phaelon56

A rather lively ongoing thread in the NY forum has been serving as the ongoing discussion point for uber high end sushi joint Masa, located in NYC's New Time Warner / AOL building, also the location for other high end restaurants including Thomas Keller's Per Se. A tangential topic has developed that deserves a general discussion thread of its own. How much is too much when it comes to spending for a restaurant dinner? Masa has a fixed price of $300 per head for the food, which includes an 18% service charge but does not include beverages or tax. Masa Discussion (banter about the prices gets liveliest beginning at Post #67 of the thread for those wishing to just review that aspect of the discussion) Some have suggested that it's simply too much money for a meal and couldn't possibly be worth that much... others suggest that it's simply a matter of what one can afford and how intensely one values the most ethereal of culinary experiences. It has also been posited that either you "get it" or you don't (i.e. why it's worth that much). The law of diminishing returns is well known to audiophiles - e.g. a $2,000 sound system will sound at least 4X better than a $500 system to most reasonably discerning ears but does a $10,000 system sound 5X better than the $2,000 system? To all but a few the answer is no but it's a question of priorities and values. If the intensity, subtlety, accuracy and aesthetic nirvana deliver by the pricier sound system yields an experience that is truly more meaningful by even a small margin... the price becomes less of an issue for those who can and do appreciate it (assuming that one can afford it). So what's your cut-off point and why? Assuming that you could afford to eat at the French Laundry, Masa, ADNY or any number of other high end restaurants in the US or elsewhere on a regular basis... would you do so? If you could and can afford such prices... can such an expensive meal represent a good value? Not that anyone asked about my own take but with limited high end dining experience, particularly in the realm of sushi/sashimi/Japanese food, it's doubtful that I'd be able to appreciate the subtleties and nuances of a $300 sushi meal. Especially not well enough to justify the tab relative to a respectable place that charges perhaps $100 or so for a comparable quantity of food. But it's a matter of what one values. A specific lot of Panamanian green coffee beans went for $21 per pound in a single 1,800 pound lot at this year's Best of Panama Internet coffee auction. That translates to roughly $50 per pound at retail prices in the US market or about $6 per cup if you walk into a cafe where the typical 12 oz cup of coffee sells for $1.50. Is it worth 4X as much per cup? Does it taste 4X as good? Of course not. Would I buy it? Yes, at least for special occasion drinking at home and although on occasion I'd even pay $6 to sip a cup with my current financial state I'd be hard pressed to drink several cups a day as my daily brew. But I would unhesitatingly buy it at $50 per pound if it properly roasted or $30 - $35 per pound green - because it's what matters to me.

As of last year they are actually owned by Starbucks but the 'bucks chose to keep the Seattle's best locations open under that name - probably to create the illusion of competition. Talk about having your bases covered. Starbucks Completes $72 Million Purchase of Seattle's Best Many of the Seattle's Best locations were operated by franchisees. I suspect the franchise situation may in part account for the need to keep the existing locations under the Seattle's best names. The 'bucks does not franchise unless you count the airport / tourist locations Starbucks kiosks which are all run on contract by Host Marriott Corporation. If you read referenced articles about large grocery chains where Seattle's Best bagged coffee started getting placement after the acquisition, it becomes evident that the focus of this move may have been to get more shelf space in supermarkets rather than more sales in cafe's.

Just Gogle a recipe for Chicken Liver Mousse or go straight to Epicurious. I like to make mine with just a bit less of the whipped crema folded in than most of the recipes call for but it's great stuff in any consistency. Good to make in advance as it's even better after the flavors meld for 24 hours. I serve with small toasted rounds of crusty bread and small pieces of crusty pumpernickel (if I can find a good one. have thin sliced red onions and cornichons available to add on as well. My favorite "make it on the fly and wing it with proportions" recipe is based on chicken livers but wouldn't lend itself to serving as an appetizer.

That Starbiucks oracle is da boomb. Really funny stuff. The bad news. I am.... The good news is that my sweetheart drinks grand caramel latte's and thus... she is a stripper (wait 'til she finds out!). Always wanted to try dating a stripper and now I am. As for the accuracy of the Oracle... I proudly identify myself as exactly what I am (not an executive), know I'm not "addicted" to caffeine because I've been addicted to damn near everything else already and know the difference... actually earn 20% of my annual income at an independent coffeehouse and all the $$ I spend at the 'bucks is when I'm on business travel and it gets expensed. I still have to get around to trying crack - somehow I missed out on that one before it became trendy

The one Starbucks sells for $99 as the Barista grinder is indeed a rebadged Solis but last time I checked it was the Solis 166 with the 'bucks name on it. The 166 was the predeccessor to the Maestro. It was/is a decnt grinder but the Maestro has some advantages - fewer static issues with the grounds collection bin, less clogging of the chute that empties the grounds into the bin etc. If the rebadged 166 was $60 or so I'd grab one but otherwise the Costco deal on the Maestro is the way to go.

And the chocolate souffle for two (about $12) is available at the wine bar. It's really, really worth it. Worth mentioning is the fact that although the tables are close to one another and the rom appears to have many hard surfaces, noise was never an issue and it was easy to conduct a conversation. And the service was remarkably friendly and efficient without being overly familiar.

Not at all a stupid question. In Italy, where the morning shot of straight espresso is sort of a national drink, many consume it with sugar. I personally prefer a tiny bit of sugar mixed with my espresso unless it's that rare instance where the beans/blend are so good and the quality of the shot so transcendent that sugar is superfluous (or worse yet masks the most subtle flavors). I also happen to have a personal preference for adding the sugar to the cup first so that the shot is pulled into the cup directly on the sugar - it seems to dissolve better that way. Cream is not added to espresso but you might try a machiatto with a bit of sugar added. The term is correctly interpreted to mean espresso "marked" or "stained" with a small bit of foamed milk (I do mean a small bit). Don't be steered wrong by the Starbucks "Machiatto"... it consists of a latte with lotso lotso milk, a tiny bit of espresso and caramel or some other such flavor. And whipped cream. Pretty much everything but rainbow sprinkles and a maraschino cherry Cafe Artigiano or JJ Bean should be able to whip you up a good authentic machiatto. See if you can get into the former cafe when Sammy Piccolo is manning the machine - he's so adept he can pour killer latte art even on a machiatto with that tiny bit of milk foam

Dinosaur has never been pretty. The one in Syracuse is very utilitarian on the outside and the one in Rochester is more so (actually kinda funky but not in a cool architectural way - more like a 'cue shack kinda funky). I'l hazard a guess that they'll have lines out the door and a one to two hour wait for tables within a month or two. If you're hungry you might just as well get over there soon. As for the foibles of visiting a restaurant that is experiencing the inevitable pains and bumpy spots that are typical in new openings.... you're likely to see very few of those issues here. They've been at this for quite some time with their other two locations and they're very good at dealing with volume business and a hectic environment. I really, really wish I could be there this weekend.

That's an outrageously good price. Most of the online sellers have them priced at about $110- $120 these days. Whole Latte Love Refurbs Specials has them at $87.20 and that's for a refurbished unit with a one year warranty. With heavy use (i.e. two or three pounds per week of grinding) oen can expect to need a burr change after two years of use. At this price point it's now contest - go to Costco for the new units. There's a oen year warranty on the refurbs but no assurance that the burrs are brand new. That same refurb page has some darn good prices on gaggia facttory return units - $239 for the Coffee model. It's crucial to use properly filtered water with a Gaggia as they are prone to internal boiler corrosion issues over time when moderately hard to hard water is used but they are great little machines. If you can't spring for a Rancilio Silvia or higher than that..... the Gaggia is a great choice.

I think it may in fact be one of those smoky fermented teas. At this point I rarely rule out anything until I've tried it. I was very skepticla about brewer's yeast as a topping to sprinkle on popcorn ntil I tried it. Sounded bizarre but it was truly delicious.

I really appreciate this sort of price clarification when discussing places that are considered to be "moderate" in price. So often, when people discuss a price per person, there's no clarification as to whether it includes desserts, appetizers, drinks, a glass of wine etc. That said.... there are places that will cheerfully plate your dinenrs and/or apps and salads for those choosing to share. Last summer I had dinner at Etats Unis on the UES and with such an approach... we had a truly memorable meal at what I consider to be a moderate price. Shared salad ($10), shared entree ($30-$32 IIRC), two glasses of wine, one tonic and an outrageously good chocolate souffle for two (it's only the second time I've ever tried chocolate souffle but it totally blew away the rendition I had at Danube for my birthday a couple years back). I think our total bill was about $100 including tax and tip. Very good value and despite having shared the salad and entree, the portions were such that I could barely finish the souffle (but it was so good I was compelled to do so).

I had really been hoping to get down to NYC this weekend and get an eGullet group over there (and also to see Anders Osborne's show at Tribeca Rock Club that night). Alas... tis not to be due to schedule conflicts but the Dino is definitely going to officially open today December 1st. They've already been running a soft opening since late last week and are operational. Good article in Syracuse Post Standard Famed rib joint settles into new digs near Cotton Club

Hey Kyle... good to see you here! I recognize your name form some other coffee forums where I've been known to hang out on occasion. I don't recall that we've had a thread dedicated to this. There has been a bit of discussion regarding spices as used in traditional Ethiopian coffee and most particularly in Thai iced coffee (cardamom is the key ingredient in that as well). The cardamom sounds good. I think a bit of fresh cinnamon grated over the grounds before an espresso shot is pulled could also be very interesting. Here's a weird one that's better than it sounds... the owner of the cafe where I work part time is very attuned to natural food and health products. She's really into the specific healing/helatful properyties of certain teas and sprinkles a certain Chinese tea on top of the grounds before she brews a pot of coffee. It's done with a light hand and the result is actuall quite interesting - it's like a subtle flavor overlay on top of the coffee flavor that's very distinct from it.

Kathi - Are you familiar with any of the Northeastern brands? Sabrett's is one of the better ones (or perhaps better known) available in the NYC area but there are some regional brands such as Hoffman's (sold by Wegman's) that are as good or better. I'l have to try the Chili Man's dogs next time I"m down there. We got tamales from the taco truck up near Huntersville on Sunday. He's a stone's throw north of Rte 73 on Rte 115 (Old Statesville Road). He parks outside the little bodega where the local Mexican residents buy the food products of their homeland. One of the tacos he had was braised/stewed tongue but I couldn't talk my sweetie into it. The white cornmeal of the tamales ranked among the best tamales I've ever had the but the filling was uninspired - seasoned ground beef with veggies. Frozen mixed veggies at that if my guess is correct (no way anyone cuts up perfectly square cubes of carrots - it had to be frozen or canned). If they ever do chicken or pork tamales I'll get some again. Both the chicken and pork fillings I tried in the "taco's" were fantastic - rich and really spicey - just like the stuff they sell at street stalls in Mexico.

Yet another swell weekend visit to see my beloved in Charlotte. What with all the Thanksgiving leftover's and the need to save money for an upcoming trip we didn't dine out much but I have a few things to report on... On Friday we got over to Java Passage in the Charlotte Design Center. It's a complex of buildings in the South End and houses many of Charlotte's creative firms (designers, advertising folks, film and television production etc). The espresso bar is in the lobby area of the center building - beautiful space and they're really doing a great job with the espresso and coffee. Counter Culture Coffee of Durham is their supplier and the owners have taken great care to ensure good product - it's worth a visit. IMHO it's the best espresso in Charlotte at present and will likely remain so unitl I change all of that in 2006 We ventured out Saturday to the Penguin Diner over in Plaza-Midwood. The fried dill pickles were all that folks said they would be (if you like that sort of thing and I do). Crispy... not oily... nice and tangy and the ranch dressing made a great complement. We were not very hungry and opted for two hot dog variations. The "Racetrack Dog" was an interesting mix of seasoned ground beef with coleslaw or something else of that sort as a topping. I opted for the corndog because I'd never had one that was fresh battered - only the frozen kind. The toppings and the batter were the good news... the dogs themselves were a disaster. They were the color and texture of generic supermarket baloney, had little flavor and appeared to be steamed rather than grilled. These were perhaps the least appetizing hot dogs I've ever seen. Are there better dogs available in Charlotte? (please tell me so and if so where!)

You absolutely MUST have breakfast at Blue Heaven. If they happen to have the shrimp with grits and white cheddar available, order it even if it sounds a bit odd. it's very, very good. Their "really good" pancakes are also something else and really worth trying. There's a place called Pepe's that's been highly recommended to me for breakfast. I tried one and it was okay but I think it may have been the wrong Pepe's (there are two). If you want to take a picnic lunch out someday there's also a good gourmet grcoery / deli by the marina. Many, many people swear by the Half Shell raw bar over at the Bight. I was extremely underwhelmed by both the conch fritters (greasy) and the conch chowder (bland) that I ate there but I've subsequently read/heard so many good reports that my experience may have been a fluke (that or perhaps the conch dishes just aren't their strong point).

Have you tried the offerings from George Howell's new operation Terroir Coffee ? He's a very well known and highly respected guy who had a chain of coffeehouses in Boston back in the pre-Starbucks days and, among other activities, started the Cup Of Excellence program that recognizes and rewards excellence at the source from individual coffee growers. I haven't yet tried any of their coffees as I rarely have coffee at home these days (I'm around it at work constantly) but have heard very good feedback on both their bean quality and their roasting style/consistency. On a related note... I had the good fortune to meet and chat this past weekend with Dave Haddock of Counter Culture Coffee (Durham NC based). That's an outfit that is really on the ball, both from a quality standpoint and from a socially conscious and ethical perspective. I haven't yet had a chance to try their drip coffee but the espresso I sampled at Java Passage in Charlotte's South End was excellent. Counter Culture sells through Whole Foods (not sure if they do so outside of the Southeast but they're worth looking for) and a large percentage of their product is Fair Trade, certified organic and in many cases shade grown / bird friendly as well.

My brother used to make this exact sandwich when we were kids (and Mom asn't watching) but he added sweetened flake coconut to it as well. Then there was the "chicken sandwich" that a small local BBQ shack in my town used to serve. It was a complete chicken leg with bones, drenched in fiery BBQ sauce and served between two pieces of white bread. The bread was just used to sop up the juice - you couldn't eat it as a sandwich but they called it one.

I disagree. The waiter does not prepare the food. Other than ensuring that it's picked up and served promptly once the kitchen has completed the order, how is a waiter to know there's a problem unless the customer is grimacing and making faces when attempting to eat the food.. I still contend that it's the one significant opportunity a customer has to complain and ask that problems be rectified. I do agree that anyone foolish enough it say "Fine" when i'ts not has comleted the "contract". They've also allowed themselves to be sucked into paying for a meal that was not up to par if there were problems and they chose not to complain. I've worked in the retail and wholesale trades, food and beverage service and hte technology industry. When I'm a client/customer, I consider it my obligation as part of the vendor/consumer relatiomnship, to bring problems and issues to the attention of the supplier or service provider. That's my side of the contract. When I'm acting in the role of vendor or service provider, there may be times at which I'm unaware that there's a problem unless someone complains. In my current role, I don't build our products, do the marketing or write the user documentation. In my role as a back-line support engineer, however, I'm extremely grateful when people take the initiative to complain if problems exist or arise - I can't amend, correct or improve problems that I'm unaware of. It should be no different when I dine out.

To help calm down the rabid fans of Chicken McNuggets

Lower your expectations a bit if you have them raised high but expect to find some good food here and there, particularly if you focus on locally available ingredient such as fresh seafood. Here's a thread to take a gander at Key West Bars and Restaurants my short version.... - Blue Heaven is a must for breakfast - dinner's pretty good too - El Siboney for Cuban - moderately priced family place - A&B Lobster house for lobster and steak - conventional but said to be decent - Half Shell Raw Bar for raw clams and oysters - Alice's La Te Da for more upscale "fine dining" - Hilton's "Latitudes" on Sunset Key (short water shuttle ride from the hotel near Mallory Square) a bit pricey for slightly above average hotel type dining but an outside beach table with the tiki torches at night is extremely romantic - Kelly's is said to be good for drinks only. Ditto for Louie's Backyard - great view but food is said to have slipped in recent years. - Good conch fritters on the pier at Mallory Square dutring sunset celebration but IMHO the ones from the cart by the aquarium entrance are better (but only available during day time hours). - Mangia Mangia for fresh pasta - moderately priced There are at least one or two upscale fine dining places in KW that have opened since I was last there. In a few of the the most upscale places men will generally wear a polo shirt and dress slacks or pressed Dockers (or their equivalent) but that's about as dressy as it gets. In all but a handful of places one can walk in for dinner dressed in T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops. I don't but it's not uncommon.

IMHO different types and levels of service are appropriate for different types of establishments. At a casual or neighborhood restaurant that has a decidedly informal feel, I'm not at all put out by a server who introduces themselves by name when they first arrive at the table. I expect a higher degree of formality at more formal and more upscale establishments. I respectfully submit that the statement : is a bit unfair. They don't need to "beg" and I've never personally seen behavior from a server that lent that impression but perhaps I don't eat out regularly enough to have witnessed that. Some servers seem to genuinely enjoy their work and thrive on the opportunity to interact with customers and meet their needs. Others go through the motions. I tip accordingly. Our local small-town restaurant reviewer is frequently off the mark but she always properly identifies the "youse guys school of serving" when she sees it With all due respect to jackal (I do regularly enjoy your posts), I also must disagree with this statement: A question like that requires and calls for a direct response. If there's any issue with my food, regardless of what that issue may be (excepting my having not understood what I was really ordering), that question is affording me the opportunity to ask for it to be corrected. It's in the nature of kitchens and serving that mistakes do happen on occasion. I rate an establishment in part based on how they respond to problems and correct them. If they handle things in an appropriate manner I'll typically return there and give them another chance if the overall experience was good and/or they showed real potential. If they shrug their shoulders and fail to address the problems it's telling me exactly what I need to know: they don't value my business enough to have an interest in seeing me return (e.g. the waitress at a local Mexican restaurant who responded, when my dining partner and I both commented on the excessive saltiness of the burritos... "Gee - that's what everyone's been saying all evening when they get that dish". Duh. Then she walked away. So did I.).

I'd try any of the African groceries up in harlem on or near 125th Street - it should be available readily enough. Or try Teff Online

In my town I give places a second chance and on rare occasions even a third before I write them off. In part that's because I once waited table and tended bar, both for a busy moderately priced restaurant and for an upscale catering service, but also because I live in a small city (population 150,000) that has limited upscale dining options. When a new place opens I really want them to succeeed and hope to have another good place to go. I tried a new place the other night - has been open for less than a month. It's an Italian restaurant (I would say AS IF we need another one of those but we have few that are really good despite the large number of them in town). Was it execptional? No.... but it has promise. The veal was very nicely cooked and remarkably tender (as it should be but plenty of places serve tough veal in this town). The soup was excellent (beef with artichoke) - a trifle salty but very good. The fried calamari with marinara sauce was outstanding - the best I've ever had. Tried carrot cake for dessert and it was just average. Service was good - a few minor rough spots. Will I go back? Yes, of course. They have good atmosphere, are trying hard and doing many things the right way despite some shortcomings. But if I was in a real restaurant city like NYC, Vancouver, San Francisco or so many otherwhere there are a tremendous number of options I wouldn't bother going back unless I was in the neighborhood and it happened to be convenient.

The smoked turkey legs, assuming one can find them in the Kosher variety, will work great. Many folks in the African-American community no longer use smoked neckbones or ham hocks in their greens for health and/or religious reasons (both the Muslim and Seventh Day Adventist faiths have dietary prohibitions against pork). I've been havings with the turkey legs for the last couple years and enjoy them very much. Judging by the fat visible the next day on the surface of refrigerated leftover greens.... there's no shortage of fat in the smoked turkey legs. I don't thibnk it's really necessary to add any additional fat - the untrimmed leg with skin has plenty.