Hawthorne

You are absolutely right but its an indictment of the scientific education of the American public that junk and pseudo science have frightened off people from a perfectly rational solution to this problem. ← Silly me. I think they ought to demand much higher standards of agribiz and the packers. Irradiation is just a high tech patch which will allow the quality of food to keep dropping. And the easiest way to avoid the risks on an individual level is to buy local and organic. And yes, I know that organic is expensive, and that we all don't have access to local sources, but that is what we need. Instead of agreeing that irradiation is a good idea, we should be demanding more supply options. Better quality. Lower prices. Support for family farms.

My fries aren't up to scratch, either. I've made notes here :-) What kind of oil you you recommend?

How interesting you should say this. Since cheap veg oils have been taken over by soy, I have to be obsessively careful about buying oil, because soy smells and tastes, to me, of rotting fish. I can't even eat pork fed on soy meal. We bought a locker pig, and I was anticipating it with considerable anxiety, and then couldn't eat any of it. Even the ham and bacon. When I first discovered this, I assumed that my oil had spoiled, but it turns out that all soybean fat/oil products taste the same to me, even up to soy fed meat. Even heavily seasoned, say as sausage, this off flavour comes through. I use a lot of canola, which I find to be neutral taste wise (though it adds nothing), but also ghee, peanut, olive and on occasion even grapeseed oil, also taste neutral but spendier. And, of course, beef fat, bacon grease, leaf lard and other non PC options :-) I particularly like ghee, when I've remembered to make it ...

Um ... it IS dead fish floating in the soup ..? lol!

Uh ... looks to me like something I make called 'Burned Dead Bird', executed with chicken thighs and whatever wine or beer I happen to have at hand. I have not yet had to blindfold any diners, but it doesn't look all that appealing. Fortunately my diners are adventurous, and the way it looks is no deterrent :-)

Just curious, but which kosher butchering practices would you consider inhumane? Kosher (and Halal) slaughter involves a quick, deep slash across the throat of the animal to sever the arteries, thus killing the animal (and draining out blood). The knife used must be razor sharp to minimize pain. Typically the animal is unconscious within 2 seconds using this method apparently... On the other hand, the most widely used method of slaughter is to stun the animal first with an electric shock, and then kill it. Seems like adding the extra step would actually cause more pain to the animal, prolonging its demise, as opposed to a quick slash to the neck without any prior trauma... I'm not Jewish (or Muslim), and not defending the method based on religion, it just seems to be a better way for the animal to go... ← The problem for HSUS and PETA and their allies is not really animal cruelty, despite the fact that they have coopted the term 'animal welfare', the problem for them is any human use of animals period - for meat, milk, eggs, butter, leather, wool, fur, companionship, service ... you get the picture. They are perfectly happy to pretend to be interested in animal welfare to progressively redefine the term 'cruelty' and 'abuse' to mean 'raising animals for human use', including meat and even for pets. They are whittling away at our rights not only to raise animals for meat, but to raise animals period, and one of their stategies is to pit one group of animal users against another, using each group's ignorance of another to misrepresent whatever practise they are currently targeting. There are so few people any more who know anything about animal husbandry that they can tell any lies they care to about hunting practises, raising ducks for foie gras, livetock management, dog and cat breeding practises, or any other group you care to mention. If they can put show dog raisers out of business by wringing their hands about puppy mills, they'll do that - individuals are much more vulnerable than corporations. They are working on small farmers, hobby and niche producers the same way. They put pork raisers in Florida out of business by successfully granting constitutional rights to sows. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=29542 I'm sorry to say this is not a joke. Worse, the feds are pimping agribiz interests, and if the NAIS program goes through, you will see a huge reduction in the availability of locally produced meat, poultry, eggs, game ... organic and range fed meat and poultry and eggs will go away ... Too long to go into here in any detail, but see http://www.nonais.org for info, links to the USDA, your reps, and everything else you'd rather not know about this misconceived program. Apart from this, though, don't blow off the AR zealots; they have money and power, and because their goals are ludicrous doesn't mean we won't get stuck with them if we don't recognize the seriousness of their agenda and fight them actively. HSUS has pages which show which legislation they support and oppose, both federal and state - but they write much of the current animal law, right down to local ordinance level, and are finding that buying politicians and legislation is much more effective than funding animal terrorism. Enough ... if you want to discuss this aspect of your diet and cooking habits, I'm at the.limit@comcast.net Lynn

You've sparked a memory: My mom loved to squirt yellow mustard on bologna, roll it up, and eat it as a snack. As kids, my brother and I considered it a treat as well. Other trashy bologna comfort food: This thread is making me crave the meal my mom most often served us for lunch in the summer. It was two slices of white bread, butter on one slice, and mustard on the other. One slice of bologna, one slice of Kraft processed cheese, and an iceberg lettuce leaf. Oh, and two sweet pickles, either on the side, or sliced thin and placed on the sandwich, diner's choice. Sides included plain Lays Potato chips, carrot sticks, and slices of cucumber and tomato from our garden. This was all washed down with a tall glass of milk. Entertainment was a game of cards or maybe a board game. I'd skip a meal at the finest restaurant in town to eat like this again with my mom and brother and recapture those moments. April ← Bologna ... hard to pass up a bologna sandwich; my husband likes them with a slice of processed cheese (my Dad the cheese freak called this 'soap cheese') and some sliced sweet pickles .. Bologna and sweet pickles seem to do well together - One of my friends runs a couple of pounds of bologna through the coarse blade of a mincer with a couple of hard boiled eggs, a few sweet pickles and some raw onion, and moistens the result with a little mayo .. voila! Poor man's ham salad! This is pretty good on crackers or what have you :-) Lynn

If you've been reading the whole thread, you'll have seen you are in good company :-) Peanut butter is good with all kinds of things. It's particularly good with bread and butter pickles :-) And great with bananas, and PB&B is even good for you! lol! One of my favorites has always been celery stuffed with PB (and other things), but as I developed a rather violent allergy to celery, I now have to pass on these delectibles .. Allergies are very annoying ... Lynn

I'd have thought that cinnamon toast was OK .. lol! We also ate things like ... bacon and (canned) tomatoes, with bread and butter. Kipper snacks warmed in a little milk, also with bread and butter. Now that I think about it, those would be nice with some stewed tomatoes ... Creamed mushrooms on toast, particularly if they were creamed in bacon fat ... we cooked almost everything in bacon fat, and I try to remember to save the bacon fat when I cook bacon even yet - Sausage rolls. Nothing wrong with sausage rolls, is there? If there is, too bad; I still make them when I want an odds and ends kind of meal :-) Oh, wait! Peas and cheese sauce on toast! Yes! My husband had also eaten this in the days of his misspent youth, and so we indulge together! In the spring we push out the full boat and eat ASPARAGUS on toast with cheese sauce! When I'm feeling ambitious, I fill a roux with gruyere or whatever is handy, but my husband is fond of [shudder] velveeta .... Oh well ... Lynn

OMG - I had completely forgotten about porcupine meatballs. Mom used to make them pretty often. I liked them, as I recall. ← Yeah .. it says a lot that everybody liked them :-) Lynn

I suspect that what you are is *old*! rotfl! Dripping is worth it's weight in gold ... and now I have to *special order* a whole rack of beef (you don't want to know) to get it untrimmed, so I HAVE dripping! What kind of world is it when the pork has no fat, and you can't buy a beef roast that gives you enough dripping to roast potatoes or make some yorkshire pudding???? Lynn

That's the slicing width control - rather like yours, but as you can see, entirely exposed and a little more primitive. I suspect mine may be even older than yours, but still worked fine after my husband pulled it apart and cleaned it. When my husband came in the other night to find out what on earth I was doing, I showed him your pictures, and he said that what we paid for this (plus a 12 hour trip and some rehabilitation) was $58 ... and after some thought, I realized that the $87 or so I recalled paying for something or other was actually a rather antiquated Cuisinart ... also too heavy to ship, but located more locally ... lol! I was really thrilled to find that Hobart! Lynn

Damn, my mom use to feed us these when we were kids. She wanted to make sure she fattened us up. She did a good job too! ← My mother would do these from time to time, but I suspect that it was mostly because she wanted one - it wasn't a regular thing. She'd put beef drippings on toast, too, which we never got hooked on. As a child I was offered in various places, mustard sandwiches, ketchup sandwiches, onion sandwiches ... The thing I never have been able to figure out was something my mother made pretty regularly called Porcupine Meatballs. It goes something like this: Mix about 1/4 c of minute rice into a pound of hamburger, with a small onion minced fine. Make meatballs with this mixture, and roll them in more minute rice. Put them in a pot and dump a can of Campbell's tomato soup over it, plus a can of water. Simmer until meatballs and rice are cooked. Serve over mashed potatoes. If you want to get very fancy, put a pinch of basil into either the meatballs or the soup before you pour it over them. I suppose the tomato soup in this consists of 'vegetable' .. lol! I guess if ketchup is a vegetable, so is tomato soup :-) It tastes fine, but that's a lot of starch :-) Lynn

Isn't this wonderful? A couple of years ago I scored one very similar, and of similar vintage on eBay - we paid about the same, but had to drive from Portland OR to Everett WA to collect it - too heavy to ship! My husband disassembled it, cleaned and lubricated it, and made a cabinet for it; it has to live in the basement, because my kitchen is way too small for it. I am under orders, more or less, not to acquire any more kitchen stuff, because I don't have space for it ... fat chance! lol! I use it kind of cyclically - that is, sometimes long periods go by when I don't have anything to slice, but then suddenly I will have cold roasts and other slicables on a regular basis. Last year my German son-in-law imported a dry cured ham from home, and we sliced the whole thing on it. It is wonderful to be able to put the whole tail end of the roast, or whatever I want to slice without having to cut it up - it will just have to go wherever I go from here on! Lynn Hopefully this will be a pic of mine:

I found one in Professional Charcuterie by Kinsella and Harvey. I'm not sure I can quote the recipe, so I'll just list some ingredients and see if it will fly. They call for beef at the standard ratio of 20 percent fat and then salt, sage, thyme, cloves, nutmeg, onion powder and dried parsley. Hope that helps ← Yes, thanks, it does - this is really the best forum ever; having posted that rather desperate query, I discovered that bangers are also Oxford sausages, and that I did have a recipe - which apart from calling for pork and veal is seasoned as you have said. It wouldn't have occured to me to make them with beef, truthfully. So the pork should be just about thawed in the morning, and I'll have a go at them :-) Would it be right to assume that trying to make skinless sausages at home would be pushing the envelope? I have what is probably a lifetime supply of hog casings, but not sure I can find sheep casings locally, and skinless has its attraction - thanks! ← Traditionally British bangers are made with pork, Oxford sausages are a mixture of half pork and half veal, but the critical Ingredient in any British Banger is rusk or breadcrumbs. [snip] ← I made them today - I split the difference between two recipes, very like the two you have offered but not identical .. Mace seems to be pretty nearly a requisite, and it turned out I don't have any, so I went with a pinch more nutmeg and a hit of savory. Will have to get some mace. The test fry came out very well, and I went ahead and stuffed them. As I have not stuffed any before, these aren't as pretty as they might be, but I'm sure another foray or two will mend that. We will eat the first round tomorrow, by which time the seasoning should have matured a little, and I expect they will be better in the skins than the bit I test fried. Thank you for the recipes - all input gratefully accepted. I have a hunch this will be an ongoing project! Lynn

I see your chip butty and raise you a bacon butty...ahhhh, the food of my youth! ← what is it?? i'm ashamed to say i have NO idea ← In our house, we liked toast for the butties/buttys (what is the correct plural for butty???) so a bacon butty was toasted bread, bacon, and ketchup. Heaven... Edited to add that it just occurred to me that the foreign term might be "butty"...it's a sandwich. ← I'll see your bacon butty, and raise you a fried egg and raw onion sandwich on white bread. With the yolk broken and smeared liberally around. Salt and pepper. Bacon sandwiches in our house have the bacon put straight on the bread, and the opposite slice dipped in the bacon fat. Doesn't seasoning take it out of the 'ghetto food' class? rotfl!

I found one in Professional Charcuterie by Kinsella and Harvey. I'm not sure I can quote the recipe, so I'll just list some ingredients and see if it will fly. They call for beef at the standard ratio of 20 percent fat and then salt, sage, thyme, cloves, nutmeg, onion powder and dried parsley. Hope that helps ← Yes, thanks, it does - this is really the best forum ever; having posted that rather desperate query, I discovered that bangers are also Oxford sausages, and that I did have a recipe - which apart from calling for pork and veal is seasoned as you have said. It wouldn't have occured to me to make them with beef, truthfully. So the pork should be just about thawed in the morning, and I'll have a go at them :-) Would it be right to assume that trying to make skinless sausages at home would be pushing the envelope? I have what is probably a lifetime supply of hog casings, but not sure I can find sheep casings locally, and skinless has its attraction - thanks!

It's probably too late for me to get in on this - but I have a 48" viking, and though I swore I wouldn't give it up, we have retired and will have to sell our house. My initial reaction to this was 'where I go, that stove goes', but I've found a possible source for a commercial range, and I may succumb to that :-) I expect leaving it will make the otherwise dubious kitchen more attractive, and it would cost a fortune to move anyway. I won't mind trading up, but no way will I go back to basic residential. The Viking has been great - it's certainly a thousand percent better than anything else I have cooked on, and the 24" grill has been a wonderful toy. I looked at other ranges, and might have gone elsewhere, but it was the only one I could find that we could fit through the door, and at that the clearance was about 1/16", we thought we'd have to take the knobs off! We are building the new place, so will be able to put any fool thing in we can find, but if I can go commercial, I'll do it. Having said all that - measure everything very carefully. Ultimately, our decision pn the Viking was made by the width of the narrowest door it had to pass through. I don't regret it, but after some measuring we found the options seriously limited.

I'm a johnny-come-lately to this discussion, but as I've been thinking of making skinless sausage, (KA, all that planning ahead to get casings, etc), I'd like to hear more on this. I have made sausage (loose) a couple of times, but still working on the seasonings ... I'm trying for McGarry's (Canada), and/or bangers. I have searched every way I can think of here for a recipe for bangers, but can't find one - surely that can't be right??? tia :-)

I can't help you with the smell, because I've never noticed it - we buy 25# bags of organic long grain brown rice (don't know what we'll do for a local source after we move, but one thing at a time, eh?), and keep it in an old milk can, which seems to work fine, perhaps because it has a very tight seal. I cover the bottom of the pot (any well proportioned pot, preferably a heavy one or at least one with a heavy bottom) with rice, to about 1/4 of the way up the pot. I wash it 3 times, swilling it around with my hand and pouring the water off, then cover to a depth up to your first finger joint - about an inch - with cooking liquid. I generally use chicken broth, but you can use water salted to taste, orange juice, beef stock, or any other liquid that appeals to you. I add a pinch of saffron, some minced freeze dried onions (I get these from Penzey's), some garlic paste, some bouquet garni, half a bayleaf or so, or some rosemary, and a dab of oil or butter - generally EVOO, but whatever appeals. I bring the whole thing to a rolling boil, slap a tight lid on it, turn the burner way down and set a timer for 40 minutes. If you have an electric stove, just turn the burner off. It doesn't take much heat to finish it, and I actually use a simmer plate under it because my stove has large burners. Fluff well before serving. Because this formula will make a huge vat or a small pot, you have to figure out for yourself the amounts of seasonings, and which kinds. If you add fresh onions and/or celery, they will add a little liquid to the formula, dried onions will use a little. When you start with this formula you are better to err a little on the wet side, but it doesn't take much practise to get it to come out perfectly every time. Too little liquid will result in 'crunchy' rice, an unpopular result in my house :-) You can use any seasoning or combo of seasoning that suits you; the possibilities are truly infinite. Very finely minced carrot, onion and fresh parsley with a little garlic is nice. I had a good success one time when I happened to have some cut lemon handy by hitting it with some lemon juice and zest.

I resisted a stick mixer for a long time, but I've used my Bamix a lot, and if it weren't for the frozen fruit, I'd recommend it without reservation. I don't do frozen fruit smoothies, so can't speak to that issue. But .. it mixes peanut butter right in the jar. It makes great mayo practically instantly, right in the jar. It chops onions, garlic, celery beautifully in the little processor bowl. It's fame is whipped cream from non-fat milk, though I never use non-fat anything, so haven't tested that capability. I can't remember everything I've used it for, it's really very useful. Easy to clean, and I don't regret the price.

Precisely. If your PB doesn't separate at room temp, then it's got more than peanuts in it. (Probably some form of bean gum or guano gum. Yummy stuff.) ← Commercial PB seems to keep in the pantry indefinitely; if you look at the label you'll find it's been violated with hydrogenated fat and sugar, apart from the chemical preservatives. You don't have to stir the stuff or refrigerate it, but you don't want to eat it, either! lol!

If you're drinking it maybe ... java script:emoticon(':laugh:') Mine lives in the cabinet with the wine ..

But not only are their asses covered, you can sell MUCH bigger fridges this way. I'm very casual about a lot of leftovers, there are sausages sitting on my cold stove now from dinner, and I will have no qualms about making sandwiches with them tomorrow. Cooked meat will keep a little longer in the fridge, but not all that much longer, I don't think. A lot of veg go to mush faster refrigerated than in a cabinet. I don't refrigerate anything that is highly seasoned - I use very little ketchup, and have never found any had gone bad when I did go to use it. Jams and jellies will make a little mold on the top; my mother used to scrape this off - I do the same, unless it's pretty near the end of the jar. All that sugar keeps them pretty well. Pickles taste better cold, so if I remember and have the space I put them in the fridge, but the ones in the cabinet do fine. I refrigerate or freeze dairy stuff except soft cheese, and eggs because they are all washed, cold cuts ... those things do keep better colder, I think, but there are a lot of things we refrigerate that would probably be better kept in a cool, but not cold, pantry. One thing working against refrigerators I suspect is lack of ventilation. A friend who spent several years in France said they refrigerated very little, and in fact many people had no reefers at all. She said standard storage for many leftovers was the cold oven - coincidentally the place I stash many of mine to keep them safe from the dogs java script:emoticon(':rolleyes:') Much of this is cultural .. in the US, we are deeply indoctrinated to have our environment sterile if at all possible. It's not only not possible, it's not healthy. But the more food we throw out, the more trade agribiz gets. The bigger our reefers need to be, the more profit to the manufacturers. The less food savvy we are, the better the refiners and food companies do. Lotta propaganda out there people ...

Yep. I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't true - up to the time when the hard frosts hit, they are best in the ground, and Ruth Stout said the best thing to do just before that was to put bales of straw over the rows to keep the ground from freezing, so you could just go and pull them all winter. How good the straw would be would depend on just how hard your freezes are maybe, (Ruth was gardening in Conneticut, if I remember correctly), but I suspect the nearer to being in the ground they are the better, probably. Lacking a root cellar, though, I want them washed. But when we get out of town, (does this seem to be turning into a kind of litany?), I plan to do the straw thing if I can't organize a root cellar.