ulterior epicure

Hector, could you please clarify your statement? Do you mean its "really really bad" that the restaurant is shutting down, or do you mean to say that the restaurant is closing because it is "really really bad?" If the former, I agree, if the latter, I would disagree. U.E.

Me neither - if it is true, then I've eluded the law many times. Gasp!! I think Epoisses is devilishly good... U.E.

Well put! There's nothing more depressing than feeling like you've DRAGGED your friends/family to a place that you really enjoy, only to have the experience ruined by a less-than-agreeable reaction - whether sincere or not... Dare I admit it - me too!! Me too. Yes I have - I pass (or crawl) by frequently... hardly ever go in. I have seen the Granite City all lit up from afar, but haven't ventured near it...

i couldn't have put it better myself!! ...honestly though, because i haven't dined out at chains very much (actually not at all in the past six months), i'm not aware of these long waits that everyone seems familiar with. the only place i know that has a long wait is the cheesecake factory (due partially to their "no reservation" policy). as for p.f. chang's i've only been once (at a location other than kansas city at someone else's' invitation) and have never even been tempted to go back. if any restaurant (even a really good locally owned one that i've been wanting to try) has a waiting line of over 30 minutes, then i would more likely go somewhere else, or home, and try another day - unless i'm in an area that offers sufficient distractions... perhaps due partly to impatience, but moreso i fear that when restaurants are swamped, sometimes service, quality and other elements start to slip... u.e.

not necessarily jgm... i suspect that the average egulleter has a preference for more sophisticated food, but are often (sadly) limited by a bourgeois budget - not a bourgeois palate... i think you make a good point. while i wouldn't say that the average chain will have food equivalent in quality/preparation/sophistication as upmarket establishments - i think the overall advantage of chains is in: 1. their ability to deliver decent food at often unbelievably low prices - ie. value. (this may involve mass production and sourcing). 2. a predictable, if not somewhat pedestrian, fare. sometimes, i fear that you are right - that upmarket establishments are able to get away with charging more for the same food (including quality, preparation and presentation) you'd get at a chain because of any number of "bells and whistles" they're able to add to the dining experience (ie. trendy scene, star chef, location, swanky crowd, popular hype, ie...). take for instance my meal last night: without disclosing the restaurant's name, i was at a very upscale (for the city) restaurant. one of their menu items was salmon. i refrained from ordering because upon questioning the server, i discovered (to my surprise), that it was farm-raised. i can get farm-raised salmon for (literally) 1/3 the price this place was charging at any number of chain restaurants... i was shocked and a little disappointed... u.e.

without disparaging the people in your neck of the words who prefer canned cheese products - laugh out loud!! ulterior epicure.

well, i don't know if i would say they're trying to "trick" consumers as much as they're perhaps trying to cater to diners' preference for a more "homey"/boutique restaurant feel... but overall, in my experience, chains are rather recognizable - usually easily identified by large colourful signage (usually lit and abnoxiously festive - sometimes with kitschy titles or logos) and a sophisticatedly printed menu. large staffs and impossibly expensive fixtures complete the look. oh, and who could forget the often wal-mart-sized parking lots and kiddie crayon and colouring mats... sigh... (polished t.v., print and radio ads are another dead-ringer) ... i don't know, perhaps i'm more sensitive than others (or perhaps i've dined at more than my fair share of chain restaurants ), i can usually smell (no pun in tended) the "cookie-cutter" establishment from miles away... that all being said, since we are on the topic, where do you all think the definition of a chain begins and ends? there are such things as local chains... do you think their quality can be discounted by their choice to broaden their geographic scope? (see zeemanb-initiated thread on arthur bryant's new west village locale). does bo ling's count as a "chain," (though originated in kansas city, they've now got an outpost in miami)? what about the pbj group (ie. yia yia's, yahooz, grand street cafe, etc...)? what about lidia's (ie. filidia's in new york, and another lidia's in pennsylvannia?)... u.e.

Forum Host Note: This thread was split from the thread containing Schneier's review of Granite City Food and Brewery. It's a great discussion but was taking the original thread off-course a bit so I though it best to give it a thread of its own. Carry on, please <><><><><> joiei i too have a hard time empathizing, but i do understand why people would "wait for mediocre food." even a food snob like me would admit that there is something to be said for consistency - which chains, in my experience, are able to deliver pretty well. as many of our discussions on egullet have shown, dining at the higher end of the food chain is often plagued by disappointments (sometimes huge ones) that come with substantial fiscal loss. i have to admit, when i get "dining-out fatigue," or am "burned" by a tremendously disappointing upmarket experience, i am tempted to dash to my local chain for some predictable "comfort food." ... sometimes, predictably mediocre is better than unexpectedly deficient! ulterior epicure.

while uploading my pictures from cafe trio (kansas city), i happened onto their website - which said that they are closed until february 6 for "winter holiday." is that a euphamistic term for closure? ulterior epicure.

oh my - it's great to know that my writing isn't just floating un-noticed in cyberspace!! well, as you can tell from flickr, i have a LOT of catching up to do in terms of reviews... i will try my best to produce - just for you! cheers. u.e. p.s. how funny - i'm exactly opposite of you - i favor savories to sweets. are you a pastry chef?

make no mistake - alinea is among my top "must re-visits" in chicago. i won't belabour you all with my "credentials." suffice it to say, i hesitate to judge any restaurant (or anything) based on one experience - and same with alinea. i guess all i meant to say by my previous comment is that, there have been many restaurants that, whether by chance or by true quality, have managed to impress me more on one/a first visit... that's all. jesteinf - if you are right, that alinea's quality and innovation has only improved since its opening (my visit was in late july), then i am eager to get back and compare experiences. cheers. ulterior epicure.

sorry docsconz... didn't fully read the context from your previous posting... thanks for clarifying... although i still stand by my previous comment. u.e.

um - yum? um - double yum! must i do a triple? thanks for that review! i do hope i make it up there soon! ulterior epicure.

while i certainly respect everyone's right to express and hold their opinion(s), i'd have to agree with robyn on this one. alinea was very good on my one visit this summer - and unique, but i personally could not say that it is the best restaurant in any one category - not even in chicago... that's just my opinion. ulterior epicure.

any recent visitors out there? i'd love an update. i've had my eye on tapawingo for a couple of years now, but never quite made it up there. cheers. ulterior epicure.

wendy you're very welcomed. i'm so pleased that you all are benefitting from my uploads! cheers. u.e.

Yikes - well I'm sorry to hear that quite a few of you have had a bad go at C.S.... but I suspect from your description that you had lunch... hmmm, part of me is starting wonder if the dinner experience is vastly different from the daytime fare? U.E.

amen! agreed! thanks, it's no consolation for me... but i suppose detroit and environs have their unique foodie spots... believe me, i can't wait to get back to kansas city. in the meantime, i might be making a brief trip abroad in february - but haven't decided if i should return to s. america or europe... or perhaps stay state-side and finally make a trip out to the french laundry... either way, the trip WILL involve food. ... i've got one more week here in k.c. - and i still have a lot of eating to do! hopefully will get a chance to stop by elbow's for some chocolate fun and perhaps one, or two more restos. cheers - let's keep this dialogue going. don't think that my physical absence will mean a forum absence!! cheers. u.e.

fyi kansas citians. my latest visit to le fou frog is up on my blog. The pictures of the meal can be viewed by clicking on the picture - it will link you to the flickr photo-set. u.e.

molto e. the schwa food presentations have an "organic" placement about them - how interesting... the sauerkraut and raisins, for instance, almost look as if they are crawing out of the plate. as does the white anchovy in one of the beginning courses. i don't say this to be disgusting, rather just an observation. u.e.

I might just try a "drive-by" tomorrow - yes, I had forgotten about the cinnamon one! YUM!! Ulterior Epicure P.S. joiei, are you from New Orleans?

Over-dressed salads are inexcusable, IMHO as well. Unless I'm at a VERY reliable restaurant, I always ask for the dressing on the side. If they refuse, I don't order. Gummy/gluey pasta is unpleasant, to be sure, but not as bad, in my opinion, as undercooked pasta. What kind of sauce came with the pasta? Was it cream based? "Cloying" makes me think it was a sweet sauce, but I doubt that was the case - if so, then there was definitely a lot to be complaining about! I wonder, if we were to dine together, who the chef would choose to "please?" You or me? Seriously, we may just have different tastes... or different experiences... I have never tried C.S. at lunch, so perhaps it's a different wait staff/chef/line. Cheers. U.E.

Naughty, naugty... I'll bite - Is "T" followed by two (capitalized) letters? I have my own story about an experience at "A." Re: eating out - my anonymity is comfortably anonymous at this point - and besides, I'm leaving K.C. soon for a stint elsewhere - but not to fret, I'll be back within 6 months... U.E.

moosnsqrl. i bet we could agree on a few restaurants: 40 sardines (3 visits), zin (2 visits) and bluestem (2 visits), i consider pretty solid... u.e.

hmmm... that's too bad. can you be more specific about your disappointment(s)? again, i admit that my opinion is based only on two visits... and as my many visits to le fou frog have demonstrated - service/food/experience can vary from desperately sorry to good (not yet great). there are off-nights, and there are on-nights... room 39? not familiar... elaborate (on whichever fora you deem appropriate) please? u.e.