Bill44

Jim, if you are happy with your existing recipe then just divide the amount of each component by three and then multiply by five. This will scale it for your new pan.

Looks great Lorinda, the crumb structure is terrific.

No need to scald the milk Lorinda, over the years I have heard many things that should or should not be done, most of them have no basis in fact. A popular one is that you don't add the salt in your loaf untill after the first proof because it affects the yeast, like a lot of the "myths" it has no basis in fact.

This is what I mean about using too much. If you use the amount I suggested, 1 lightly heaped teaspoon to 1Kg of dough, then it will neither sweeten the bread nor soften the crumb and crust. Cajungirl, you would love the crunch of my crust, and I don't have to bake it black to get it. You do learn a bit in 25years of making sourdough, I first learned from a German baker.

Hi Lorinda, I'm in Australia and use Laucke Wallaby flour as my standard white flour. I usually add 1 slightly heaped teaspoon of dried brewers malt to eack 1Kg loaf and I find it does give a better rise. I have been baking for many years and can assure you that there is a difference. Somewhere on the web there is information about the use of diastatic malt in baking and the message that comes through is "Don't use too much" as it will have a detrimental effect on your loaf. So if you are using more than a heaped teaspoon you may be negating any beneficial effect the malt may have.

I've learned to live with it as I haven't found a way to keep it crisp more than about 6 hours. My spare loaves I freeze, and when I want to use them I thaw for about 6 hours and into the oven for 10 mins at 130C, they come out crisp again.

Thanks Bill! I'm going to try that. But in the meantime, I have some really good news. About two and a half to three years ago I created a starter using the "grapes" method. Can't remember which of my books I took it from, but it was a grand experiment for me. The starter was tangy and flavorful. I froze some of it and last night while searching for something else I found the starter. I was sure that it had been frozen too long to be revived. I let it defrost, put it in a jar and fed it, left it out on the counter, about 60F and this morning there was definite activity. I almost feel like I gave birth...and I guess in a way I did ← Congratulations "Mum".

Keeping your starter at lower temperatures will slow down the yeast activity, but it will encourage the formation of acetic acid which is your "sour". So if you want to get really technical about it, refresh your starter and let it stand for about 2-3 hours, put it in the fridge overnight and in the morning take it out and let it warm up and become active again. I have done this at times for a strong sour, when you lift the lid after it becomes active the sour will really clear your sinuses.

Yeast activity is not suspended at the lower temperatures, it still occurs very slowly. It takes about 2 - 2 1/2 hours in the fridge for the loaf to cool to the "slow" stage, so overnight in the fridge is generally taken as 2 hours proofing time, but don't count on this always being the case. Yeasts can be tricky depending on the type you have. For example, a particular strain of yeast used for brewing Lager beer is at it's best at around 3C.

Glennbech and Devlin, hopefully this will answer you both. Firstly the gringe edges show a thick edge where they have been slashed, this indicates quite a long time in the fridge which forms a skin on the loaf caused by the drying out of the surface. This skin will tend to inhibit the oven rise a little bit, and in a correctly proofed loaf the bread in the gringe will push up to completely fill the gap, in this case it barely comes up level, apart from not a lot of opening of the gringe. This combined with an overall flat look to the loaf is what I based my judgement on. When looking at the crumb of an overproofed loaf you will notice a compression at the bottom, this is caused by the weight of the loaf collapsing the weakened overproofed cells. In the case of Glennbecks loaf you can just see the start of a small amount of compression, which supports my initial judgement of a slightly overproofed loaf. The amount of time in the fridge is quite long, if you can not avoid this then I would definitely cut down on the first proof time. Putting your loaf (Basket and all) into a plastic bag before putting into the fridge will help (but not totally stop) the drying out of the loaf surface. A little bit of skin is good, particularly in a high hydration loaf, as it helps support the loaf and gives a good crust without overbaking.

The quickest way to get your "sour" back is to not refresh your starter so often, extend the time between feeding, and use more of your old starter when you feed. Some people just use a very small amount of starter and give it a big feed, this will give you a very active starter but not one that is very sour. Trial and error will find the happy medium for you.

A photo of the cut loaf would have helped, but judging from the gringe I would say the loaf was about 1/2 to 1 hour past its baking prime, in other words a little overproofed. The absolute peak time is when the gas bubbles have fully developed, but before the time when the yeast is starting to eat away at the bubble walls which will weaken the structure of the loaf causing, at a little overproofed - a disapointing spring and a smaller gringe, at a lot overproofed, the slumped loaf we have all had at some time. Just because a loaf is still growing when proofing does not mean that it is not past its prime baking time, remember that a loaf is at its biggest just before it collapses.

It's not a matter of being "cool", in my oven your method would suck, big time. The element in my oven is about 1/2" off the base of my oven and 1/2" in from the sides. If I baked on the bottom of the oven the loaf would, in places, be subject to the direct heat from the element instead of being surrounded by an even temperature. I don't like my crust incinerated, but from some of the pics I've seen some people do.

If you are serious about baking bread then:- 1. buy the best set of digital scales that you can afford, and make sure they measure in grams. 2. Dont worry about your crappy electric oven, it couldn't be any worse than my 24 year old junk, learn its habits and you will find that it's not so crappy after all, it's just a communication problem. 3. For your oven stone go to your nearest tile supplier and ask for an unglazed unsealed quarry tile (or paving tile, I'm not sure what you call them over there). Get one that will fit your oven and you are in business, just don't make the mistake of putting a cold tile into a hot oven, instant crack. Always put your stone in before you turn the oven on.

Glennbech, dont think that high hydration equals oven spring. I ve done recipes at 54% hydration that gave very good spring. The secret to oven spring is judging the correct amount of proofing before you bake. When to bake is the single biggest thing to master when baking sourdough bread, and thats a statement from a 25 year veteran.

Desiderio, from your pics I think the following may be your problem. It would appear that you are baking on a stone that has not had enough time to come up to oven temperature, and also I think your oven temp may be way too high. So what is happening is that the top crust is cooking and hardening before full oven spring, and because the baking stone may be cooler the bottom of the loaf is the softest part so thats where it tears. I also think from the colour of your crust that your loaves are way overcooked, if you have done this to get the crumb cooked then this supports my theory that the oven temp is too high. Hope I have been of help.

Olive and Semi-dried tomato loaf.

Here's a few english muffins I made yesterday. The dough mix is 81.6% hydration. When I cut the others they had a lot more holes, trust me to pick the lousy one to photograph. regards Bill

A) Lift your stone to about 4-5 inches from the bottom of the stove. Try 215C for 45 minutes. B) The gluten in white flour will stick to a cloth, use rye flour. C) It will speed up your proofing, and Lactobaccilus likes the higher temperatures so you will have a different taste to say 25C. regards Bill

When flouring cloths do not use white flour, the gluten in it just turns to glue. Use low gluten flour like rye or rice flour. My preference is for rye flour, don't have any sticking problems even with a 70% hydration dough. regards Bill

Well all I can say is use your hands, they will teach you more about your bread than anything. A machine mixer can't feel a thing. No offence intended, but some of the best bakers in the world, Dan Lepard for example, will tell you the same thing.

Just to break your heart. Where I live, Central Coast NSW Australia, I am about 100yards from a lake system open to the sea. From November to April each year we catch "Blue Swimmer" crabs (known by various names). A daily limit of 20 per person is in force. I have eaten myself silly this year on fresh crab and have 10Kg of meat frozen to get me through till next season. Burp!

We have available to us in Australia both varieties of mussel, the green variety imported fresh from New Zealand and our locally grown Blue, which we call black mussel. The black is considered here to be the superior variety and the green sells for several dollars per kilogram less than the black.

12 hours in the fridge is about 2 - 2 1/2 hours of proofing, so take that into account in your calculations. regards Bill