jsmeeker

It's still a risk they are taking, though. The way they are treated now or by most inspectors may change one day. If an underage person gets away with something like this at a place like EMP, enjoy it it as a little bonus in your young life. Again, it doesn't bother me they get served. They aren't a bad person. The parents aren't bad people for allowing it. The server isn't a bad *person* for allowing it to happen. But they are putting the liquor license at risk. That's not something you should *EXPECT* to happpen or demand have happen. ← I would certainly not demand it. But I'd expect it. I also disagree with you that they're taking a risk, if you define "risk" as meaning something that actually has a chance of happening. (Finally, I don't think it's the server who's "allowing" it to happen. It's the restaurant, top down. As Sam said earlier, this is no secret from anyone involved, from the proprietor on down. Nobody's claiming that the waiters are -- or ought to be -- sneaking drinks to minors behind management's back.) (One more "finally." I don't view this AT ALL as a "young person" "getting away with" something. I view this as an aspect of civilized living -- which the regulators apparently recognize as well. I think that viewing it as "getting away with" something is, in fact, the problem.) ← By "getting away" with something, I'm not making some sort of moral or ethical judgement against the young person. Far from it. I don't at all disagree that having a glass or two or three of wine over the course of a multi course meal at a place like EMP is a VERY civilized affair. That's not the issue. Rather, I mean they are somehwat openly flaunting that something that IS the law. Would it happen at the local TGI McFunster's?? Where do YOU draw the line? Cleary, the *laws* of New York State say there is one to be drawn. At what point is it "OK" to have your line in a different spot than theirs? It's easy for us who don't run a restaurant and don't have a liquor license on the line to debate this. As mentioned before, I am glad I don't have this burden on what to do place upon me. (My tendancy is to say I'd *want* to look the other way, but I'd be nervous about it and I as I was looking away, I would probably looking over my shoulder for the liquor control board guys)

In a fine dining restaurant in New York City, it is something I expect to have happen.. ← you may be accustomed to it happening, but I don't think that means you should really be shocked and UPSET if it doesn't. Ehh... Whatever, though. I'm well past legal drinking age, so it's no matter for me. And yes, there have been occasions in the past where I "got lucky" and was served while underage. But I never *expeected* it. (then again, I didn't goto a lot of fine dining restaurants in NYC)

It's still a risk they are taking, though. The way they are treated now or by most inspectors may change one day. If an underage person gets away with something like this at a place like EMP, enjoy it it as a little bonus in your young life. Again, it doesn't bother me they get served. They aren't a bad person. The parents aren't bad people for allowing it. The server isn't a bad *person* for allowing it to happen. But they are putting the liquor license at risk. That's not something you should *EXPECT* to happpen or demand have happen.

Just boyish good looks. Years from now, you'll wish it was still happening.

If it violates state/local law, a restuarant, no matter what level it's at, could be putting their liquor license at risk for serving a minor. There is no way someone that ran/owned a restaurant would publically announce that they serve alcohol to minors in violation of state/local laws. However, I don't have a problem with Bryan getting served. If a restaurant chooses to look the other way, that's their business. I don't run a reastaurant, so I am not faced with this dilema.

I appreciated all the suggestions. I didn't see the suggestions for something other than a Zin until after I had bought the wine. Maybe next time, I'll go with one of the other suggestions.. AS I mentioned in that other thread, the Zin DID elicit very positive comments. For my family, wine is something that is aways on the table. I don't usually hear any one comment about the wine. But this time they did. That was great. Maybe they would have with the right Pinot Noir? Who knows. Like I said, next time. But back to the "perfect" mathing thing. People mention chicken/turkey and the differences between dark meat and white meat as a possible reason to go with different wines depending on which part you happened to be eating. Steven thought that maybe this was a bit extreme. So, I started to think about it and started to think about what I have done when it comes to a different animal. The cow. I've started a few different threads this year about wines with beef. Once for a meal Brazillian churascaria. Once for a dinner at a well known steak house known for it's massive wine list, and again for a Christmas dinner of prime rib. Each time, I got different suggestions. For the first, a Malbec from Argentina was suggested. I went with that, along with another wine tha twas suggested by the restaurant. For the steak house dinner, California Cabernetwas suggested. We actually went a different direction there and went with a Rhone... For the prime rib, people suggested the Zin. Is doing that being too matchy? It's all wine to drink with one animal.

I never thought my simple thread would spur such an interesting topic. Are we too "matchy" I dunno. Maybe sometimes we over think it. I think I may be guilty of this my self. I DO like tasting menus and I typically go for a wine pairing In most cases, they HAVE been a one-to-one relationship to course. I enjoy this a great deal. Why? Because I get to taste lots of wines. I agree with others that say a place like Aliniea would be an entire experience.. It's like going to a show (movie or theater or concert or whatever). You go, show up, and your senses are exposed to certain things in a certain way (the way the performers/directors, etc. want you to experience them). That restaurant is the same way. You show up and put yourself in the care of the whole team at Aliniea to give you a unique experience. So, no, in a special case like that, I don't think it's too over the top. Now, when it comes to more causal dining (or even holiday meals with family that aren't really true. hard core food and wine people), being really "matchy" can become a bit much. Steven's idea of picking a nice wine for the whole meal makes a whole lot of sense.. And really, it's something I"m trying to learn more about myself. It''s just the way most people eat at home for family meals. Everything at once. (except dessert).. For me, I was seeking a wine to go with a prime rid Christmas dinner. I asked for a nice red and possibly a white.. Not much was discussed about the white, but I got some varying suggestions on the reds. I never really thought too much about the comments about WHY one wine was better than the other. (the end cut vs. a middle piece) But Steven dug deeper into some of those comments and came up with this interesting topic we have now. Why not in Europe? I dunno. Never been there. What are grocery stores like there? Can you buy 20 kinds of coffee in even the most common suburban mega-mart? I think Americans (and maybe other "new worlders") are used to having lots of choices at their disposal. Of course, that may not explain MATCHING. Maybe it is more of the way wine is viewed. If Europeans view wine the way a lot of people in the USA view iced tea or Diet Coke, then I can see why they would largely stick to one wine all the time. anyway.. really interesting. It's educational to read the various responses.

I did enjoy this wine. I think maybe I should go back to the wine store and buy some more, but to lay down. The only issue is that I really don't have a "proper" place to do this. The best is a wine rack in my dining room. It's just normal "room temperature". Would that be an issue over the long term? It sounds like I would need to keep it for a few years. (and that might kill me, too. I really was going to try to avoid "collecting" wine )

the sticky toffee pudding was a big hit. Reminded people somewhat of plum pudding without being so dense and heavy. Most years, mom owuld buy some commerically prepared plum pudding and preapre it (just steam it, really) as part of dessert since my Dad was always liked to have it. Thanks for the tip! It was a winner.

Reporting back. Everyone liked the wines. Yes, they were pretty "full bodied" and maybe they were "too much" for prime rib, but we all enjoyed them. I guess that's what matters most. I won't even attempt to give tasting notes, as I really don't have the slightest clue on how to properly describe the tastes other than "that was good". And "this wine seems to be more 'full bodied' than the other one".

I'm going with a sticky toffee pudding. I'll serve it with a créme anglaise. Just made the sauce and I'll make the pudding either tonight or tomorrow morning. I'm not going to do individual ones, rather a single large one on a 8" baking dish. I can cut/scoop out potions when I serve it. How should I re-hear the pudding before serving?

Went to the liquor store. They had the Ridge Geyserville on hand (2003). Label says 76% Zinfandel. I guess it DOESN'T say "Zinfandel" on the main part of the label like a lot of the other Zins in that section of the store did.. Still, I'll give this a shot. If I like it, maybe I'll buy another bottle and keep it for a while. As for the Syrah... I DO have a bottle in my wine rack. Just something I somewhat randomly picked up at Cost Plus several months ago. It's a Yalumba Barossa 95 % Shiraz/ 5% Viognier. From what I understand, a Cote Rotie is essentially a red wine made with Syrah and blended with a bit of Viognier. But it comes from France (Rhone region). So, is what I have essentially an Australian version of a Cote Rotie? I think maybe I should take BOTH to dinner.

I found out today that I am expected to make dessert for Christmas dinner. I make dessert for a lot of family meals, so doing it isn't a problem. But I'm having a tough time coming up with an idea that will work well. There will be seven adults and two kids. Ideally, it should be something that doesn't require refrigeration (space is always at a premium) and can be made the night/day before, or partially made the night/day before, then finished early in the afternoon Christmas Day. I need help!

OK.. Thanks. I'm understanding better now. Ridge is a producer. They have vineyards all over California. These vineyards grow Zinfandel grapes (and I would assume other types as well). When they go to produce wine, they make a distinct one for each of the vineywards, using the grapes from those vineyards. This place is always educational.

Bear with me because I'm a little new to this getting into wine thing. What country is a Ridge Zin from? (just so I know to wander to the right section of the wine shop) Edit: It looks like California. Is Ridge the producer? Is Geyserville another producer?

My family always makes prime rib for Christmas dinner. Ok, I guess it's technically a standing rib roast because the folks don't spring for prime grade beef. Side dishes are usually pretty simple. Some sort of potato (usually twice baked potatoes), a green veg (green beans, usually), some fruit salad, a green salad, etc. Anyway, what's a good wine for this meal? I'm willing to drop around $30 or so for a bottle of red wine. Also, is there any WHITE wine that would be "ok". Mom isn't a big red wine drinker.

I think some people are confusing healthy and tasty. I am not toally sure if lower grades of meat are somehow less "healthy" (however it is one actually measures "healthy") than a higer grade of meat I may use in my own kitchen. Let's say that for argument's sake, it can be. How does it compare to me maybe using beef with more fat than a fast food chain burger places uses? Maybe going for 80% at home. I don't think big fast food chains use stuff with that much fat. Does that extra fat offset any other gains I might pick up with that meat? I dunno. It's ground beef. On a bun. Even if I make my bun, it's still going to be made using white flour. It won't be much healthier than a commerically baked bun. Ehh... I say it's all a wash. A burger, made with beef at a given weight is probably pretty close no matter if it comes from a big fast food chain or is made from the typical beef available in a typical mega-mart. All the other add ons are pretty close, too, especially if you resort to using Heinz ketchup, Kraft american cheese, etc. when making them at home.

For the champagne, we went with the Delamotte Brut NV. I really enjoy this and it's a little less money than all the big name producers. IMHO, decent value.. For the red wine for the main course, we went in a different direction than I had originally planned after discussing it with some of the other diners. But that's OK. One person expressed a like for wines from the Rhone region of France, so we selected a 1998 (I think that was the year) Châteauneuf du Pape and got two bottles of the same thing. can't recall the producer, but someone took a picture of the bottle. I'll eventually get that pic and I'll report back. Anyway, it worked out well. Everyone walked away very happy and very full after being at the restaurant for about five hours. (the wine cellar in that place is something else.)

You might want to read this thread. What do I not buy any more? Bottled salad dressing (not that I ever bough much to begin with) Canned soup (I'll still buy canned/boxed stock, though in addition to making my own) Frozen dinners

The Plano location has the same thing now. They did some remodelling of the store and removed the area where the rotisserie chicken, sushi and tamales were made and sold and replaced it with the wine display you mention. As far as the label printers and entering a quantity goes? the ones in the produce section work the same way. As far as I can remember, it's always been that way. I think the logic is that they want you to enter the actual amount instead of accidently taking a default. For example, if limes are 5 for $1 and you enter the code onto the scale, a 5 appears and the price is $1. But you can't hit print. You have to key the number of limes you have in the bag. I guess it's a "safety" feature if you have some number of limes other than 5.

you are right. The bar you had (with the fruit) is labled "Hershey's Extra Dark". not "Special Dark". I know because I looked for it at the grocery store last night. I guess it's easier for me to read a label when the product is actually in hand than it is on a webpage. I actually purchaed one. Still have not had any of it.

So, the bar you had (the one with the dried fruit) was a variety of Hershey's Special Dark? I wonder if it's the same chocolate that's always been in the plain Hershey's Specia Dark bars. I've actually used it for baking (puddie, pies, etc.) and have always been very happy with it. Tastes good. It's easy to find. And the price is wallet friendly. If they have improved the base chocolate, then I need to go pick up some bars and make a chocolate cream pie.

Yeah.. I'm sort of torn between a large bottle and multiple smaller bottles. I dunno. A magnum is just two standard bottles, right? So, a magnum, plus a standard bottle something else, is three bottles. The last time people from this group go together for a meal (the meal at TexasDeBrazil), five of us had no issues killing the two bottles of wine I ordered. A group of ten people? Three bottles of wine isn't too much, is it? Even for the people who really aren't too into wine, they would probably enjoy one glass. I like your idea of comparing two different wines that use the same grape (like the new world vs. old world). I know some people would be down with that. Anyway, I do appreciate the suggestions. It will probably come down to a "last minute" decision based on what everyone is in the mood for at dinner time Saturday night. Edit: I'm happy to see they have Delamotte on the list. I actually had that at a restaurant in Las Vegas (Emeril's Fish House). It was very nice. I always look for it, and never see it. I typically only see the big name producers everyone knows and that many loathe (although I'm not one that really loathes them). I think that might be my leading candidate for the champagne.

I think we have 10 total people at the table. Not everyone is a "into" wine, though. But I think for the people who are, we will need a couple of bottles for the main course. I can ask the group to get a better idea. Maybe it may make sense to get a larger bottle (magnum) of something. Could be "neat". Big things go over well with this group. One other thought is to have a few different ones for the main course, like I did previously when I asked for advice. That worked out well.

I made a post like this back in October. I got some great advice and things worked out very nicely. http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...0entry1324104 So well, that I am back to get some more advice. I'm going to Berns in Tampa Saturday night. Flying all the way from Dallas for this. I'lll meet up with some good friends and we are all going to enjoy an awesome meal. There will lots of steaks on the table, so the wine drinkers (there are several of us) will want some nice wine. Since there is beef a plenty, I think red wine is in order (I'll ask about wines for other courses in a little bit). I know the wine list is massive. Probably overwhelming, especially to a guy like me that knows so little about wine. Do we go with something "Big" to go with the meat? I'm thinking "yes". What to go with? I'd really like to try something "new". As in, new to me, maybe new to the other people. Usually when ordering wine, I'm thinking varietels like Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon and Pinot Noir. But I never know what's really "good" for a steak. Also, I will say I'm very interested in trying to wrap my head around old world wines and the way they are named/described. For example, French wine. Should I be thinking Bordeaux or something from the Rhone region? I dunno, really. The choices are endless and there are probably hundreds of right answers to this question. What I guess I want is the ability to have a somewhat intelligent discussion with the other diners along with the waiter/sommelier that will help me navigate the wine list. I'm really open to suggestions here, so fire away. For other courses, I think I have decent handle on basic pairings. Some people are interested in a caviar service. I think champagne (or some other sparkling wine) is an obvious choice here. Maybe they can get it by the glass. Or, if there are enough people doing caviar (or just wanting champagne as an aperitif), it may be better to go for a bottle(s). I'm open to suggestions here. I'll probably order foie gras. Some sort of riesling would work well, right? I can handle asking for a suggestion from a waiter/sommelier, but again, I'm open to suggestions and guidance here as well. I would be too surprised if there was some seafood on the table. Suggestions there would be good. ANd maybe, for the people who aren't really into wine, is it possible to suggest an "easy drinking" wine to carry them through a whole meal at Berns? Anyway... I know I'm asking for a lot here. But I think this group at eGullet is great and will give me some good advice. I look forward to hearing it.