Michael Laiskonis
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Posts posted by Michael Laiskonis
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Is it relevant to bring Spain into the discussion? I've never eaten (nor visited) Spain or Italy, but would we have said the same of Spain, say, 20 years ago, or pre-Arzak? If so, under what conditions has haute cuisine developed there? Is its emergence unique in nature, or simply built upon the French model?
Apologies if this is a weak comparison...
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Thanks for your honesty and the time and energy you offered with all of your recent posts.
Some may have realized elsewhere that I am firmly on the Gagnaire bandwagon (based on four meals in Paris since 1998), but I surely understand the feelings of those who may come away feeling cold. I don't have much to say at the moment, but given the nature of previous threads, I'm eager to see where this one will go.
With respect to the overall mediocrity and lack of inspiration, would you generally attribute those to a failure on the level of conception (failed innovation) or a failure to fully realize those ideas (poor cooking)? In terms of clarity or 'theme' (absence of), was that in context of the progression of the entire meal, or within each dish and its various 'side' dishes? How might you specifically describe the 'excitement' you found on your first visit, or more generally, how might you describe, given your experience thus far, Gagnaire's cuisine to someone who was unfamiliar? Do you feel one must enter PG with a certain preparedness or rather an attitude of abandon, allowing oneself to totally surrender to the experience? Perhaps a bit of both?
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And to be fair and to clarify my opinion, I was disappointed by the last meal at Arpège, not because I wasn't challenged by Passard's style of cooking, but rather because of the repetition of dishes over the years.
But I will say that the point of the meal starting with an egg and ending with a chicken wasn't lost on me.I can't believe I missed that! Intentional you think, or mere coincidence? Surely not always the case...
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Bux, in his ever thoughtful way, has opened the door and boosted my confidence instead of biting my tongue as the discussion has twisted and turned beyond my range...
Two or three years ago, I embarked on a sort of vacances gastronomiques, that included three meals in three days: Gagnaire the first day, Ducasse (at Hotel du Parc) the second, followed by Arpège. I can honestly say that I enjoyed all three, while, perhaps, not equally, at the least for recognizing what made each chef different from the others. I arrived at each chef's table with a general understanding (to the best of my abilities) of his intentions and they all satisfied on that level. As a young cook, I feel I learned something from each meal. True, maybe the frequency of visits to one or two over the other show my underlying preferences, but those preferences are based as much on economics as any other factor (I had something to say on that point, either in the Taillevent or Haeberlin thread, I can't remember now which, and now the context has shifted. It was something to the effect that I surely have worried about paying the 'phone bill' after such meals, but such experiences are essential with regard to my passion for eating and the refining of my cooking). If anything, the discussions here have led me toward new territory and restaurants to visit when I next have the opportunity.
I agree with Bux' assertion that the chefs in question occupy the same tiny segment of the broader culinary curve; if there is cause for argument within this tiny segment, all I can say is, Vive la difference!
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As a cook, I love the onset of autumn not only for the products it brings, but also the emotional and sensory aspects of it all. Concord grapes are one of the first such items to appear (followed by dates and quince and persimmon and 'real' apples and meyer lemons and ...) and I confess to going nuts the first couple of weeks of availability. I'm amidst the planning of a visit to NYC next month and a visit to Blue Hill is now almost certain, grapes or no grapes...
Look forward to the details, my well-dined friend...
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Haven't we diverted this thread enough already?!
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Perhaps Cabrales would like to hire me as a full-time research assistant and dining companion, so that I can begin my real culinary education.***
***Insert smilie that suggests I've simply lost this particular argument and that I'm totally kidding, but if one offered me this position I would not necessarily turn it down...
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Oh man, it's getting late... I should just say, "Uncle"...
Also, the inclusion of sweet AND sour vegetables with the lamb goes to negate the inference you draw that the lamb dish suggests Gagnaire. That manner of spicing does not necessarily suggest Gagnaire.Hmmm. I disagree. I've had a few dishes where PG has explored sweetness and acidity in such a way (in this case it was honey and sherry vinegar). The caraway is not necessarily mind boggling, and the cooking of the lamb is rather straightforward- but throw in the fact that the picture in the book (I'm not so naive to think one can sum up a chef's ouevre on the printed page or computer screen) looks like a PG dish! ... it seemed an easy conclusion to draw.
I'll give you the point on Troisgros, surely he learned from his family, all I asserted was that he's taken his cuisine and thoughts further (of course, a matter of opinion) than that older generation, and soon the torch will pass to Sebastien Bras... I wasn't discounting Michel's obvious influence, just stating that an heir apparent was exposed to a very different approach to cooking. Influence is a funny thing, however... the best filter it through themselves, while the most easily spotted simply imitate...
The full extent to which we see Gagnaire's influence is not quite apparent... Sebastien Bras (Michel's son), one of the Pourcel brothers, Jordi Butron, Ludovic LeFebvre, are just the few that immediately popped into my head... I think it is too early to say...which is/was my real point, though I believe, even if it is totally without basis and extremely personal, Gagnaire will have an influence on the way some chefs cook. Cabrales, your views on his cuisine aside, would you agree with that prediction? Why or why not?
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Ah, but what would a Komodo dragon drink with his putrefaction?
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Cabrales,
Regarding LeFebvre, I sadly missed the one opportunity I had to dine there, and I know that the both of us are curious to see where he goes next. My inclusion of him, apart from simply free-association, comes solely from what I've read, and is best evidenced by the Culinary Chronicle, Volume 2: The Best of Italy and California Cuisine. To quote from the introduction,
His ambitious career in the field was highlighted by stays at the three star Arpège, as well as with Pierre Gagnaire, whose influence and signature are still present in some of his creations.
Of the five dishes presented in the book, four bear close or peripheral resemblance to Gagnaire...
Shrimp with Cinnamon Butter, Vermicelli, and Clams which is obviously descended from Gagnaire's Tempura de Langoustines, Pommes de Terre Sautées au Beurre Clarifié, Beurre Fondue à la Cannelle et Ciboulette from another excellent book, Dining in France by Christian Millau, published by Stewart, Tabori, and Chang in 1986.
Sea Bream on a Bed of Vegetables with a Cucumber Cream, the jus de concombres easily attributed to PG.
Rack of Lamb with Caraway and Sweet and Sour Vegetables, the mere appearance and manner of spicing suggest PG.
Meringue,...Rhubarb and Balsamic Ice Cream... the recipe given for the ice cream is nearly identical to PG's Balsamic Ice Cream I have on file.
As for Sebastien Bras, I don't know how much his own style would yet influence either son père or Régis, le second. Although Séba is credited for some of the recipes (which ones?) in the latest book, we will have to see perhaps further into the future what PG's influence might have been... I was simply thinking aloud.
And Troisgros the younger seems comfortable associating himself with the Groupe des Huit (Passard, Gagnaire, Bras, Roellinger, Chibois, Veyrat... why does the eighth escape me?) as opposed to the Bande à Bocuse of the previous generation...
To the others, sorry for derailing the thread. To my muse, Cabrales... right back at ya!
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A stage in Gagnaire's kitchen is the single most difficult stage to get in the world...
Painfully true. I've tried. I think I need better "connections." I'm sure I'd get into El Bulli easier...
As for signature dishes... As it relates to Arpège, I would add the Avocat... and Gaspacho to Plotnicki's list. Those dishes along with the Egg and Tomato- they are good and perhaps nicely serve as personal milestones in Passard's development. But is a tasting menu the best venue for such signature dishes? I wouldn't mind seeing them listed à la carte, but I don't think one's only degustation option should simply be a playlist of greatest hits. Hence, my feeling as to why I've closed the book on Passard for awhile...
As it relates to others... As a cook, I tend not to think of chefs in terms of their signature dishes, but, like with Fat Guy, of a more generalized style and how they influence the next generation. And as a cook, I do pay much attention to the technical innovators. To me, a signature dish should be in the eye of the beholder... I've recently posted elsewhere perhaps the most favorite dish I've eaten...
I must say that the most memorable dish I've ever eaten, in my short but rich dining career, came from that lunch at Le Bernardin:Skate Sautéed in Goose Fat, Porcini Mushrooms, Confit of Fennel, with a Squab Jus
I recently confessed to Eric the significance of that dish for me, and it was nice to see his eyes light up a bit... obviously a favorite of his, too.
To me, this is a signature dish in that it represents Ripert's skill, confidence, and adaptability of his chosen range of ingredients, namely, fish. And while Eric remembered it fondly, I believe it has not been on the menu since, nor for very long while it ran.
Steve, yes, I would count Robuchon's Potato Purée as a signature in a sense, but is it really, his, and isn't his dish merely a matter of technique, the likes of which you seem to downplay?
For Gagnaire's part, because he is an improvisational chef it goes without saying that his dishes are not really susceptible to emulation. Rather, he is one of the key people in the whole improvisational cooking movement....which is why you will never, ever see a "signature" dish from him. Which is surely why his book, Cuisine Immediate remains out of print ( Kitchen Arts and Letters told me it was one of the most requested book searches), which is why you don't see his grinning mug all over the press... Gagnaire's approach to food is that of an art that is constantly changing/transforming (even now... even now) from cooking to plating to eating. He does not even believe that a dish can ever be the same twice, that it is a moment in time, something that passes. It is a rather deep way of thinking, that, despite my poor explanation, I aspire to, though in my own food feel I as if I'm not yet skilled enough to fully realize. It is my understanding that because of this approach, he has no interest in documenting his dishes in a book again, that do to so would merely be like assembling a scrapbook, which would distract him from what he's doing today, this very minute. And I love that he cooks. Every time I've had the pleasure of meeting him, he's got spots on his whites and sweat on his brow. I won't discourage anyone from going for Senderens' Canard Apicius or Salmon with Sorrel at Troisgros, but for my money, I want what Gagnaire thought of this morning, and he's never let me down...
The full extent to which we see Gagnaire's influence is not quite apparent... Sebastien Bras (Michel's son), one of the Pourcel brothers, Jordi Butron, Ludovic LeFebvre, are just the few that immediately popped into my head... I think it is too early to say, though I'll step out on a limb and suggest that he might contribute more to cuisine than most on Plotnicki's Signature Dish thread...
Umm, perhaps I should save some for when Plotnicki starts the damn Gagnaire thread...
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cabrales posted on Oct 1 2002, 11:39 PM
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I am going out of town this weekend (hopefully; Clio)...
Will this be your first visit as well? Ken is doing some amazing things, and has provided two very memorable meals for me. But then perhaps my opinion is suspect!
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While many may have "sold their soul to the devil", at least Tony has done it with some irony and humor, and though he may not agree, a touch of dignity.
Not my nor your words, spqr, but a paraphrase (albeit a poor one) of Bourdain's. From A Cook's Tour, page 13, "Now I've gone over to the dark side too...One sells one's soul in increments, slowly, over time."
I respect him for his choices and for not taking it all too seriously. Some of us, once having gained entrance to that world, would no longer point out how ridiculous it can be. He also seems sensitive to the exploitation of some aspects of his TV series. It is all too easy to get sucked into that media fetish where the PR and magazines and high profile events overshadow what got one there in the first place. I think Bourdain will always remember that it all came from sweat, toil, and rockin' good food!
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Thanks, awbrig, I know Charlie tends to keep his people close, but with him spreading out, I tend forget who is where!
One more question for Cab, Was your impression painted by Charlie's absence? Do you feel the food would have been better if he was supervising, or if you had received the same food and he was there, would you have been even more disappointed?
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spqr,
Mr. Bourdain has already given us plenty of Reasons Why You Don't Want To Be On Television... While many may have "sold their soul to the devil", at least Tony has done it with some irony and humor, and though he may not agree, a touch of dignity.
As for Martha, it hurts, but I too must give her much credit for her success. As for her potential downfall...
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Cabrales,
Thank you for another report. Perhaps I missed it, but it wasn't clear whether you had dined at Trotter's before or if this was your fisrt experience.
Who was running the kitchen in Charlie's absence? I've been unable to keep track of who is filling the Chef de Cuisine post these days. Was it Matthias or Guillermo? Did the kitchen brigade play any role in the presentation or explanation of the dishes as they were served? How many cooks would you guess were working?
Were there any elements of fine dining or cooking that may have been demystified based on your observations of the kitchen?
It would not surprise me if key members of the brigade had completed stages in France and even Spain. It is my perception that Charlie has become a "member" of that top tier of chefs, where travelling among their kitchens would not be uncommon. Don't forget that a young Albert Adria spent time at Trotter's. A young friend of mine recently worked at Jean Bardet, with the help of Charlie.
Specifically, on what levels were your expectations not met? And what might your companions have judged differently? Could it be attributed to experience with Trotter's cuisine in the past or experience with haute cuisine in general? I'm perplexed by your different standards applied to "French" and "non-French". What, in your view, apart from the obvious Asian influence, defines a cuisine as essentially French? My apologies if you have discussed this point elsewhere!
After this experience, would you place Trotter's as one of the top three or five restaurants in the US, as the prevailing opinion seems to suggest?
I've received some nice baked goods upon departure. Seems odd that they would mail you the menu.
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Using Alain Passard as an example, while I was disappointed with the repetition of certain dishes and their long duration on the menu, I don't feel that he must further reinvent himself. His style has come to be unique (yes, I guess that is the product of previous innovation!); I would have simply like to have seen variations within his style in the form of new juxtapositions of flavors and ingredients.
I'm of the school that considers cooking a form of expression, and like other forms of expression, the emotions elicited can be the result of mere mastery of technique as well as innovation.
Varmint hit it on the nose by saying,
I think culinary innovation should be evolutionary, not revolutionary.It might make more sense to call it progression, rather than innovation. In my view, progression must be the logical conclusion in finding a way to intensify a flavor or refine a texture. In a sense, one must have a starting point with a specific result in mind (not to say happy accidents don't occur!). The Scientific Method is a good example. Some experiments will work and some may not, but I think those chefs that just dive in without regard to a point of departure are the ones that become transparent.
(edit: messed up the quote!)
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Another brilliant report, sir. I love the bit with the tie!
Apart from your initial hesitance, what were your general expectations of the meal beforehand? What levels of tasting menus were offered, and are there reasons that you went à la carte?
I eagerly anticipate your thoughts on Gagnaire. Though I'll admit to lacking a broad scope of French dining experiences, I'm with Mr. Shaw!
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A couple of years ago, I read a Ming Tsai interview in an airline magazine. A sidebar mentioned that Ming was studying with the same consultant who trained and polished Emeril for his Emeril Live schtick. A few months later, Ming had a brand new (and higher budget) show. Who'd-a-thought?
Within the past year or so, Food Arts ran an interesting piece by Wayne Brachman (from Food Network's Melting Pot and former pastry chef for Robert Flay) ... sort of a "day in the life" of a TV chef.
Don't be fooled- just as every chef you read about has a publicist, every chef you see on TV has undergone extensive coaching. The Brachman article mentioned a weeklong seminar for chefs-who-might-be stars, run, I believe by the consultant you mentioned. It's serious business.
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I confess I finally opened Bourdain's A Cook's Tour the other day. I enjoyed Kitchen Confidential, but so far this one has made me want to be better cook, and not in the professional sense, but just for me, my wife whom I cook for, and the ingredients and all the work that went into them.
Thanks Tony!
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marcus posted on Sep 28 2002, 05:47 PM
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Reading between the lines, the one question that I would ask is did you enjoy eating Passard's cooking as much as you respected it?
Steve Plotnicki posted on Sep 28 2002, 09:57 PM-----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a tough question to answer. How do I parse intelect from sensusal pleasure when they are so well integrated? It's not as if Passard offers senusality apart from the cerebral component.
My question would be, is it possible to fully enjoy and savor the cuisine of Passard (or Gagnaire, or Bras, or Adria) if you don't already come to the table with an understanding of his intentions?
Patrice- Yes I haven't gotten to writing that novel that would be reviews of recent meals in Paris, as well as New York. My apologies! Something tells me that Mr. Plotnicki might have something to say about Gagnaire... If so, I will allow him to have the first word!
I'm still trying to understand loufood's question about food and setting. To echo the others' comments, surely the setting maximizes the effect of Passard's food. Where else would you propose? Would a Cote Rotie taste better in Reidel as opposed to a plastic cup? Foie gras on Bernardaud or a paper plate? Of course. But surely there is middle ground somewhere. Would a disciple of Passard be able to produce the same style in a modest bistrot setting? Likely, yes, if the kitchen was of similar caliber. Ultimately, the ability to be "transported" by food comes from within the person eating it.
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But I have to tell you, when you were describing your meal, it sounded like you enjoyed it and it doesn't really seem to fit with the conclusion you reached.
Point well taken. I guess the main issue was that I felt, quality aside, I had taken in the same meal, or at least half the dishes, at least twice before. Taking into consideration the value factor... the fact that, if I'm lucky, I can only visit France once a year, and while there, am able to take in maybe just two such dining experiences... I will hesitate before doing Arpège again. It would sound pompous of me to say, "been there, done that," but I do sort of see it that way. As I said, I wish that it wasn't the case.
Not to say that Passard needs to reinvent himself, it's just that I would like to see more of the new and less of the old.
Am I being unfair?
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Steve,
Thank you for the flood of taste memories and for wonderfully descibing your experience; I've been wanting to post my thoughts on my recent visit in July, yet have not yet taken the time to pull it all together. Mostly, I'm still trying to grasp just why it is I left vaguely disappointed...
We tasted many of the same dishes, as I too chose the Pleinne terre, pleine mer menu (300 euros). I began with a flute of Billecart 1990 and due to the price of the menu and the fact that it was lunch, I economized a bit with a half bottle of Jadot Beaune Grèves 1998. Oh, as with all my meals at Arpège and most other three stars, I dined solo... Might I also confess of a pleasing, ritual pre-meal stroll through the gardens of the Rodin museum across rue de Varenne!
I had tasted many of the dishes before- the Oeuf, the Avocat à la crème de sévruga, and the Gaspacho. I always felt the egg almost defied description, yet you did so quite eloquently. Regarding the mustard ice cream, we just might perceive it differently if it was served alone. In tandem with the gaspacho, however, Passard truly defines, as you stated, balance. It is indeed not that sweet; I would attribute its silky texture to either processing in a Pacojet, or merely spinning it at the crucial moment before each service.
I've often considered Passard's strength as consistently hitting that mark where a dish becomes greater than simply the sum of its parts. All three of these dishes exemplify this point.
I also enjoyed a slight variation of the same lobster dish- in mine, turnips encased the lobster, but the vibrant, honey-based sauce sounds similar. The highlights for me came under the umbrella of what the menu described as a Collection légumière. A beautiful carrot consommé was garnished with a single ravioli, filled with sweet onions. As with all of his consommés I've tasted (I've come to consider his the benchmark)- nearly clear as water, yet so amazingly full of flavor. Then, perhaps the most revelatory for me in it's simplicity, four or five super-thin slices of yellow tomato dressed in a verbena vinaigrette. I found myself almost sucking on those bites of tomato, much like one would a slice of sashimi, savoring the perfect texture and brilliant pairing with the verveine. The Collection was rounded out by a delicate gratin of sweet onions (again), with Parmigiano and a healthy dose of black pepper- the three flavors jostling with each other to arrive at a fourth, ineffable flavor. As a passionate fan of Gagnaire and his, at times, 'manic' layers of flavor, I find Passard's minimalism nearly as intriguing and satisfying!
My fish course was also sole, but the specifics aren't clear in my memory. I, too, enjoy the bit of pomp and circumstance with Passard's approach to whole roasted items, presented at table, then whisked away, to return nicely presented on the plate. Perhaps my least favorite dish, however, was the chicken. It returned from the kitchen broken down into several pieces, with all the requisite gizzards and baby root vegetables, but I had the feeling that not a single bone had been removed, resulting in a fierce battle with my Laguiole, trying to get at all the good stuff. Fine, but labor intensive.
The difference between the standard cheese cart and that of Arpège, is their emphasis on the bien maturé. (Perhaps they need a reason to justify having red wine on the list!) Like the Salers you tasted, the centerpiece of my selection was a Comté, vintage 1998. Desserts have always let me down some. While the mille feuilles are indeed impeccable, I yearn for desserts that match the creativity and understated innovation of the rest of the menu. Sure, one has the tomato, but he's been doing it so long now, it appears, to me, more like a museum piece. I was grateful, however, that I was able to sample the strawberries and hibiscus.
So why did I feel let down? Apart from a few lapses in service, and a wine glass that sat empty for more than a few minutes as the sommelier (only one on duty) fussed over a DRC ordered by a neighboring table (justified?), nothing was necessarily under par. I admire Passard's food and what I understand of his underlying philosophy. I don't even miss the meat, though his foie gras with dates and hydromel ranked as one of my favorite dishes ever. I've never felt less than warmly welcomed and attended to by Laurent Lapaire and on two occasions by Alain himself ( I once was encouraged to join him at table as service ended and was completely dumbstruck, I sat next to Passard unable to constuct the simplest sentence in French! I think I asked him, quite clumsily, how his vegetables were doing!). I guess I'm just wanting him to show me something new. Poring over menus from four visits in five years... too many "signature" dishes. Perhaps I'm at too far a distance to notice subtle shifts and perhaps internal motives, but with this last visit, while the food was so wonderful, Passard failed to amaze me like he had in the past. And I cannot totally dismiss the factor of value. As someone in the business, I appreciate more than most the cost of sourcing such incredible ingredients and all the hands necessary to transform them in the kitchen; I'm still sad to see the prices at Arpège climb so much. The same tasting menu just a year earlier in April 2001 ran 1400 francs, about two-thirds the price, and two years prior the comparable menu was 1200 francs. As a person of modest income, I didn't feel good dropping $450 that afternoon. I wish it wasn't so.
Sadly, Arpège will not likely remain a perennial stop for me. Gagnaire will surely remain so. What might fill that void, where I once held Arpège so dear?
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I know a young cook who is currently doing a series of stages in France. He went through the kitchen at Trotter's and in the last six months has worked at Jean Bardet in Tours followed by a stint at Lucas-Carton. I will try to contact him and encourage him to share his experience. I'm sure is perspective would be of great interest to many of us!
Pierre Gagnaire: the good and the bad
in France: Dining
Posted
I can't really argue with any of your points, but the report of your first meal there is much more in line with my experience, as opposed to your last! The relationship you forged with the sommelier was special indeed; I think the service at PG can be a bit chilly, but once a rapport of that kind is opened, the synergy is amazing.
I've dined there, admittedly, within a short range of time, but I do sense a certain consistency in the overall vocabulary of his dishes, though I'm at a loss to effectively describe it. I asked if you were able to do so if only to see if another's description in fact gelled with mine. I wish I had been able to dine at the St Etienne version as to have a broader sense of his evolution.