Lesley C

I think many of you are missing the point. Sandra the difference between wanting to be a good cook and having to cook for a living is tremendous. These people intend to earn a living -- you know make money to pay the bills -- by making cooking their profession. Second, it’s nice to hear you all say you can hold your own as good home cooks next to the pros, but I just don't buy it. You might have noticed that your brunoise is more perfect than the chef's brunoise, but all taken, the knowledge, experience and advanced technique just cannot be compared. I'm really quite surprised to see how little you people respect this profession. This isn't a hobby, this is their life. Jango, I've taught plenty of amateurs and worked with plenty of superb chefs, not a "sniveling little twerp” in the bunch. There's no pressure on the amateurs to succeed. Sure they want to succeed, but there’s no dark cloud hanging over their head if they don’t. It doesn't really matter if they mess up. The only pressure they have is the pressure they put on themselves. By contrast, people (I've taught young kids and senior citizens) who want to cook professionally are put under constant pressure by their teachers. It’s part of the learning process, as the pressures of a professional kitchen are tremendous. When I was in cooking school, my teacher screamed so often, I used to go out in the hallway and cry. Can you imagine if I snuck up behind some rich housewife and screamed "DO YOU CALL THAT BEURRE POMMADE!" or sent the housewife and debutante to the dish pit because they were talking during a demo? Sorry, you won’t convince me. I’ve taught both groups, and been part of both groups. Apples and oranges.

Yes but not because you have to, and that's the difference. I could argue this to death, BUT this thread is in the wrong place for it to have any relevance. It's not just about what we think, this debate should be open to all. Many good points raised, but frankly it's a bit wasted buried in this topic. Note: This thread has been moved to a separate topic where it should no longer be buried.

Sorry Jinmyo, I again -- respectfully -- disagree. Home cooks should work quickly and efficiently, yes so true. But a commis or pastry commis is paid by the hour. They have to work very quickly. There is simply NO comparison. The best pastry chefs I know pipe so quickly with a pastry bag, that their hands are a blur. Advanced knife skills are essential for a chef, and a rare luxury in the home cook. Few home cooks can work at such speeds. And why should they? Teach them to pipe in rows to save space on the tray, or the difference between chiffonade and julienne, but why bother showing them how to handle a 2l capacity piping bag, or how when you are kneading mass quantities of bread, you should use ice instead of water. Home cooking and professional cooking are night and day. This is especially so in pastry. OK, sorry this should really be a thread...

Well, I still think you're wrong. I've taught people who want to be pros and people who want to learn to cook. The discipline just isn't the same. And the program isn't the same. Amateurs and professionals make for a lousy mix. Sandra, do you ever work in the dish pit at LCB? Working in large quantities is not only about technique, it's about speed, one of the most essential qualities of a chef but certainly not a priority for a home cook. Do you think French chefs taking their CAP exams are working next to housewives? No way. I'd go so far to say it's disrespectful to the profession to combine classes with people who want to cook professionally and those who are learning to cook. But this is a whole other thread. I don't even think aspiring chefs should pay to go to cooking school. They should be government funded, like mine was and the French programs are. Public education. That way kids who come from less privileged backgrounds can try their hand at professional cooking without having to cough up thousands to attend LCB or the CIA. Do you think Joel Robuchon or Jacques Pepin could have paid for a CIA education? The majority of French chefs come from working class backgrounds. Are there any kids with working class backgrounds at LCB? Professional cooking is a blue collar profession. It shouldn't require an elite education. Save the expensive schools for the rich housewives and debutantes.

Sorry Suzanne F, I do not agree. Certain cooking schools are geared towards training professional chefs, while others teach people how to cook. Not the same at all. If you went to Le Cordon Bleu expecting something you didn't get (for a pretty penney) you certainly would walk away disappointed. When I went to professional cooking school, we didn't learn how to make one apple pie, we learned how to make six. When we made stock, we made gallons of the stuff not a single pot, and when we made chocolate truffles, we made 300. Get it?

Note: This topic started as an offshoot from the Girl Cook thread. I've often heard that about Cordon Bleu. And I know a few rich girls who went over to London or Paris before university to learn how to cook.

Louisa make sure you get to the pastry dept. The chef, Christophe Michalak, looks like a cuter Tom Cruise. And he seems very very nice (then again they all do until you mess up). Piege is a good guy too. My husband worked with him back when he was thin.

Hi Jancis. Thanks for taking time to enlighten our wine knowledge. I was wondering what you think about so many wine writers leaping on to the food and wine pairings bandwagon? This task appears to have been attributed to the wine camp. Strange. I have met many wine writers who seem so focused on wine that food seems an afterthought. In fact, many I know seem completely disinterested in food. How can they suddenly be telling us that turkey teriyaki pairs well with Cotes-du-Rhone wines and such? Do you see this as an attempt for wine writers to get more column space? Is this just the logical evolution of sommeliers who begin writing about wine? How do you feel about food writers suggesting wine pairings? Also, do you think it is more sensible to suggest wine pairings with a precise bottle over a region or specific appelation?

Joey, never trust a waiter when it comes to judging chefs. For all we know that guy might have only tasted cannolis and lobster tails. Waiters...grrrrrr. Hi Spectator. Welcome to eGullet. I think Cavalli really pushed to get in on the Grand Prix action. I'm not going near the place until late summer. But I trust the boys in charge will be fine tuning until then. I heard from one of the chefs that they were having a tough time finding waiters.

Joe, where did you hear that? I don't buy it.

Welcome to eGullet Monterey . Thierrry Barron is now a co-chef at Cafe Ferreira. He's a great guy, and a terrific cook.

Trust me, I've seen a lot of sites and that site doesn't suck. It's outdated and a bit eccentric, but it sure doesn't suck.

Oh they get away with it in print allright. You should see some of the menus I run into.

Vivre, this is a common problem. I went through about 50 Montreal restaurant sites this week, and they all have dated menus. I think the original push to get the menu on line is commendable, but little effort is made to keep it up to date. The wine lists are even worse. I see these sites as a marketing tool that gives the customer an idea of a restaurant's style. APdC crazy site is quite appropriate. Most of them don't even list the restaurant's hours of operation. And don't even get me started on spelling mistakes and translation errors.

Oooooh I made the roasted chicken with bread salad last week and it was wonderful. Brined (ok salted) my chicken for two days prior to baking. Probably the best chicken ever! Major wow. Judy Rogers's brining recipe for pork chops is also worth a try.

Spencer, no need for an apology. You're just obviously not a pastry chef. Such comments are sure to surface when you mix the rags in with the fine linen. And BTW, Aveda has some fucking amazing products.

Wow, David, thanks for your reviews. It's amazing to me how Toque! remains so strong after ten years. I was a bit down on Toque! lately (listening to too many opinions) but I had a dinner there last week that I found thoroughly modern, seductive and complex. Those superb products are coddled and treated with much love. I think it's better than ever. Glad you liked Savannah. They try hard, and that room is so appealing.

Actually Mr. chef/writer Spencer, I was also asking that question on behalf of a terrific pastry chef I know who only speaks French. He has read plenty of books, in several languages, and is very, very polite. Can't say that about everyone in this profession.

Cavalli is now open -- well at least the first floor.

Who increased prices for Grand Prix?

Well Aveda goes around saying their stuff is all-natural. I'm experimenting with caramels and I started thinking this might be an option for an intense hit of flavour. You see orange oil in plenty of cocktails. Spencer, when you suggested "maybe read a book," was that as in "maybe you read the idea in a book? or "maybe you should read a book or two."

Wow, great. Thanks, you saved me some major vomitting!

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if those essential oils you can purchase in bed and bath stores (like Aveda) can be used in baking, such as ganaches, macarons, caramels, or mixes like semifreddos?

Sinclair you are 100% correct about the audience for different kinds of books. Bau, Bellouet, Perruchon, and other such pastry chef (even Herme in some books) is writing for the professional. Pros have a whole different range of products available to them. Also, French pastry chefs are using very different products than American chefs. For instance, that beurre carotte is completely different from Plugra. They even have a special butter for making buttercreams.

Yes, in the old Mondo Saks building. I hear it isn't open yet. Did they pull it together for Grand Prix? The design was done by Miguel Cancio (who also did Man Ray, Barfly, and Buddha Bar) as well as the new -- very red -- Med Grill decor. And BTW, welcome to eGullet thezim