Sneakeater

Only if you use it that way. If, on the other hand, you use "neighborhood restaurant" simply to mean a place that's worth dropping in to if you're in the area, but isn't worth traveling to, a lot of those problems disappear.

The first thing that must be said is that this place has by far the worst signage that I've ever seen on a serious restaurant in New York. It's a real eyesore. Flatbush Farm has opened in the old St. Marks Bistro space at Flatbush and St. Marks in Brooklyn. It's a typical New Brooklyn Restaurant: seasonal ingredients, organically or sustainably produced when possible, eclectic but simple ingredient-driven recipes, blah blah blah. If this were ten years ago, I'd have been ecstatic to have this restaurant so close to my neighborhood. Now, I have to think that the food at the somewhat similar Stone Park Cafe -- to name just one place -- while possibly a bit more expensive (although possibly not -- I'm terrible at remembering prices), is much better as food; and the prix fixe at the much more similar Sorrel is a much much better value (and, although much cheaper, might also be better as food). And Franny's -- pretty much across the street -- is one of the best places to eat in New York City, IMO. In other words, the Brooklyn dining scene has now developed to the point where I can say that I won't be rushing back to this perfectly respectable place because there are so many superior local options. Who'd have thought?

The last several posts reveal a difference in subjective taste about something that goes far beyond any differences you usually see here in subjective judgments of food. We have our differences about food here, but there's a pretty good general concensus about what's good and what isn't. Even when I disagree with people's evaluations, I can usually understand why they like or don't like something. But I have to say that I can't understand anyone's not finding the interior of Del Posto borderline offensive. On the other hand, Bryan and oakapple probably can't understand my response to it.

If Genee Cream ever improved, we'd all complain, right?

Of course, now we know that leafy green vegetables can KILL you. (I always suspected as much.)

Pedophile! He looks young enough to be a Congressional page.

1. Mine too. I just didn't want to say anything bad about the dead. 2. I actually would have thought it was a dill cucumber sauce, too, but I could swear the menu said "mint". I was gonna mention that, but it seemed too involved. Now that you say this, too, though, my recollection of the menu has to be wrong, if it differs from both our recollections of the actual dish. Especially since one of us (the one who isn't me) actually knows what she's talking about.

To me, the Gutenbrunner restaurant that raises this issue is Blaue Gans. It looks like a neighborhood restaurant, and it's run like a neighborhood restaurant, but I for one regularly travel to go there.

1. You're right, it was always $41. 2. You're right, it never had any choices. 3. I'm relieved. I was getting the impression that, although you're a college student, cost was somehow never an issue for you. Frankly, that scared me. (Well, maybe awed.)

I dropped into Degustation as a solo walk-in after attending a nearby East Village theater performance a few nights ago. I post this update in order to confirm the telephone problems, give news of the current balance of patronage between Degustation and Jewel Bako, and alert you all to a good new dish on Degustation's menu. 1. I couldn't get a phone listing for Degustation from Verizon information. There was a Jewel Bako listing, and when I called it, the person who answered was handling Degustation reservations as well. Since none was available for when I wanted one, the lack of a separate dedicated phone line with an identifiable phone number doesn't seem to be hurting them. 2. I decided to try for a walk-in anyway. They told me to come back in a half hour, but when I did, no one who they thought would be leaving was near finished. They asked me if I would take my first couple of courses in Jewel Bako and then move to the Degustation counter when a seat became available. The point to make here is that, while Degustation was packed, Jewel Bako was nearly empty. Michelin star (for now) or not, I think the Times review -- coupled with general street knowledge of its decline -- has killed Jewel Bako. If eG had a "Deathwatch", I'd nominate Jewel Bako for it. Another point to make is that sitting in the empty Jewel Bako dining room is nowhere near as fun, at least for the solo diner, as sitting at the Degustation counter. When I moved in, my experience improved exponentially. 3. There's a great new addition to the intermediate section of the Degustation menu. Fried sweetbreads with a mint yoghurt sauce and chilies. The sweetbreads have a seriously crispy batter. They're just delicious. (It's the law of preservation of fried sweetbread dishes at work in the East Village. Now that we've lost Uovo's sweetbread poppers, we get these.)

(emphasis added) At least over the summer (and I haven't heard they've ended it), there was a similar four-course $49 prix fixe available in bar area (but, unlike this new Sunday menu, not the dining room) during the week.

This raises a point that, while off-point to this thread, picks up on a comment Bryan made in another thread that I found interesting. I'll just say this here, and if any discussion develops we can start a separate thread for it. Bryan, you said in the Perry Street thread that you don't like to order a la carte but prefer tasting menus (the unavailability of one at Perry Street being a reason you'd defer returning). Accepting oakapple's correct observation that the $49 menu at Del Posto is a prix fixe rather than a tasting menu,* does this fit into your preference? If so, what is it about a four-course prix fixe that makes it seem more attractive to you than ordering a traditional four-course Italian meal a la carte? I can see that multi-course tasting menus have the advantage of letting you sample a large number of dishes that you expect the kitchen selected because they are believed to show the kitchen's cooking at its best (with the concommitant disadvantage that portion sizes can be too small to permit you to fully savor each dish). But in my experience, the only advantage of prix fixe menus over a la carte is price. The component items often seem to be chosen more for cost and universal palatability than for any esthetic reason. (Unlike tasting menus, prix fixe menus almost never seem to feature the most interesting dishes from the a la carte menu.) From the totality of your posts, I can't believe it's a question of cost. Much less an inability to choose things to order. So what is it? ____________________________________________________________ * The distinction being that a prix fixe has no more than the usual number of courses, whereas a tasting menu has many more.

I had a similar (but not identical) tasting menu at Del Posto and it didn't leave me hungry. A few more pasta dishes would have left me stuffed. And I'm a pig.

For the little it's worth, I completely agree with your assessment.

Not to be argumentative, Bryan, but it's hard for me to accept that a restaurant that's right next door to another major restaurant (Craftsteak) and right across the street from yet another major restaurant (Morimoto) and also from (the back entrance to) a major food market (Chelsea) is "in the middle of nowhere, seriously". (While I'm not being argumentative, I also have to say that when Del Posto opened, people here sometimes complained about how far it is from the subway. In fact, it's only four blocks or so from the nearest subway stop. You never hear complaints about how remote L'Impero is, but that place is at least as far from the nearest subway stop as Del Posto is. It may be that lower Tenth Ave. is unfamiliar to some people, but it's no more remote than anywhere else in Manhattan.)

I think Oakapple is absolutely right. I think any decent, non-weird, market-priced steakhouse would succeed in that location. I don't think reviews will much matter.

I'll bet he meant Joe's Shanghai.

I really like DB Bistro a lot. My first thought was that it's not "special" enough to be one of only three "wonderful" dinners during a rare visit to New York. But OTOH, if you're looking for a somewhat "downscale" place, you can do a lot worse. I eat there pretty frequently myself.

And all I was saying is that it hasn't been uncommon for at least decades (if not centuries). It's just that now we have much more ambitious places seeking to serve that kind of situation.

You know (and I think it might have some relevance here), it occurs to me that the reason I don't think Perry Street does or should have a tasting menu is sort of the flip side of the reason I think the setting and style of service at Eleven Madison Park are incommensurate with the food.

Also, I wouldn't assume that people who want to go to Mr. K's would necessarily appreciate Grand Sichuan.

I don't know if this counts as a thought, but I enjoy DavidBurke&Donatella very much, and I think it would be a good convivial spot to go to with colleagues.

I know I'm weird, but I just find it interesting that here's this term that oakapple would swear is a "term of art" with an established meaning, yet it seems to be understood several different ways. It's always interesting (at least to weird people like me) to unpack that. And then, once you've done that, to see what you can salvage from the wreckage.

I understand that. I'm really not trying to reach any particular result here. I'm just trying to understand how this term is used and to see if any consensus can be reached on how it should be used.

Except NOT if you use the term "neighborhood place" in the "polarity" sense of somewhere worth dropping into if you're in the neighborhood, but not worth a trip for the sole purpose of dining there.