JohnL

I don't know why--but for some reason the first question that came to my mind was regarding their policy re: malo-lactic fermentation.

Very sensible turkie! I have never been to a dinner party where the host berated anyone because they didn't eat all their..... One needn't make any excuses for not eating anything. also-nothing wrong with just saying I don't really care for.... but I will have more of....." My wife doesn't eat red meat--if that is the main course she eats the veggies and the salad etc. She also shouldn't have to declare--I don't like meat or I don't eat meat or I am allergic to meat. and Hosts should never question a guest as to why they didn't eat something. Hosts also should not have to issue a questionnaire the week before a dinner party--or have to prepare a wide ranging menu or foods. basically, between appetizers, main course and sides and desert there should be enough to eat for any and everyone.

I think you answered your own question. The US has a very active and expansive media. a sizable health profession and all sorts of special interest groups and a large populace of citizens with fairly sizable incomes. Combine this and you have a volatile mix. Real problems are expanded and blown up to seismic proportions. People don't like taking responsibility for themselves--human nature--so any problem they may have (or in many cases are easily convinced they have) that can be attributed to something or someone else is readily welcomed. The basic human malady that once was attributed to the "vapors"--basically--"I don't feel well today." Is readily explained by our media --a poll--a new book by a renown "expert"--etc etc etc. and there are solutions available--books, TV and radio shows. I would say we have these things in abundance compared to the rest of the world. Instead of applying some basic journalistic principles and skepticism and providing good information, our media loves to scream dire warnings at us. "Studies show dust may be killing you--news at eleven." We are bombarded with all sorts of messages whose prime motivating factor is to get our money. A problem like obesity is first blown out of proportion-- "We are all fat." Then some hysteria is applied: "Obesity is killing us" Then comes the solution (s): "new easy diet available--just buy the book or the tape or the supplements..." Kids listless in school--must be a food allergy. Kids too active in class--must be a "syndrome" There's a book to explain it and solve it or a drug or a diet to fix it! How did our civilization survive in the days before Oprah and Dr Phil and Dr Atkins and...... !!? Now there are elements of truth to all this--but these are amped up, hyped up wildly out of proportion and beyond reality. So we now have an entire multibillion dollar industry around dieting. Guess what--it doesn't work--it is self perpetuating. The answer is basically very simple (and very inexpensive) one can avoid obesity (in most cases) by simply eating in moderation and getting some exercise. So too we have the allergy industry. Works synergistically with the healthfood industry and the diet industry. After all why should anyone have to sneeze occasionally or not feel perfect every day. we have a cadre of experts to provide the answers and an equal number of experts with solutions. So a basic real problem --allergies are real problems--is blown up out of proportion--and a lot of people are making a lot of money.

The Burgundy Wine Company is actually at 143 West 26th Street (between 6th/7th Ave.) It's a great store, and the people there very friendly and helpful. According to their website they have tastings every day, but I know for sure that they have them on Saturdays. The one in Chelsea Market is called Chelsea Wine Vault, which has a large selection of wines from various regions. ← Yeesh--you are right! Both are good sources. also all the big majors here have wide selections: Sherry, Morell. Acker etc etc.

Moore brothers will be a welcome addition here. However I would argue that they fill a very small niche--an interesting one at that. They are not known for their depth and breadth of Burgundy or any particular wines they are known for their own often unique selections much like kermit Lynch on the West Coast and the Rosenthal Wine Shop here.

The Burgundy Wine Company in the Chelsea market specializes in Burgundy and Oregon Pinot.

Any wine meant to be consumed within a short time after bottling really has no excuse not to go to a non traditional cork enclosure. The problem --yet to be resolved--is the impact of screw tops etc upon a wine's aging over long periods of time.

It seems to me that this is a fairly recent issue. As a kid, I do not remember this being such a big deal. I also remember that bad behavior was not tolerated to the degree it is today. (not only kids but adult). Why does any parent feel the need to bring their children into a bar, cocktail lounge or any establishment that is clearly in business for adult patronage? (yes there are some exceptions--Busboys's anecdote, some vacation places etc) IMOP--bars are for people 21 and older. Not--"between the ages of two and twenty!" Again--should adults be allowed to drink at playgrounds or children's restaurants? even if they are well behaved? cooing and gurgling in a fine restaurant are inappropriate behavior--one sits distracted wondering when the little tyke is going to spit up or start bawling. and I gotta say--I have had instances where one could smell dirty diapers etc. also--in restaurants where kids have left all sorts of debris and half eaten food on the floor around tables. I have no problem when I am eating in a burger joint or family restaurant--in fact I expect it! It is where I do not expect it that creates a problem for me. I must say--I am talking infants and very small children. I have seen families with children who exhibited adult behavior in restaurants--that's the key--it is no problem when children act like adults in adult places--that is they sit in their seats and make no noise above the level of anyone else in the place--then I don't even notice them and the "fit in." Adult places are for adults. family places are for adults and kids and so on. what is wrong with that. why must parents insist that kids be welcome anywhere they want to go? Sometimes you just can't reasonably "have it all."

good point. However that does not make it appropriate. They also allow dogs and other pets in restaurants in other countries. and smoking and.... Why even here at home in some places you don't need a shirt or shoes!!! Really--if someone wants to have a family pub or bar--I would argue its appropriateness but I could live with it! As long as it was clear to all that the establishment encouraged the presence of children!

I agree totally! Definitely try a Mario's pie. with or without dinner! also-- I posted about another find in Mt Vernon--Johnny's. I bring this up because there was a discussion on another web site about the pizza at Full Moon and someone posted that Johnny's reminded them of the old days at Full Moon. (there is some debate as to the new full moon vs the old). IMOP--Johnny's is about as good as I have had in a while. They are right off the Cross County Parkway.

Both Iron Horse and Strega are what I would call American Bistro's. Iron Horse IMOP is a special place--great very accommodating staff and the owner chef Phil McGrath is there 99% of the time--his wife fills in on the few times he is not. Food is very very good--solid with enough inventiveness to add some real interest--very fresh top quality ingredients. also-the wine list is on of the more interesting and easily navigable lists around and well priced. another suggestion--Blue Hill at Stone barns is about fifteen or twenty minutes away--we often have dinner at the bar or in the warmer weather --on the patio! Crabtree Kittle House is also close by--off the saw Mill Pkway. enjoy!

It's been a while for me--I am planning to go in the next couple of weeks--I have been eating there for a long time--twenty five years or longer. I have gotten some good reports from reliable friends who have been there recently. If ever there were an old war horse--Mario's is it! It is often overlooked--as it seems to have blended in with the streetscape. Solid Neapolitan cooking. I believe that a lot of people are "dazzled" a bit by the hype based on Dominick's schtick! Family style, no menu, long lines etc.--"It must be good!" Though when I lived in the neighborhood and was "known" or with the "known" I had a number of really fine (and reasonably priced) meals there. Also the pizza at Mario's (not on the menu) is not not be missed. Ed Levine has a nice anecdote/write up in his "Pizza, a Slice of Heaven" book. The key is to order a pie before dinner--as an appetizer! or as I have done many times-- a pie to go after dinner! (the ride back to anywhere is shorter and more enjoyable. basic pie or with sausage is the way to go. They hate if you just sit down and order only a pie!

IMOP-- A bar (and many restaurants) are for adults. I would ask those parents who think it is ok to take a small child to a bar if they would mind then if their baby sitter took that child to a bar while they had a cocktail? The problem as I see it--is one of sacrifice. When one becomes a parent they have a responsibility that requires some sacrifice. That means --maybe--if they can not get someone to look after junior--then maybe-- they should forego having a few beers or a cocktail or two every time they want one. Somehow "kid friendly" or "family oriented" feels comfortable applied to the word restaurant. I have a hard time with "kid friendly" bar, tavern or cocktail lounge. And that is really what we are looking at here. Not only is taking a kid to a bar or cocktail lounge not a good atmosphere for a child of any age but it is disrespectful of other adult patrons. Regardless of their particular child's behavior--my idea of well behaved may not be yours etc. So I won't complain about kids behavior at a family oriented restaurant--but at any establishment that is clearly adult focused..... Now--I would admit that there are "crossover" restaurants where one can have a cocktail or a glass of wine and a child could have a burger and a coke--also places that have outdoor seating. These places are fine for this--I have no problem (if the kids sit in one place, are not anymore noisy than the adults in attendance etc). Fine. I do have a hard time with parents who feel entitled to take their kids any and everywhere they feel like it whenever they feel like it. I have been in too many situations where in a fine restaurant my table had to endure cooing and gurgling from a baby at the next table.--I love babies (and cats!) by the way. But at a bar or cocktail lounge? Somehow I don't think that mom or dad would drink a beer or have a cocktail at a playground either--or feel comfortable if a childless adult sat on a bench at their local playground and had a few. or perhaps if I BYOB at the local Chuckie Cheese! What's inappropriate for the mother goose is inappropriate for the gander! (or something like that --sorry that's the best I can do here).

Great picks especially the pinot with the salmon. I would have some potential problems with the Coulee though. This is a wine that needs some time/age IMOP-many younger versions are ok to drink but really do not reveal a lot of the wine's real pleasures. It may work really well or maybe not so well with the lobster dish in question. To my palate Brad's Meursault is close to perfect for this. The Coulee is a really interesting thought--it does have the herbal thing--this wine can be very complex--and the acidity but I think it might not "stand up" to the richness of the dish-- I would think that it would be more recommendable with a simple steamed or grilled lobster (and a bit extravagant--I saw the wonderful '02 on sale for eighty bucks a bottle). I just had the 1990 and all I can say is--wow--absolutely magnificent.

My wife and I dine frequently in Pleasantville (it is on the way from NYC to our country home). FYI--most restaurants in the area close on Sundays around 9-10 pm. IMOP one of the best (mentioned here by another poster) anywhere is Iron Horse grill which is unfortunately closed Sundays. However you have a lot of pretty good options right in Pleasantville. All open for dinner Sunday. Strega is New American cooking and very good (second to Iron Horse). Mediterraneo is a solid italian--we have had some good meals here. Hanada Sushi--is ok as well. I would say middle of the pack sushi joint. Jackson and Wheeler is a possibility though they have a new chef--very inconsistent though you could eat well here if careful.

While I agree that Roberto's can be "as good as it gets" and Dominick's is just too much trouble (it is quirky and if you are not "from the neighborhood"....) I always go back to Mario's-- it is to me just a really comfortable place to enjoy good food that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and is overshadowed by its more glamorous or quirky neighbors.

I am not sure that the generalizations and stereotypes of ten or more years ago apply today. The terms plonk and high end are used but I am not sure what these mean exactly. Also fine wine and cost are two different things--more so today than ever. To me a wine "dork" or "geek" is someone who would revel in finding an obscure high quality wine that sells for a reasonable amount of money. They like the hunt and of course, the trophy. It is not so easy to apply price anymore. In my experience a high powered, self assured, confident man-- or woman is often an asshole. (excuse my use of this coarse term) when it comes to wine and many other things. I have met many many people (men and women) who are very successful and are very much into wine. For the most part they are wonderful people who love sharing their knowledge and passion and they are appreciative of wines that span a wide range of cost. They are far from snobs and love a good Muscadet as much as a fine old Bordeaux recognizing the benefits and pleasures of each. Most of the people who I would say are snobs are snobs out of insecurity--this crosses income demos. Men do tend to be "enthusiasts" about things like wine, stereo systems, cars/automobiles, hunting etc in greater numbers than women but I am noticing women involved in these things in greater numbers than ever. It should be noted that conversely, women seem to be drawn to other things in greater numbers than men.--antiqueing? flea markets.--there are plenty of guys into these things though. But I would say that when it comes to appreciation--men and women can enjoy each other's passions. maybe they enjoy them in different ways. Women and men are sensitive to different messages and respond in different ways. marketers know this and exploit it.--good sense on their part. The battle of the labels IMOP--is really most torrid in the lower to mid priced wines ((not plonk). Let's remember (as mentioned in the article) distinctive well made wines from Randal Graham's many offerings to Ch Mouton have used label art to market/promote their wines. Also Kenwood and others. Wines like Fat Bastard, Red Bicyclette and Yellowtail are battling for the five to fifteen dollar price range--that is everyday drinking wines. One may be critical of any or all of them but they are certainly not "plonk." They are well made wines of varying degrees of interest. It is not as important as where these grapes are from but rather the wine is "designed" to be user friendly and inexpensive. If one wants a more "expressive" wine then: Wine making methods have improved today so that there are many very good wines from France -vin du pays and Italy (especially some very interesting whites), Spain even Germany is starting to produce some really nice rieslings--all around ten bucks on shelves in this country. I have also started to see some interesting well made wines from Eastern Europe. If I were having oysters then yes maybe a 1983 Domaine de Chevalier Blanc would be nice (a transcendent experience) but I really enjoy them with any crisp dry white--muscadet or sancerre or a Chenin Blanc from the Loire or Washington State. I think women tend to have less ego and posture less --they may be self assured but reticent about blowing their own horn. I see this at wine tastings--I would say that they are no less appreciative of fine wines-- regardless of the cost. I have seen women be more receptive to discussing wines in wine shops than many men and more willing to try new wines (even wines that cost a lot). They love to taste new wines as much as any men. They are less likely to prattle on about "killer juice." (but so are many of the male wine connoisseurs I know). maybe the stereotypes and generalizations are changing --they tend to do that! maybe there is a lot of gray area and crossover. When I attended the IWC level four advanced certificate course in wine and spirits and there were more women than men in attendance and most of the instructors were women! I do know that right now there are more well made wines from more places at all price points available and we--men and women will enjoy them (maybe in our own ways).

Great stuff! thanks Just goes to show you--it's all about human nature and we are all human regarldess of race, creed or socio economic status! also at the bottom of the Yahoo page is a link to a piece: from the Guardian (UK) entitled: "Japanese Grab Girdles as Obesity Crisis Looms" priceless! It also reminds me of a bit by Richard Jenni who did a late nite infomercial touting his new guaranteed to work diet tape. no not a VHS cassette--Scotch tape! "you put it over your mouth to keep the ring dings out!"

Tim As noted earlier in this thread--I believe PatrickS posted some stats. The fastest growing segment of the population for obesity are people with moderate to high incomes. So please explain this if income is a major causal factor in obesity. The notion that one needs money to access a gym in order to exercise is absurd. In fact--I would argue that people who live in inner cities have more playgrounds and athletic fields available for free. Also--historically, kids in big cities "invented" their own games--stickball, stoop ball, hand ball etc that made use of streets and buildings/walls. What about walking--(not to speak of running)? To say that one needs access to a gym, personal trainers, and IBEX machines to exercise is what I believe is too often fodder for an excuse. It is arguable that exercise is more important than diet. I would also argue that any person (save for a few exceptions) regardless of income status who does not want to be obese and is motivated will be able to balance their diet and exercise to at least have some control over their weight. It isn't poor folks who are stuffing their faces at all you can eat buffets in Vegas or on cruise ships.--it is unmotivated people who have little self control. As for the food issue-it is not really food we are talking about it is eating. We (all income levels) are eating too much-- good food or bad--we eat all day long--if everyone would eat less (fewer calories) of what they are currently eating things would start to improve. whether it is MacDonald's supersized meals or lobster poached in butter! fries at Burger King or pommes frites at Balthazar. So first--education is important which leads to motivation and good choices. that's why we are seeing a decrease in smoking and why the Alice waters approach is a good one. I go back to the example I used earlier: In "Supersize Me" two inner city kids who are thin and appear to be in very good physical shape--they are certainly not obese --are interviewed. They say they eat at fast food restaurants a lot. The key--they exercise! If we continue to look for excuses for ourselves and worse--for others--then we will constantly wallow in intellectual debate or worse ill advised programs costing a lot of money that do not work. Finally, availability of good quality food and diversity of items (choices) will improve because there is a market for these things. It has less to do with income than with demand. Witness that many of our poorest neighborhoods are rife with great food. Chinatowns, Little Italy's, latin neighborhoods--so why is there any obesity problem in many of these neighborhoods? There are many neighborhoods where the choices are few and far between but forcing the issue will not work IMOP--just because something is available does not mean people will choose it. farmer's markets and inner city gardens are not growing exponentially because the farmers are forcing us to buy fresh lettuce or people in cities are suddenly deciding to take up gardening as a hobby. When people are ready to change their diets--the food will be there in most cases.

Gee--I didn't mean you should delete anything. (that is really up to you and the managers here at eGullet). I just felt that if we veer off into a political discussion we would be off on a tangent that is really somewhat off topic. There is no question that hunger and poverty are huge political issues. Any discussion would include some reference but this thread was initially dealing with a solution that is education and food and nutrition oriented. In truth I really believe that looking for political causes of hunger and poverty is a discussion with much debate that leaves the realm of food and nutrition and becomes better suited for a forum on politics and political theory. I think we would all agree that no system is perfect--unfortunately poverty and hunger have been existent under many different political/economic system. ...and leave it at that. As for programs like the Alice Waters effort, I believe that these local community based initiatives are really the way to go in targeting issues like obesity because most importantly they involve motivated people getting together and devising solutions that work for their community and their communities socio- economic situations whatever that is rich, poor etc. Whatever the root cause of obesity--IMOP--human behavior can be most easily changed by people's understanding the problem and then "wanting" to change. Education and motivation. We need to have compassion here but there also must be an element of "tough love." In most circumstances people with motivation can do amazing things in the face of adversity. I am sure one could come up with a list of reasons why Alice Waters would not succeed where others with more money and power had failed (sure Alice had some money and some power but I could list many many other community programs started by local people without "big" names). she believed in what she is doing and moved forward. obviously the community is with her. as for the kids Alice is working with--who here would argue that regardless of their social status or economic situation now or in the future, these kids will have a much better chance to grow up to be better more healthy persons and better parents. (at least most of them).

Gee we "solved" the obesity problem and now we are going after poverty!? I would find a discussion of political/economic systems a bit hard to stomach here at eGullet--you know--hard to swallow! Really--IMOP--this isn't the proper forum. but that's just me!

Amylou! You are overloading on NPR --you need a more balanced diet of news from more sources! I listened. IMOP the NPR story is indicative of how wrongheaded well intentioned people can be. The women whose story they used to make a point said she chose to eat a $0.99 burger instead of a salad from her employers salad bar because the salad was something like four dollars a pound. Thus the economic scape goat for obesity. Let's think about this for a second--who eats one pound of salad?--that's a hell of a lot of lettuce! I am looking at a five ounce container of mesclun from Whole Foods--enough for at least two people--five ounces! All that woman does is make excuses for why she is 130 pounds overweight and NPR uses her excuses to establish their thesis that obesity is tied to income. This woman's problem is self control and portion control not lack of money. If she was wealthy does anyone believe for a moment that she would buy a salad or more likely two burgers and some cake? (by the way--check out PatrickS post above--the statistics are just not there). NPR then goes on to explain that lean meat costs more therefore low income folks can't afford it and therefore they are more likely to be obese. This is so patently ridiculous as to render their entire argument useless. It does sound good though--until one examines more closely.

I wouldn't argue with any of the recommendations. I would engage a number of local wine merchants. They all vary in their willingness to help--but each has their own view and agenda. Go when they are not busy. I would also get a good basic book. Karen MacNeill's --"Wine Bible" is IMOP one of the best. It is the most comprehensive and easy to read--she also presents wine in an unbiased manner. The Dummies Guide to Wine by Mary Ewing Mulligan and Ed McCarthy is also very good. Mary runs the International Wine Center here in New York and is a first rate wine educator. also She and Ed (her husband and a wine expert in his own right) just wrote a wonderful book called "Wine Style--using your senses to explore and enjoy wine" which deals with wines of the world from a flavor profile perspective. It is an incredibly good read. I would try Wine Style and One of the other books--Dummies or the Bible. There are a lot of tasting groups and tastings held in New York--you should look into them. Best are in store tastings--most wine shops hold them--they are free and you get a lot of knowledge and taste wine!

I was a newbie a few years ago.I was immensely helped by a gem of a book: The New Tea Companion, A connoisseur's guide" by Jane Pettigrew (it is available at Amazon). It is fun to read and provides not only guidance on all manner of tea and tea service but brewing methods and implements as well as the history of tea and the terminology all in a breezy style (it is a small book packed with great info). I still refer to it. also some good sites recommended--I like Adagio though now I use Upton Tea (uptontea.com) a lot. Their catalog is great--they also offer samplers..

This was a great post--thanks! Eventually, the message about obesity will reach this community--the elementary schools are a good start. parents will become more aware as well. I would bet that the community will come together and help to alleviate this problem. Your post is a good example of how government programs can be well intentioned but never really solve problems that only people/communities can. I would like to see government support redirected to programs that help educate and then help support communities and people to help themselves. You noted that there was a high level of "depression." Too many efforts these days are by the study/statistic crowd who would note that--high level of obesity and high level of depression---ergo let's spend a million bucks and build a permanent government funded circus and comedy club. You are right--these issues like obesity are very complex--I believe that each community rich and poor can --with basic education and some support/help--can deal with them best. I can point to a situation here in NY where a community of poor people organized and solved a housing problem that had eluded the government (state local and city for decades). I keep coming back to perhaps one of the biggest and maybe easiest solutions--exercise. People of all socio economic groups, of all races etc would be helped immensely if they exercised more. A regular walk requires no money and is certainly a good start. (actually the food and diet issue is lessened a great deal if one exercises). If we want "bang for the buck" in dealing with obesity --IMOP--this is where we ought to be focusing a lot of energy--and yes--some money. I keep going back to a scene from "Supersize This" where two thin and obviously in shape inner city kids say they eat at MacDonalds all the time--they obviously play a lot of basketball. I also know a number of rich guys who eat in French restaurants and fancy steak houses all the time--they all play squash regularly. maybe it ain't just about the food or the money. I can' help but think there is at least a minor solution here.