However, they were picked in my garden and immediately refrigerated, so I'd imagine the ones you bought would not last that long. In fact I have 4 sitting in my fridge right now (3 from yesterday's garden check and one from today). One of my fave recipes with zuc flowers is to toss them with pasta and a bit of olive oil, black pepper, and pecorino (this is a fairly standard Italian recipe that I've had in restaurants in Italy). You could incorporate your peas into this too. The heat from returning the pasta to the pot with a bit of the cooking water and oil is enough to cook the flowers. The peas I'd blanch for a minute or so. BTW--I've never had a problem with the cheese leaking out. If it starts to leak, it forms a hard crust (just like any fried cheese), and that keeps the rest in the blossom.

The rub was much the same as the marinade (I like to do the two, because I think they both have different effects on the meat): kosher salt, pepper, paprika, garlic and onion salt, dry mustard, brown sugar, and a bit of cinnamon to keep with the apple theme. We didn't brine it, per se (i.e. fully submerged in a vessel, since we didn't have a big enough vessel at the time)--that's why we injected it and put the dry rub on at the same time. So it marinated/brined from the inside for approx 20 hours or so before going into the smoker. For the bigger one we're doing this 4th of July, now that I have a proper vessel/cooler, I will probably properly brine it for at least 2 days, but I will also still inject the meaty parts. Then dry it off and put the dry rub on a few hours before cooking. Enjoy! Nothing like a whole grilled animal (both for effect and for the taste the bones impart). Anna

Oh btw, re: giant coolers (someone above mentioned they couldn't find one). Costco has these dinosaurs from Igloo (165 quarts--approx 5 feet x 2.5 feet, although my husband says I'm terrible at ballparking measurements) for, I think $70. I fit half a Dexter cow cut up into primals (2/3 the size of a regular cow) and eight chickens into one, and am planning on fitting a whole regular-sized pig (minus head) into it for the 4th of July (although I think the head might fit too). Needless to say, I think I could easily fit myself into it (at 5 foot 7) without having to scrunch much. Anna

Hi there, We did a slightly larger than sucking pig a couple years ago (35 pounds trimmed weight--head on). Picked it up the day before. Made a giant vat of marinade with broth, vinegar, calvados, onions, various spices (can't quite remember exactly what but definitely cinnamon, mustard, spicy peppers, paprika, garlic). Used our injector to inject all the meatier parts, then coated the whole thing inside and out with a dry rub. At the time we didn't have a big enough cooler for it (we do now) or room in the fridge, so we put it in a double contractor's bag (those giant black super thick garbage bags), and then put it in the basement on top of a couple bags of ice with a couple more on top of the pig. Next day we speared it with the rotisserie bar, stuffed some apples and onions in the cavity, wired it up, and put it on the smoker (our CharGriller). It was a bit much for the rotisserie motor, so we ended up having to hand turn it until some of the liquid rendered out. Mopped it with a fairly standard smoking mop once an hour (although with Calvados added to keep with the apple theme), and voila! We put an apple in its mouth as per traditional and then added sunglasses as another decorative touch because it was a summer bbq. I can't tell you how fast the thing was devoured. I would add a pic, if I could figure out how to do it. Hope our experience helps! Anna

Hello again, One more thing--what do folks use to sterilize the insides of their curing boxes/fridges/environments? I'm a bit worried about using bleach because of the smell getting into the final product. Anna

Hi all, Hope this question hasn't been asked before (just did a search, but didn't find anything). What are the guidelines on making dry-cured products from frozen meat? Does the size matter? Can I, for example, do a whole dry-cured ham from a frozen piece? I'm worried about the long thawing time at proper temp. I've read some recommendations for the initial curing phase of a whole ham to keep it at 36-40 degrees. If so, would I even need to thaw it first, or could I just coat it in a salt or salt/sugar mix and thaw at the same time? I did read that some folks had made duck prosciutto from frozen breasts, and I've made cold-smoked, hot-smoked, and fresh sausages from previously frozen meat with no problems (and then re-froze them). Is it okay to make dry-cured sausage from frozen meat? I ask because my farmers from whom I've been getting whole and half animals (beef and lamb so far) may not be able to get me a fresh pig because of timing (it would have to be frozen). Thanks for any info. Anna

Hi all, Very happy about this thread! I just bought a used wine fridge for the purpose of converting it to a curing box (gotta love Craig's List). It's a Haier dorm-size model with precision temp control (55 degrees is no problem) and a switch for the light on the outside (so I can check in on my creations without opening the door and disturbing the environment). I'm not planning on doing more charcuterie than my husband and I and dinner guests can eat, so I think the size will work out (or I'll just add another). We do actually have a fairly decent (temp-wise) environment in the basement (around 60-65 degrees) which works out pretty good for our wine, but due to our dogs, cat, occasional mice, creepy-crawlies, and the like (it's a 130-plus-year-old house), I'm not comfortable just hanging the meat out in the open. As far as regulating the humidity, I was thinking of using a combo of silica gel and those humidor thingys that you soak in water and use for cigars, wooden musical instruments, etc. I'm guessing however that the issue is more going to be controlling excess humidity rather than needing to add moisture. I believe you can get silica gel (or other dessicants) pegged for a particular humidity range, but I haven't completely looked into this yet. Anyone experimented with silica gel or other similar products to control humidity? Thanks! Anna

Couple things: As for the question about the leftover scraps: Our dogs love, love, love the meat scraps from stock bones mushed up with the spent carrots! If I start making stock when they're out of the room, as soon as it comes to a simmer and creates aroma, they are both in the kitchen begging. They love the stuff so much, I actually take the time to hand pull any remaining meat from the bones for them. With them both at my feet, drooling. I keep the stuff in a tupperware in the fridge and one pot's worth usually lasts for a couple days as a treat added to their food. I always use a tiny bit of salt, just because I like to taste the broth for flavor halfway through to see if I need more carrots, parsnips, onions, etc. or if I should reduce to concentrate a weak flavor. I find I can't judge the taste right without at least a bit of salt (plus then when I reduce it, it's usually perfectly salty, if not a bit shy of that). And if you're new at this, no one has mentioned the great tactic of freezing the stock in ice cube trays for smaller portions for pan sauces and the like. I also vacuum seal the stock once it's frozen to prevent any freezer burn.

I love, love, love the "Spice Rub for Pork and Beef" (or is it beef and pork) from the Complete Meat Cookbook by Aidells and someone else. No sauce necessary when the meat's done!

Just joined eGullet (mostly because of this fabulous and informative Charcuterie forum--one of my fave cookbooks), and I have a question about rendered duck fat. The cookbook has some seemingly conflicting info (at least for me). On p. 258 it says you can keep confited duck legs for 6 months in the fridge, and then re-use the fat, but on p. 257 it says keep the duck fat in the freezer up to 6 months. So what I'm wondering is--how long can one keep non-confited rendered duck fat in the fridge? I rendered some a couple months ago, and never transferred it to the freezer (thinking of the 6 months in fridge as a confit info), but now I'm wondering if it's okay. It looks okay and smells fine. Our fridge is kept at an even 35 degrees fahrenheit. Thanks much! Anna