RonC

Thanks Avumede. Chuckling here 'cause I DO think we worry about stuff too much sometimes, don't we?!

Linda (aka fifi) That's kinda been my practice too (although my skillet isn't 20 years old). Maybe Alton was being a little overly careful --- or, as I suggested, maybe he was talking about cases where you re-use the oil. Sidecar Ron

Let's see ... "scrub and rinse and heat then oil" ... where do the coffee grounds and cigarette ashes fall in the sequence? :)

Jay, you may well be right that Alton was referring to long-term buildup. It wasn't clear (at least to me) because he was "deep frying" in the specific example and went on later to discuss storing and reusing oils. Sidecar Ron

Friends, My pretty-well-seasoned Lodge has become my favorite frying and browning "machine." But, last night Alton Brown was saying that peanut, safflower, soybean, grapeseed and canola oils should NOT be used in cast iron because the oils acquire an off taste. What wasn't clear from Brown was whether he was talking about a one-use situation as opposed to saving the oil for future use. (I only use it once.) What's your experience and recommendation? Thanks much! Sidecar Ron

Ahhh, the memories are coming back. Gotta try our hands at making some. Thanks. Sidecare Ron

Thanks folks. The recipe doesn't sound too much like our memory. As we recall, the soup from our past included some ground lamb and had yogurt on top, but no beans. Sounds like aush is a pretty generic term, so I'm sure it must cover a whole host of different soups. Sidecar Ron

Several years ago, my wife and I used to frequent an Afgan restaurant in Ann Arbor, Michigan. One of our favorite there was a soup that, as my falling memory recalls, was called aush. I'm sure someone can correct me about its name and, hopefully, provide a recipe. Thanks, Sidecar Ron

Varmint, it's truly looking great! I'm sure to can't wait until you get a chance to break it in with some fine cookin'. Sidecar Ron

Wow, does this ever bring back memories ... we've been away from Troy, MI for 25+ years, but still recall going down to a converted gas station across from the Renaissance Center (Mommas?) for the greatest ribs and sweet potato pie. We'd probably never go into the place had it not been raved about in the Free Press. I'm sure it's gone now. Sigh Sidecar Ron ←

Hmmmm, my wife are I are truly lovers of great cassoulet, so this thread sure makes our taste buds water. Our favorite cassoulet chef, Pierre Pollin of LeTitti deParis, has now sold the restaurant to Michale Madden, but fortunately Pierre taught Michael well and the cassoulet continues to be wonderful. Just love those beans!!! Sidecar Ron

Gee, my first contribution .... nothing too fancy. Salmon with a maple syrup, soy, brown sugar and mustard glaze and rice with roasted red peppers and pine nuts. These were my contributions. Later, we'll have wife's strawberry tofu pie. A nice Pinot Grigio for moi. Going to braise tomorrow, maybe some pics will follow that. SidecarRon

<<My only point is that it would be extremely naive to think that anyone is free from biases and preconceptions.>> My point exactly. End of my posts to this thread. Ron

Ahhhh, communication is so tough. I ALWAYS try to look at the funding source for claims. This stems from my experimental psych background where we showed how easy -- and unconsciously -- researchers can bias results. It's a very subtle phenomenon and does not mean that data are intentionally fudged. Ron Ron, I'm not 'emotional' at all, and I apologize if I've come across that way. I am very concerned, however, that people will reduce their consumption of or stop eating heart-healthy salmon out of an unfounded fear of cancer, or due to the completely false belief that it is deficient in omega3 fatty acids. I know you didn't bring up the issue of omega3's. However, when I pointed out that farmed salmon is as high if not higher in omega3s than wild salmon, you questioned "WHO funded the research," and stated that that conclusion "seems to fly in the face of most that I've read in recent months and years." You didn't bring the issue up, but you very clearly expressed your skepticism on the matter. You're initial question was indeed an honest one. And its a question that I think can be and has been answered -- farmed salmon is just as healthy as wild salmon. ←

Patrick, We probably should just end this. I sense you're getting somewhat emotional about the issue. However, I NEVER expressed explicit concern about omega3s. I didn't go back and re-read the post, but someone else (maybe you) brought up that issue. My initial question was an honest one; i.e., which holds greater (if any) health risk - farm-raised salmon or wild salmon imported from China. Sadly, this question wound up being highjacked into other issues. Peace, Ron Actually, every one of the substantive claims I made was backed up by peer-reviewed scientific research, cited in the Gold et al paper. Again, I did not rely on ACSH for a single one of the substantive claims I made regarding PCBs in salmon. Having said that, I read ACSH all the time, and I can't think of a single instance where they ignored facts in order to take a pro-industry stance on an issue. And I can think of some industries --like tobacco-- that they have bashed mercilessly. I'm not sure why our discussion of PCBs in salmon brings this quote to mind, especially since I get the impression that you think you've found the truth about farmed salmon, to wit, that it lacks omega3's (which was shown to be false), or that it has a dangerously high concentration of PCBs (which is also false). But since we're exchanging quotes, here's one of my favorites: "The truth will set you free. But first it will p*** you off." Cheers! ←

I'm sorry to jump into this thread with an only tangentially-related question -- but -- here goes. I recall seeing something about making stock in a microwave. Can someone direct this still newby to those instructions? Thanks, Ron

Smiling here - corn fields or Illinois. Actually, we could drive about 50 miles and get fresh, but ... Hey, maybe someone in, say, the Seatlle area could .... probably not. Ron

Hmmmm. interesting. It's labeled "wild". Maybe that just means they weren't able to tame it. Ron

Patrick, As I'm sure you know, the reference you site "The Top Ten Unfounded Health Scares of 2004: PCBs in Salmon and Cancer" came from the American Council on Science and Health. I don't claim to know Truth (capital T) on ACSM; however, I do know that it has a reputation for often/usually siding with industries and corporations. They're an example of why, unfortunately, we need to always try to find out the source and the dollars of research "findings." One of my all-time favorite sayings comes to mind "Follow those who are seeking the truth. Run from those who think they've found it." Ron Yeah this issue got a lot of attention in 2004 thanks to an Environmental Working Group report and tons of scaremongering headlines. But the science to justify a health concern simply isnt there. Yes, PCBs do seem to be slightly higher in farmed versus wild salmon. But the good news is that in both farmed and wild salmon, the content of PCBs are extremely low. The average PCB content of farmed salmon was reported to be 27 parts per billion, which is about 1% of the allowable limit set by the FDA, which is itself extremely conservative (see below on the HERP ranking for PCBs). To put that into some perspective, that is much higher than the concentration in wild salmon, but only about 4 times higher than the concentration in beef, so for someone like myself who eats beef far more often than salmon, by far my largest PCB source is beef. In fact, for the "average american consumer," the yearly-per capita PCB exposure from beef is 2016 picograms TEQ, from milk is 756, from poultry is 386, and from farmed salmon is 178 (2004 data). So, supposing consumption of farmed salmon tripled in this country, salmon would still only account for a small portion of the annual per capita load of PCBs. From PCBs and Farmed Salmon: Facts to Go with the Fiction Ironically enough, one of the reasons farmed salmon have higher PCB is that they have more fat, including more heart-healthy omega-3s. Fatter fish will have more fat-soluble compounds in them. Another point that should be mentioned is that overal dietary PCB exposure from all sources have been dropping dramatically since PCBs were banned. In fact, the dietary exposure to PCBs dropped 20-fold between 1978 and 1986 (see references in Gold et al, 2002, p. 64). Whatever risk dietary PCBs pose to the average consumer, that risk has been dropping enormously. Lastly, we should compare the supposed carcinogenic risk of dietary PCBs to other natural and synthetic compounds in the diet. To do that I need to introduce the HERP index (which I also referred to on another thread). The HERP index is a ranked index of various carcinogenic hazards. The ranking is straightforward. It reflects the ratio of the dose humans recieve in mg per kg of body weight per day to the lowest dose in mg/kg/day that has been shown to be carcinogenic in animal tests. So, for instance, if the 'average consumer' gets 10mg per kg of body weight per day of chemical X, and the rodent tests show that chemical X causes cancer in rodents at doses of 100mg/kg/day, then the HERP rank for that chemical is 10%. The methodology is described in detail in Gold et al's papers on the subject. Gold et al's paper is available here. I should probably also point out that Gold and coauthor Bruce Ames are considered to be two of the world's leading toxicologists, particularly with respect to environmental carcinogens. PCBs are actually near the very bottom of the HERP index, with a value of 0.00008%. That means that the average consumer recieves about 0.00008% of the lowest dose shown to increase cancer risk in animal studies (Gold et al, p. 82). This compares very, very favorably to many natural carcinogens present in our diets. For instance, caffeic acid from coffee has a HERP of 0.1%, caffeic acid from lettuce has a HERP of 0.04%, and hydrazine from mushrooms has a rank of 0.02%. Bottom line for me is I am much, much more concerned with being struck by lightening than I am about getting cancer from PCBs in salmon. Some links: The Top Ten Unfounded Health Scares of 2004: PCBs in Salmon and Cancer ←

Yes, I did read the reference and thanked you for it. Actually, the issue, for me, isn't the level of omega 3s, but rather the amount of PCBs and other toxins that seem from the data I've read to be higher in farm-raised. Here are three references for those interested. http://healthletter.tufts.edu/issues/2003-11/salmon.html http://www.breastcancer.org/research_farm_raised_salmon.html http://www.healthcastle.com/wildsalmon-far...sedsalmon.shtml Guess if I lived in the great northwest, or even in a metro area, where wild and fresh salmon was easily available, I'd go that route. But, as I said at the top of this post, wild fresh salmon isn't typically available here and my usual choices are farm-raised and wild imported from China. Can I interest anyone in a nice T-bone? Ron Did you read the PDF that I linked to? The data comes straight from the USDA online database, which I consider the best of its kind. The gram amount of eicosapentaenoic acid+docosahexanoic acid per 100 grams fresh fish are as follows: Farmed Coho Salmon: 1.206 Wild Coho Salmon: 1.085 Farmed Atlantic Salmon: 1.911 Wild Atlantic Salmon: 1.472 Farmed Channel Catfish: 0.274 Wild Channel Catfish: 0.364 Farmed Rainbow Trout: 0.928 Wild Rainbow Trout: 0.587 So as you can see, with the exception of catfish, which is low in omega3s to begin with, all the farmed fish are significantly higher in omega3s than their wild counterparts. I follow food-safety issues too. If your sources have said that farmed salmon lacks omega3s, they're definitely misinformed, and therefore I would take their future prouncements about food safety with skepticism. Cheers! ←

Wow, did I ever open a can of ... well ... salmon with this post. All I was really trying to get were some facts (even opinions) on the relative health concerns and benefits of farm-raised vs imported (it just happens to be from China) wild salmon. As one who has fought most of my adult life against discrimination of any form, I certainly was NOT bashing China; however, it does appear that the country places fewer safe guards on environmental issues than America (used to). Anyway, I guess I'll continue to eat the flash frozen wild rather than the farm raised flash frozen (and "thawed for my convience") variety. Hope all of you were able to get to sleep last night and thanks for sharing. Ron

Thanks for the article reference - Now if we only just knew WHO funded the research. Sorry to be so cynical, but ... well... sadly, data seem to be following the dollars lately. I'm not suggesting it's wrong, it just seems to fly in the face of most that I've read in recent months and years. Isn't it truly a sad state of affairs when we can't trust the news and scientists? But that's another story. Ron That simply is not true. On a per-serving basis, farmed salmon has as much if not more omega-3 fatty acids as wild salmon does. As a percentage of total fat per serving, wild salmon is slightly higher in omega-3s. But since farmed salmon have a significantly higher fat content, the per-serving omega-3 content is about the same or higher in farmed salmon. For instance, see this page, and particularly this attached PDF file comparing omega-3 content of wild vrs farmed salmon. Also: Kris-Etherton PM, Harris WS, Appel LJ; American Heart Association. Nutrition Committee. Fish consumption, fish oil, omega-3 fatty acids, and cardiovascular disease. Circulation 2002;106:2753. There may be good reasons not to eat farmed salmon. But a lack of omega-3s is definitely not one of them! ←

Hmmm, so you both feel it's better (safer) to eat farm-raised than imported wild salmon from China. Anyone else want to weigh in on this? Ron

Sadly, out here in the boonies it's really tough to get good fresh fish and yet I've gotten wife and son to enjoy it. Our local meat market on occasion will get some fresh, but ... that's not very frequent. I've read all the horror stories about farm-raised salmon. My only option for most of the year is (obviously) frozen wild salmon from China. It looks and tastes okay, but I can't help but wonder what we're putting in our bodies. I'd sure welcome your opinions and reaction to my options. What would you do? Thanks, Ron