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Ted I wasn't sure I needed to clarify that. No they aren't doing much working. I got along with the staff fine because I did my thing and left. The 42 year old man that worked breakfast pretty much screwed up everything he had to do. Aftre the 8th week he started to get some things down. and I wouldn't consider someone that takes a 10 minute smoke break every 30 minutes a hard worker. And no I am not exaggerating that in the least. Half of his day he would come to my station and lean over the counter and ask me questions about what I was doing. I didn't mind him, he didn't bother me but he sure wasn't working at that time. Growing up even in the off season of restaurants if I leaned over and had nothing to do, my boss would find something for me to do (I like to think that didn't happen often). The other woman who worked there litterally complained about everything around her. I came to a point where I stopped responding with, oh that sucks, or im sorry to hear that, or oh you don't say. The day I stopped she scouled at me out of nowhere and said I was an asshole. I hadn't said a word all day. She had several problems that need not be discussed here on egullet. The foreign people that worked for me did, pretty much, whatever they wanted to. I had a russian who threw away my sour dough starter 3 times on my days off throughout his term. He kept telling me it was dead because it smelt bad? Right in the middle of rolling out dough (between others proofing and bulk fermenting) he would walk off somewhere random and eat a sandwich, he hadn't been at work 3 hours! most of the time it was easier and faster for me to do the job by myself because 4 out of the 6 people working in the mornings constantly messed things up. Then I would have to take time out of my day (being the chosen superior at the time) to assess whether it can be saved or tossed. I did not get paid for the rank I was being asked to perform. I left. I am not complaining Ted, you brought this on yourself. I have had to walk a long side of a highway through other properties to get to work. I didn't bitch because I walked along a road by the water; it was nice, warm and peaceful. I am sorry that so many people here think I hate culinary school. The tone I am writing in is not towards my school, it's toward the people that are giving me more problems than assistance. I have taken everything here in stride and I am not giving up my ideas about a better education because a few people think the world is too tough to change. This school has gone through immense change since 1946. They need our help to keep it great. When I talk about these issues I do not receive the agile responses from them as I get here. I speak very enthusiastically. I might not be able to type that way, appologies. Before submitting this post I should have crossed my t's and dotted my i's but I really didn't think I would get a surplus of english majors not thinking on my level and just seeing the plain text. I wanted ideas to feed off of, I wanted notions to run with, I wanted perspectives to use focus. I received a good amount of that with a tablespoon of salt. It's fine with me, I am use to having to sort out the rough with the great. I am not sure I have practiced it well (I hope I have), but if I am not sure what a person means in their statement I usually do not reply, or I ask for clarification. A lot of people here kept replying grammar and spelling. I only need to read that once, I too love to jump on a bandwagon but am usually timid in doing so. I don't want anyone to think I didn't get anything out of this, I sure as hell did. It just wasn't what I thought was egullet worthy and probably became a little frustrated. I am use to people and life experience to have been through things and have info I can use, like turkeybone, cheffete, melanger, and alanamoana. By the way, regardless of what you think, and what you think you read, I love school. This is the greatest networking I have ever been submersed into. I take every oppurtunity I can. I am at Sutdent Government meetings every wednesday. Every pastry instructor already knows me by name, and quite a few culinary instructors. I have proctored a showpiece competition, and soon I will be bringing up High-Profile chefs for demos and lectures. I just finished the finalizing with Richard Leach about a palted dessert demo on the 16th for our Baking and Pastry club. At the end of this month I have a brewery I worked for (and loved) to come up and to a beer seminar with the brew club I have been advidly part of. I have even been asked to take it over, even though I decline reasoning the baking and pastry club. I will be developing a dessert menu with some members of the baking and pastry club, and will be doing a beer and dessert pairing. Do not tell me I hate school, I love this place. I just see where it can be better and when they give me leeway I will charge with all my might. I guess I said some things in a negative way, It's more or less confusion. I have to ask these questions in a way they will get attention. Why doesn't CIA push students through the restaurants? By the way, Chef Shorner told me today that pastry students have never gone through the restaurants. Before Apple Pie they just finished class and graduated, so now I am confused. On a similar note, a culinary friend of mine randomly brought up dessert issue for his curriculum. I was going around today advertiseing the chefs comming up for demos and he said he was really into going because he isn't going to learn enough about dinner dessert through his curriculum. So now I am stumped. At first I questioned whether I should pursue the idea of pastry students in the restaurants, or leave it be and let the culinary students feed on the scraps CIA gives the. But then I think, if plated dessert is such a controversal issue on all sides of the board, how come it hasn't been adressed for all students? Isn't this the main tie between our programs? That and bread. You can't sit there and tell me not to worry about it. If I don't who will. There always has to be someone to push an idea right? Even if its a bad idea, you never know until you try. Also, CIA does not suck in the least, I still feel like its one of the best culinary schools in the world. There is a lot to learn here if you want to learn it. And I do. This another way I can learn more, WHY NOT MAKE THE ATTEMPT? I would rather be a loser that tried and failed, than a winner who never tried. Currently I am a loser, I pay for my school, I work on the weekends, I push the envelope for more. There is going to be someone to disagree with something I said once again. I may be wrong somewhere, I don't know, but I'll find out sooner if I am wrong if I throw the idea(s) out there.

the ones that are light and crispy all the way through were probably dried at about 120degreesF for 24 hours. If you raise the temp and crips them at about 220 and take them out just at the point of browning you will get that soft center with the crisp outter layer.

I love bread. I worked in a bakery making bread for about a year. The only part I didnt like was dealing with 40 year old children and foreign people that barely speak english and didn't want to listen. Other than that I have a strong passion for bread as well. The instructors and administrators are two completely different groups. I am not attacking the instructors at all. I am not attacking anyone. In fact the instructors seem to like me a lot because I am, what one chef said, kitchen folk. It's easy for them to talk to me about the group and the world of pastry. It's also easy for them to kid around with me because another chef agreed that I have a "thick skin". I have no problems whatsoever with the instructors and If and when I make a charge for a better pastry program I doubt any of them would oppose it. It is not the instructors any student is worried about, we are practically brothers with the faculty. The administration seems to be annoying the instructors even more than us, but they are getting paid as opposed to us paying. So the balance of interest toward change is much greater on our (the students) side.

I like it. I like it alot.

all I received was: And I replied to that. All of what I said was in response to that. don't just throw me to the side as if I can understand you. The reason why I replied what I replied was they make quite a bit of money so there should be no searching for money. Why can't they be more thorough with the applications and bring people in with the experience. I will not dare defend lesser quality for something that thinks they are the best, its a hippocrisy. I completely understand what you are saying, wether you want to believe it or not so don't get mad. As long as this school wants to claim ranks with Harvard, and....Yale, I think there requirements should be stricter. Put it this way, I don't feel like I am with the best of the best. if I went to harvard for law, I probably would feel the need to push the hardest I can go just to keep up with the other students. Here I don't feel that way, actually I feel like I am trying to tug the others along to want to be better. And I really don't want to hear there are people like this everywhere. Because yes its true but to different degrees. Give me a place where the degree is smaller and I will go there. That is where CIA should stand in the place of other culinary schools. But it doesn't.

the money is going into savings as far as I know. They plan to build a hotel across the street for a better bachelors program. I guess to take away business from cornell.

its not really a recipe just a technique. Looks like they took a spatulay and make a large dollop on the parchment line sheet pan. You can whip extremely low moisture products into meringue for flavoring. Most commonly used are powders, but I have used preserves. The whole trick to the texture is the baking technique.

Alan, I guess you really don't know much about culinary school. This is VERY different from a 4 year university. The differences are so far apart its hard to place the idea together. First of all this place is a money making machine. Who else has a business in this world where the employees pay to work? There are 4 4 star restaurants and a bakery all completely staffed. They only pay about 10% of the employees running the establishments. All of the stocks and breads, plus other items are used by the restaurants that were made in skills classes. someone once told me they buy, in one day, as much produce/food/supplies as one students yearly tuition. This place even charges $5 for a simple tour of the campus. Don't tell me they aren't making money. My first year tuition is greater than my sisters 4 at east carolina UNIVERSITY. Not only are they making money but they are getting greedy. the student totals have gone up from 98 (my class) to 120 (last class that came in). for one block difference they made $632,610 for that years tuition. 15 blocks of 100 students for a year is $43,132,500. If the amount they are spending on food/supplies is true which I don't know for sure, that comes to $10,495,575. If all is true, they are making $32,636,925 a year. On those simple stances. ok of course they are paying for faculty and staff and I am sure thats probably atleast $5mil. The also have to pay for electricity, water, heat, and cleaning supplies+graden materials. thats probably another $8mil. That still leaves them with nearly $20mil, not to mention how much money the restaurants make a year. Put them all together I bet its somewhere around $4mil. Just to say, I only calculated the AOS students. There are 3 bachelor classes ranging about 170 students. That is about another $12mil from tuition. I know my math may be pretty damm wrong, hell maybe not close, but it still measures the truth being that this shcool makes a lot of money. I would love to see the accounting sheets. But I must say I am not angry at them for making money, it is a great business plan and I am happy to pay them for the experience. But don't tell me its like other universities and they have a hard time making money. Infact believe it or not they have a hard to spending it. The students get a handsome budget to work with on our own. I have incredible liberty to do things on my own, which I am.

It seems the 6month requirement is still on the application. The Deans must have been confused, or maybe me, during our conversation a week ago about the requirement being dropped. It still is an issue to me because I know they don't follow the requirement guidelines when accepting students. 1/3 of my class has absolute no experience in the restaurant industry what so ever.

Could it be a sour dough farm bread?

First let me say that their are two bread classes and they supply the entire establishment with breads. That is a B&P course. Second I appreciate all the advice on tone, mood, english language, and attitude. I am not the only one writing this letter (though the driving force). I am especially looking for opinions and comments from people who have already been through school with situations like this and what they wish they could have changed. Plus I would love to hear from future students, or "student want-to-be's" to give me what they would like to experience if and when they would go to school. I am doing a few little things to try and show the power of the students if they (the students) will let me. With some demos from the high-end pastry chefs doing plated desserts. We (B&P club) may be able to gravitate the students attention to what could be. Who knows, maybe its all a waste of time. But I have taught myself one thing in the years leading up to comming to school, that is I don't want to stop trying. Anything that pops into my head that has the slightest chance of bettering pastry as I know it, I'll give it everything I have.

Alright look, this is a forum. Sooo sorry I used your instead of you're, and no instead of Know. I dont see where that was, but it doesn't matter. I have 20 minutes before my last class of the week, then I go to manhatten for the weekend. I dont have time to spell check this, and I dont need my adressment letter until monday. I will worry about the character, grammar and spelling of the letter when I do IT. Thanks for all the collective criticism but thats not what I am looking for. If you have any plausible ideas for me please note them. Also, I am tired of people tell me to sit back and expect something from a school, or try something different. I am not rash, I am not upset. I do know nothing ever gets anywhere without someone pushing. If you dont like me or anyone else pushing, then step aside or debate against it. If the school is going to change with the times the ideas of people in general, especially current, future, and past students should be heard on a constant base. The more people who express opinion and suggestion, the better. And the more frequent they do that the faster things change for the better. But if you stand there and let people push bad ideas you are going in the wrong direction. I am not idealistic, I just want things to better in my lifetime, and if possible during my class term. If they dont, they hoefully they will for the class succeeding me.

The point of this topic is simply I am preparing a letter for my student government to your Dean or pastry and baking expressing our concerns about the curriculum. We feel (especially I) that the curriculum needs a lot of work to share space with the culinary courses. Here at the CIA we go through the entire course and all we get to do at the end is work at our "Apple Pie Bakery". There problem is some of us go in here to specialize in restaraunt dessert. It seems to be a very hot topic online here and if you think about it, the majority of our celebrity pastry chefs are mainly, or solely affiliated with plated dessert large, or dinner operating pastry. In case anyone did not no "The Worlds Premier Culinary School" has completely eliminated the experience demand. It use to be 2 years a while ago, then it dropped to 6 months when I started. Now in recent days it has been stripped from the application. My question is, our we losing our expectations for students comming into school, and if we are, will the employers gradually lose there expectations of one holding this degree. I have noticed myself a slower pace education that I once anticipated being filled with lots to learn, strict guidelines, tough chefs, and hard work. This school is turning into a university of studies and not a trade. Even though that actually sounds nice, they are not keeping up with times. To me Baking and Pastry has huge differences. I actually consider myself more affiliated with the culinary crews than I do the bakers. It almost seems to me that there should be 3 degrees. Culinary, Pastry, and Baking. I also think there should be a higher amount of overlapping with each other. The problem is there are only 2 courses and you have to follow that step by step. Many of us students have discussed it and thought it would be nice to have a core to follow on, and select our own electives. You really dont get to intermingle with other students and learn how to deal with multiple personalities. There are many benefits to the block system how it goes, and I do see why they can't keep it as it iis. My greatest note thus far, that may have had some impact with the CTA, is the process of putting the B&P students in the Restaurants. Why do we have these 4 star restaurants and the pastry students cant even take advantage of the dessert menus. Quite honestly when I ate at the bounty I thought that every course I had was fantastic, except the desserts. They are so mundain and overplayed its sickening. Why cant the desserts get as advanced as the entrees and appetizers. If when CIA speaks, the world listens, how come it hasn't spoken in a while. Pastry needs a kick right now, it has the potential to soar. We all know the advances some of these great pastry chefs have taken, and everyone knows watching the pastry competitions are much more exciting that culinary competitions (maybe its because they dont happen as often, or maybe its the glit and glamour of the sugar and chocolate, or maybe they are just more interesting). Shouldn't CIA take advantage of this new era, grab it and never let go? Soon (in 9 weeks) I go on extern, and before I go I am going to do the best I can to revive our Baking an Pastry club to what it should be. So when I come back, and before I graduate this school will have open eyes towards the capabilities of pastry chefs and their art. If anyone has suggestions, comments, stories, qoutes, absolutely anything relavent to this subject I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Anthony.

So is corn syrup, honey, and maple syrup considered "polysaccharides" and not sugar? These sugars were just converted through hydrolysis. I understand the alchohol seperation, sorbitol, lacitol, erythritol, isomalt. But if sugars through hydrolisis are still considered "sugar" than how come hydrogenated sugars, above, aren't considered sugar since the categorizing of a "sugar" is commonly known to what affects that sense on the tongue. And since they all affect that sense of sweetness, aren't they considered sugars? The word sugar is just a dropped down, overly used word for sucrose. "A sugar is denoted by any word on the ingredient list that ends with "ose"." Wikipedia

Patrick, as the chefs here tell me, pate a glacer is a fine product for very large end use. Its mostly used in applications like glazes, ice creams, and bases (ie. for large amounts of spong cakes or sheet cake desserts, its good to have a bottom layer of pate a glacer for easy seperation and removal of slices. There are many uses for pate a glacer for cheaper notes (faster) in the kitchen. But if you are doing a nice piece, or chocolates, and need tempered chocolate, use tempered chocolate and dont replace it with pate a glacer.

First escargot - 2002 Groupers Grille Corolla, NC First raw oyster - 1990's Nags Head NC First black truffle, white truffle, foie gras, caviar, ox tail, beatle, larva, and some other things that need not say - CIA 2005 Hyde Park NY. Never ate something still living, have had things that were just killed. First De- Boning of a hind leg of a deer (venison) in 2005, Wilmington. (just killed) First whole roasted suckling pig in 2004, KDH NC First Pomegranate 2003 First Coconut 1995 First Liver, 1994 First souffle, 2000 maybe? First Hydra Colloid, 2005. First Foam- TBA First Beer - Early 90's First Wine, Zinfandel I suppose - Early 90's First Coverture piece of chocolate that I am sure of, 2001. So much more to taste, and so much time to do it.

sugar free? or sucrose free?

I dont know where Warren cutlery is but Rhineback is only like 10-15 minutes up the road.

I am not sure why you would want to sell spun sugar nests outside in a farmers market. Why dont you make them out of marzipan or chocolate if the temp doesn't get very high where you are.

Everyone tells me kitchen drawer is a rip off. I still get all my stuff online. I have heard there is a neat restaraunt supply store going east of 44 near K-Mart.

Flour does help with dry fruits It doesn't make them heavier, the flour absorbs into the batter, it grips to the batter. Your batter is too thin. Fold the ingredients at the end before putting in your pan. try this: 1# Butter 16.8oz Sugar 12.8 oz eggs .4 oz vanilla .2 oz salt 1 # Pastry Flour 1/10 oz baking powder 3.6 oz sour cream 8 oz garnish (raisins) You can multiply that if you want, it should give you right around two normal sized pound cakes.

what is the point of making only a couple tablespoons of marshmallows? Thats like trying to cook a couple tablespoons of sugar to softball stage, practically impossible. Just make a large enough batch that you can control. And why do you need "specialized expensive ingredients" when all you need is egg whites, sugar, and gelatine?

there is no defrosting sugar, thats like defrosting metal. Unfrotunately sugar absorbs water (humidity/moisture). To put any sugar work in a refrigerating (or lower) enviroment is worse than leaving it at room temperature. Your nests will last much longer if you seal them tightly with a dessicant at room temp.

Stabilize a banana chibouste. You can bring out intense spice flavors with the syrup used for the italian meringue.

There are many ways you can remedy this, it all depends on the exact conditions of your mousse. How sweet is it? How Dark is it? How soft is it? How much aeration does it have? If it could use more flavor that it would be easy to fold in more chocolate with gelatin, or just choclate. But if you dont have much air to compensate for the extra folding then I would make a second batch of mousse with enough gelatin to stiffin that batch and the batch you have. Its not necessary to make a full batch, just like a quarter with what should be enough gelatin for the whole. But then instead of making the mousse and folding into the old mousse, fold into your old mousse the manner in which you would prepare the mousse. You could, if it has enough aeration as it is, freeze the mousse as said before, pour on your glaze as needed and allow to thaw in refrigeration. That should be fine since the glace wont deflate the mousse when its cold.