Michael Cook

Love the book enourmously, it was an early Christmas present from my wife, with a smoker arriving for Christmas. I've tried 2 sausage recipes, the bacon, the duck ham, and the pastrami. All have been excellent. I had no problem with the sweetness of the pastrami, if anything it was spicy for me in the thinner sections - where the ratio of peppercorn crust to interior was higher. I did have the same problem, where certain parts in the center didn't turn pink from the cure. In culinary school we pumped curing brine into anything over a certain thickness, I'm wondering if we should do the same with thicker parts of the brisket here?

A lot of marketing people trace supersizing back to movie theater popcorn, starting in the 70's. Easier to sell 10 cents worth of popcorn for $3, than to twice sell 5 cents worth for $1.50. Fast food grabbed a hold soon enough, and it seems like it's been a very gradual increase in portion sizes for sit down dining. I find it ridiculous, but people have come to expect it. I see people on eGullet complain about small portion size for the money, I'm sure we're all at least subconciously influenced by the chains. It depresses me that we (as a society) are so easily impressed by more food or a bigger hamburger. Is the Cheesecake Factory a better place to eat, just because there's 3-5 portions of meat on the plate? Why is a One Pound Burger special? I could cook you a 12 pound burger if you wanted one, or a hundred and twelve pounder, there's no culinary achievement there. We'll never see true "tasting menus" at a true chain, never. They may use the phrase "tasting menu", but it won't be one. What they're doing now at Applebees is closer to a Prix Fixe menu, 3 courses, choose each from a list of lesser expensive options. A true tasting menu, or a good Prix Fixe for that matter, involves choosing seasonal and fresh ingredients and creating the best meal possible from what ingredients are at their peak. A chain could never pull it off, they'd have to give up centralized control or have a logistical nightmare. I doubt they have the talent at each restaurant to prepare food that changes that quickly. And the average chain dining customer wouldn't want a set menu without choices anyway.

If it wasn't for the independent restaurants "starting" the trend, I wonder where the chains would get their ideas. TGI Fridays' corporate chefs are not out experimenting with obscure Indian spices or tasting lesser known fish and vegetables. But independent chefs are. And when an idea hits, first it pops up on some other non-chains. Then you start seeing it on Food Network. Then, if there's sufficient buzz and positive focus group results, its makes it to Friday's and Applebees. And if it's a flavor easily applied to fast food (say chipotle), it ends up on a McChicken sandwich. And in the eight years that it took to get there, that first chef and restaurant has tried 20 other new things, and delighted their customers along the way.

That's a good point above. And I may have missed this earlier in the thread, but remember the "economies of scale" that a big chain like Olive Garden has. They're getting the world's cheapest price on (probably the cheapest quality) veal, buying thousands of pounds at a time. It's a little unfair to compare dollar for dollar, even though that's what almost everyone will do. I've had decent chain food (I can't help but like PF Changs), I'll hit the occasional chain when I'm travelling and there's no other option, and I'm all for capitalism. But in all seriousness: chain restaurants are going to destroy what's left of our culinary society. Maybe that's too dramatic. But I don't want over-marketed, over-engineered food, grilled up and served by bored college kids. I don't want X-treme Chipotle Grilled Chicken Strips, only after three years of focus groups determine that Chipotle is the cool new flavor. I don't want to be stuck with whatever replaces spinach artichoke dip as the only new appetizer for 4 years at a time. Predictable flavor can be good, but predictable options are stiffling.

Wow...new to the forums after browsing the site for a year...I just read the entire topic - 130+ posts over 4 years, so please forgive my meandering reply. For the record - I'm a lifetime Detroiter, I've lived/worked in almost every part of the Metro area, I'm an alumni of one of our Community College culinary schools (although I'm not currently in the food biz), and I'm a serious food traveler. And with all due respect to some of the better places mentioned in the topic, I save most of my restaurant $ for when I travel. As others have noted, there are very few if any "destination" or "world-class" restaurants. There's also a relatively small supply of really good bistro-level restaurants. I have my cheap and ethnic favorites like everyone. I think you see a lot of these situations: 1) The "institution" that's resting on it's name. I had a much anticipated and very mediocre meal at the Whitney, and it sounds like others agree that they've outlived their reputation. Mario's (Italian) in Detroit was a huge disapointment. Golden Mushroom closed. The posts in the topic show a negative progression over the years at Tribute (although I've never been). Even at Boocoo (Hour's best in 2004, I think) I've seen the service slip dramatically, and read a snippy interview with the owner where they talk about how they "can't please everyone". 2) A promising new place, that has to dumb down the menu. I ate at Agave (Latin/Mexican) three years ago and loved it. I still go back when weather is good for the patio seating, but the menu is now closer to Chi-Chi's than Nuevo Latino. I see it all the time, maybe with just one or two dishes, but the average customer here clearly can't handle the more creative or authentic cusine that's easier to find in Chicago or on the coasts. Maybe that's why you see a large top tier of restaurants and few bistro-level places. Any city our size has it's upper-class, and based on a few successful things (the Detroit Institute of Art, Michigan Opera Theater is the nation's second largest), it's clear that there's some cultural awareness here. But the vast majority of the area is blue-collar, and much of the middle-class consists of engineers living in the suburbs - not a recipe for creative cuisine. Suburban living adds to the problem. I don't think I've ever been to a city with less of a focus on it's downtown. Now lots of the big names are downtown - Opus One, the Rattlesnake Club - but these are drive, valet park, drive home places. Bistro level places fit better in walkable areas, and in spite of the hoopla over casinos and stadiums, there's no shopping or reason to walk anywhere in the city center. It's no coincidence that most of the recomendations in this topic are in suburbs with decent mini-downtowns - Birmingham, Ferndale, Royal Oak, Ann Arbor, Rochester, Dearborn, Plymouth, and Northville. Maybe Pontiac and Mt. Clemens if you're bar-hopping. I really realized how behind we were when I wrote a paper on Rick Bayless for culinary school last year. At the time, Detroit had only one restaurant with membership in Chef's Collaborative (local, sustainable, artisan food organization). Chicago and New York had a dozen or so. So I started searching the web for other similar organizations with Detroit chapters - nothing. Found 3 in West Michigan, but nothing in Detoit. Maybe someone else in the Forum can correct me, but it seems like we're completely missing the artisan, local, and sustainable food trends. Forgive my rant, if you're still reading, and sorry to the readers who just wanted a lunch idea. Let me ponder and perhaps I'll post some suggestions

She mentions both Small Plates and Atlas in the article, I keep passing over both based on annecdotes from people who've gone. Anyone with positive experiences there?

It's easy to forget breakfast choices too...I have to recommend the Pancake Pantry on 21st...one of the best I've ever been too...

Thanks for all the help! I suggested Moon River after the first two replies, and my Boss happily scheduled it. I'll report back after next week...

I'll be in Savannah for a work conference next week, and what was supposed to be a free night on Monday is turning into a "team dinner". The rest of my team is composed of 9 salesmen ages 45-65, putting bearnaise on their steak would probably be considerred "foo-foo french food". My boss is "hoping to find a decent sports bar" near our hotel, the Riverfront Marriot. I'm a serious food traveler, and I'm willing to risk my job a little for a better night in Savannah. But if I can't get out of the group thing, does anyone have any suggestions for a place we might go? I'm looking for something simple and hearty enough to pass with the others, but interesting and authentic for me, dinners in the $10-15 range.