camp_dick

There's an item in today's Standard diary: 'One couple, who found two of their dishes less than adequate, spotted Australian chef Ian Pengelley standing near the door as they left the restaurant. When he asked if their food had been alright, they explained that it hadn't been. "Oh dear," replied Pengelley. "I am sorry. I'll tell the chef".'

And sky high prices. In an uncomfortable room.

The surprise is that Egon Ronay still manages to trade on his name (which, I presume, he bought back off Roy Ackerman?) or that anyone takes seriously a guide produced under the auspices of the venerable emigre, who has done so much to improve the catering standards of British motorway service stations and provincial airports, when - hello! - it's the 21st Century, don't you know, and we have this amazing electronic bush telegraph thingy to elicit a range of up to date opinions. Innit?

Cheers. HB's method seems pretty conventional, compared to Gordon Ramsay in The Times who (to spare you the trouble of vivisting the link) says: ' Risottos normally need lots of last-minute stirring, but not if you boil the rice beforehand, quickly cool it and refrigerate it until required. You can then finish it off with a couple of ladlefuls of stock as your guests enjoy a glass of wine.' There's classy

They bought in @ 33% a few years ago in their orgy of post-BSE diversification. The effectiveness of McD's in acquiring property is demonstrated by the density of Pret in central London: that's one thing they are good at. Now I notice McD's is responding to the expansion of Subway with their own 'freshly made toasted deli sandwiches'. Anyone had one?Thanks, beaker, for the reminder to try Maoz. I nominate Felafel King in Portobello as a concept that deserves to be a chain. It's got the system and a triffic name. It's also got a less-than happy owner, called Schlomo (aka the gumpy falafel baron).

Please can you summarise these rules, or provide a link? Thanks (in anticipation).

I'm grieving because the Famous Walworth Road Cafe - which was genuinely famous because it did serve the best breakfast in South London, as offcially determined by the South London Press, has been taken out and is being turned into a Subway. A great shame...As to the wider discussion, I think Nando's chicken is too cheap and that the piri piri treatment (probably) masks the absence of true chicken flavour. If you're within striking distance of Stockwell, I suggest you try the Portugese caffs down there for the real thing. I loathe Mickey D and BK on principle, but in reality I did have a bit of a McFlurry flirtation over the Summer and I've been having a secret, on/off affair with BK onion rings (but I'm pretty sure it's over now. For now.) You'd have to be certifiable to eat any of their meat though, surely?

Anyone seen any sign of the Alan Yau recipe book, the October publication of which was announced when Yau took over the recipe column in The Times, back in February? Perhaps the great man has been too busy with his various International projects to manage to deliver the manuscript for this proposed book. Or, perhaps, the reality of a recipe book for domestic cooks produced under the auspices of a restaurateur who proudly states that he has never done any cooking himself ('I have people to do that for me') transpired to be rather less exciting than the idea first appeared over lunch @ the Four Seasons (the Park Lane hotel, natch, not the Chinky in Queensway...)

It may be the wrong end of town, but try The Royal Oak, which is an immaculate recreation of an authentic Victorian pub in the London style (i.e.: bar in the middle of the room), within walking distance of Borough Market, and the metropolitan showcase of Harvey's brewery in Lewes. Not only is the beer delicious (*if you like real ale*), but they let you take it - by pint or jug - across the street to Simply Indian, which is a first rate restaurant. Don't be put off is it is completely empty because their business is mostly in home delivery (and they are very successful) but they have a few tables and have recently redecorated, so that now the place is really quite opulent. The menu is the standard British Indian, produced to a high standard. They will return your glasses to the pub (which also serves pretty good, meaty British food, BTW).

The tourist office does a guided walk around 'food loving Louth' (or some such) which I imagine involves a succession of butchers' shops: I'm going to stick my neck out here and declare that Trevor Fairburn's (in Mercer Row) extra sage is the best sausage in town. Jacksons and Lakings (at either end of Eastgate) have their fans and Chris Fenwick talks a good sausage, but is inconsistent. My all time favourite shop in Louth is Dales (on Eastgate, along from the cheese shop and Jacksons), the poulterer and fruiterer. I guess the idea was that, when game was out of season, they sold fresh fruit. I heard that they sold their yard in the middle of town for residential development and aren't too bothered these days, but it was the best place to buy pigeons and pheasant, which are so overstocked in Lincolnshire these days that they grow to quite a size, so are not necessarily sold by the brace. Of course, the poaching tradition continues (try the Boar's Head up by the cattle market) although the newer sport of roadkill is probably more popular Many of those Lincs market towns - Horncastle, Woodhall, Alford - are similar: great butchers, a good fish and chip shop, some cracking pubs serving plain food in plentiful portions. All have weekly markets and have followed the vogue for monthly farmers' markets. There is a dearth of decent restaurants, however, outside the Lincoln establishments mentioned; plus Harry's and Wintringham Fields.

It's a big county, Helen. Where's your job? I was taken to a pub-with-pretensions in a village outside Horncastle (sorry, can't be more specific) about a year ago and it was excellent, in a way that might be seen as slightly passe in more cosmopolitan environs. Of course, the best fish and chips in the world is to be found @ Grimsby (actually Cleethorpes) and Lincs is the home of pork products in general, sausages in particular, and might be awarded PGI status. The town of Louth, for example, has a population of under 20,000 served by no fewer than seven independent pork butchers, each of which claims their sausages to be 'award winning'. Louth also boasts a half decent Thai restaurant (lousy Chinese and Indian) and I'm told that The Masons' Arms is recovering from the upheavals of recent years and returning to form (which wasn't half bad). The Woolpack also does decent, if plain, pub food. Both establishments serve Batemans ('Good Honest Ales') which is wonderful if you like real ale. Louth has a monthly farmers' market where you can buy Lincolnshire Poacher cheese and yet more organic pork products (try Chine and Hazlit). Vegetables can be a bit hard to come by - unless you want half a dozen varieties of potato - but there's a strong gardening culture and people will sell their surplus (and eggs) from roadside stalls with honesty boxes. Don't worry, you won't starve

If you've already sampled the pho houses in Kingsland Road, I fear you're going to be disappointed in your search for authentic Viet. food in London, where most of the 'Vietnamese' restaurants serve the familiar Cantonese pop menu with some Thai additions. Most Vietnamese here have not come direct from their mother country, but through the refugee camps in Hong Kong and many have ended up in the rougher parts of South London. (Originally located all over the country, they used the council house transfer system to gather together where nobody else wanted to live: the North Peckham Estate. It's still pretty grim in places and some of the locals refer to it as a war zone. Which tends to make the Vietnamese laugh, mirthlessly. 'War zone? Ha, ha!') Southwark Council has assisted several Vietnamese restaurant businesses - such as the Viet Hing in Peckham High Street - but, likesay, few bother with any notions of authenticity. Ethnic restaurants have traditionally provided an entry level business opportunity for new arrivals, but many of the Vietnamese arriving in London are a generation removed from their cultural roots and in thrall to the - ahem - more unsavoury element in Chinese society. Plus, they've found an infinitely more profitable business... You could always phone the Embassy - (020) 7937 1912 - and ask for recommendations. Otherwise, you might familiarise yourself with vytoh's recommendations and ask them for specialities, which may not appear on the menu. Let us know if you get lucky!

..."Whoever wins will succeed the broadcaster and journalist Sir Clement Freud, who has been rector since 2002," but has now stood down to take up an important post as Restaurant Critic @ the Press Gazette.

My experience was similar. After that bit with Martine Escutcheon, I thought I'd rather watch the talented man who was grouting the new tiles in my kitchen. Later, I watched him fill the wall with Pollyfilla. Can I point out to observers of Kitchen Nightmare that Gordo excelled himself this time out by getting his kit off in the opening sequence! As to point 4, above: I thought the idea of naming the turkeys after rival TV chef personalities was less than hilarious, but I'd like to see a response, perhaps from Ainsely Harriot. Perhaps 'gordon' could become the generic name for a roughly stuffed pork sausage? I was under the impression that women under a certain age don't iron any more? Don't you have some kind of ideological objection to ironing? Whereas we men - at least those who enjoy a crisp shirt - can get into the science of it (yoke first!)

That's the hourly rate specified in an ad I saw for staff @ Quaglino's. (I was thinking of applying, for amusement. But it's not that funny, is it?) Conran had a major bust up with the Inland Revenue a few years ago (because tips are theoretically taxable unless - like you and I - punters leave cash) and I *guess* they've resolved the issue by not passing on any of the service charge. (I could easily be wrong). Time for you to say 'I'm mad as Hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore ← Now you see, there I was being sarcastic. Bingo. Surreal eat state. Plus, a lot if not most of the money going into restaurants these days is coming from those fabled hedge fund managers with the multi million pound salaries and aggressive business sense. The reason Iqbal can't use Cinnamon Club to train staff for Roast is that they are separate businesses. In fact the Cinnamon Club backers tried to depose his Lordship a while back. Actually, they did, but the business immediately started falling apart, so he was swiftly reinstated...

I think he's still single, magnolia, but he may be too busy to read e-gullet!This thread seems to have turned into a discussion about how crap the general standard of restaurant service is in London. Thing is, I don't disagree. I've just tried to explain some of the practicalities of the situation. You're right about waiters being under valued and underpaid - many are clocking minimum wage (£5.05 p/h) plus tips. Some so-called 'restaurateurs' actually pay less than minimum in the expectation that the balance will be made up in tips. And that's legal! Many people in London object to tipping when a service charge (usually 12.5%) has already been levied, but a lot of restaurant companies divert a proportion of that charge to cover laundry costs, etc. Talking of which, I notice that Conran now offer a flat £6.98. Right, masochism is deeply ingrained into our national psyche. I imagine overheads are lower, waiter service is seen as more of a metier and everyone on the floor gets a fair cut of the tronc. But here there are no rules and lowly waiters have no rights.

Well, you did need to lose the weight.

Not to mention being a jolly good mate and valued collaborator of yours, eh luvvy? Whereas we Daily Mirror readers will swallow any old self-serving bollocks you care to push? At least Piers is a journalist, not a PR man, and he's not related by marriage to the world's most powerful newspaper proprietor (although the jury's still out on his professional ethics) As an Observer journalist, you'd know all about that. Like most discerning readers, I no longer bother with your woeful rag, since the unholy triumvirate of Cohen/Rawnsley/Aaronovitch started telling me that Tony Bliar's adventures in Iraq are only right and proper. But I'm sure the quality of your restaurant criticism remains undiminished by any real world considerations.

Reading Kim Fletcher On The Press in Monday's Media Guardian (you'll need to register) I learned that the owner of the UK Press Gazette is Matthew Freud. So, it transpires that Sir Clement's major qualification for writing restaurant reviews in that formerly esteemed organ - besides his venerable age and status as a National Treasure - is that his son is the proprietor. One can imagine the conversation. Matthew: "Great wheeze, Dad. You can take Mum out for dinner and scribble a few words about the experience and I can claim the bills as a business expense." Clement: "That's my boy. Never mind nepotism being a two way street when we clever Freuds can make it into a motorway." Of course, there's nothing more important than Restaurants, and I'm sure Sir Clem's opinions and writing style are beyond reproach, but who trusts a PR man who is Elizabeth Murdoch's husband to comment fairly upon the UK Press?

Not hardly; that I would comprehend. I'm talking about these fellers (which the e-gullet editor has resolved in the same way on my - OSX/Firefox - system): Ch᳥au P賲us; star anise pur裬

You think Iqbal Wahhab owns The Cinnamon Club and can do what he likes there? Next you'll be suggesting that he borrow a restaurant for staff training from one of his friendly rivals... There just aren't enough 'experienced FOH staff' to go round and the best ones stay put. When it comes to hiring waiters, if they can walk upright and speak reasonably intelligible English (forget about actually being able to read your operations manual) you can't afford to sack them. No doubt and I can't wait for you and Magnolia to open your own London restaurant, where the service will no doubt be impeccable and you'll altruistically give meals away at half price to entice customers to try the place. I refuse to put myself in the position of defending abysmal service in London restaurants - I'm frequently pissed off by it - but do you really think that none of your perfectly sensible ideas has occurred to successful London restaurateurs? Service isn't bad over here because nobody cares, or understands what constitutes good service. (Or maybe it is deliberate and that's a part of the Roast concept of Englishness!)

Where would you suggest? Maybe they could have made a replica of the restaurant in a shed somewhere in the 'burbs. Wouldn't that be a tad 'Self Defecating' Seriously, though, the success of the London restaurant scene has left a serious dearth of decent waiting staff. See Clement Freud's review of Maze f'rinstance: new restaurant of the year and still the service lacks lustre.

Is it just my 'pooter, or is there something funny going on with the HTML? This piece is riddled with what look like Chinese characters. D'you think Sir Clem is doing his own coding?

Without in any way wanting to patronise, you clearly don't understand the financial pressures that operate in London. You secure a lease on premises and, if you're smart, or lucky, negotiate a honeymoon period with the freeholder during which you pay no rent, or a reduced rate. Then you send in the builders to do the refurb. You can make 'em sign a contract with a default clause, if you like, but it won't make any difference: they still won't finish on time, or to budget. You've paid your decorating team a retainer, but they can't get in before the builders have finished. You recruit staff and agree a start date, when you're obliged to begin paying them. But anything that can go wrong probably will to hold you up and incur more expense. (Iqbal was talking about this Roast place at least ten months ago. Although that long delay had more to do with wooing the freeholders than dodgy builders). If you've informed the media of an opening date (more fool you!) you've really got to keep to it or risk looking foolish, or blowing the whole launch strategy... You see where I'm going with this? Restaurateurs rarely take full possession of their spanking new restaurants more than a day or two (sometimes, an hour or so) before swinging the doors open to the general public and they never know exactly how the place is going to work, ergonomically, or in terms of 'work flow' (dread phrase!) before it's actually operating at capacity. And then, along comes Fay Maschler to say the place is no good and - kaboom - it's game over. Or, Fay Maschler may come along and say the place is fantastic - as with Yau@Cha - and your phone lines go into meltdown, the new staff cannot cope and your customers' goodwill evaporates like - er - something that evaporates...

How is it possible to get your restaurant running smoothly before taking possession of the premises? The article we're referring to - which kicked off this thread - was a preview, or a puff piece, rather than a review. The Independent does employ a respectable restaurant critic (as well )