BCinBC

I am very very sad that I had to miss the C + HSG events, but I was able to make it up with some Okanagan golfing. Obviously not an equal match culinarily, but I bet the fun quotient was "on par". Ha ha, I got a million of 'em folks. Friday night: Sage Pub in Osoyoos Okay, if I could just talk about the food I would - I had a mushroom swiss burger and we had really a lot of beer (added to a lot of beer on the course prior). Burger was good, waitress was great... But man do they have some crazy ideas about entertainment. They had this one guy playing guitar and singing to pre-recorded background music. Like karaoke, but it's one guy all the time. If you used to listen to CHRX at 600 on your AM dial, you know all the songs. And the guy gives commentary between songs on life, love and politics. The best (worst) part was his name. "Party Hog." Seriously, WTF people!?! Saturday: Fairview Mountain GC in Oliver First off, we had the best hot dogs at the turn here. Really great, fresh off the grill hot dogs with a bevvy of condiments (I had ketchup, mustard and a lot of pickles). Yow, these are good dogs. In fact, these should be on the Best Dogs thread, except they're in Oliver. Then after the round, we sat on the deck and enjoyed a decent dinner. Nothing groundbreaking, but solid food at cheap prices. I think the 3-course was $26. I had a steak and BBQ chicken combo, the steak was cooked to a perfect MR, but the chicken I think was just a poached breast, finished on the grill with some sauce. More beer. I think we were there for about 5 hours. The worst (best) part was some poor couple was having their wedding reception inside, and as it turned out, our table was immediately behind the head table, separated only by picture windows. I wonder how the wedding video turned out, cause I know I'd love to have had 10 drunken jackasses in the background of all our speeches. Anyway, they have quite a nice facility so if you can actually find the place hidden within the orchards, give it a try for lunch. It is close to several vineyards which is a bonus, Tinhorn and Burrowing Owl spring to mind. Sunday: Osoyoos GC Lunch on the deck, but just a clubhouse for me. The sandwich was really good, thinking about the tomatoes just now I started salivating. But how can you screw up a clubhouse? Course itself is a bit meh, but again the room and deck are nice. Technically my last meal out was at 5-Point on Main, but that is in another thread.

After a weekend of burgers, steaks and a skinfull of beer, I had the urge to eat something relatively healthy Tuesday night. Cruising the entertainment book, I spotted 5-Point on Main - which I remembered this time as the place where Butter had the spinach salad. The first thing you notice upon arrival is it is loud. Hard ceiling with a kind of parabolic shape that reflects everything; hard walls, music turned up, and people drinking the cheap pitchers are turned up higher just so they can be heard. I would be fine with all of this if I was with my softball team drinking beer after a game, but alas I am not. I have the spinach salad and, since it is wing nite, a dozen wings. N has the grilled vegetable tower. Wings are the breaded kind, which I think are almost always greasy. But at 35c they are typical pub wings, so no surprises. Hot are not that hot, honey garlic are okay though. Wing Nuts is not losing sleep over 5-Point, and 5-Point is not losing sleep over Wing Nuts. Spinach salad is very good, you get a lot of stuff. Candied walnuts are great, and the feta is nice too. However I am of the mindset that one never gets full on salad, one just gets sick of eating it. I've now appeased my salad craving, so I stop eating. Again, it's a good salad, but... The zucchini I sampled from the veg tower tastes good, but as N put it, the dish could have been served a little hotter. She likes the garlic mashed though. All in all, with the glass of Sumac Ridge gewurtz and except for the wings, I had quite the girly meal. Which is not what I'd recommend this place for. Burgers looked good on other tables, and Big Rock (Traditional and something else, probably Grasshopper) is $4.29 a sleeve. Did I mention that pitchers are equally cheap? So next time I'll go for burgers and beer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Samba is on the west side of Thurlow, no? I've never been to the basement on the west side, but one on the east side is quite frightening. We've talked about if previously HERE. I always used to think that if no one supported those cave-dwelling mystery-meat-serving South Asian kiosk cooks, a porno company was probably waiting in the wings to scoop up the leases, kick everyone out, and start up some sort of dominatrix website right quick. Then again, the McFumes on the west side probably stagnate in that basement there. Begs the question, which is worse?

In Cantonese, it is called "cheung fun" and is usually served on an oblong dish under a stainless steel lid (thus hiding from view). Lee, the sticky rice does look great in the bamboo steamer (without glass). I have only ever seen it served under glass at dim sum, which (I'd presumed) was to keep it moist. I do love the idea of mix and match steamers too. Vive la revolution.

Reality TV cooks? This is standard in my reality bleeping life. Anyone notice how Elsie is wearing a blue uni in one of the intro shots? Does this mean blue loses two members, possibly Andrew and Ralph, and Ramsay does another shuffle to pit boys against girls? So the possibility of Michael vs Elsie is there, or else Michael vs Jess. Note: This is not a bleeping spoiler, this is pure specu-bleeping-lation!

Lee - great post. Wondering how you did it with the food, the wine, the heat, the meat... Good on you for packing it all away. For all that damned fine looking meat, I've gotta admit that the thing I was most curious to taste was the smoked tomato guacamole. So what didn't you like about the burger? Sounded pretty good to me, although the height of the patty might have been an issue. Was it that you'd eaten so much by then that the thought of more meat was a turnoff? Or does "least favourite" still mean good, but everything else was very good? Hey Other Lee, you know what would be the best thing ever: if that nice woman from the Clamshak cooked you this meal. Petit mort pour homme?

Thought I'd mention Grand Marpole Market on Granville @ 69th-ish, just in case this thread pops up from someone's search. The produce is good and cheap, and they have small meat and Chinese BBQ counters. Ever since GMM has opened, I've forsaken the Oakridge Kin's (well unless I need fish from the Oakridge fish place).

N and I were driving around last Friday looking for a casual bite. After cruising Main trying in vain to remember where Butter had her good salad (it was 5 Point Pub), we switched to South Granville. Which, really people, is North Granville. I parked by Meinhardt's, stepped out of the car, and was startled / greeted by someone screaming, "BRIAN!" After rotating my neck 360 degrees, I spot the Moosh family at the new Red Door. Yada yada yada, we don't end up there but do take their suggestion of sitting at the bar at Cru. Thank you Joie! We are greeted by Mark, or one eatbc (eGullet is everywhere), and are seated at the bar with a clear view of the action in the kitchen. The bartender is friendly, I think her name was Anne? (sorry if I'm wrong!), chatty and helpful. Convinces me to do the duck confit over the syrah braised short ribs w/ macaroni & cheese (which is apparently also very good). N orders the wild mushroom on crostini. But we start with a shared butter lettuce salad. It is so fresh, a whole head of "living lettuce" if I'm not mistaken, with cherry tomatoes and chives, dressed with a perfectly balanced vinegarette. Seriously, it is the right balance of oil, vinegar, mustard, and seasonings. After the salad a table comes up, which is great because although I do not mind bar seating, sometimes there is not a lot of leg room. It is kind of them to offer to move us. Then the mains. The first thing I do when the duck arrives is take a whiff; I black out dreaming of this vinegar-y, savoury tang. Immediately I start drooling. The meat is wonderfully tender, the skin crisp. There is frisee and several cubed roasted potatoes to soak up the sauce. Talk about a beautiful leg! I try some of N's mushrooms, and they are also deliciously fragrant. Hers is served with a rocket salad. All in all it is a superb light meal. The whole shebang, including a bottle of Inniskillin PN, was $70 before tip. Personally I cannot believe they offer a 3-course prix fixe for $36. Why did I wait so long? I was a fool. Cru is one of the best bangs for the buck I've had in a long time.

Canuckle, Peppyre, Moosh and I went for dim sum last week at Sun Sui Wah on Main. Not that anyone needs to be told to go to SSW, but there is one item there that made a particular impression, and it was a dessert no less. Some dim sum places do a baked tapioca. The result, if you've never seen it, is a glass bowl full of yellow custardy goodness, speckled with tapioca bubbles, and covered with a pudding skin that George Costanza would kill for. Have I sold you yet? The Sun Sui Wah version is actually covered with a pastry crust and features a small ball of red bean paste inside. However, despite the presence of my nemesis, I still think SSW's baked tapioca is really good. How's that for an endorsement? Anyway, go try it. PS: Don Mee in Victoria does these treats, but theirs feature a ball of yolk inside, rather than the red bean. Also good - skin but no pastry crust - but it does eliminate RB.

I am also kolachy-free. I was waiting for the hype to die down. So by the looks of things, I'll be gumming away at my first kolachy while sitting in my rocking chair, shaking my head over how fast the kids drive their hover cars nowadays, and cursing the nurse for being late with my soma. At least it's something to look forward to.

Somewhat similar and recent thread about QE dining HERE, though from what Jamie said recently Villa del Lupo might be undergoing some changes.

A recap of my conversation with Richmond Fire Dept: ME: I'm calling about beach fire permits. RFD: Uh, not anymore. ME: Just for the summer? Or... RFD: No, probably not ever. I have no idea what the background story is, whether it's a general concern about wildfires or if some dumb kids had a huge bonfire that went awry, but Richmond is out. As mentioned about, some Vancouver beaches (all along Spanish Banks) allow BBQs and even have briquette disposal bins. Just no "open" fires. We could go the route of Coleman burners under stock pots to get our crabs boiling, I think this would be acceptable. Alternately we could "borrow" someone's backyard and forego the beach. Yes this would be sad, but may be necessary - unless anyone has access to a private beach on this side of the boarder. I personally prefer the Vancouver beach idea, and will continue to pursue.

I've contacted NWCAV on course info. Foodie runs Sept 19 - Nov 14, but since I'm out of town for the end of Sept, I'll miss the first two classes. Marla the school contact is checking with Chef Tony what the impact would be, but most likely I'm SOL until the course runs next time, probably in 2006. I've also asked about 1-shot private group lessons for anyone who is interested (Van.Lee and CdnBkn), as well as a "short" run 2-3 class custom series. Minimum 12 participants, all hands-on. Maybe we could do the first two fundamentals classes of Foodie? Updates to follow. PS - I too would be taking the courses just for personal interest/experience. Props to y'all with the chops, but me in a pro kitchen? To quote Mike Meyers, "Cha right, and monkeys might fly outta my butt."

I have read this too, and have wondered. I understand that the avocado makes it somehow "Californian", but the name being what it is, I don't think it will ever really be associated with Vancouver. On the other hand, the BC roll incorporating salmon has got to be a local creation. But whose? Can we pin this one on Tojo?

The theory is great, if you can truly astound every person every time. If you can be sure that everyone ordering feels like they really got a $100 experience. The problem arises when someone who goes to Lumiere thinking oh boy is this going to be great, proceeds to order the 3 courses for $100, maybe experiences one off course - or meets one course that doesn't please the palate, and leaves with a bad taste in his mouth (feeling ripped off). Lumiere has just damaged its own reputation. Is this worth the extra one-time $65? I am highly doubtful that Feenie sits back watching people order the $100 prix fixe thinking, "Sucker!" I am more likely to believe that he spends the odd night or two thinking about how he can make his restaurant better.

I’m finding this thread very interesting. For the record, I’ve eaten at Lumiere once with the full-blown 9+ course tasting menu, and once at on the tasting bar side. The full-blown menu was the best meal of my life. Point of ref: no, I haven’t eaten at the Fat Duck or the French Laundry, though I have eaten the tasting menu at Trotter’s and I was definitely disappointed, I think in exactly the same way Foodie-Girl was – because my expectations were so high and because the bill was twice as much as I’d spent at Lumiere. CT’s food was good, a couple courses were great (dessert being one), the service was the best part of the night, but I sure didn’t feel like I got my money’s worth. This goes back completely to what James just said. I think the Lumiere (big) meal was great because of the culmination of all of the ingredients that Edm and everyone else has talked about. Fresh, seasoned and cooked perfectly, innovative (at least to me, the unworldly diner), flow and rhythm spot on, service wonderful, no crowding / rushing / anything issues, etc. The tasting bar dinner I had was also great, but for different reasons. Sparing details, it was not the second greatest meal I’ve had, but it was pretty damned good and it was a relative bargain. Two things that I think deserving of note: 1. The meal Foodie-Girl had was the revamped 3-course prix fixe menu. This is a big reason why I’m so interested, because I think a major contributor to the greatness of my previous Lumiere dinner was the event of it. Nine courses. This is much more “grand” than three courses. I’d like to try the new set-up, but you know what, in the back of my head I’m always thinking that I can get a pretty amazing three-course meal in a few other places around town for a lot less. For example, at West (early only), Cru, even Feenie's where it’ll set me back $35 pp. Further, I can still get the tasting menu for $20 (vegetarian) or $30 (kitchen menu) more. I'm going to Lumiere, why limit myself to $100? Or another way to ask the question is, if you go to Lumiere or any place in this category, should you just give in and let them pick the menu? 2. Feenie’s is not synonymous with Lumiere. They are two completely different concepts. I know I seemingly contradicted myself just now, but the thing is that even though you can get a 3-course prix fixe at Feenie’s, is it going to be over-the-top amazing food? Probably not. (Maybe West or Cru would.) At Feenie’s, the red walls burning my eyeballs don’t bother me, the noise is fine for the place, and the crowd that frequents it is what it is. I still like the food. It is not “fine dining” so much as it is a gourmet spin on comfort food. If you’ve made it this far, before you start wondering whether (or perhaps why) I’m defending Lumiere, I’m really not. All I’m wondering is whether the $100 for three courses is worth it, and if not, whether Rob shouldn’t go back to a full blown tasting menu only for this side of the restaurant. Thoughts?

Okay I know this is outside my own described boundaries, but N and I went to Coco Pazzo last Friday night. We both like this place, not just because of proximity, but also because I think Chef Ken B is cooking good, simple food. In fact I'd add this place to the "casual" Italian if I wasn't so lazy. (It's as casual as Quattro on 4th.) Started with an asparagus, tomato and feta appy - which was the highlight. Talk about fresh, vivid flavours. The sauce was (I think) a reduced balsamic, almost smoky-meaty, maybe added a touch of beef stock? - anyway it really rounded out the body of the veg's. N had prawn and beetroot risotto - it was a risotto weekend for her - which showed up a bright pink colour. I was just temped to type Pink Triad Alert! Pink Triad Alert! but was able to restrain myself. Anyway, the flavour was not that beet-y, unless you took a chunk of beet with the risotto. Prawns were huge and cooked nicely though (butterflied and fried). She said my mushroom pea risotto two days later was better, what a sweetheart / suckup, to which I replied I didn't have to cook 50 of them. I had linguine vongole (clams) in a tomato sauce, rather than white wine. Yikes, the plate was literally covered with clams, so that I could not see linguine. The pasta was a nice al dente, the sauce fresh and light. Spring comfort food, if there is such a thing. No dessert, but did get a 1/2 L of forgettable Mission Hill PN (I wish they would expand their wine list, and/or perhaps delve into more less-than-bottle offerings, but oh well I could always have ordered a bottle and corked it). $98 pre-tip, but we're on the mailing list so we got $25 off. Obviously it's not exclusive as we are on it, just drop off a business card and you too can be on the list. One more thing: we sat outside for the first time this year, it was a little cool but otherwise very pleasant. If you're in the neighborhood, give this place a try. Coco Pazzo is on W 57th @ E Boulevard.

N and I went to Trout Lake last Saturday, picked up odds and ends like... Peas for risotto (nice and crisp, but at $1.99/lb they are not as cheap as I've seen at small produce stores - in fact I just saw some on Fraser and 49th for $0.99/lb). Mushrooms, crimini and dried porcini, from the mushroom guy. Dude, these were gooooood (sorry, Canucklehead moment!). They went into the risotto also. Fresh criminis were $1.50 for a small container, ie 1.5-2 cups, but they had an assortment of different shrooms, the most expensive being $2.50/small $5/lg. The porcinis were $6 for 3 x 15g bags for I think. About competitive with what I usually buy except the quality is better. Baby salad greens, incl mustard, peppercress, arugula, some I've never heard of. And I just remembered, garlic scapes because of the other thread in cooking. But I don't think N knew what they were; when washing the greens she must have tossed them because we sure didn't eat them! Anyway, mix & match for $2.30/100g. (Expensive but you know what, 100g of salad is a lot of salad.) Some micro-basil, can't remember the name but it starts with F. Super fragrant little buggers. And this was the highlight - a full grown bay tree for $18. What a steal! Someone told the guy that they were selling them at Van Dusen for $100+, which I think is a load of BS (I would have guessed $40-50), however he may very well up his prices next weekend. They also had frozen at sea fish and prawns (from the Charlottes) which I was tempted by, but did not get. Same with frozen organic beef, lamb, other stuff... There are honey vendors, the cheese guy, and yes some crafts that I could do without. But all in all it's not bad; I am planning on checking out Nat Bailey tomorrow, but I expect the same booths there. PS - I totally forgot to check out Bad Girl Chocolates. I don't even really love chocolates, but with a name like that, damn!

The new Grand Marpole Market on Granville @ 69th-ish has its own butcher and BBQ. Both are small, and I really couldn't tell you if one supplied the other. However, they are relatively cheap and not bad given the neighborhood (ie not Richmond, Chinatown or even Fraser St). I tend to get about 1/4 lb of BBQ sausage for about a buck and eat it before dinner (a "working" appetizer). It is relatively lean here, which I actually prefer because I can eat a whole bunch and not feel gross. Haven't tried the pork or duck yet tho. Inspired by this thread, I also just tried the place on the east side of Fraser b/w 47 & 48th. More sausage, $3.80/lb, but this stuff was pretty greasy. If I got it again, I'd only use it for stir-frying or some other method of reducing the fat. On the bright side, their window is chock fulla BBQ'ed stuff, so there is still potential here. They also have a take-out set up, like mall food (you know, 2 items plus rice or noodles, etc). Of course I don't have to tell you to approach with caution...

Arne: Chef Jeff kind of beat me to it, but I picked up a pamphlet for Northwest last weekend that offered abbreviated cooking courses (like 8 day "serious foodie" course). I doubt that they go indepth on the business side of resto life, but I am thinking of signing up for the cooking fundamentals that they're selling.

Because Deborah, then you’d have my life (which equals , but thanks for the capital E) * Alert - industry outsider POV * The problems described in this thread translate into just about any trade - cooking, plumbing, whatever. If you’re good, you move up the ladder. If you’re really good, and you work hard, and you’re smart, you’ll go very high up indeed. If you’re not good, or if you’re really lazy, or if your boss is a yelling asshole who you think does not respect you, you will probably quit. The search for talent in all sectors continues. Assuming that matching wages & benefits is out of the question, the only thing that independents can offer is opportunity - to work and learn, to maybe move up the ladder a little quicker than if you were a small cog in a big (in the line cook example) hotel-driven machine, possibly even future partnership opportunities... In my profession, aside from recent grads, I see a lot of immigrants being hired into design engineering jobs, which is roughly the equivalent of a line cook. These folks have skills and are looking to use them. Bourdain’s books seem to indicate that his kitchens are filled with immigrants on the line. There are even “imports” posting in this thread. So maybe the question is, how does the independent restaurant get the word out to these people? (Aside from threads like this I guess.) PS: Irishgirl, great success story. Has Food Network called yet? PPS: TFA, another potential FN story in the works!

My guesses would be Marine Drive and Point Grey, both of which sit close to / on the water. Both are also private, though, so the chefs might be sneaking onto the course(s) at night... The only other course I can think of with oceanfront real estate is Furry Creek, and surely the drive up would make it less economical than buying from GI? Or is it the thrill of the hunt? (The "hunt" of vegetables.) I can see the headlines now. "Marine Drive Golf Course Trampled By Sea Asparagus Poachers - witnesses report crop circles spelling 'eGullet rulz' "

Well closest would be the Smoking Dog and Epic, neither of which I've tried. Tangerine too "trendy"? (It is not really trendy, but the room is an effort in "hip".) With a car or a will to walk you could of course open the possibilities of GI, South Granville, and beyond. But I am telling you things you already know. ETA: I now recall something about one of your parents' mobility on foot so that's probably ruling out walking.

There is definitely a discrepancy here on whether the Sichuan we have in Vancouver (including Richmond) is "authentic" or not. I recently discussed this with a Chinese fellow who splits his time between Vancouver and China (his hometown is Tianjin just east of Beijing), and he said that in his opinion, although the Cantonese style of Chinese food has been mastered here (to this we can all agree), Sichuan is still not quite the same as in China. Going back to what Feedbag said, Sichuan is not really the spiciest region for China - that honour goes to the Hunan province. What we have is actually a misconception; Sichuan is more about clever heat (if that makes any sense), as opposed to burn-your-face-off heat (again, that would be Hunan). Cantonese, of course, is all about no heat. When we were young, my parents never really cooked with chilis, but I saw the light around age 18 (that moment of streaming tears, runny nose, face sweats, and a huge smile). The regionalization of Chinese food goes further, to subtleties such as Shanghai-ese, subtleties that are lost on me. A word about desserts. Keith, I agree with you that for the most part the Chinese dessert is a mysterious conglomeration of seemingly non-related ingredients. I'll not rant about red bean here. But I will say that for all those strikes, they've also hit a few singles and doubles - tapioca, steamed sponge cake, these fantastic little donut-type items with condensed sweetened milk, caramel taro (read my accounts of the last two here if you wish)… Okay that taro one did seem like a science experiment to me too, but it did work. Chinese desserts will never be slam-your-face-in-chocolate terrines or anything like that, the good ones just very subtle all around.

Zuke, I suppose with all tastes it is a matter of, well, taste. I loved the richness, it is one of those things that makes you think, "Too good, must be sinful." But I, like most eGulleters, can switch on the garburator and consume just about anything. N, on the other hand, ended up eating pretty much the whole thing and regretted it later, so I'd say it was too rich for her. (Tho remember that it was piled on top of the Caesar, and afterwards there was some creme brulee and chocolate cake piled on as well.) I know Lumiere finishes risotto with mascarpone, and I'm sure many other places do it too. Personally I've never seen the need, but then again maybe that's the difference between "fine dining" and "normal dining". One final note before I bow out of this DOV thread, the figure I gave above includes two Glenlivets, so it actually worked out to less than $60 pp plus tip. A relative bargain given the quality!