waaza

I don't follow any threads, so finding this one is your gain, I hope. One recipe that comes to mind which might suit your cooking styles and interests is a tandoori style chicken breast recipe, with a creamy tomato and ginger sauce, which can be served in one of three ways to suit starter or main course. I have cooked this many many times, and showed others, when it becomes a kind of signature dish (awful term, but you know what I am getting at). It is also useful for those people who do not like 'hot and spicy food' as no chillies have to be slaughtered for this dish. And its a kind of India meets France. If this sounds like something you would be interested in, let me know. (I forgot to say its easy to make, very quick, stunning visually, and you don't need a tandoor). Have it with bread or rice. cheers Waaza

A few thoughts which may help: The recipe given is not meant for chicken. As has been found, the flesh gets very tough and stringy. This is one reason why specific dishes demand only one kind of meat, the flavours (from the spices) and those developed during cooking are chosen carefully. I can't agree with cookbooks that say you can sub one meat with another, although I think it's OK sometimes if you know what you are doing. The amount of chilli really depends on the type of chilli. I'm not certain that many recipes differentiate. Certainly their hotness will vary, not only according to variety, but with age, and region grown. In Goa, as far as I can tell, small round ones (called mundu, from the Portuguese Mundo, meaning world, I would guess) would be used. They are about medium hot. The amount of gravy is up to you. The meat needs to be covered to cook thoroughly, with the pot lid on. Once tender enough (you decide) you can reduce the amount of gravy to thicken. The best results, flavour-wise, are obtained when an emulsion is formed by combining the water-base and oil-based components. The meat to use is stewing pork, not tenderloin, if you used this it would get tough. Tenderloin needs quick frying to get its flavour not prolonged cooking. Don't use habanero chillies, they have a far too alien flavour to be in this dish. Although there are a few varieties of C. chinensis among the ~250 varieties of chilli that grow in India, none have the hab flavour, AFAIK. If you cannot get mundu, then use sanam variety, or if in the US, a cayenne (thats a variety, not the general term for chilli) would be OK. The bhuna process leaves the contents of the pan with just oil in. This is vital to get the heat that develops the flavours, and to extract that flavour into the oil/fat. The recipe was developed using well-known and understood culinary and scientific principles. Deviation from the recipe can (and probably will) lead to disappointment. If Grub is starting to understand the principles, I have done my job. The bhuna process is very important to develop the flavours. The spices (especially coriander, cumin and fenugreek) are chemically changed during cooking (that’s why we pan roast them) but also the proteins in the meat react with sugars in the other ingredients to form those meaty flavours which give breadth and depth to a dish. The colour of the sauce will reflect the amount of reaction the ingredients have undergone, though take it too far and you will get a black sauce The higher the heat, the more the meat shrinks, the more water is squeezed out, and the tougher the meat will be. Better to cook for longer at lower temperatures. HTH, let me know if there are other questions, please. cheers Waaza

don't tell me you grow sticky rice too, Episure! spinach instead of nori? what about fillings/toppings? but please no cowpie. cheers Waaza

thanks Diane, for the info on Baltistan. My son got there eventually, and had a 'real' chicken karhai, though he has not mentioned it again! Grub, its not a good idea to smash the onion up. They have a natural defence to wounding, when sulphuric acid-like substances are formed, causing it to produce a bitter taste, and sore eyes. So, keep them as dry as possible, the acid is produced when the substances produced by the enzymes react with water. With a little practice, you should be able to cut up a couple of medium-sized onions in about 20 seconds. I chop them a little differently to the norm., using the layers in the onion as a 'third cut': Cut the peeled onion in half from tip to root. Place one half flat face down, and thinly slice from top to root of the onion, though not all the way to the root. Then turn the onion through 90 degrees, and slice across the onion, starting from the top end, to the root. Just before the root, stop cutting, and chop the remainder. The oil/ghee should be at temperature before throwing in the onion, so chop 'on demand', not 'mis en plas'. Prepare all the ingredients on demand, there is no need for mis en plas in preparing most Indian dishes, IMHO. The onion should be cooked so that no (well, very little) water remains. This reduces the risk of acid formation, and leaves the contents of the pot in oil, which is so essential for flavour extraction of spices and browning of meat. So, practice your knife skills, you will become a better cook. BTW, the time reduction was probably more a matter of heat control, after all a 3 minute egg takes just as long to cook as two 3 minute eggs. cheers Waaza

the bitterness is caused by the natural defences of the onion, and is a consequence of being wounded (cut, macerated, etc.). Enzymes released in response to wounding produce sulphuric acid-like chemicals, which when dissloved in water (from the onion or the eye!) cause the bitterness and irritation. As someone has already mentioned, cutting causes less damage than macerating, so less bitterness is produced. Being an enzyme moderated mechanism, it is time and concentration dependant, so the less time and the less water present, the less the bitterness. Therefore, cut the onion quickly and fry at once, then macerate. Do not remove the root bit, it contains more of the flavour. Do not use water ladened large onions. HTH cheers Waaza

my view as well, for the former spices. As for dhania/jeera, they are supposed to be ground together, as this is said to impart a further flavour. It is difficult to work out what that might be from the chief constituents of those spices, why grinding them together should produce different flavours eludes me (at the moment!). However, they are two of a few spices which change flavour when roasted (even heated, even stored for long enough) so there may be truth in it somewhere. Not sure about 'chicken biryani spice mix', as there are quite a few different chicken biryanis, I would suggest keeping to the original recipes. Cheers Waaza

no, I said I don't see why it is a substitute for garam masala, it is a poor substitute for cloves, IMHO. With all that eugenol (65 - 90%) I can't see how anything else would be detected, flavourwise. see Spices, Gernot Katzer Garam masala would have to have substantial amounts of cardamom and cassia, and a dash of mace as well. If you just added allspice, you would get a hint of clove flavour, that is all. The name allspice was given way back in history, and the name has stuck, it is not a modern suggestion that it is a substitute for 'mixed spice', garam masala, or whatever. cheers Waaza Suresh, how do you add your star anise to your desserts? do you extract it?

yes, allspice is kababchini, suggesting its Chinese origins (like cassia, dalchini) Most of the essential oil is eugenol, the main component of cloves. Infact, if raw allspice is bitten into, all one can taste is the eugenol (with the characteristic numbing, like cloves). So, if you have cloves, there is little, if any reason to use allspice. It is supposed to smell like a combination of cloves, cinnamon and nutmeg, but I don't get those flavours. It has also been suggested as a 'substitute' for garam masala, I don't see that either. As far as star anise is concerned, it has a darker flavour than fennel (Indian aniseed), and is much more suited to being mixed with cassia, liquorice and black cardamom. If adding an aniseed flavour to dishes at the oil stage, star anise is useful, as it is less likely to burn, so that the all-important oil extraction can take place. Needless to say it goes well with pork, as the Chinese know very well. It is a component of Chinese five spice, along with fennel, so maybe fennel has something else to give in terms of flavour. HTH cheers Waaza

yes, it works very well, especially with a little wood smoke. Choose a firm white fish, and don't overdo the spices. You probably don't need long marinading, the secret here is subtlety. If you are using whole fish, putting fresh herbs in the cavity can work well, too. Make sure you serve with lots of lemon/lime wedges. good luck, and please tell us how it went. cheers Waaza

Here in the states they might be called "Boiler Onions" much more intense onion flavor than the Walla Walla sweet, or Vidalia onions which are much better eaten raw on burgers or something.. ← thanks, jw, I'll add that to my list of US/UK translations. It is unfortuate for me they are called 'boiler onions', as I hate the taste/smell of boiled onions. It may be one reason why I strive to perfect the 'golden onion' stage in Indian cooking, I dislike the 'green onion' taste with a passion, it seems to pervade the whole dish. thanks again Waaza ps its a shame we don't get to know the names of the varieties we buy, it would make life a little simpler, don't you reckon?

the pork (or other meat in other dishes) should be from the region of the animal which has done much work in its lifetime, meaning its legs basically, but any really red meat, or dark meat in poultry. Its because this meat has more flavour. Unfortunately, because of the construction of the flesh, it is also a tougher cut. So to cook it, and to tenderize it, one must cook it slowly, at a lower temperature than a steak, for example. If you heat this type of meat to too high a temperature, too much water is lost, and it gets really tough. If you cook it for too long, it loses flavour. This applies to beef, but less to lamb, if young. I stipulated 'medium-sized' onions to distiguish them from large (Spanish) onions, or whatever you might call them. Like so much other produce, large, beautiful looking fruit/veg often has less flavour, so it is with onions. I use ordinary onions, about 2 inches or so in diameter, not the large watery ones. Its the flavour that matters, and water content. When the onion is fried, one is aiming to drive off as much water as possible, this intensifies the onion flavour, helps to break down the starch, and to produce a sweetness. Always include the hard bit next to the root, it is full of onion flavour. HTH cheers Waaza

I think it's because the yoghurt can be absorbed more easily into the chicken. I think it enters the chicken by capillary action, and not osmosis, as most cooks imagine. If this is the case, then water based liquids will penetrate easier than oil based ones. The chicken which has marinated for 24 hours in low fat yoghurt based marinade penetrates to depth of about 1/4 inch, as indicated by the food colouring. This leaves the suface of the chicken drier after marination, which allows the meat to cook quicker under the grill and reduces the tendency to leave 'pockets' of wet marinade in the cuts, but gives a moist product as more water is absorbed by the flesh. cheers Waaza

I agree with Jay, but can confirm that if using fat-free yoghurt and 24 hour marinating, the breast does remain moist and tender (every time). Preparing your own spice mix would be the way to go, as you have ultimate control of ingredients. I never use onions, though, as these left in water-based liquid (for 24 hours) can become bitter an/or produce off flavours. You pays yer money...... cheers Waaza

Hi Arey, Not knowing the brand is a little like shooting in the dark (I would imagine ) for me, but I must assume the paste is of sufficient quality to give a good product. I make tandoori chicken breasts often, and a good dish (with creamy tomato and ginger sauce) for those starting to enjoy Indian food, but are a little concerned about the 'heat' which can be typical of this cuisine. The keys to success are as follows: the yoghurt should be low fat, this allows better penetration of the water into the chicken, so that, when cooking/cooked, the meat is very moist. marinade for 24 hours (in fridge). This allows the above to happen, with shorter times, the marinade is wetter, and the results inferior. I would use 250 g low fat yoghurt to a heaped tablespoon of paste (I use the dry spice mix, tandoori masala, look for it next time!) It usually contains the red colouring. use a couple of fresh cloves of garlic and about the same amount of finely minced fresh root ginger. The yoghurt and ginger both help to tenderize the meat. I either grill (broil?) under a very hot salamander or on a charcoal grill, the secret here is the very high temperature. The meat should be cooked until the extremities are slightly charred. Sprinkling with a little chaat masala helps to get an even meatier taste, IMHO. The breasts can be used to prepare other dishes. HTH, post if more info needed cheers Waaza I am cooking this for a meal next Tuesday for a person who has never eaten Indian food before. I am cofident it will be a hit; I cooked it for a French student of mine who proclaimed it (to his Mother who obviously wasn't pleased ) the best food he had ever had. C'est la vie.

a couple of things come to mind, ducks' Was the pan you used an enamel one? If this had a shinny surface, it could be that the bhuna process did not work too well. I use only cast iron pans (except for a cheap non-stick omelette pan, my original cast iron one split!!!). The spices/marinade need to become quite hot and browned to form what the French call 'fonds'. This develops the flavour necessary for this dish. The other problem is the recipe. It is not often that one can just replace one meat with another without changing something else. The spices in Indain cooking are very carefully chosen for a particular meat, to enhance some flavours and suppress others. Although so-called 'Indian restaurants' seem to think that any meat can be served with any sauce, this really is not the case . For example, Rogan josh is only made with lamb/mutton/goat/chimaera, although you may see other meat used. So here is a recipe for duck vindaloo. Goan duck vindaloo (vin d'alhos) According to Waaza, please copy the entire recipe, do not change anything and credit me if you pass it on, thanks. Ingredients for 4 people Heat a large shallow pan on medium high heat. (1) add 1 tbsp whole Indian coriander (2) 1 tsp white cumin (3) 1 tsp brown/black mustard seed (4) 1 tsp black pepper corns 6 - 10 lightly crushed dry red sannam chillies, or to taste.(5) heat until just smoking, then add 1/2 tsp cracked fenugreek seeds.(6) heat for another 10 seconds only, and take off the heat and cool. when the seeds and chillies are cold, grind to a medium fine powder. Add to the grinder 1 tsp garam masala (7) Place to ground spice mix in a bowl, then add 1 tbsp oil, 120ml (4 fl oz or 1/2 cup) cider vinegar(9) and 7 cloves of garlic and 1 tbsp fresh grated ginger. mix all together, then add about 900g of duck on the bone, cut into pieces(10) so that all the duck is totally submerged in the marinade. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap, and place in the fridge for 24 hours.(11) Place four tablespoons of oil in a pan, and heat to medium high. Add the duck skin, ribs and wingtips. Fry until they are well browned. Decant off oil/rendered duck fat, and reserve for later. Add fresh cold water to the pan to cover the fried duck parts, and simmer for half an hour. Reserve stock (do not add salt). To cook the vindaloo: Heat 80ml (3 fl oz, 1/3 cup) cooking oil to medium heat in pan meanwhile, cut two medium sized onions into 3mm dice(12) add to pan and cook on medium heat for about 20 mins, until onions are golden(14) strain duck from excess marinade and add to pan, maintaining medium heat.(15) Continue cooking until the contents of the pan dry up.(16) Add rest of marinade, and cook until dry once more. Add a little water, and continue the bhuna process.(17) Continue with this for about 5 minutes. Now add 1/2 tsp of ground turmeric, and fry for 10 seconds only(18) then add enough of the duck stock to cover all the portions, adding more water if required.(19) Place a lid on the pan, turn down the heat and simmer for 45 minutes.(20) Uncover the pan, and allow the gravy to thicken according to requirements, but do not boil.(21) Place the vindaloo in a hot serving bowl. To prepare the tarka: Put about two tablespoons of the duck fat/oil in a small saucepan and heat on high. (22) Meanwhile, chop fresh root ginger (about the size of your thumb) into julienne strips about an inch long, as finely as possible. When the oil is just smoking, add a teaspoonful of black mustard seeds followed by about half the quantity of crushed fenugreek seeds.(23) If you want an even hotter gravy, add a few lightly crushed dry red sannam chillies. Then, immediately add the julienned ginger. Cook for about ten seconds. Pour the hot tarka (or tadka) over the duck vindaloo.(24) Serve with rice, or potatoes, or both, and a strong greens-based dish, like spinach. Notes 1) this is to dry roast the spices, where the heating produces flavours which are similar to those from roasted meats. As the duck will not be roasted, it is important that these flavours are developed. 2) Indian coriander is the slightly larger, lighter coloured 'rugby-ball' shaped seed, said to have a better flavour than the (usually) Moroccan cultivar, but it really makes little difference. 3) Use the white cumin, and not the so-called black cumin, which has a very different flavour. 4) Or use the European white/yellow, it's not Indian, but similar effect. 5) Really to taste, if you prefer it even hotter, use the very hot Birdseye type chilli, but they must be dried, fresh will not produce the heat quickly enough for the marinade. 6) Try to find the cracked fenugreek used for making pickles, or very lightly grind whole seeds, be very careful not to roast these for more than 10 seconds, as they will become very bitter. 7) Make your own by grinding green cardamom, cassia, cloves and mace 8) 9) Goans would use vinegar made from toddy, a kind of alcohol made from palm sugar, but a mild cider vinegar works well, as would rice vinegar 10) Skin the duck. Cut the duck into breasts (each cut into two, on the bone), two legs, cut into two, and first part of wings. Use the rib cage, skin and wingtips for the stock. 11) The duck will absorb some of the liquid, making it juicier, and adsorb some of the aromatics from the spices and garlic/ginger, giving a deeper flavour. 12) The onions need to be cut into small dice so that the water can be driven out without burning, and leave the pan with just oil, so the temperatures can rise to those which start to brown the meat, thus adding flavour. 14) heat the onions (cut and cook immediately, to reduce bitterness) and cook on medium heat until golden, this takes about twenty minutes, there should not be any black bits on the edges of the onion, remove them if you have any, and turn down the heat a little. The heat will depend on the amount of onion, the size, shape and construction of the pan, and the ambient temperature/draughts, but with time, you'll find just the right combination, believe me. 15) It is important not to increase the heat or the duck will shrivel and become tough as it squeezes out the marinade you so carefully bathed it in! Keeping it on the bone may reduce the shrinkage a little, and add a little flavour from the morrow, if the bird is mature enough. 16) This is the so-called bhuna method, it’s a way of 'frying' the aromatics to hot oil extract the flavours without burning them, add a little water when it looks (or smells) as though it might burn. This gives a deeper, slightly smoky flavour to the dish. 17) Continue heating and adding water a few times to complete the bhuna process. 18) Turmeric will burn very quickly, so watch it very carefully, but it still needs a little oil extraction for those vanilla-type notes to come through, and to extract the colour. 19) This is a stew-type dish, all the duck needs to be covered. 20) The stock must only be heated to simmering point, that is, just a bubble now and again, if the liquid gets any hotter, the meat can shrivel and become stringy, and rather tasteless. 21) You could take the lid of sooner if you think the gravy is going to be too thin, or you could remove the cooked meat, and reduce the gravy on its own. Add salt to taste. 22) Ensure there is no water in the oil, dry with salt or re-decant. 23) Be very careful as the seeds can 'explode' and jump out of the pan, you have been warmed. 24) Be careful, the very hot oil will spit as it hits the water-based gravy, but is quite spectacular. You can do it at the table, but please be very careful!! You could add some finely cut coriander leaf for garnish if you wish, but I suggest if preparing for a dinner party, when several dishes are being offered, you put a very large fresh chilli on the rim of the serving dish, to indicate its pungency! Note, although I have used many chillies, they do blend in very well, the overall effect is one of total glow rather than stinging hot. Enjoy. Waaza

try adding blue colouring, and see what they say? only kidding!! It is usual to add those spices found in garam masala, but whole, like cassia, cardamom (green, the whole black ones look like cooked cockroach, you must have done it, or is only me? ) cloves and mace, also whole coriander and cumin, and a leaf from the cinnamon tree, usually called tej patta, and always described in cookery books as bay (laurel), but it is different. Use bay by all means, but if using cloves and green cardamom, it would be pointless. I think your feelings are correct, plain boiled rice would probably be fine, as the vindaloo is packed full of flavour, what is needed is a rather plain foil, for contrast and a little gustatory relief BTW, I would put the curry on the side of the rice, so that people can take what they like, sometimes a mouthful of plain rice is needed. Also, it is not usual to have just one dish at a formal gathering, and keeping things a little separate is a good idea. What has not been mentioned is all the other things one can have that make the Indian meal such a wonderful experience, like pickles and chutneys, raitas and cachumbers/salads. The ideas of a balanced (tastewise) meal is at its highest in Indain cuisine, IMHO. More later. I'll have a think about a flavoured rice for you, and maybe introduce you to my flavour square Are you familiar with raitas etc.? cheers Waaza

Can you say more? Which brand, for example? It wasn't 'golden rice' was it? That's the stuff that has been parboiled before milling. The colour and the texture are indeed somewhat different. I was told off by a cook in India for making my pilaf/pulao (whatever you want to call it) with regular Basmati, when he insisted it should only be made with golden rice... ← I still have the 5kg sack hanging in my kitchen! Its brand name is Sabina, it says it is 'super kernal' Pakistani basmati rice, produced and packed by Amin Ittefaq Rice mills, Nankana Sahib. The grain was super-smooth, and extremely white, but it was like eating little (soft) polished stones, to me, it was strange, the flavour was fine, and I have no doubt it was basmati, and I am only saying it wasn't right for me, it may be a perfectly good product. There is a notion that pilaus should be made with par-boiled rice. May need looking into. I make pilaus with good quality basmati, sometimes washed, sometimes not (depending time available and whether just for me, etc., ) and I am happy with the results. Might look into the parboiled rice thing, but the methods given above always give me a good result, asnd they are so versatile. Cheers Waaza

all good points anzu. The pan needs a little consideration and your comments are spot on. I mentioned that it would take several goes to get it right, and for the reasons you mention. It always fills me with dred when I have to work in someone else's kitchen, however well equipped it is. As you say, cookers/ranges vary so much, not to mention the pans. I use heavy cast iron pans and electric/halogen hobs. I would prefer gas, though I have liked Aga's 'til recently. I take your point about the dirty water, I do throw the first lot away immediately, as it gets merky very quickly, subsequent washes take longer, as you say. I use hot water, don't know if this makes a difference. If it sits in water, the starch will start to leach out, causing it to get murky again. I don't know about the vitamins on imported rice, maybe we will be enlightened. The stuff I buy looks very clean, so either the exporters are improving, or the basmati rice does not come from the Indian SC. I know there are many imposters. Also, I had some polished rice from Pakistan, can't say I liked it, it had a strange texture. cheers Waaza

Hi Grub, for you....cooking rice I will start by saying that cooking rice is both an art and a science, but if you understand the principles and control the variables, it's just a science, that is, demonstrable. Everyone seems to have their own methods, but tried and tested methods show that there is a way which produces excellent results every time. Firstly, we must discuss water content, of the 'dry' rice and the cooked rice, for all we are doing when we cook rice is pump it full of water. How this is accomplished determines the end result. Most rice contains about 60% water when fully cooked, but only about 10% (in round numbers) when dry, therefore we need to add about 50% water. That’s the easy bit, so a cup of rice needs a cup of water to cook it, and fully absorb it. Now, how many books have you seen (or instructions on packets) where they suggest two cups of water to one cup of rice? they are wrong. However, if one is to use an ordinary pan to cook the rice, we must expect a slight loss of water by evaporation. Next I must discuss whether to wash the rice. In the US, rice has added vitamin dust on the outside, so if you wash the rice, you wash away the vitamins. However, rice will taste better, be lighter and less sticky if it is washed, it is subtle, but can be detected. I don't always wash my rice and get perfectly acceptable results, if slightly more robust grains. Some people suggest soaking the grains, but I never do. When the grains are soaked, some water gets inside. I prefer not to soak, so that when the rice is being cooked, what goes into the grain is flavoured water, not the murky stuff the rice would be sitting in if soaked, but its up to you. So, to cook rice, choose a suitable pan, easily big enough to hold the swollen grains when cooked, and with a good fitting lid. You will also need two thicknesses of kitchen foil. This is to put over the pan. It keeps the steam in, reducing water loss. Take the rice and wash it if you like, and place in a sieve to drain and dry a bit, no water should remain. In the pan, place a little ghee or oil, (butter may burn!) and heat to medium high. Depending on the recipe, add very thinly sliced onion (use half an onion and slice it in at 90 degrees to the top/bottom, ie latitudinal rather than longitudinal if the south pole is the root end). As it is frying add spices according to the recipe, this could be whole spices or coarsely ground, but watch for burning. After a minute, add the rice, stir carefully to coat all the grains, and heat for a couple minutes whilst stirring. Now add liquid, either plain water, or stock, again according to the recipe, but make sure it is nearly boiling, or just boiled. Add it carefully to the pan, a little steam could be generated as the water hits the hot pan. Add enough water/stock to cover the rice by half an inch. This is very important, only half an inch. This extra half inch of water is lost during cooking, it is always half an inch, regardless of how much rice you are cooking, believe me. Now add any veg, such as peas and mushrooms, if appropriate. Also add any colouring agents such as saffron (best to soak this in hot water first) or turmeric. Now the important things: Bring the water/stock to a boil, and break up any rice balls that may have formed, with a fork. Place the two thicknesses of foil over the pan, and put the lid on, ensuring no (or very little) steam escapes. Now turn down the heat to very low. You will have to experiment a little to get this exactly right, but with a little effort, after a few goes, you will get it right every time. Now leave it for twenty minutes. Do not lift the lid, I'll repeat that, do not lift the lid (bet you do the first time! ), do not add any more water, even if it looks dry. The rice is steaming, it needs this process to finish the cooking. After twenty minutes, you can lift off the lid, and if you have added any aromatics, just breathe in the aroma, heavenly. Either cover the pan again and keep warm in a low oven, or serve when ready. The rice should be light and fluffy, with no water left at the bottom of the pan, there should be no burnt bits either, indicating too low a temperature or too high a temperature respectively. A little practice and you will get perfect results every time. This is the way to make boiled rice and pilaus, the biryani pilau is much more complicated, so that can be another recipe. Choose the ingredients carefully to accompany your main dish/es, some may only need lightly spiced or even herbed rice, others can handle more robust flavours. One of my favorites is lemon rice, perfect for fish/prawn dishes, even some chicken dishes. As a final note, the method above works for basmati rice, other rices may need different cooking times. cheers Waaza

how can I break the news, Grub? Neither Madras or Phall are real curries. Sure, there are dishes from Madras, but no dish that I know of is 'a Madras', and AFAIK, phall is pure imagination. I'll go through a typical 'Indian restaurant' menu, and destroy the myths for you. Anything Balti does not exist in India, it is a name given by certain kinds of restaurant owners who tried to differentiate their food from normal 'Indian' food. What is offerd is usually the same old stuff served in a little wok, or sometimes, a bucket (I'm told balti means bucket in some Indian languages!!) Others will claim Balti derives from Baltistan, which is supposed to be in norther Pakistan, though I've never found it on a map. My eldest son is in N Pakistan at the moment, so he can have the mission.... Bhuna we have dealt with, as you will now know, it means to fry, and is usually a dry dish, made with meat that is able to be quickly cooked, like fillet steak (though not necessarily beef...oops). So there could be many kinds of bhuna dishes, chicken is nice. Biryani is a type of pilau rice dish, but taken (IMHO, and of other gastronomers) to the pinnacle of rice cookery. It is made using either raw or partially cooked rice, and raw or partially cooked meat/fish. It was not originally a vegetarian dish, and used by the cooks as an example of their (considerable) culinary expertise. It is characterised by the layering of rice and meat, and cooking again, on dum (more about this technique later) with very fragrant ingredients, a truely awesome dish. Originating in Persia, probably, it means 'fry before cooking' in Persian (is that old Persian or Farsi??), but that suggests the rice is fried before it is cooked (in water). I will give my thoughts to you on rice cooking, all will become clear, then, I hope. Bombay not a unique dish, but suggesting 'from this noble city' (now called Mumbai, so all those menus will have to be changed...not!) Ceylon another one out of date (now called Sri Lanka, of course). The curries from Sri Lanka are usually quite different, and use roasted spice mixes, discussed elsewhere. Just as Indian dishes, one could not have a single 'Ceylon' dish, there are so many different individual ones. dhansak a Parsi dish, made from lamb/mutton (though chicken is used) containing lentils (the Parsi might use several kinds, maybe as many as seven types) and fenugreek leaves, mint, spinach, aubergine, squash and a large number of spices. The often used potato is a recent addition, I think, as is tomato. Often eaten with brown rice, and kebab, for Sunday lunch by the Parsi. dopiaz meaning two onions, though some will say two kinds of onions, onions added twice, once for the gravy and others added whole as vegetables, and some say any dish with meat and vegetables. I've found that most names of Indian dishes are very confusing, as many names are used for the same dish, or many dishes can have the same name. Just what is a bhaji? or a salan, or even yakni? different strokes for different folks. All very confusing for the non-Indian. Anyway, believe it or not, a dopiaz, usually made from lamb, though chicken is often used, is a kind of korma (see below). jalfrezi even I am a little confused here, I am told it is an Anglo-Bengali dish, made by Bengalis for the British in Bengal. It is supposed to be a stir fry dish, and is quite dry, and hot with whole green chilli. Meat which is quickly cooked is usually used, like chicken or prawn. karahi quite popular in India at one time, it is the name of the wok-like vessel used to cook this type of dish. It is unlikely to be a specific dish, and I am inclined to put into the same kind of 'pidgeon-hole' as balti dishes. Maybe that is a little unkind? Korma not the insipid pathetic mild dish found in 'Indian restaurants', by a method of cooking (cf bhuna). Korma means to braise, or a braising dish. To braise a meat (in this case) we need a little fat and a little water-based ingredient. The meat is never covered completely, (as in a stew) but the top half of the meat joint is allowed to cook uncovered in liquid, as it does so, certain chemical reactions take place (called Maillard reactions, more of that later) which allow the meat to brown. To brown all the meat, the braising dish must be shaken from time to time. The cooking is long, and at a low heat, in an oven (or on dying embers with more on the lid of the cooking vessel, which is usually 'sealed' with a ribbon of pastry/bread dough). The range of different kormas is huge (probably the biggest group of moist-heat cooked dishes) and not necessarily mild, one dish uses more chillies than in a vindaloo! Some other well-known dishes are in this group. Madras not a dish, by suggestive of dishes from around Madras (Chennai) Malayan, no comment, obviously anything with fruit and coconut milk! Masala meaning spice, it has come to mean just about anything from dry spice mix, as in garam masala, to a gravy, such as CTM. methi true dishes with fenugreek herb used as a major flavouring agent. pathia a true dish, I think originally Parsi, usually made with prawns (also called shrimp in the US, BTW if you asked for shrimp around here you would be given something else, we are famous for our shrimp..not prawns) A sweet and sour dish, some say with a Chinese influence, although it is not a 'sweet and sour sauce' type (see chasnidhar) rogan josh this dish, a true dish from Kashmir and Jammu, though others lay claim to it, is a type of korma, and is made with lamb, mutton, goat or chimaera. It is often made as a deep red-coloured dish, the colour being derived from a number of very red ingredients (none of which is tomato, by the way). Some followers of certain religions do not use onions/garlic in this dish, but use asafoetida instead. A very good dish, full of flavour and very warming in the winter months in K&J. vindaloo you know all about this one.... this list is not exhaustive, there are hundreds never seen on an 'Indian resaurant's 'menu. so there you have it, I may have left out a few, so if you have any others in mind, let me know, sorry about the phall and madras (well, I'm not, you may be ), there are much better dishes to try, IMHO. I tried a 'phall' once, it was just chilli powder in ghee, nuff said! I have left out tandoori/kebabs/kofta, vegetable dishes and the ubiquitous CTM. If you want to creat a CTM yourself, I will give you all the neccessary info on the techniques you could employ, but as we all know, CTM is not an Indian dish. cheers Waaza Grub, watch this spice, sorry space, for 'all you wanted to know about rice cooking'....

excellent post, Grub, and I am happy that things worked out so well, good on ya. The notes were added to help explain why things were done, and hopefully convey the feeling that the method was based on sound culinary and scientific priciples; what was included applies to all other dishes, as the science is the same. Once we learn about why we do it, and understand it, it all seems to make sence, and our cooking improves accordingly, IMHO. To answer the points you raise: 'roasting' the spices...... if you have one, use a heavy pan, I use a cast iron frying pan (skillet). It distributes the heat well, and is less prone to draughts. The heat needs to be quite high, as you found. Sniffing the capsaicin-ladened aroma is not to be repeated, best to open a window or use an efficient fume hood. The spices look fine, but I would suggest you leave the fenugreek in for 10 seconds, then remove to a cold ring to stop the roasting asap. The point you make about the star anise is useful. We roast the spices to produce other flavours (with coriander, cumin and fenugreek, maybe chilli). There are known chemical reactions that are induced that change the flavour to produce a 'smokey' aroma, to replace the lack of these flavours from the pork, as we are not taking the meat to a high temperature. In the case of star anise, these flavours are not formed (or if they are, to a much lesser extent), the aniseed-like aroma is due a chemical called anethol(e), and is present in other aniseed-flavoured spices and herbs. The anethol doesn't have (very) reactive chemical groups, so will not take part in any major flavour changes. So heating it only drives off the flavour, not change it, so it actually makes little difference whether you add the star anise to the roasting spices, or after, if you roast it, it may lose some flavour, but that is all. This hopefully explains why 'roasting' spices is necessary for some dishes, but not all, it is not to be applied universally or else all your curries will have a 'roasted nutty' flavour, although I think it common in Sri Lanka (I hope to talk to a local Sri Lankan masterchef about this soon). You could add more aniseed, but it should be enough, the reasons why it was not could be due to the age of the spice, or you used a bit lacking in flavour, or the star's 'leg' was small, but at least you are aware of it, and can adjust it next time. BTW, these are some of the variables which we have to try to control in cooking, and maintain it as an art, as well as a science. Its all part of the cooking experience, and in my book, its the experience which really shows in controlling the variables to get a consistant product. It helps if the recipe is robust and rugged. Let me explain. If we develop a new recipe (or adapt an existing one, more like it) do we test it for ruggedness and robustness? These terms have similar, but different meanings. Robustness deals with internal factors, such as a chef's intentional change (to a small, but insignificant degree, eg will using aniseed instead of fennel alter the flavour?). Ruggedness is more important, as it deals with external factors, including different: chefs ovens/ranges ingredients suppliers A recipe is quite often not a validated approach to optimization, but an historic document. It is usually 'this is what I did', rather than 'this is the best that can be done' (given the circumstances!) So testing the robustness and ruggeness is important, IMHO, so that we can get the best from our efforts. When you marinate the meat, stir to thoroughly mix, then pat it down to squash it all in the dish, so that the liquid comes above all the meat. If the amount of meat and shape/size of pan don't allow this, then I would agree that more liquid can be added. If this means more liquid is left over, add it in about two tablespoons at a time during the bhuna process, rather than all in one go. What you are trying to achieve is to stop the burning of the spices, so adding water (or water-based liquids) reduces the temperature quickly enough. BTW, I understand bhuna means frying, so the much loved British/Indian restarant dish such as lamb bhuna should be dry, not with a sauce! Hopefully you will learn that there are only a few techniques used in Indian cookery, this is an important one. The point about the oil and golden onions is fine. What you have found is that when the onions are done, the pan contains only oil, which is spot on. There should be no water left. This is important as the mean temperature will not rise above that of the boiling point of water (100°C, 212°F), and therefore the meat will not brown. It is also important for the oil extraction of the 'woody' spices, like star anise, cassia, cardamom and cloves. At the end of the cooking process, you end up with, essentially, an emulsion of oil and water, that stage is arrived at when the large bubbles of steam reduce in size, and small oil droplets can be seen in the gravy (I call it a gravy, as the meat juices are used in its preparation, rather than a sauce which (in French cooking at least, and British/Indian restaurants in particular) usually has no connection with the meat/fish it is served with. This is one reason, IMHO, why such restaurants can't make a decent curry. You say that your guests and you really enjoyed the dish, and yet you still have concerns, thats dedication, good on ya. Please post any changes you might make, and why you made them. So, what next? cheers Waaza

to Grub, as promised: Goan pork vindaloo (vin d'alhos) According to Waaza, please copy the entire recipe, do not change anything and credit me if you pass it on, thanks. Ingredients for 4 people Heat a large shallow pan on medium high heat. (1) add 1 tbsp whole Indian coriander (2) 1 tsp white cumin (3) 1 tsp brown/black mustard seed (4) 1 tsp black pepper corns 6 - 10 lightly crushed dry red sanam chillies, or to taste.(5) heat until just smoking, then add 1/2 tsp cracked fenugreek seeds.(6) heat for another 10 seconds only, and take off the heat and cool. when the seeds and chillies are cold, grind to a medium fine powder. Add to the grinder 1 tsp garam masala (7) and 1 segment of star anise.(8) Place the ground spice mix in a bowl, then add 1 tbsp oil, 120ml (4 fl oz or 1/2 cup) cider vinegar(9) and 7 cloves of garlic and 1 tbsp fresh grated ginger. mix all together, then add about 700g of diced stewing pork(10) so that all the pork is totally submerged in the marinade. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap, and place in the fridge for 24 hours.(11) To cook the vindaloo: Heat 80ml (3 fl oz, 1/3 cup) cooking oil to medium heat in pan meanwhile, cut two medium sized onions into 3mm dice(12) add to pan and cook on medium heat for about 20 mins, until onions are golden(14) strain pork from excess marinade and add to pan, maintaining medium heat.(15) Continue cooking until the contents of the pan dry up.(16) Add rest of marinade, and cook until dry once more. Add a little water, and continue the bhuna process.(17) Continue with this for about 5 minutes. Now add 1/2 tsp of ground turmeric, and fry for 10 seconds only(18) then add water or pork stock to cover all the pork.(19) Place a lid on the pan, turn down the heat to simmer for 1 hour.(20) Uncover the pan, and allow the gravy to thicken according to requirements, but do not boil.(21) Serve with rice, or potatoes, or both, and a strong greens-based dish, like spinach. Notes 1) this is to dry roast the spices, where the heating produces flavours which are similar to those from roasted meats. As the pork will not be roasted, it is important that these flavours are developed. 2) Indian coriander is the slightly larger, lighter coloured 'rugby-ball' shaped seed, said to have a better flavour than the (usually) Moroccan cultivar, but it really makes little difference. 3) Use the white cumin, and not the so-called black cumin, which has a very different flavour. 4) Or use the European white/yellow, not Indian, but similar effect. 5) Really to taste, if you prefer it even hotter, use the very hot Birdseye type chilli, but they must be dried, fresh will not produce the heat quickly enough for the marinade. 6) Try to find the cracked fenugreek used for making pickles, or very lightly grind whole seeds, be very careful not to roast these for more than 10 seconds, as they will become very bitter. 7) Make your own by grinding green cardamom, cassia, cloves and mace 8) Remove the seed if there is one, it is tasteless. Use just one 'leg' of the star. 9) Goans would use vinegar made from toddy, a kind of alcohol made from palm sugar, but a mild cider vinegar works well, as would rice vinegar. I use a mix of acetic acid, red wine and fresh elderberry juice, stored for a year. 10) Use stewing pork, which needs slow long cooking. 11) The pork will absorb some of the liquid, making it juicier, and adsorb some of the aromatics from the spices and garlic/ginger, giving a deeper flavour. 12) The onions need to be cut into small dice so that the water can be driven out without burning, and leave the pan with just oil, so the temperatures can rise to those which start to brown the meat, thus adding flavour. 14) heat the onions (cut and cook immediately, to reduce bitterness) and cook on medium heat until golden, this takes about twenty minutes, there should not be any black bits on the edges of the onion, remove them if you have any, and turn down the heat a little. The heat will depend on the amount of onion, the size, shape and construction of the pan, and the ambient temperature/draughts, but with time, you'll find just the right combination, believe me. 15) It is important not to increase the heat or the pork will shrivel and become tough as it squeezes out the marinade you so carefully bathed it in! 16) This is the so-called bhuna method, it’s a way of 'frying' the aromatics to hot oil extract the flavours without burning them, add a little water when it looks (or smells) as though it might burn. This gives a deeper, slightly smoky flavour to the dish. 17) Continue heating and adding water a few times to complete the bhuna process. 18) Turmeric will burn very quickly, so watch it very carefully, but it still needs a little oil extraction for those vanilla-type notes to come through, and to extract the colour. 19) This is a stew-type dish, all the pork needs to be covered. 20) The water or stock (if you have any) must only be heated to simmering point, that is, just a bubble now and again, if the liquid gets any hotter, the meat will shrivel and become tough, and rather tasteless. 21) You could take the lid off sooner if you think the gravy is going to be too thin, or you could remove the cooked meat, and reduce the gravy on its own. Add salt to taste at the end only, just prior to serving. You could add some finely cut coriander leaf for garnish if you wish, but I suggest if preparing for a dinner party when several dishes are being offered, you put a very large fresh chilli on the rim of the serving dish, to indicate its pungency! Note, although I have used many chillies, they do blend in very well, the overall effect is one of total glow rather than stingingly hot. Enjoy. cheers Waaza

a good idea, anzu, but then why just vindaloo? Also, in most UK 'Indian restaurants', as they are run by non-Christians, the meat would never be pork, so, as Grub has found, the UK vindaloo is that in name only, everything else being way wide of the mark. Personally, I think it is just lack of knowledge, most restaurants are/were run by Pakistanis, Bangladeshis or African Indians, and therefore probably had no notion of what a vindaloo was. Same goes for many dishes, I'm afraid. (bulking out is quite OK, I must admit to a bit of personal bulking out myself, oh salad days ) cheers Waaza still working on the recipe......

We've probably been at it a lot longer than you, but it seems everyone is very willing to help you, I hope because they know that dong it properly gives the best results. All I can suggest is don't try to absorb it all at once, try a dish, and try to perfect it. That way, hopefully you will learn something about the Indian way of cooking. As in the learning of most techniques, the beginning is always going to be the hardest, but keep trying, and keep learning. As an aside, there is a saying about giving a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him to fish, and you fed him for a life-time. I would add, teach him all you know about fish, and he will be able to teach his children, etc. If he understands fish, he will understand fishing, and cooking, and the pleasures of life Potatoes do go well with strong flavoured gravies, but would not be thought of as authentic. It has been suggested that they are in UK vindaloo's because of the confusion over the word aloo, meaning potato. Of course, in this case it means garlic. So I suggest, if you want it authentic, cook the spuds separately. You might like to get hold of a copy of Camelia Panjabi's cook book, "50 great curries of India" ISBN 1 85626 128 X (hard back, although available in softback). She explains souring agents (and colouring agents and many other things) very well, IMHO. Cooking Indian food is not difficult, it just seems that way to start with. Please try to understand why things are done the way they are, and you will get an insight into most cuisines of the world, for most techniques are covered. Lastly, I'll post a recipe (with notes) here, that I think you will find gives good results. I sometimes make two versions of the same dish, using slightly different methods to compare the two, side by side on the plate, it can be very revealing. Give me a little while to write it out for you. keep on trying cheers Waaza

I think the addition of tomatoes is a recent thing. In Indian cooking, they are used as souring agents, but using passata (or even tinned tomatoes) is going to add sweetness, not the sour tang intended. And believe it or not, tomatoes are not as common an ingredient as you might think. I agree with all that anzu and episure have said. Your original recipe called for yoghurt and coconut milk as well. You may well appreciate that that recipe was adjusted for personal preference. I did not mention it at the time as it would seem as though I was saying the recipe is totally inappropriate, I wanted you to carry on your quest. There is no problem with adding tomatoes, of course, its up to you, but Western toms will change the whole emphasis of this dish, which is decidely sour. I have tried it with tamarind and find it not to my liking in this dish. A vindaloo should be hot and sour with quite a light gravy. The chillies should blend in with the spices, and mellow a little. You have high-lighted something which happens all too often in published recipes. The author tends to offer their version of a dish, and adapt it at will. No problem with that except that most lose sight of the original intentions. Many writers are authors primarily, and not cooks, so they have more of a bias towards what will sell rather than the preservation of the authenticity of a dish. Who wants books full of the same recipes, anyway? Unfortunately, there is much plagerism in cook book land, so the inclusion of tomatoes (or potatoes) in a vindaloo recipe because the author prefers it that way quickly turns a preference into a norm. What I would say is that the vinegar is there to preserve the meat and to 'cut through' the fatty pork (much like duck and orange). By all means add tomatoes, but you stand a chance of changing the qualities of the dish, and run the risk of turning it into something else, which you might prefer, but others may not. Why not try it without tomatoes, if you do not like it, then add some, a little at a time; and tell us how you got on. best of luck cheers Waaza