paulraphael

Here's a method I calculated for a rare to medium-rare gradient: (use only on steaks 1.5” to 2” thick) -cook through to 52°C/126°F in a 53°C Water Bath. 1.5” thick: 1 hour 50 minutes 2” thick: 3 hours 15 minutes -remove from circulator. Adjust water bath to to 57°C / 135°F. Put meat in when stabilized. For 1cm gradient: 10 minutes. For 0.75cm gradient: 6min It sounds like you're looking for something more like medium-rare to medium, which would look just like this but with water baths a couple of degrees higher. You could also work out a much faster method with a longer gradient by plopping the bags in a much hotter bath and pulling out at just the right time. This is basically just conventional cooking in a humid environment ... BUT you have total control and consistency.

That's not really a difficulty; it's just a result that you want. you can get a medium-rare to medium gradient with sous-vide, and then get the result consistently and perfectly. It just takes some calculation to figure out your method. You can do it in one cooking stage or two. The only real complication is that precise timing becomes a factor again. But since you have control over the temperature, you can just use a timer. No need for instant temperature readings or guesswork.

I'd be intrigued by a proposition that there's a "sous-vide" texture—rather than a texture that happens to come from the most popular ways SV gets used. How does cooking meat in a 100% humid environment give a certain texture, regardless of time or temperature?

I think if you learn to control the process, you can get any texture you want from sous-vide. Whether or not it's the best possible way to get a given texture is a different question.

Have you tried calling companies that supply it to manufacturers? They typically only sell in bulk, but they're generous with samples. And sample size is often 500g ... huge. I've done most of my experimenting with samples from TIC gums and CP Kelco. The only trouble is that if I do run out some day, it may be impractical to actually buy the stuff.

Strange that it's not available. I don't understand him saying lambda is "low quality," unless he means he doesn't have a high quality source. It's just a slightly different carrageenan molecule, and it does have somewhat different characteristics. Lambda solutions are clear vs. cloudy, they hydrate cold vs. >70C, and they don't form gels (kappa forms brittle gels). Heston and Ferran have to get it from somewhere!

Also, some people use fluid gels for this kind of application. I haven't tried because I don't like the workflow, but you may find them worth playing with.

I've been experimenting with this a lot, and hoping to have enough information for a blog post on it soon. For a demiglace equivalent, which will presumably have a healthy concentration of natural gelatin already, I'm using 0.2% lambda carrageenan 0.1% xanthan gum These both hydrate cold, with shear from any blender. It's important that you don't thicken until you've thoroughly defatted. Both these hydrocolloids are powerful emulsion stabilizers, and you will get a cloudy, oily emulsion that will never separate if you don't defat first. Also important that you don't use this in a sauce that contains dairy. Calcium ions with cause it to form a gel. I'm also experimenting with: 1:1 guar : LBG 3:1 lambda carrageenan : xanthan propylene glycol alginate For adjusting thickness of final sauces, the most popular choices are modified starches that are pre-hydrated, like ultrasperse and ultratex. These dissolve easily and don't need cooking to hydrate. I prefer the clarity and texture of a starch / gum blend, typically 1:10 xanthan : arrowroot If you mix them together thoroughly as powders, you'll be able to make a slurry without the xanthan turning to clumps. This can be whisked into a sauce, and only needs to be simmered briefly to hydrate the arrowroot. This starch / gum blend has the advantage over the previous gum blend that it doesn't need blending, so you can adjust by feel right on the stovetop.

The longer you cook, the more juices will be pushed out of the meat. It's just one of those factors you have to take into account. You might want to try cooking for a shorter time. I do thighs for just a couple of hours and like them fine ... probably less tender this way, but juicier. Agree on avoiding pre-salting. Especially with a long cook, which risks the meat curing. It will also put salt into those bag juices, which makes reducing for use in a sauce problematic.

Interesting! I didn't know you could liberate collagen from hard bone. Does this suggest mean that bones of any type will eventually break down in a pressure cooker? What's left from that matrix if you render all the collagen? P.S. when I see $1.99/lb at whole foods, I worry that those are the neck bones of employees who asked for time off.

I very much like SV for tender cuts. I think these cuts have to be cooked with precision, to avoid over softening and drying out, but I like the perfection of the cook, and the lack of overcooked meat around the edges. It's also the only way I have of serving a lot of people simultaneously. Takes all the guesswork and panic out of the equation. I agree with gfweb that a higher temperature will help. I used to think of myself as a rare meat guy, but SV experiments have shown me that I like medium rare beef much more. Part of this is that when you conventionally cook a steak to rare (say 127) only the center will be cooked that low. Everything out to the edge will be progressively more done. The part of that steak you like the most is probably in the 130s. I generally set my circulator to 55C / 131F, in order to cook the meat to 54C / 129F. A few degrees higher is still plenty pink. Yes to what everyone else said about searing. Your last two steaks had trouble because the first two cooled the pan. Cleaning the pan and taking more time to reheat would fix this. A big fat griddle also works great.

Also worth considering that grain, by definition, is from grass. We're making a distinction between the seeds and the leaves, but cattle living in the wild would be eating a certain amount of both. There is some truth that cattle have health problems when they eat too much of the wrong types of grains. This happens, but is universally considered bad farming practice. Good farmers can raise very healthy cattle, whether they're finished on greens, silage, dried grass, grain, or on combinations. The best beef I've had has been finished on a combination of green grass and grains.

I use a combination of methods like the ones mentioned here, depending on how refined a sauce I'm going for and how much time I want to spend. The simplest / most rustic is just to deglaze the searing pan with the bag juices, and reduce all the way, until the goopy proteins dehydrate and turn a dark mahogany color. Then just deglaze with wine or stock (or even water), season however you like, and strain. The disadvantage to this method is you'll lose all the lighter aromatic flavors from the juices while you amplify the savory and roasted flavors.

Sorry, I haven't re-read that thread in a long time. The other stovetop methods mentioned in the thread are less dependent on a hugely thick piece of meat (but I find that at least 1.25" is helpful). I'm still curious about your SV results. They're not typical.

What are the advantages of SV over a pressure cooker for this kind of intense maillard effect?

The stovetop-to-oven method works well, but can take a while to dial in (you can't see what's going on in an oven). I believe this method evolved to make best use of the limited burner space at restaurants. If you don't face those recommendations, there are ways to get results that are at least as good on the stove. Heston's method should work well. So does the Ducasse method (at the beginning of the thread I linked above). Easiest of all is to start in a blazing pan with high heat oil and sear both sides. Then pour off the oil, and turn the heat very low. Add butter. Flip the steak every minute or two, and keep basting it with the browning butter. The temperature gradient won't be as minute as with a sous-vide steak, but it should be pretty unintrusive.

T-bone is still a tender cut ... part strip and part fillet. It likewise doesn't need to be tenderized with long cooking times. I suspect you'd be happier if the cook times were under 4 hours.

And the punchline ... I got a WS gift certificate for Xmas. Anyone want to buy it at a discount? It's got $85 value on it. Yours for $65.

Has anyone done this kind of before / after weighing with a traditional braise? I have trouble believing you'd actually lose more moisture with SV than with a dutch oven. The differences should lie primarily in temperature control.

Even if it did, the price you'd pay in the texture of the meat wouldn't be worth it. Tender meat shouldn't be cooked longer than necessary. A half hour extra won't do any harm, but if you start adding hours, you'll get a texture that's both mushy and dry.

I use ziplocs and routinely keep stuff 2 weeks. I haven't encountered evidence that ziplocs are less safe for cook / store than vacuum bags, although they're not as good at preventing spoilage (ziploc bags are more oxygen-permeable, but they don't let pathogens sneak in). I kept some chicken once for 3 weeks and it spoiled. Which is to say, it smelled nasty when I opened the bag and we threw it out. Spoilage bacteria are much less well studied than pathogens. You're much more likely to have spoilage surprises with SV than pathogen surprises. It's a good idea to keep your fridge as close to 32F/0C as you can without stuff freezing. Most fridges have a pretty big gradient from the coldest to the warmest spots. It's helpful to figure these out and store your SVd food where it's really cold.