MaxH

Thanks for posting that, eac. I'm going to check out that book. (I very much resonate with the experience of learning that good fresh pasta is a different animal, and can be delicious with the simplest seasonings.) I'm not surprised at all to hear that Paul Bertolli would do a good job of this. (Like Marcella Hazan, he had Italian ancestry and grew up seeing its cooking in action. He also worked professionally in Italy.) Locally he is perhaps even better known (before Oliveto) as the low-key longest-tenure chef of Chez Panisse in Berkeley (1980s-1990s). With Alice Waters he co-authored Chez Panisse Cooking (1988) which opens with recollections of his Italian grandmother's cooking.

This is sort of a perennial topic online; some existing eG threads, including a fairly recent one I started (below), discuss fresh-pasta nuances. A little perspective: The cookbooks that introduced much of the US to practical pasta making (and other delights of Northern Italian cooking), and paved way for these other recent authors, were Marcella Hazan's Classic Italian Cookbook (1973) and its sequel (1978). Reissued more recently (but in abridged form) as a single volume. Marcella Hazan was to N. Italian cooking in the US what Julia Child was to French (and unlike Julia Child, who wasn't from France and who started cooking about age 40, Hazan grew up cooking in the milieu she wrote about). Marcella's books surface periodically here, as in this and this thread. Recent thread on variations of homemade pasta recipes. "A properly made ragù clinging to the folds of homemade noodles is one of the most pleasurable experiences accessible to the sense of taste." -- Marcella Hazan, 1973

Worth knowing about for out of season or places where they're uncommon: Some regions use Chanterelles in quantity, and routinely sell canned ones. (I've especially noticed that in Germany, a place so mushroom-addicted I've seen markets with canned wild mushrooms comparable in size to the canned-soup sections in US markets. Germany calls Chanterelles Pfifferlinge.) A canned Chanterelle source sold theough Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Roland-Chanterelles-pfifferlinge-7-9-Ounce-Pack/dp/B001EO7J7I Some local friends routinely make a Chanterelle "bread pudding" for the Thanksgiving holiday in November. It is VERY good. We may (or even the more toxic Omphalotus olearius); it's more that they don't get confused much in practice, certainly not by professional gatherers or people who know Chanterelles well. Just as the so-called false morel doesn't look exactly like a morel if you know morels well. Despite misconceoptions of some wild-mushroom phobics, who act as if every edible wild mushroom were easily mistaken by experts for something lethal, there are a few edible/choice varieties, a very few very dangerous ones, and little overlap; most mushrooms are neither choice nor very toxic and most "toxic" mushrooms, including those just mentioned, have only temporary effects.I distinguish those hazards from the deadly Amanita phalloides, mistaken (rarely) for a bolete when immature, more often for a S. E. Asian mushroom when mature. The latter error, among S. E. Asian immigrants familiar with the lookalike, caused most N. American mushroom-poisoning deaths in recent decades. Another distinction, requiring true expertise, is sorting out the edible Amanita species -- as my father used to do (multiple Amanitas, as well as multiple Chanterelles, puffballs, etc. grew on his land). Do you have a reference for that? / My immediate thiught is that you may be confusing it with certain members of the Coprinus group - notably the "Common Ink Cap" Coprinus atramentarius. The information came from multiple Chanterelle gatherers (some of whom were also scientists and some of whom also reported experiencing this effect!) when I was first cooking Chanterelles in quantity some 30 years ago. It's possible that they confused the mushroom type. If I find a good source I'll post it.(Note: This posting was not actualy "edited." Stupid browser originally let fly the raw quotations prematurely.)

One of the most hardcore home cooks and winemakers I know is also a die-hard mushroom forager. He has done local journalism on food and mushrooms. His Web site includes a wild mushroom cookbook from extensive cooking experiments, with photos. There are references to many wild mushroom species, especially of the Western US, but as I mentioned earlier, mushroom recipes tend (with a few exceptions dependent on peculiar mushroom flavors or pairings) to work with many species. This friend taught me tips on mushroom foraging (including finding choice blewits in an unlikely urban vacant lot around old trees). In a browser, the table of contents may appear as a scrolling display to the left. http://www.rrich.com/msframeset.html

Just like any other mushrooms. You'll find dirt and grit around the base and in the gills (longer than in cultivated mushrooms, obviously), sometimes dirt on top. You can easily clean them under a trickle of water, with a fine brush; drain on newspaper or paper towels. They may retain a little of the water in their gills but not enough to affect cooking. (I'm reflecting on decades of experience with them.) Be alert for small maggots which are not unusual (unattractive, but I assume, harmless to eat, cooked with mushrooms, since they are - after all -- composed of mushroom themselves, just rearranged). Once any wild mushroom plants fruit, there's a scramble among diverse mushroom fans to eat them -- humans have competition. That of course is how the mushrooms propagate. In my region (San Francisco area), chanterelles are the common wild mushroom (not the only type, but the most common) and prolifically abundant in the wooded areas after rains. Many people are unaware of how plentiful they are, but it's not unusual for foragers to find more than they can carry, fresh and in good condition. Periodically they show up in quantity in local markets when professional foragers get to work. (They're one of the several famous wild mushroom types simultaneously classified edible/choice and distinctive-- not easily mistaken for dangerous types.) I caught up on this thread with suggestions (apparently overlapping earlier existing threads) but as a rule, any recipe good with cultivated mushrooms works with wild mushrooms too, the texture and cooking properties are the same. Chanterelles just add a very pleasant distinctive mushroomy flavor, sometimes with violet or truffle hints, a little different from morels but in the same general direction. I recall a peculiarity of chanterelles, a biochemical quirk, harmless but possibly disconcerting. For some reason, many people who talk about wild mushrooms don't appear to know about this. In varying concentrations, chanterelles contain something that interferes with alcohol metabolism (I assume it either blocks or swamps the alcohol-dehydrogenase enzyme group that clears alcohol from the blood and begins converting it to useful energy -- other substances can do that too). Normally, when you take in alcohol, the amount in your blood relects a difference between your intake rate and the counteracting scavenging action of the enzymes. If the scavenging stops, you get a higher than usual blood alcohol level for a given intake rate. I've heard anecdotes of people consuming chanterelles in quantity (like half a pound, not unusual when they're locally available) and getting unusually tipsy from a glass or two of wine. Please don't tell the binge-drinking college kids about this.

It's a pretty wide brief, "California Musts" -- state has the area and population of a good-sized European country, and different things tend to be spread apart geographically. But I second Carolyn's comments: 1. The best Mexican food is to be found in the state's Southern parts -- I'm from the Northern, and with notable scattered exceptions (often representing Mexican cuisines uncommon in US, from specific Mexican states) the standards of Mexican food are much weaker in the North. It's embarassing to admit occasionally having better Mexican food in Boston, much further from Mexico. 2. San Francisco is not exactly known for steak houses! That's a perennial minor discussion point online. Steaks are taken much more seriously around the Plains states, Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, also Chicago where the US meat packing industry developed. Having traveled in those and other places I was enlightened. SF historically had certain specialties: Abalone, crabs, sourdough French-type bread. The abalone are all but fished out, but farmed ones can be found in better, creative restaurants. Local crab and its specialties are popular but seasonal. Sourdough bread is everywhere (though I wouldn't travel just for that) with a trend toward old-world-style artisanal bakeries, including and considerably popularized by Acme Bread Co. (1983) in Berkeley, a spin-off (and bread supplier) of the restaurant Chez Panisse there. Acme spurred several other firms and is publicly credited now with demonstrating the viability of small quality bread bakers. The Michelin Guide began reviewing SF in 2006, LA in 2007, and (excepting the latest-hippest up-to-the-minute fashionable venues that obsess some online food-forum readers, especially young ones) it gives a decent compact panorama of the more unique and creative restaurants -- a source of orientation for the serious gastronomic visitor seeking background information from consistent and experienced perspective. I've done a lot of food-related travel, and it has the kind of information I've found useful elsewhere. The opposite extreme would be vox-populi polling-type sources like Zagat and the online site Yelp. The latter appeals to youngish diners, the kind that text constantly on their cell phones and are full of opinions on everything; they fiercely defend that site, but as a relatively experienced local I've found so much sheer misinformation, narcissistic blather, outright factual error, and unrepresentative comments about places I know well (and for full flavor, the site is embroiled in lawsuits from restaurants claiming offers to tailor the "reviews" in exchange for advertising buys) that I'd steer the serious professional as far away from it as possible.

I'm wholly (holistically? ;-) with you semantically, Florida, and thanks for quoting the legal definitions. Since this thread concerns marketing hype and consumer susceptibility, it's proper I think to mention a crucial flip side of "organic" farming, often overlooked or underpublicized. As BadRabbit aptly mentioned, some of the nastiest health hazards are 100% natural. UC-Davis, for my occasional quips about its scientific winemaking (influence of Paul Draper, who is local), has a leading Food Science faculty that includes a food toxicology group. For years it has studied both manmade and natural toxins in food plants (plants produce some of these to deter insect predators or respond to insect stress) with remarkable findings including increased net toxicity in some crops grown organically. They stress that this is extremely plant-specific and precludes generalizing about the subject (including dismissing organic farming). From researching a few years ago I summarize and quote some of this below, fine print to save space but you can copy/paste, or magnify in your browser, if desired. (Authors are all at UC-Davis.) Finally a biochemist friend sends me some disturbing research papers and has, himself, abandoned eating any US-produced processed peanut or corn products. He says the plants employed for processed uses (peanut butter, tortilla chips, etc) tend more to be the cosmetically damaged pieces and they often get that way from fungal infestation, and that the US, perhaps reflecting industry lobbying, has lax limits on mycotoxin content compared to other countries. "Natural is often equated with safe and wholesome. ... That pesticides may prevent the development of hazardous natural toxins was new information and not believed by some consumers (Bruhn et al., 1998). Consumer education is needed in this area." --Christine Bruhn in Jackson, Knize, and Morgan, Impact of Processing on Food Safety. Advances in Medicine and Experimental Biology series, volume 459. Springer, 1999, ISBN 0306460513. From Carl K. Winter and Sarah F. Davis, Journal of Food Science, November/December 2006, a broad survey paper citing both positive and negative effects of organic cultivation: "Glycoalkaloids are naturally occurring toxins produced from plants such as potatoes and tomatoes, and they provide insect resistance." Levels increase in potatoes under stress. Attempt to breed "an insect-resistant potato variety was abandoned when it was determined that glycoalkaloids were detectable at levels that could potentially cause acute toxicity in humans." Linear furanocoumarins in celery develop at elevated levels "under stressful conditions such as fungal attack ... Linear furanocoumarins are known for their ability to cause contact dermatitis and are considered possible human carcinogens." Breeding to enhance pest resistance in celery also caused "10- to 15-fold increases in linear furanocoumarin levels, which can cause photophytodermatitis in grocery-store workers." "Mycotoxins are another example of naturally occurring toxins" thought to be affected by pesticides. "Development of mycotoxins in food crops could be altered through the use of fungicides as well as through the use of insecticides to prevent primary insect damage, thereby minimizing the opportunities for secondary fungal colonization of damaged plant tissue. Aflatoxins are frequently detected in several food products, including corn and peanuts, and can be potent mutagens, carcinogens, and teratogens. Fumonisins have been implicated epidemiologically as mycotoxins that could cause human esophageal cancer and have been shown to cause cancer and liver damage in rats, pulmonary edema in pigs, and leukoencephalomalacia in horses. Tricothecene mycotoxins frequently contaminate grain products, and low to moderate consumption of these toxins, particularly deoxynivalenol, may cause immune-system problems and gastrointestinal toxicity in animals (Murphy and others, 2006)." Winter/Davis summary: "While many studies demonstrate qualitative differences between organic and conventional foods with respect to pesticide residues and nutrients, it is premature to conclude that either food system is superior to the other. Pesticide residues [and] naturally occurring toxins, nitrites, and polyphenolic compounds exert their health risks or benefits on a dose-related basis, and data currently do not exist to ascertain whether the differences in the levels of such chemicals between organic foods and conventional foods are of health significance." (Edited because typesize "1" is really too small)

Some of those are just basically baking-powder components, and it's probably worth mentioning in case anyone is unaware of it that many chemicals on that list occur naturally either in your own body or in food plants anyway. (English word "Potassium" -- Europe calls it Kalium, the Latin -- is linked with "pot ash" because Potassium is abundant in plants, especifially trees, therefore fireplace ashes -- also in animals like us.) I mention it because there's a type of head-in-the-sand hubris in the US where people balk at "chemicals" on any ingredient lists, without bothering to figure out that their own ingredients list contains many more chemicals, including some of those used explicitly in food. Or people who swear that any MSG makes them break out in hives, then harmlessly consume natural sources of it without knowing. That sort of thing.

I've heard a lot of armchair expertise (on the same topic) that you evidently don't know about either (once again, you've responded to your own interpretation and don't seem to realize it). To prevent anecdotes that clash with sweeping patronizing statements, I suggest not making such. Anyway we're communicating poorly here so let's drop it. I like DanM's example of relevant restaurant hype. I've seen some of that around here too. It's like today's counterpart to ostentatious menu styles of other times. For instance my main recollection of the high-end restaurant Magnolia Grill in N. Carolina in early 1990s is the train of modifiers preceding each ingredient name. Not mere Meyer lemons, for instance, but W clone X county Y-raised Z-harvested Meyer lemons -- and this happened to most of the featured ingredients. Reading the menu was exhausting rather than appetizing.

Um, please read more carefully. I described a group of grower/winemakers with widely respected results who claim certain biodynamic steps, and in particular, I mentioned one measure that they describe within that broad umbrella that turned out to have sound basis (the synergistic root microbes), which you can certainly research further if you want to look into it. That's all I wrote, a limited accurate narrative description for whatever it's worth. (No claims of proof of general biodynamic efficacies, or any such broad nonsense; and in response to a glib sweeping characterization of what biodynamic farmers "believe" and patronizing dismissal of such things "in this day and age" despite the demonstrated results -- not causality -- that I illustrated.) I've written and refereed rigorous technical articles for decades, conscious of the distinction between arguments from evidence and those connoting mind-reading (farmers "believe," "you are ... insinuating," etc.).

I didn't ask before, but why are you interested specifically in long-term refrigerator storage? Why not just salt your confit for flavor as the modern recipes routinely do, refrigerate for brief storage and freeze for longer storage? Those are the instructions for storing commercially made fresh confits also. Without any anti-botulism steps, refrigeration is still reliably safe for a few days (the upper limit seems to be two weeks, anyway that's a legal limit in US regulations for commercial food -- I think it's in Title 9 CFR 424.21, which has many such details). Refrigeration is still safer than storage at higher temperatures because fewer C. botulinum strains can grow at refrigerator temperatures, and those are more associated with seafood and marine soils.

Sorry, meant to write (nitrates, nitrites). N.B., Nitrates convert biochemically into nitrites anyway, when used as preservatives. After data emerged in the 1970s about carcinogenic nitrosamines forming in meats preserved this way, standard practice changed to (1) limit the nitrite amount, (2) stop using nitrates entirely, and (3) add antioxidants like erithrytol or ascorbic acid (Vitamin C). It seems that some of the same chemistry happens naturally in certain well-established safe vegetables too (like lettuce), but there the natural presence of antioxidants like ascorbic acid counters the harmful effect. In recipes and older general writing, "salt beef" or "salt pork" means beef or pork cured with nitrites/nitrates, because that worked much better than plain salt. "Corned" beef is another term for salt beef (but with more specific connotations).

I'm glad the situation is so clear to you. I've spent time with some leading Burgundian winemakers who (though they don't use it for marketing purposes) employ techniques they call biodynamic, and swear by them. That's one of the places that helped popularize the idea years ago. As these people make, by international expert consensus, among the very best and most sought-after wines on the planet, few can doubt that ultimately they know what they're doing. Also, these vignerons are often very humble, and from families who have made wine there literally for many centuries -- they tend to decribe their role as midwives, saying repeatedly that nature makes the wines and the "winemakers" just do their best not to screw it up. I know that at least some of the practices they describe (and that others pooh-pooh from the expert viewpoint of the armchair) have abundant scientific basis. For example, taking steps to sustain certain synergistic micro-organisms. These organisms, and I believe this wasn't understood until relatively recently, act as intermediaries for the vine roots -- which can penetrate 50 or 100 feet down through rock fissures -- converting some of the minerals from the rocks to forms the vine roots then assimilate, and convey to the aboveground fruit, affecting the wine's exquisite flavor. But since you don't believe all that, if I ever entertain you, I'll spare you the rare Burgundies. I can always offer clean, simple, high-yielding, sterile, UC-Davis-approved scientific winemaking since that's the evident preference. Don't get me wrong: I refer only to low-key use of various methods called "biodynamic" by leading experienced professional agriculturalists. Terms like that employed as marketing hype to eagerly gullible consumers are a different situation. (Incidentally it's thermonuclear, not "thermal nuclear.")

Sam, as a general reminder, most of this thread's existing content is in earlier postings (what I wrote yesterday just re-summarizes, answering a request on another thread). What I have about salt preservation appeared around this post and contrasts old, pre-refrigeration French confit recipes (I have some, and an example is in the linked posting) and modern recipes; Harold McGee also emphasized this difference. With the disclaimer that I'm not a source of any of this information, just a messenger, the buzzword for your specific question is "curing." As I recall the history, the main reason saltpeter cures (nitrates, nitrates) came into use originally, hundreds of years ago, was to prevent botulism; I believe plain salt works too, but at a higher concentration (and with more degradation of the meat over time from other factors). For real information I refer you again away from any offhand advice whatever, and to the Usual Sources (public advisories). In a brief check, I found a useful-looking overview with data, assembled by the University of Georgia (US), Here, and other authoritative info is surely abundant. I began checking US FDA, but a major revision to its useful CFSAN central site has broken external links to it. But you can search countless food topics directly at http://www.fda.gov/Food and especially http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/default.htm . Yajna, all I can offer to your comment is that one condition I quoted above that prevents C. botulinum growth is moderate food acidity (pH 4.6 or below is the standard official number), which occurs automatically with many fruits. It's done artificially with some processed foods (pesto sauce, some preserved vegetables) by adding fruit-type acids, and the amount needed is small enough that many foods can tolerate it without changing flavor much. That too I believe appears earlier in this thread. Proper pressure sterilization as described above will also eliminate the issue. Please read the (international, multilingual) WHO Botulism Fact Sheet linked in my previous posting. Processed foods not meeting listed conditions can develop botulinum toxin (people in the US have died from various homemade preserved vegetables) and would bring health department enforcement if done commercially. ("I've done it many times without harm" is a distracting false comfort ignoring the reality of the situation. The Italian-immigrant patriarch who died from his oil-preserved mushrooms, mentioned earlier, and sickened his relatives, had also served them often before without ill effect; he finally drew the loaded chamber in the metaphoric Russian Roulette.)

Sure, just as there are microbrews. Products like many single malt whiskys (that's how they spell it there) of Scotland, distilled in batches in pot stills or alembics (and they've been doing that much longer than Archer Daniels Midland and the like have sold industrial alcohol by the tank-truck). There are many such small quality distillers, including in the US. The small-batch Cognac-like brandies by Germain-Robin and Jepson are well known. Near me, St. George Spirits is a larger firm but still makes things like small-batch single-malt whiskey (as they spell it) in a very fine, faintly fruity style, distilling it from fermented barley mash. Not the grain neutral spirits and the food-chemist's kit of heptanoic ether and the other ethers, aldehydes, ketones, and esters of artifice that never, alas, saw the inside of any copper pot still or alembic.

Per discussion (a few posts ago) about moving safety questions elsewhere, I've answered this in the existing "NY Times" safety thread.

Safety question redirected from the current July 2010 "Slow cooker duck confit" thread: There are multiple types of food safety concerns. 180 F (actually, anything above about 140 F [Note 1!]) kills bacteria and larger organisms such as trichinia parasites. From the viewpoint of preventing such diseases, specific cooking temperature is of concern mainly with very low temperature cooking like sous-vide, still safe if done right. Botulism, topic of this thread, is a separate issue, independent of all that. As I mentioned before in your Slow-Cooker Confit thread, Daniel, it actually has little to do with appliance temperature settings and more to do with what happens after cooking. That's because, not to repeat this point endlessly, killing dormant botulinum spores requires 250 F at the food itself, and you can't reliably raise water-bearing foods to 250 F without the steam autoclaving mandatory in commercial canning (in metal cans, or temperature-tolerant soft containers like retort pouches and aseptic "brick" packs). The fatal 1971 US botulism outbreak happened through inadequate pressure sterilizing of canned potato-leek soup meant to be served cold. (That incident sharply raised US awareness of botulism, which has since faded.) Any food, regardless of cooking details, can later germinate botulism spores (which in turn create the dangerous toxin) when stored anaerobically (e.g. sealed airtight or immersed or coated with fat), unless the food (1) has high enough acid content, (2) contains strong enough chemical preservatives, or (3) was properly steam-sterilized to 250 F [Note 1]. Some C. bot. strains grow at refrigerator temps., but they don't grow instantly, and the time factor works in your favor. These details are elaborated earlier in this thread and in the official link below. Botulinum spores are remarkably tough: One famous fatal US outbreak came from mushrooms boiled for hours in wine -- which would easily kill almost any other foodborne pathogen -- then stored, cool, under oil for several days. As also detailed upthread, modern confit recipes satisfy none of those three preventive conditions. That's why standard authoritative advice (and instruction to professional cooks) is simply to refrigerate fresh confits and serve them within a few days, or freeze (which interrupts any C. bot. growth). Heating the food thoroughly for a few minutes before serving also destroys any accumulated botulinum toxin. That safety precaution is automatic if you oven-crisp your duck, or use it for further cooking like a stew (e.g., cassoulets). Note 1: For specifics, check official public-health guidlines such as WHO Fact Sheet 270. Do not rely on offhand advice. Some published confit recipes also neglect this simple precautionary information.

In case this wasn't clear to the OP, the neighborhood Carolyn mentions is the same one where the daughter will be studying (or very near). CCAC (I didn't realize its name had changed!) is near where College Ave. meets Broadway. A little north, toward the Berkeley border, is the College/Claremont intersection near Rockridge BART station. A little farther north is the College/Alcatraz intersection. They're all full of small neighborhood businesses; first two in particular are commonly called the Rockridge area. This are became known over the 1980s for little independent restaurants of various kinds. Students with "almost no income" are not exactly unusual at CCAC, and the diversity of cafés around there -- unless this has changed since I hung out there some years back -- serves a range of budgets. One caution simply to be aware of, which some people gloss over, is the presence of a housing project not far from College and Rockridge, which has long been associated with a higher than usual crime rate in the neighborhood. (By the way, Carolyn, I've spent some time on and in the Bay Area Pacific and measured surface temps. between 48 and, after unusual hot spells, 60 F. Pleasant places to visit the Pacific -- more inviting, generally, than SF's Ocean Beach -- are Stinson Beach to the north of the Golden Gate and the whole series of state beaches from Santa Cruz south, including one of the largest beaches, called Manresa. Visitors should be aware that none of these places is very near North Oakland, the area we're discussing. The nearest is probably SF's sometimes bleak-looking Ocean Beach which shares SF's near-perpetual fog. That's around a half hour drive in moderate traffic.)

That's very reasonable. But please note that despite its name, that particular thread is not eG's main discussion on this subject. Two earlier 2009 threads discussed confit safety in much more depth: NY Times Publishes Guide for Cultivating Botulism, and Garlic in Olive Oil. I cited both in post #2 above. The later "Confit Safety" thread restarted the subject briefly but failed to mention the earlier threads or take note of their content. It also repeated, unchallenged, the same safety error that had earlier brought criticism on the NY Times. If anyone wants to discuss further, I'd be happy to continue in the NY Times thread.

I've had occasion to visit many popular US steakhouses in the last few years, both independent and chain. They might offer clam chowder, or sometimes lobster bisque, especially on Fridays, or when featuring seafood specials. Those are relatively rich or filling soups, distinct from the clear beef-broth-based soups I mentioned earlier -- "French" onion soup is the utter classic -- exploiting the meat trimmings and bones that are normal by-products anyway in a steakhouse kitchen. Which can make some very good clear soups indeed.

A fringe benefit is you also get a supply of custom-made pickled peppers (well established as useful in sandwiches, quesedillas, and so on). Mine look just like sliced preserved Jalapeños I've bought in jars for these purposes.

I tried kayb's method, hot vinegar into a preheated jar with sliced Jalapeño peppers (partly seeded and pithed, to control the heat). The result is rich with complex pepper flavors, not just heat -- great stuff! Now (like a little kid with a hammer) I look for things to use it on. (Having only white and balsamic vinegars handy, I looked for cider vinegar at two markets -- both out of stock. Rather than pursue that detail I used white vinegar. The peppers don't seem to mind.)

Thanks Mark, I share your interests in both confits and safe cooking. I'm just amazed that people who, I'd guess, don't eat raw pork, and wash up after handling raw poultry, somehow balk at corresponding precautions to easily prevent botulism. Wrongly and unnecessarily labeling them "Trying to scare people away from making confit;" assembling elaborate statistical rationalizations for missing the point. (If you happen to encounter C. bot., spores, then your risk is either high or zero, depending whether you follow common-sense precautions. I wish lightning strikes and traffic hazards were as easy to control.) MaxH: "be careful about botulism, an infrequent but deadly food-poisoning risk. Current popularization of confits often ignores this point" bmdaniel: "I am very skeptical that there is any scientific basis for the above (in particular the idea that keeping food at refrigerator temperatures is a botulism risk)" [Note: Point came from WHO and FDA food-safety information, as I'd explained. It's the reason those advisories, and regulated food-preparation practices, instruct to use refrigerated fresh confits within a few days. That interval is too short for the bacteria, even if present, to grow dangerously. -- MaxH] Shalmanese: "you're more than 20 times more likely to die from being struck by lightning than from a bad batch of confit" ... "you are about as likely to die of botulism from duck confit as you are driving to the store"

Thank you for posting all about this, kayb. I had never heard of it before, yet it sounds like a glorious condiment. (Thai restaurants, numerous here, also offer a condiment of colorful chopped hot peppers in a sort of sweetened vinegar -- but I never thought of doing it at home until reading here.) I now know exactly what to do with a bunch of good ripe Jalapeños left over from transforming some lean pork into superb Chili Verde. (Side comment: that's my nominee, after 40 years avid stewmaking -- I just counted 10 types currently in the freezer -- for the easiest meat stew to make very well.)

Absolutely: they're not just an appetite stimulant, but very natural when you're doing in-house butchering and have bones and scraps to make into fine broths to sell. Except, of course, for the LG Prime steakhouse group (around Palm Springs). Owner Leon Greenberg imposed certain eccentric personal tastes on his restaurants, including no soups (he doesn't personally like them), I'm told. And I always thought successful businesses catered to their customers' tastes, not their owners'. I wonder if Harvard Business School knows about this case. Food-historical trivia: Soups were the original evening meal of Western civilization, source of French word "souper," English "supper."