Steve Klc

That previous exchange here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST&f=34&t=15083& Seems that with "a very personal cuisine that is really quite dissimilar from most of what you would find in Italy" you're inching ever closer to me on this, Joe. Playing the "Who is in what league" game is less important to me, suffice it to say I feel you can find sublime and creative cooking going on all across the country--and sublime restaurant experiences (which aren't necessarily the same thing)--above and below this price point--so I think you really have to look beyond what something might be "worth" until you experience it firsthand. In this case, I strongly suggest you experience Fabio and Maestro firsthand, both are very special, and I agree with Joe your best bet is putting yourself in his hands, as it is with the most creative, most personal chefs. I'd also recommend you ask to have wines paired as well, agreeing with wmsmurray. Good luck getting a table. And Bilrus, we share in your excitement as well, and I suspect after the fact, whatever nervousness you had going in over ingredients or language you'll realize wasn't really warranted--as it isn't warranted in the hands of most chefs at this level no matter what their nationality because their influences, their reach is at once global yet personal.

Agreed with Mark--I think it depends on how you try to "do" Rays--a couple of regulars from the neighborhood go in there, just order the hangar, a butcher's cut or the chopped steak and a +/- $30 bottle of wine and get out of there for say $85 tops including tax and tip for two. But even that results in a higher check average than what is usually considered "inexpensive," value and quality aside.

That means the Pulitzer-prize winning columnist doesn't read eGullet as much as his multiple Beard Award-winning columnist colleague does.

For me, the four best restaurants, with the most interesting and consistent food within a walk of the Courthouse metro, are Rays the Steaks, Minh's, Sing Thai and Boulevard Wood Grill, in that order. I haven't had as much luck within the Movie plaza, where RT's is located though I haven't been to RT's in years...so given your criteria--frugal and not very adventurous--and assuming your friends might find real Thai and Vietnamese adventurous--I'd lean toward Boulevard Wood Grill as your best bet. Rays is likely above your price point (though worth every penny) and it is a very tough table to secure anyway. If your friends can do Vietnamese, Minh's is your best price/quality/value proposition in the whole area. (There's a lot of other cheap eats/ethnic/asian in the area which, except for the price, underwhelms.) Boulevard Wood Grill is one metro stop away from Courthouse--and there are many other safe/unadventurous choices near Courthouse none of which I ever find as compelling: Harrys Tap Room, Faccia Luna, Iota, Rhodeside Grill, Clarendon Grill. Hard Times Chili is second on my just-formulated-for-you "Courthouse/Clarendon frugal/unadventurous but good" list after Boulevard Wood Grill--it can be a fun place if you like hard wooden booths, excellent beer, chili and very decently deep fried things.

Look quickly online--that model might have been discontinued and the other Sumeet models are a significant bump up in price. I know JB Prince stopped carrying the Multigrind because it wasn't really designed to hold up to daily restaurant use. The weakest aspect of this model is a delicate handle in the top piece, which also tends to break in a restaurant setting--it lasts a long time when the person who bought the machine is the one using the machine.

Thank you, let's hope the hearing goes well! (I must have misunderstood what our server said to us...)

I've used the Sumeet Multigrind, which is very affordable, for like 8 years and couldn't recommend it more highly for home and light pro use: http://www.sumeet.net/ Every now and then I try to put one in a high volume restaurant and it doesn't last 4 months, you'll need one of the more professional ones for daily restaurant use--but anything short of that--the Multigrind is super. It can do nut butters, dry or wet whole spice mixes--so when you want to grind your chai tea and spice mixture you can throw fresh ginger slices in no problem, it pulverizes cinnamon stick or anything that might have burned out your coffee grinder. Caveats: I do not do a lot of thick wet mixtures nor do I grind grains. We do a lot of tuiles based on caramel sugar cooked to caramel, ground to a powder and then sifted out onto a silpat--child's play with the Sumeet. (I purposely heat up/toast many spices before I grind them, so whatever the Sumeet may or may not add is usually less of a concern for me.)

The slaw is very good on the pulled pork barbecue foldy bread thing as well. Beer and wine starting Thursday.

We also liked the cafeteria, it shares a kitchen and some staff with Boma--which is the other restaurant in the Lodge. We ate at Boma a few times, too, and recommend it, maf, much better at what it aimed for than what the more-upscale restaurant, Jiko, aimed for and missed. (Though I should add there was a chef change at Jiko and I've only dined there once, right after the switch.)

A question--isn't the cowboy cut the one that Michael serves with a few little nubbins of very flavorful meat/grissle still attached to it--which he'd otherwise trim off? I've had those little trimmings on a previous visit and man, they are addictively good.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the menu, Michael is that kind of chef--if enough customers want them, and he feels he can do them at a fair price and at as high a level as he does everything else, he will. I love his mashed potatoes as well, but I'd gladly pay extra for a side of great fries. I always do at Firefly, and I would here as well. Michael reads eGullet, he knows there are no secrets between lactose intolerant friends.

We've had a few previous threads on eG which might help, here are two which I posted on but I'm sure there are others: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=25073 http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=19671 There's some seriously good food on property at Disney, enjoy. You might also want to try Seasons 52: http://www.seasons52.com/ When Cliff Pleau, the former chef of California Grill, and the former GM (George Miliotes) were lured away by Darden Restaurants this is one of the fruits of their new labors--and they took a bunch of very good Disney people with them. (That California Grill carried on without missing a beat, if not improved, speaks well of the Disney culinary system from management on down to the line.)

I hear you Jan, and for the people who are pros and/or primarily bread bakers out there I'd like to keep hearing more reports of how they like this new model over time--and we've had eG threads debating this model and others--because my experience with the new machine style with the wider, flatter 6 quart bowl style is that it is not as well-manufactured, is more irksome to use and doesn't actually perform most pastry tasks as well as the 5 quart machine & bowl shape--it just does slightly larger batches of things slightly less well. Our 6 quart Custom edition is in storage and our two 5 quart K-aids with extra bowls are still out on the counter still performing like workhorses. At least for us bigger wasn't better. Though we don't do bread often--the build quality of the 6 quart would seem to be the longer term issue as it would come under much greater torque over time with bread. For home bakers--and some pros--it can be a disadvantage to have to do larger batches of things in the 6 quart when the larger batch isn't necessary. Anyone considering a purchase should seek out those other threads for more specific advice about models and brands.

From Jeanne's eGullet Q&A: "Was deputy sports editor for eight years that included 5 Olympics, 3 Redskins coaches, 3 Bullets/Wizards coaches, 3 Capitals coaches, Tonya and Nancy, OJ, Magic, Mike Tyson, 2 Michael Jordan retirements, one Bandwagon and dozens of stories on various athletes charged with drunk driving and sexual assault. Style assignment editor (one year), Magazine senior editor (eight years), Editorial Page assistant editor (2 years.)"

There's no doubt brioche dough can be used in a lot of applications--and no doubt it is a close cousin of baba/savarin--but the two doughs are distinct, and when done well the end results are very different. How much high gluten flour you use, the kind of yeast, percentage of butter or eggs, whether you do one rise or two, etc.--there are myriad little ways to tweak these types of dough and make them more personal--and with experience you'll find what works for you and you'll reach some comfort level. If you haven't had the Ducasse baba, put it on your fantasy wish list. I agree even these can theoretically be done by hand, but I wouldn't advise anyone spending the 200 strokes (conservatively I'm guessing) kneading even a small batch by hand requires. (And the problem with a hand mixer is it doesn't do the paddle/dough hook action well--in that case you are better off using your hands if you must.) To get even the brioche, for instance, to pull away from the bowl properly, to get it smooth and homogeneous, before you add the butter takes time and it also helps greatly if you can use the machine to adjust kneading speed, even if only for a few minutes--a little slower initially, then a little faster in the beginning pre-butter--and again a little slower once you've added the butter. Everyone has their own tips and techniques which work for them--but I tend to agree with artisanbaker you're looking at at least a 20 to 30 minute kneading job. I wouldn't recommend doing these doughs by hand even once--wait until you get the K-aid to do baba, savarin and brioche. Play with something like croissant, which requires much less kneading in the fraisage stage, until you get that K-aid.

I've never tried to, Richard, it's kind of a messy sticky dough that benefits from being inside the K-aid-shaped bowl. Just about the only thing I've ever done with a hand mixer is whip a small amount of egg whites, and even then it was under-powered. I recommend every amateur or home baker who is willing to spend any time at all making more than, say, brownies, which means any eGulleteer reading this, get a basic 5 quart Kitchenaid stand mixer. It's like buying an inexpensive digital scale--so you can weigh things and move beyond the scoop and sweep of the entrenched cookbook cabal. You're welcome about the spin, it's what I do.

I've baked other cakes in those shapes, Richard, it often works fine--and another thing you could do in them is mold a cream, like a creme brulee, panna cotta, blancmange, something like that, freeze, then unmold it and build a plated dessert around it. In this example, you could present your cream in the savarin shape on a plate or in a wide shallow bowl, sprinkle your strawberries and some juice around it, and then crumble some shortcake or biscuit crumbs around it. Think of a savarin as a very closely related cousin of the baba, Richard, many people use one dough interchangeably for both, but it isn't exactly as easy to make as, say, a pate brisee or pate sucre tart dough, and it involves yeast, but with some reading and experimentation you can make it. Any good classic french pastry book will have a baba/savarin recipe with instructions--there's a good treatment in Ducasse's pastry book, and Dorie Greenspan has a nice treatment of baba using dry yeast in Paris Sweets. Here's mine: Baba 125 g cake flour 375 g AP flour 7 g salt 60 g sugar--mixed together 35 g fresh yeast, dissolved in 100 ml milk 100 g water at 110 F 6 eggs 150 g very soft butter Put milk/water/yeast in bowl Start turning with paddle at speed #2 Start adding flour mixture Then add an egg--alternating flour and egg Paddle for at least 5 minutes Then add very soft butter and paddle for another 5-6 minutes Dough should start to pull away from sides of bowl Pipe 40 g into sprayed aluminum molds Proof for 15 mins in warm place until it is about 2/3 of the way up the mold Bake for 20 mins in 355-375 F oven. (Check at 8 minutes and turn tray around) Freeze when cool or soak and refrigerate. Soaking syrup 1 L water 500 g sugar 1 orange zest 1 lemon zest 1 vanilla bean 150 ml dark rum Soak babas with warm syrup, store in fridge

Cory--here's a very basic trend piece I wrote for Food Arts maybe 5 years ago, but you still might find it helpful: http://www.pastryarts.com/Articles/Sweet%2...tWineIntro.html I explored pastry chefs and their relationship with dessert wine, in a longer piece in the January 2000 issue.

Compassrose, thanks for weighing in here because you've crystallized a theme which I think every one of us has reacted to on this thread and that we've all addressed in one way or another, including Andrea: How something sounds or seems or appears--or how you think it sounds or seems as you read over a recipe--isn't really as helpful or shouldn't be as relevant as you may think--the proof ultimately is always in the pudding. Ted revealed how the more informed or more aware approach to "foam" should be--it's merely a cooking term, batters for certain cakes have been described as "foamy" for a hundred years and in this case the foam is a type of mousse--just delivered in a newer/higher tech way. How it is delivered or your perception of the technique is not important. The main thing that matters is how something tastes--everything should flow from that taste first--and then you can go on to assess how creative it was, how balanced and or provocative or delicious something is, whether it fit with the style of the cooking which preceeded it at a particular restaurant, etc. And some of us say it a million times but it is still true--taste is subjective and how we taste things and react to things is very personal, very individual. And that's why I initially commented on Andrea's piece by saying I just wish she made it more clear in the piece that she tasted all these desserts and that they were actually "good." Because that would have carried some weight with me--and then I could have tasted them and formed my own opinion of whether Andrea knows what she's talking about--because just from reading about the components you can't really tell anything. And Ted, I agree it is always best for us to speak in terms of generalizations here, unless we're dealing with specifics in recipes, on menus or in articles. I don't think anyone gains by speculating specifically whether so-and-so can do this or that. But I think I find myself--generally--on the other side of you and Corey on this one aspect: I feel that most of this current or younger generation of restaurant pastry chefs can NOT do the traditional French patisserie classics as well as those "classics" have been done, still are being done or should be done by the more traditionally trained and experienced pastry chefs in that milieu--say like my friend Eric Bedoucha of Bayards, who I feel has the best palate and is perhaps the best and most under-appreciated pastry chef in NYC at the moment, or perhaps someone like Lesley C's husband who is working in very classic, very traditional French styles in Montreal. I encounter more people, not fewer, entering pastry with less-than-adequate training and rushed skill development--we've even had eGulleteers accepting pastry chef jobs in higher end restaurants right out of school charged with creating and executing desserts--and some haven't even gone to school for pastry! And all of us who aren't as "old school" or as similarly trained likely can't achieve the perfection or transcendence Eric achieves in more traditional forms--we know "how" to achieve it technically and bench skill wise, we could write an article about it for the lowest common denominator how-to cooking mags like Fine Cooking or Cooks Illustrated-- but tasted and executed side-by-side I'm fairly confident this particular Strong group (perhaps with the exception of Bill Yosses as he proved in his Bouley Bakery days) wouldn't achieve what Eric achieves--and that I wouldn't achieve it either because he's better at it than me! But that is perfectly OK because I have my own strengths and my own means for personal expression and creativity, as do these other pastry chefs. In this I can only share my perspective, but I've gotten to travel a lot, I'm in NY a lot, I had the opportunity to write for a few years and was lucky to get out more than most chefs--who don't actually get to taste as much of the work of others as they might like. I have to tell you, my perspective (big picture) is much the same as that of Steve Shaw's perspective as a NYC restaurant critic was, which Wendy brought up--that desserts in general needed to get better, still need to get better, and that he'd had far too many traditional desserts and avant-garde desserts which underwhelmed or didn't work. I've had so many poor apple tarts, so many poor traditional desserts over time, that I became convinced whether a dessert is traditional or avant-garde doesn't really matter--both are equally likely to underwhelm or not be as good, or not fit the meal or be as well thought out or well executed as they should be. I think the situation is improving somewhat but as we discuss in other threads, the jury is still out. I don't think is being too negative--I just think more pastry chefs have to do what you do, try to express themselves and teach themselves and explore and keep as open a mind as possible--and if it takes getting out in the dining room and selling stuff and giving stuff away, then do it. And I'm not talking about replicating the apple tart taught in a cooking school which is adequate, which represents the form--I'm talking about once you've tasted that "simple" apple tart that is truly special, in the hands of someone special, it becomes harder to appreciate the things that aren't special, it becomes harder to appreciate the standard of ordinariness--and the smarter pastry chefs work their balls off to rise above that standard of ordinariness--even in simpler forms. With Andrea--I started first by reacting to how her article read and what troubled me about her wording--and tried to draw out from her exact words where I thought she may unintentionally have led her readers astray. But then as you suggested I went back to her website where she herself described the article she thought she wrote for the Post and she referred to it as her piece on the city's craziest desserts. I'd have had no problem with her piece if it just clearly stated this and if her wording didn't reach further, didn't mislead a bit and didn't imply other things, and you seem in the main to have come around to my perspective on this. To recap, she's not breaking any new ground even to her readership though she creates the impression she is; This isn't anything new and most of these folks aren't the pioneers though she implies they are; Her assessment of what dessert choice has been (comforting chocolate souffles and apple tarts) is perfunctory and dismissive; She even gets that wrong because for some restaurants and cuisines those still ARE the most appropriate and rewarding desserts! But most importantly, while this more creative track of "crazy" desserts deserves appreciation and deserves attention it shouldn't appear to come at the expense of more traditional forms--and she actually impies this as well by saying anything goes now when we all know, frankly, that it doesn't and shouldn't. Now, if you peek at her website it becomes clear not only does she think these desserts are the craziest in town--which, by the way, she likely has nailed!--she also thinks some of these Buzz-worthy pastry chefs are the best pastry chefs in the country, and of this group would have preferred to see Mason, Ong and Mehta as James Beard best pastry chef nominees. And again, I can't argue with her choice because based on where she eats, her awareness level of desserts, and her investment in the "what's hot, what's new" schtick, these are the best pastry chefs as far as she's concerned and as far as advancing her career is concerned. And while I support her right to feel that way, someone has to speak up for the bigger picture, remind her of the history, expose her to pastry chefs around the country doing amazing work, to those who aren't in her neighborhood or who create traditional things off her trend radar, the Eric Bedoucha's of NYC and of the rest of this country, and also speak up for those doing impeccable work in more classic, more traditional American forms, because if we don't the Buzz becomes the reality.

Wegmans had some juicy robust-looking shad's roe on Saturday.

I don't have a copy of that book Suzanne but you tap into one of the points I made which is the vital role of history and perspective on even supposedly mod "daring" desserts--and that even recent memories seem too conveniently forgotten as these trend pieces get filed. On the one hand I'm happy Andrea buzzes on about her current favs like Mason, Ong, Mehta, etc. Their work deserves exposure. She's positioning herself as a fine advocate of the what's hot, what's new, what's trendy schtick, she's successfully parlayed that awareness into a gig on the Food Network--so more power to her. But then it falls to eG, and in this case me, to say I just wish she made it clear in the article that this was a current roundup of "the city's craziest desserts." And left it at that. But that wasn't stated in the article. I'm left with the impression she also feels these are the best desserts, that these are groundbreaking in some way and this is why they're the best pastry chefs and, well, that's just a little too trendy and narrowly formed a perspective for me--and that's why I argued that a more fully aware appreciation of dessert and pastry chefs embraces some sense that interesting and innovative desserts existed, uhmm...previously...and that there are consummately professional and talented pastry chefs working very personally, very individually, within traditional frameworks and also within avant-garde frameworks. Let me ask a question--who remembers the very first time they saw a recipe or a menu involving avocado in dessert? The first time I saw chocolate with avocado was in Herme's 1997 book, for instance.

I agree wholeheartedly JPW and that's why I'm very glad you took the time to do the legwork to bring this more out in the open. Let's hope we generate enough heat here that the Washington Post Food section will draw attention to it (in the way they drew more attention to the Bayless-Burger King story after we at eG picked that ball up.) Steve Ells, founder and chief executive of Denver-based Chipotle, should address why sodium is so integral to his pursuit of fast good food with integrity.

John--trolleys are still appropriate and still in use in the US as well, in the (mostly older French) restaurants which have enough space in the aisles to wheel them around and have a clientele more exposed to and appreciative of what can be the more-relaxed pace of European dining. But with space at more of a premium--you're often paying for this privilege with higher price points all around--than if you were offered a choice of plated desserts, i.e. "self-contained standalone works of art." I personally would prefer it if more American restaurants working in the rustic/homestyle/Americana genre would offer a French-style trolley but with pies, tarts, cobblers, fruit salads and cakes of the day rather than a separate dessert menu--but even then the problem would be many desserts don't hold well on the trolley--it's hard to keep cold things cold or provide any temperature contrast--a warm cobbler with ice cream for instance--and that puts even more pressure on the servers and waiters, which as we all know is often the weakest point in the food creation and delivery system we call a "restaurant." Trolleys put more pressure on the weakest link and require even more time--which JerzyMade just raised as an interesting aspect to this question. Another way I still see this accomplished is to set up a kind of dessert bar--which simpler but good things could be displayed like the tureen of fruit soup, the bowls of fruit salad or mousse on ice--and which guests can walk by--which removes the hassle of wheeling a trolley around the tight corners. While I'm in favor of both of these approaches, John, I think the over-riding reason you see "dessert" as a plated dessert is not because it is a self-contained standalone work of art--but that that's the best, most efficient and most consistent way to get something good to the customer--even if what we're talking about is a cobbler (not that a cobbler can't be presented artistically.) I'm not so sure I agree with this Godito--what I've seen increasingly over the past 5 years in the US is chefs, especially older or celebrity chefs, diminishing desserts and the role pastry chefs play in their system--how often have you read reports of the brilliant cooking of Thomas Keller and while the desserts "looked good" we were too full to have any of them? Chefs who maintain the huge app and huge entree approach to dining--or the largesse of a long tasting menu--often subtly and not-so-subtly discourage the desserts they're not proud of, that they don't create and/or don't put much effort into anyway. Some chefs still see a meal in its entirety, transition to dessert well and offer compelling choices appropriate to their cuisine and style; however, I'm afraid an ever-increasing number of chefs are acting like they'd prefer it if you just left after the entree. They turn tables faster, sell more apps and entrees, and excuse themselves for not following through with strong desserts anyway.

Wise words these. Sugar serves the same function as well--can it be a coincidence savory cooking continues to become sweeter? Add all the fat some of our most famous chefs are adding or cooking in these days, poached lobster a la Keller anyone?-- and we may have just formed the holy trinity of eG skepticism. The Devil has been busy. He probably hates this Chipotle/Niman Ranch story you linked to: buy a better product which costs more, pass the increase on to your customers, market it well, sales go through the roof, try to improve other aspects of your operation similarly. The Devil can't win them all.

Don, you're usually much better at stirring the pot than this. It's OK for merely good food to lack depth and soul--great food has depth and soul, merely good food doesn't--and while the salt thing has prompted me to...become more curious...it's not a deal-breaker because Chipotle nails so many other things I appreciate. In true eG fashion let's bring the salt thing under increasing scrutiny, but Antoine Westermann has a heavy hand with salt everywhere he cooks or has consulted for. If it is OK for a Michelin 3 star, it might be OK for an occasional soul-less soft taco.