philadining

Hey Boots, you know there's a Sang Kee in Wynnewood now, right next to the Whole Foods, which might be easier for you to get to. www.sangkeeasianbistro.com/ I think it's spiffed-up a little for the suburban aesthetic, but it's the same folks running it.

There are a few different types of dumplings, I lean toward the plain pork ones, and toggle between the steamed and fried. The steamed are a bit floppy, but have a nice intense thick oyster sauce with them. The fried are deep-fried, not potsticker-style pan-fried, and come with a vinegary dipping sauce. And I hear you Jas, I love the food at Sang Kee, but they're not exactly meticulous, they bang it out, and it's usually really good. Occasionally, not so much. It's possible you just don't prefer this style of dumpling, or you might have gotten a batch they just weren't paying attention to. (I think these are Gow Gee style, as opposed to Jaiozi, or potstickers, etc. Herb? am I right?) And they're larger than most dumplings I encounter, although I've had even bigger ones in San Francisco.) I've had the steamed dumplings way over-steamed to the point where they're watery and falling apart. I've gotten them cold and dry (this rarely happens on the first floor). But MOST of the time, they're really good, if a bit of a challenge to pick up with chopsticks. I like them so much most of the time that I'm willing to spin the roulette wheel and see what happens.

If you call them in advance, you might be able to reserve the room up on the third floor. It was some time ago, so things might have changed, but they just sort of stuck us up there without our even asking once when we had a big chaotic group like that. There's a bit of stair-climbing though, if that's a problem for anybody. The second floor has several tables that can accommodate 10 people, so it's probably not that big a deal. As with most places, they'd prefer that people get seated all together, but they're probably not going to freak out if most everybody is there. You could probably just walk-in with ten people and you'd have a decent chance of getting a table. But if waiting around a bit would be a major bummer, see about that third-floor room (and there's a Karaoke machine!!) If stairs are a problem, there's really only one or two big tables on the ground floor, you might want to think about somewhere else.... As for food, of course the Peking Duck. Love the dumplings, both steamed and fried. They're big. I think all of their noodle soups are great, I have been fixated on the Roast Pork version for the last decade (or two...) The Roast Pork, or Spare Ribs, or Duck, on a rice platter is always good too, served with some bitter greens. I think Sang Kee's version of General Tso's chicken is my fave anywhere, very light, crispy breading, and much lower breading-to-meat ratio than most, as it's a whole breaded chicken breast that's then sliced. Peking Spare Ribs are kind of similar, like little Pork Chops breaded, fried and in a sticky sweet sauce. Salt-Baked Squid is really good here too. Clams in black bean sauce has been good. They do the whole-fish thing too, and it always looks good, but I tend to focus on duck and other cholesterol-bombs here.... They do a decent beef chow fun, dry or with black bean sauce, the sauced one is pretty soupy. Most of the noodle dishes are good, except for the ill-advised addition of a Pad Thai to the menu, skip that, it's pretty bad. i've been getting the snow pea greens with garlic, and they've varied in quality, but that could just be the varying state of the product... I'd get a plate of those, or one of the other sauteed greens, the bok choy or water spinach, it's a nice contrast to all the fatty stuff. The eggplant with garlic sauce is good, although I'm not sure it's really "vegetarian" even though it's listed in that section. It's hard to manage, but if you can order a nice variety for a table of 10, rather than letting everyone order their own thing, you'll have a better time. I was there once and discovered too late that an entire large table had ordered variations on the same thing: fried something in a sweet sauce, and it was really cloying after a while. Order a few plates of dumplings, a couple of soups (one bowl of the noodle soup will serve 4 easy) a whole Peking duck (you'll get the skin in pancakes, then a second course of the remaining meat stir-fried with whatever vegetables they have laying around that day) something sweet, something salty, some noodles, something green, and pass it around. Everyone will be happy.

yes, Sarcone's is worth a detour if you're a hoagie fan. As for parking,. it's really hard to keep up with the changing parking regualtions, so many of my fave secret spots have changed to 7-day metered zones. But if you're going to be in the historic district, on third street, north of Market, you can still sometimes find an "except sunday" spot and leave your car there all day. Keep an eye out for loading zones that are "except sunday" those are the best.... I actually got a ticket on a sunday in an "except sunday" zone on third near Chestnut, even caught the meter guy as he was writing it. He apologized, took the ticket off my car, and then I got a notice in the mail later, with an additional fine for not paying the ticket he didn't give me. Philly is great that way! So if you can find a spot without a meter, you're safer, in case the Parking weasels can't read.

I have occasionally gotten hoagies at Sarcone's on a sunday, but they usually close pretty early, I think it's officially 4pm, but I wouldn't count on there still being rolls by then. I don't know if I'd count on them being open this weekend. But you could call and see (215) 922-1717. Jim's cheesesteaks at 4th and South is a pretty easy walk from the historical sights, and South Street itself is still a philly landmark, despite its creeping mallification, and is fun to walk up and down. I actually think Jim's makes a decent cheesesteak, if not the greatest one you'll ever have. However, not only do they have Cheese Whiz, that's actually what you should get! If that thought just horrifies you, you can ask for it with Provelone or American. But if you just say "Cheese With" (that's with onions, which you do want) they'll slap some goopy Whiz on there... Say "provelone with" if you fear blindness from the florescent orange cheese-like product. And yes, Water Ice is kind of like a frozen lemonade, like a sno-cone, but, you know, better. If you're in the Chinatown/Reading Terminal area, consider a hike a few blocks south to 13th and Sansom to Capogiro Gelato. There's a whole topic here devoted to swooning over their gelato and sorbetto. I like the Silk City Diner, but it's not really on your way to anything, and I wouldn't make a special trip.

The original Dmitri's on Third Street is indeed a really cool little BYOB serving a pretty different kind of food than the other spots around town. It's minimal, very simple, straight-ahead grilled seafood and the like, and quite good if you like that kind of thing. But it is tiny and popular, and takes no reservations, so as a result, you're pretty-much guaranteed a long wait on a weekend. But it's worth it if you feel like having the best grilled octopus anywhere. If you get on the list early enough, at least you can count on getting a table eventually. Melograno's food is different, they do really excellent simple Italian, but the seating policy is much the same, although the waits usually aren't quite as brutal. If you can get there right at opening at 5pm, you have a decent chance of sitting down soon. As for places that do take reservations, you'll have a tough time on a friday night this close with some of the hot places like Django or Marigold, but it's worth a try. Marigold is all the rage right now, but Rx is just around the corner, and Nan is in that same University-City neighborhood, doing an elegant Thai-French thing, if that floats your boat. There have been a couple of recommendations in South Philly, but I notice that Shacke and Capaneus have conveniently neglected to mention Pif. They're trying to keep it to themselves. Go ahead, steal their tables if you're in the mood for French. We really do have an embarrassment of riches here, with lots of good, small BYOBs. But getting into one on a friday is getting increasingly difficult. The good news is that the cheesesteak joints are never booked up. How many can one eat? They're pretty dense, but be careful, they can be addictive.... pace yourself.

LaBan gave Bistro 7 a middling, but encouraging, review in the Inky Full review here. I went once back in early March, and liked it more than LaBan did, but I will acknowledge some of the same issues. A few things we had were truly outstanding, but some of it was almost there, but not quite. And even those dishes were good, it was more a matter of lackluster sides rather than anything actually "bad." A shortrib app was phenomenal, the intense meat melting into a nice creamy risotto. I really liked the bird itself in the duck entree, but the greens were only OK and the fried rice under it was dry and salty. Similarly, a pork loin was quite delicious, but the red cabbage and sweet potatoes beside it were kind of dull. Their chocolate pot du creme was fantastic, the apple crisp, only OK. Katie told of a more solidly satisfying experience right around then. I'm looking forward to going back, I liked it enough that it's still pretty high on my list, and I agree with LaBan that any problems are small and easily remedied. It's got a really nice vibe, the service was very good, and they have nice glasses for your wine. Shinyboots blogged abut his visit there recently at Minor Gourmandry (with pics).

I'm with Rick and Celia, I thought the bread was lame at Django. Kinda cute, but bread-machine-ish texture. I really like the food at Django, but I won't argue with the ranking our Chicago friends gave their experiences.

It's really hard not to order the Enchiladas de Mole, but you're right, the Suizas are excellent. No, I don't think so, it's more of a sauce thing. Still, pretty good.

Amtrak is indeed the fastest, but it's about $50 each way now, although there are some discounts (usually about 10%) to be had for students, seniors, AAA members, etc... Greyhound happens to be running a nutty deal right now, $12 each way to NY, which is on par with the slightly weird Chinatown busses. I don't know how long this promotion is on. Their regular fares are between $50 and $72 round trip, depending on advance booking, etc The Greyhound drops you right in Chinatown in Philly too, and their bathrooms aren't as scary as the ones on the Chinatown busses. But the movies aren't as cool. http://www.greyhound.com/scripts/TicketCenter/esavers.asp Doing the commuter train dance is kind of a pain, and it can take forever if SEPTA and NJ Transit get out of sync. I'd take Amtrak if speed is more important than money, but the Greyhound for $24 will only add about a half-hour each way, and leave you $76 for food down here.

Wow, I know there's been an arms-race for obscure and exotic ingredients, but Seal sweetbreads?!?! OK, I'm guessing that was just a typo, but it made me think for a second! But seriously, glad to know you had a good time eating in Philly, it does look like you hit some of our best. Plaza Garibaldi is a fave for exactly what you said, basic Mexican, but you guys are awash with that out in Chicago, it's relative novelty for us here. But come on back, you have a good list started already!

Desi Village. It's mostly North-Indian and Pakistani. I've found it to be pretty consistently good, usually excellent. It's a little fancy/pricey but I can live with that from time to time!

Got fooled by a positive article in the Inky suburban section a while back... shoulda known better, it wasn't a real review, but indicated some good basic pub food could be had at Kildare's in King of Prussia. It sounded like the right kind of spot for a quick bite before a movie. Bleah. Potato Leek soup was actually really good, with a fancy garlic/herb oil spiral adding nice extra flavor. But draft beers were flat, Clam chowder was criminally salty, Fish and Chips were dull, Guinness Beef Stew was pasty and lukewarm. This was simple stuff, even a mid-level diner ought to be able to crank this out. I wouldn't have been so upset, except there was really good Indian food a couple hundred yards away.... This is a local chain, there's one in West Chester, one in Manayunk, K of P, maybe more.... The decor is nice enough, in that ersatz pub way, there were a few good English and Irish brews on tap, but I won't be sampling any more of them. There was a creepy big-franchise feel to the menu, even down to the glossy menus and even glossier insert sponsored by Jameson's, featuring dishes like, surprise! Jameson's Chicken and Whiskey Wings and blah blah blah... I really hate wasting a dining opportunity on food like this. edited for typos and some tempering of ellipsis overuse, although probably not enough....

Quickie run for lunch today, got one barbacoa and one enchiladas taco. Barbacoa was OK, kind of stewey and didn't taste too distinctly goaty, which I guess might be a good thing, but it almost could have been chicken. There were a couple of sizable bones, which were an unwelcome surprise... Had a nice dollop of guac, but could have used something more, some onions, or cilantro or something. The enchiladas filling is billed as "spicy pork" and this was quite tasty, but not at all spicy. I think their "Al Pastor" has a bit more kick. Still, I'd get this again. DP had a chimichanga, which he liked a lot. All together, cost, like, nothing? Pretty close.... It's a good alternative to a cheesesteak when you're in that neighborhood. I think I like the tacos at Veracruzana and Plaza Garibaldi a little bit better, although this is a nicer spot to sit.

I'm not sure this is quite the same thing as taunting the newbies, but I love this story. "Gar" Reed, the original owner/chef at the Birchrunville Store Cafe, told us about a time that an old friend came to eat at the restaurant. Ahead of time, Gar asked him to not tell anyone he was a friend, and when it came time for dessert, to take a bite and then make up some complaint and send it back. Apparently he did, at which point Gar came storming out of the kitchen, screaming that he had a lot of nerve to criticize his food, and physically picked him up and threw him out of the place. He says he got a lot less static, from customers and staff alike, for a long time. This sounds like one of those stories people make-up, but Gar was a grumpy old guy, so I can picture him doing it....

It's usually pretty good-natured, and all is good as long as you understand it's just their style to be a little testy, they're not actually mad at you. I got yelled-at in Claudio's once for not taking a free sample fast enough. Hey, I know it's busy in there, but there was a 300-pound cheese hanging in my sight-line, give me a break!A few years ago, a cousin of mine was visiting from Seattle. He stumbled over the word "Gnocchi" in a restaurant and the waitress absolutely refused to take his order until he could pronounce it correctly. I was laughing pretty hard, but he was a little freaked out. But at least he was ready for the waitress at Sang Kee who wouldn't leave until he proved that he could eat cold sesame noodles with chopsticks, after we waved-off the forks. I guess he had out-of-towner written on his face or something, service people were messing with him the whole time he was here. He eventually got to actually like it.

I get marinated peppers at Claudio's sometimes, and my recollection is it's just oil and garlic, but I've certainly had them elsewhere with a splash of vinegar and some herbs. Maybe Lisa can give you some hints about what they do at DiBruno's. I've made these at home a lot, and they turn out well without a lot of work, just use really good oil (I like Claudio's own unfiltered stuff), crushed garlic, go light with the vinegar if you need it at all, and really light with salt. You can go as nuts with herbs as you feel like. I've used fresh thyme and/or oregano. I really like the marjoram idea. (And just so next time you're in town you don't get yelled-at by some produce guy with extra Philly attytude:, we have the "Italian Market" and the greater neighborhood of "South Philly" but nothing actually called "Little Italy" here.)

There are probably a million variations on this in South Philly, where'd you have it? I think you're on the right track. It's not too hard to make, I'd just roast some peppers up and experiment, you can't get it too wrong! Some of the best I've had have been steeping in only EVOO and garlic.

I think this is an excellent idea. It's your concept, so I think you should do the honors of starting a thread: I think it would be best as a new topic, rather than tacked-on here. Something like "The Chinatown Crawl: what they do best where." And rather than general Chinatown discussions, it could be devoted just to the specific dishes we LOVE at the various places in the neighborhood.And I think rather than debating who has the best salt-baked squid, I think it would be most useful, especially to visitors or newbies, to do it by restaurant - if you go to Sang Kee, get the Peking Duck, the Roast Pork Noodle soup and the steamed dumplings. Although i can also see the merits of posts saying that if you just gotta have something in black bean sauce, go to Shao Lan Kung....

I just ate there last night, and I'll second what Shacke said: it was fine, but not a dining destination in and of itself. I ate at a table in the venue, and other than sitting for an hour in a less-than-full venue before actually being able to order, which meant that my food came as the band come on stage (and the lights went down pretty low...) it was pretty convenient to just eat there rather than trying to jam something in before or after. Fried calamari was decent, a "Black and Blue" salad with grilled beef (not even vaguely resembling "blackened" as billed) with blue cheese on mesclun greens was pleasant, but nothing exciting. (The first brew pub out at the King of Prussia Mall, of all places, used to make something similar to this that was actually quite tasty, so I though it might be easy to get right...) All in all, I'd recommend eating there if it's convenient, you can find something decent on the smallish menu at not outrageous prices. But if you have time and want an actually interesting meal, go somewhere else before or after.

There is still Abner's at 38th and Chestnut, which would be a shorter cab loop than going all the way down to Pat's and Geno's. However, I had an Abner's steak a couple of months ago and it took forever to get it, and it was really terrible once it arrived: dry, yet soaked in oil, and with a little whiff of the meat not being the freshest. I couldn't eat it. So, the long cab ride might be a better bet, at least you'd get a good sandwich. And incidentally, some old college friends were in town for a reunion last weekend, and they were determined to bring the families down to Pat's. So we went, about 7pm on saturday, and the line was just insane, about 270 degrees around the building, and barely moving for some reason. Interestingly, the Geno's line was never very long the whole time. But just as I was feeling like an idiot for spending all this time in this line, rather than bailing out to Geno's, we finally got our steaks, and they were really, really good. None of that gristley thing, (I've experienced that....) they were big, juicy, messy. I know it's conventional wisdom that Pat's is an overrated tourist trap, but I've had a lot of very generously-packed, good-quality, tasty steaks from there. Not every time, but much of the time. This was one of the times, they were really great. So I like mrbigjas' plan, even if it's cutting things close. You have a whole hour, you should be able to get down to Pat's spend 15 seconds between ordering and getting your sandwich (there won't be much of a line on a weeknight at 8) back in the cab and up to 30th street. Jim's at 4th and South is actually closer, and makes as credible of a cheesesteak as Pat's. But there's always a danger of a nonsensical South Street traffic jam at any random time. On the up-side, even the lamest of cabbies won't get lost going to 4th and South. Whatever you do, eat the steak immediately. Eat in the cab, whatever, but don't wrap it up and wait until you're on the train or something crazy like that. It will be getting worse by the second. It's absolutely true that one can get a decent cheesesteak from a truck or a cart, or any pizza place or sandwich shop, but it's somehow a different thing. It's fine for a native to have one of those for lunch, but if someone from out-of-town wants to try a real Philly Cheesesteak, that's not quite going to do it. One needs a high-volume place that specializes in only steaks, preferably an outdoor dive, with harsh lighting and lots of photos of celebrities you've never heard of.

Rich, welcome! And thanks for that post. I agree we really ought to support this kind of thing in our backyards. So, are you implying that if we were to dress-up in chicken costumes and lurk around the yard, we might get leftover cheese, as it gets nice and stinky? Worth considering....

I'll agree with the above posts, and second the recommendation for Melograno. You'll have best luck going right when they open at 5pm, or later, like 8-8:30. You still might have to wait. Interestingly, there aren't that many places around here that hold bar seats specifically for walk-ins, like Frontera does. Passion is the only one on your list that does, at least I've walked-in an gotten something there with no reservations. And I like those bar seats, they look right into the kitchen. Same with Bistro 7. That being said, if you're OK with eating at a bar, you'll have a decent chance of getting a seat at the last minute at many spots around town. The trick is that the smaller BYOBs don't have bars at all, and few have seating like that set-aside. Most of the places you listed are BYOB, so you'll have to bring a bottle of wine if you want one, (or some tequila for their mix at Lolita.) Passion and Southwark have full bars, the rest we've been discussing are BYOB. But there are wine bargains to be had in PA, pop into one of our state-run liquor stores and look for "Chairman's Selections". I do wish there were more of what you describe around here, I've eaten at Frontera Grill twice, and both times I just wandered in, was told there was a 2-3 hour wait, or I could sit immediately at the counter... hmmm... tough call...

Glad to hear it, do you recall any more details from your meal? Did you have to arrange for the tasting menu ahead of time, of was that an option presented to you that evening? Approx. what did the tasting menu cost? Thanks!

Lombardi's still has the clam pie listed on the smaller, photocopied closing-era menu. Did they tell you they weren't making it anymore, or were they just out on saturday?