schaem

The "you" can be the you you want it to be. yoo hoo. And sorry my flawed spelling has impinged my argument. And obviously I didn't mean "you" Cabrales or "you" Steve P. because no one could possibly have eaten out more than "you". My point was that a lot of chefs who lack good technique hide behind innovation. I don't know if a meal at ADNY is perfect, I do know that time spent in the kitchen can be valuable to a young cook do to the experience and talent of many of the cooks there, the quality of product, etc. I've seen diners blown away by innovative chefs who couldn't hold more conservative chefs apron springs. I'm not saying "you" are those diners, and I'm not saying that "your" favorites are those chefs. I'm saying that a lot of young cooks and a lot of "foodies" are more impressed by "crazy" menu ideas than by solid technique.

I didn't mean to imply that innovation was easier to copy...successfully. What I meant was that "mind-blowing" food is valued over "perfect" food than some kid just out of the CIA is going to make "Sichuan peppercorn studded veal brains with Sauterne foam, passion fruit coulis and a cabbage sorbet...." and get famous. Meanwhile some poor schlub is contacting farmers who really care about their products and spending 20 years learning how to maximize the flavor of these products to create wonderful tasting food is going to get ignored. And if you don't believe than you should eat out in New York more often. (sorry, I know this a France thread) I don't think that Passard is one of these people, I just think that there is a place for conservatism and perfection in fine dining. And I especially think young cooks should respect tradition, discipline, hard work, and perfection before wanting to become the next Ferran Adria. Again, I'm coming at this from a cooks perspective. If I go to Paris I'd rather eat at L'Arpege than Taillevaint (sic?), but that doesn't mean that Passard is "right" and the old guard "wrong". And since I live in NY and not Paris, ADNY is the closest thing I have to "old guard" French tradition. I stagiared in that kitchen and it was a vital experience to me. New York is a better place because of ADNY and that's a good enough argument for me.

As a cook I think it is possible to admire both Ducasse and Passard as great practitioners of their art (though on a cook's salary most of the admiration is done from afar). What I, and other people in "the back" admire about Ducasse is the dedication to perfection, the excellence of technique, and,yes, the codification of modern cuisine in his prolific writing. What we admire about Passard (or Gagnaire, a place I've actually eaten at) is the style, the wonder, the astonishment at their bold vision of food. (Though I think you're as likely to be appalled by a dish at PG as blown away, not the case at ADNY I suspect.) If one sees it as two "schools", perfection and a certain conservatism on one hand, daring and innovation on the other, then the question becomes who has more influence. American cooks in particular can be easily seduced by the idea of innovaton over everything; it is much easier to "copy" Rothko than Rembrandt. Rothko (Passard, Gagnaire) are certainly schooled in ther art and are true masters, but those who seek to follow them may not be. On the other hand if a young cook seeks to emulate Ducasse's dedication to perfection and truly discipline themselves they may, eventually, become true artists capable of expressing themselves with a complete array of tools. I am not dismissing the "school" of Passard (L'Arpege tops my list of restaurants to try in Paris) because cuisine must always have innovation, but to dismiss Ducasse as "merely" striving for perfection is dangerous. There are so many young cooks and chefs in NY (trust me) who aspire to innovation, that I fear any dedication to perfection, discipline, and technique may be lost. Maybe this is incidental to the conversation, but as someone who spends more time in kitchens than dining rooms, it is important.

[Cheese, ice cream. sorbet, bread, and whatever else is made by the trained, skillful use of hands to put together an assemblage of ingredients are artisinal.] Absolutely. The problem I've been having with Steve p.'s arguement is the assumption that Daniel, Arpege, etc. use "artisinal" products in their dishes. They don't. They use meats and fishes and produce whose only artisan is "god"or nature. Good soil and climate and seeds create good products. Cold water fish, caught wild, tend to be better than farmed. The people who bring these products to the restaurants are not "artisans" they are purveyors - middlemen. Daniel might pay more to get the very limited supply of dayboat Atlantic halibut, or Piedmont truffles, but there are no artisans involved. The artisans in the food industry [are] the cooks, bakers, etc. The only products these high end restaurants use regularly that would be considered artisan are the oils and vinegars.

I didn't do this, but... Assume the liquid boiling on the stove was blanching water and use it to cook gnocchi, then hear the pastry cook ask, "What happened to my simple syrup?"

Larousse Gastronomique. Try updating it's recipes as a sort of mental exercise. ooooh.

I think my feelings on the issue are best illustrated by an anecdote: We had a party booked one night and the menu the hostess had selcted was appetizer: Tuna Tartare entree: choice of Steak or Halibut. She called the morning of the party and asked is the Tuna Tartare could be cooked, please. The party co-ordinator asked me and I said, "No, perhaps you should sell her something else." She did, and when the party sat I told the meat cook to cook all of the steaks medium and the fish cook to cook all of the fish through. I considered the Halibut to be overcooked and "incorrect", but probably what the party wanted. I also considered the cooking of the Tartare to be wrong and impossible, so the hostess had to compromise with me. Yes, my job is to give the customer what they want (compromise on the Halibut) but it is also my job to educate the customer in some way (people who dine in restaurants should know that Tartare cannot be cooked).

The nighttime Gyro cart on 6th Ave & (I believe) 53rd, it's the crowded one. Great NY Noodle Town Otafuku on 9th St Pho Cong Ly on Hester And of course this is an entirely seperate thread: The dearly departed house special sandwhich at Latticini Barese on Union St. in Brooklyn