philadining

I was there on a thursday, I think, and kind of late, so it was pretty empty, and I assume that's why they seatedus up on the edge, so we wouldn't feel so overwhelmed on that big floor. I'd imagine it feels fine when it's full. I don't love the lighting fixtures themselves, but the lighting where we sat was nice.... I guess this demonstrates the ephemeral nature of aesthetics... I love the fish... This has been a frequent special for quite some time, commented on (positively) by LaBan in the Philly Inquirer back shortly after the reopening. Whew...OK I can put away my dueling pistols... I can't say that I'm enough of an enophile to make pronouncements on the depth of the list, but, for example, we were steered toward a lovely (red) Beaune with our fish, and it was really perfect. I'm not arguing with your experience, but it saddens me to see people considering changing their plans. I thought my meal at Striped Bass was every bit as good as Lacroix, which I loved too. Haven't made the LBF plunge. Can't seem to ever plan ahead enough to schedule Vetri. Craig LaBan gave it 3 bells last august review here (may require registration) and did comment that he thought it was a bit cold and stiff, but seemed to like the food (and the wine list) . Again, different strokes... but my guest and I thought it was one of the best meals we'd had in Philly.

Thanks for that review Kim, It's always interesting to hear how things hit people differently. Of course the food can be different from night to night, and you could have a server who got up on the wrong side of the bed, etc, but it always fascinates me how more static things like decor and overall feel of a place will have such varying impacts. I think the space is pretty spectacular, I sat directly opposite to where you were sitting, up on the raised area, but on the same side as the bar. It felt somehow cozy over there. I think they reacted to some early complaints about the drapes obscuring the beautiful windows, when I was there, they were pulled-back so we could indeed see the details of the glass and framing, but also had the warming effect of the plush gray drapes. I had that "cheeseskate" as an appetizer, and I wonder if the smaller size is a more appropriate setting for this. My skate was perfectly cooked, and perhaps I would have tired of it as a main course, but I thought all the flavors meshed really nicely, especially pulling some of those grilled onions and trumpet mushrooms into the mix. My skate had some nice crunch from panko crumbs, so I had some good textural variety going on too. I suppose it shouldn't be surprising, but it was eerily reminiscent of an actual cheesesteak, and I mean that as a compliment... Our main courses were really quite vibrant, not a dull moment on those plates, which were the Escolar and a special of scallops and sweetbreads. The sommeliere recommended a wine that they did have in the cellar, and it was just perfect. So good, that in fact, I'm ready to defend her honor on the dueling grounds!! Name your weapons, I 'll see you at dawn! OK, that's probably just the wine talking, but she did suggest a truly amazing French Burgundy, and I'll be forever in her debt for opening my eyes to that particular wine. I completely understand that food and service might vary from night to night, and that something that impressed me might leave you cold, so I'm not discounting your opinion. But for the record, I really enjoyed my last meal there, especially the wine and the cheeseskate. I don't know that I'd bother ordering the cheeseskate again, but I did like it! Sorry to hear you were less impressed.

Shinyboots hipped me to this place a while back, but I keep going at the wrong times... glad to know others like it too. Minor Gourmandry - Tartes

It's really hard to narrow-down any one thing to highlight about that meal, every bit of it was truly outstanding. What most amazed me was how vividly I could taste all of the diverse ingredients, yet they were all sitting in perfect harmony with one another. That sounds like an obvious goal of a chef, but I rarely encounter it as successfully achieved. Katie was right about that panini: my grandmother made one heck of a grilled cheese sandwich, but she never put challa on a meat slicer, for an impossibly thin sandwich with an ideal buttery crunch. That crispness was a perfect foil for the rich foie gras, and the simultaneously sweet and earthy truffle syrup lifted it up out of buttery overkill. That sweet corn custard with the sweet little onion... The gradations of textures from the silky lentil soup, through the tender artichoke, though the barely chewy duck... That rabbit ravioli along with a sip of the Gavi - magic. The scallop levitated by a splash of Vouvray. The lovely medium-rare lamb with curry leaf jus, spun around by multiple hints of pistachio... That peach that tasted as much of ginger as fruit, from poaching for, what, a month and a half? All those are going to stick with me for a long time. Shola is an amazingly talented chef, and a gracious host. And here's a tip: if you go, invite Katie. Those wine pairings were amazing and really lifted the meal up yet another level. And try to have a friend like Gary to smuggle spirits back from the Balkans. It was really nice to meet some more eGulletarians, and share some food and drinks and laughs. I think Andrew and Chris pelting Gary with raisins was a little un-called-for, but hey, I'm new here.

tonight was one scoop of Rosemary Honey Goatmilk, and one of Stracciatella (no, not the wedding soup, the ice cream with leaves of chocolate). The rosemary was really lovely, and as a kid, I ate only chocolate chip ice cream, so I feel entitled to regress from time to time...

Katie hooked a few of us up with some of that Saintsbury Pinot the other night, and it was indeed quite nice. I think "bright cherry" hits it on the head! I grabbed a few bottles of the Vision Pinot that was also a Chairman's Selection, and it was pretty good, but a bit edgier than the Saintsbury.

I thought Lacroix was really great, serving really interesting, elegant food. The menu is inherently a series of small courses, so I agree with Shacke that people who are more comfortable with one big plate of food might feel a little put-off by this style. I did the 4-course option and although none of them were large, I left completely satisfied. The prices have crept up a bit: three courses for $58, four for $67, five for $75, but that's still not bad. You get dessert, which doesn't count as one of your courses. The wine is a bit pricey, which is not uncommon, but it's a broad and interesting list. If you liked Striped Bass, I think you'd enjoy it here too. The food is every bit as good, maybe better, it's a lovely space with a great view, and the service is very polished without being stodgy.

I'm not sure you can ever correlate crowds with quality, there seem to always be lines at the Olive Garden, and heck, the McDonald's drive-through. But you have a point, most of those places you listed have been open for some time, and the fact that they're crowded means somebody must like them.... From the crowds at the valets, (and that half of the freaking good parking spaces in Center city seem to have become valet spaces...) I suspect that many in the crowd are suburban folks in for a hot night in the big city. I'm not dissing the suburbanites, heck, I am one, but they're going to tend to go to the known quantities, the places that have gotten lots of press, the place that people are buzzing about. People have different priorities when they go out for dinner, and sometimes, an "event" is in order. Nothing wrong with that. But I'd be reluctant to presume that the busiest, or most profitable, or most exclusive restaurants are necessarily serving the best food.

I'm just as suspicious and skeptical as the next guy, and so my radar gets jacked-up to high sensitivity when it seems like a restaurant might be more interested in who's in the seats than what's on the plates. Maybe I've fallen somehow into a Starr reality distortion field, or maybe I'm leading a charmed life, but I keep getting good, interesting food at most of his places. I won't claim that everything is a home run, (but I've never found any restaurant that was perfect every time I went.) I feel pretty confident that I actually enjoyed what I was eating, and I don't think any colored lights or fruity cocktails, or plasma screens are going to make the food taste better. Nobody ever seems to suspect that there's no talent in the kitchen if bazillions of dollars are spent on conservative decor, but if it's modern or weird, somehow doubt is cast on the chef. Sure, El Vez is 5 times more expensive than Plaza Garibaldi, but I haven't found any duck tacos with dried cherries down on Washington Avenue. Yeah, there are better bargains in Chinatown than Buddakan offers, but I haven't found a place there for Duck Breast with Five-Spice Jus accompanied by Corn and Scallion Spoonbread for any price. Cedars is way cheaper than Tangerine, but I didn't see any Octopus salad there. Point me toward a cheaper yellowtail "Buri Bop" like Morimoto makes, and I'm there. I guess I've gotten lucky in avoiding most of the service annoyances that have been mentioned. Yes, it sucks to sit in the back corner, but somebody has to get that table if the place is crowded, sometimes it's just bad timing. I get crappy tables in chinatown all the time, but I'm fairly confident that it's not because I'm not cool enough, it's usually because the place is hopping. Of course, if you were treated badly, or served bad food, or just felt cheated, by all means, don't go back, I wouldn't. And please, fire away on these forums, I'd like to hear about it. Everybody's tastes and sense of value is going to be a bit different, so I'm not arguing that the people who hated Buddakan, or wherever, are wrong, I'm just saying that my experiences have been better. And I'm not being sarcastic, maybe I have just gotten lucky....

It's been a couple of years since I went to either, but I'd had different experiences. At Buddakan, once I did get shunted off to a rather out of the way table in a fairly empty restaurant, and I couldn't help wondering if we weren't cool enough for the good seats.... but then service was perfectly friendly. On another visit we ended up front and center, and again, with very charming service. And I must regretfully admit to not being a high roller, or running with supermodels, or regularly wearing very nice shoes. The food on both visits was overall pretty interesting, and most of it was quite good. I especially liked the "Eel Dice," the 5-Spice Duck, the Wasabi-Crusted Filet Mignon, and the Dip Sum Donuts. We had a couple of fish specials on my second visit that were very good, but sadly the details faded from memory before I made any notes. Every time I've been to Fork, I've been satisfied, but never thrilled. The food was always good, but never made me want to hurry back. Solid, reliable, fine. Again, it's been some time since my visits, so the vibe and or food could have changed at both of them. Fork will serve you a good meal, but I think Buddakan could be more exciting. You won't get snotty attitude at Fork. It' possible that you could at Buddakan, but I didn't.

No fried clams on their menu on the webbut maybe they have them sometimes.... Who'd have guess fried clams would be hard to find? Ahh, Katie can talk her into an Oyster PoBoy and she'll never go back to the clams!

Abner's is still there, at the corner of 38th and Chestnut, still dumpy. I spent my share of drunken evenings in there too, and loved it, but I just had a truly vile steak there a couple of weeks ago. I'm actually a fan of that chopped thing that Jim's and Tony Luke's does, and I presume their NY location chops ("shreds" might be more apt?) the steaks on the grill. But the supposed originator, Pat's, and their arch-rival Geno's, both leave the meat unassailed on the grill, just flipped. As noted earlier, this conversation shouldn't divert into a discussion of Philly cuisine, but it should be noted that meat-chopping is not a necessary component of a "Philly-Style" cheesesteak.

I've been eating them up in NY at Dim Sum Go Go for several years, but my buddy's wife was ordering them in Mandarin, and I never could get the pronunciation right to get them myself. That friend and I tried once on our own and just got blank looks from the waiter, and embarrassed eye-rolling from his Mandarin-speaking 4-year-old daughter. Of course, she wouldn't bail us out either.... The transliteration I see most often is "Dou Miao" but it's elided together, and has some tonal aspect that we were clearly butchering, god knows what horrifying or nonsensical thing we were saying to the poor waiter. It's something like "Dome-Yow" but not quite. Any native speakers want to help us?!?

Nan Zhou, was the first place in Philly I noticed that served these, and more recently, Sang Kee has them pretty regualrly. Both make them with LOTS of whole garlic, and you're right, they're amazing, usually my favorite thing on the table. I totally believe the seasonal thing, but I feel like I've been seeing them a lot, although they're sometimes not as amazingly sweet. I wonder if it's one of those deals like what happens with, say, strawberries, you can get them more and more often, but they're only really good at certain time of the year. Real wood Korean barbeque! Nothing like it! The NY boards have been bemoaning that it seems like all the Manhattan places have switched to gas. Bulgoki and kabli over hot coals is SO much better than a gas burner, or those sad little table-top propane deals. Those are better than no bulgoki at all, but the kind of char you can get from coals makes it into a whole other thing... I went to a a place in Manhattan's Koreatown a few years ago at, like, 3:30 in the morning and the fact that you could barbeque over coals in the middle of the night was almost enough to make me move to NY! In the morning, my friend's girlfriend was raging about how disgusting we were, coming in stinking of smoke and garlic, but as the rant continued, I realized that she was mostly mad that we didn't bring any back for her. And horrified that we had eaten two whole orders at that time of night, she knew this place required two orders to grill at the table... Big thanks for the tip, I had no idea anyone was using wood around here. And count me in if momentum starts for an eGullet invasion!

Welcome! Indeed your review was helpful, that was a very evocative description. One thing: where is Pace One? 3 miles off route 1, but in what general vicinity? thanks for joining us here, and I hope you'll share more of your insights!

Mr. Chairman, (I always wanted to say that, although preferably not testifying before Congress...) Thanks for making the leap into cyberspace with us! I look forward to your Q&A next month. I'm sure I speak for many of the members of this little community when I extend my personal thanks for what you're doing at the PLCB. The Chairman's Selections alone have completely transformed my attitude toward the PA state stores, from grudging acceptance to eager enthusiasm. I actually like going into State Stores now, and browsing the website, and look forward to trying some of your picks. Combined with the burgeoning BYOB scene here, it's a good time to be an enophile in PA. So again, thanks! And also, my appreciation goes to Ms. Costello as well, both for her informative posts here and for some personal help some time ago, over a weekend, with some on-line ordering weirdness. You should be very proud of the level of service and good public outreach she's providing. edited to add kudos.

I don't think it's actually important whether the NY versions are made exactly the way it's done in Philly, just whether they're good. I'm curious to know what you folks think. Just as a reference: not all, but many of the classic cheesesteaks down here are made with un-chopped, thin-sliced rib-eye - not reformed steakumm fiberboard, just a thin slice left intact. So it's odd to require the chopping thing. But I don't care about your latitude, it's just chemistry, you CAN'T wrap them, and let them steam themselves into a stew. And I'm not kidding, you can't wait to eat them more than, like, a minute and a half. After that, I guess they're still food, but the magic is gone... Jeeze what's next, rating take-out tempura?

I left it off because I figured classic French was likely to be covered pretty well in Toronto. And, more importantly, for some reason, I've never eaten there. It's a boatload of money, but I've occasionally gotten in that ballpark with rare splurges at other places, and I've always been curious, but I've never taken the leap. So personally, I'm reluctant to tell anybody else to spend probably over $200 per person by the time all is added-up, without being able to say I thought it was worth it. Would anybody here recommend it?

Striped Bass has Alfred Portale from Gotham as Exec chef, or consulting chef, or some such moniker, he's not around on a daily basis, but revamped the menu, and still comes by to guide things, they say. In any case, I had an excellent meal there in January, so I'd recommend a stop. It's fancy and pricey. Striped Bass 1500 Walnut St. Philadelphia 215-732-444 Lacroix provided one of my best meals in memory too, again, upscale and pricey but worth it. Lacroix Rittenhouse Hotel 210 West Rittenhouse Philadelphia, PA 19103 215-546-9000 There's a lot of debate about whether Django is worthy of all the fuss. I think it is, and the general impression seems to be pretty good from the folks here on eGullet. This is a tiny little fairly casual restaurant, to which you bring your own wine. The food is more straightforward and unfussy than at some of the flashier places, but I found it very well-executed and satisfying. Django 526 South 4th Street 215-922-715 There's another similar BYOB place out in West Philly called Marigold Kitchen which is putting out food at almost that same quality. It has gotten very good reviews from pretty much all the media here in Philly, so it might have become a tough reservation, but it's worth a shot. Marigold Kitchen 501 S. 45th Street (45th and Larchwood) 215.222.3699 While you're in Philly it's probably worth hitting one of the signature "theme-park" restaurants owned by Steven Starr. He has a small empire of places that have dramatic decor and high-concept food, and although there's endless debate about the culinary merits of these kitchens, I have gotten many fine meals at them. Buddakan is Asian-fusion with a huge buddha and an under-lit communal table dominating the tall space. Pod is of a similar food style, but with a fun futuristic decor. Tangerine is Moroccan-Mediterranean, and a lovely immersive environment. Morimoto is Masaharu Morimoto's modern Japanese restaurant, with color-shifting lucite booths and creative Japanese food. Whether it's worth the prices has been the subject of a couple of arguments here! There are others: Cuban, Mexcian, Martini bar, Steakhouse, 1960s comfort food, Italian, more... most of them moderately expensive, some very expensive, but all of them seem like an event. I've enjoyed my meals at all of those I highlighted. I think we get a little jaded about them living here, but any time i take someone from out of town, they usually really like it, and remember it as a unique experience. Toronto has plenty of exciting restaurants, so it's not like you've never seen dramatic decor, but these places make you feel like you've been somewhere! As for cheesesteaks, Jim's is really easy to get to, in a neighborhood you might already be wandering, and they're a good "starter steak, " they're pretty reliable and good quality, I still eat them when I'm in that area. But when you're around them every day, you start getting picky, hence the recommendations for John's and Tony Lukes, etc. which are in locations you are unlikely to be in other than going there on purpose. I wouldn't stress to hard about it, Jim's is fine if that's easiest, and Pats and Geno's give the quintessential Philly experience, even if the steaks are inconsistent. Just don't get one anywhere that doesn't specialize in them. You can get one at the corner diner or in the hotel bar, but it's not the same thing! If you read around this forum, you'll find that many of us are on a campaign to change the official Philly food to the Italian Roast Pork sandwich, with sharp provelone and broccoli rabe. It's a WAY better sandwich, best executed at DiNic's, Tony Lukes and John's Roast Pork. Try one if you can. There's endless blather and links to the restaurant sites for most of these places on My Website if you'll pardon the shameless self-promotion...

I'm sorry to hear of your mixed experiences there, I've been really impressed with the food every time I've gone, at least six times since Francis Trzeciak took over in late 1999, and lots more before that when "Gar" Reed was the chef/owner. I've had a range of quality/style of servers, but none have been actually bad. I can sympathize with the uncomfortable tip situation, I had that happen once in an ethnic place where we had been having trouble communicating throughout the meal. When they just never came back with change from the bill, which would have meant an overly generous tip, we couldn't decide what to do.... we finally chickened-out and just left, deciding that it wasn't worth the very confusing conversation it would have required! I have to imagine that your parents were the victims of some misunderstanding, a mumbled "do you need change" or something. My experience has been that the service was generally quite good, a little under-confident, if anything. But then again, maybe they got a bad server: if your folks were uncomfortable, that's all that matters. I've had really good servers do a subtle double-check when we've tipped really heavily, swinging by and telling us that we'd be getting our change in a moment, or even bringing the change back anyway, although we already said we didn't need anything back, allowing us another chance to confirm that we meant to leave what we did. Every time I've gone to Birchrunville, I've marveled at how good the food is, it always feels like a good value to me, and I like the mood of the place (and I've always gotten my change!) They do a 5 or 6 course tasting menu on wednesdays and thursdays for $60 or $70, which isn't cheap, but it's still tempting.... It's worth noting that this is a cash-only establishment, and there's no bank machine nearby, so plan ahead!

I'll second that for good solid Cantonese classics. And yes, Sang Kee does have soup dumplings, although I've never ordered them there. I like their regular dumplings too much and have a hard time forcing myself to deviate from old habits. (And I almost always injure myself with soup dumplings, so unless i know they're going to be pretty great, I'll pass...) Every once in a while I manage to break out and go to Nan Zhou, or Shiao Lan Kung, or Penang or Lakeside, and I like all of those, but I usually get sucked into the powerful gravity of Sang Kee or Rangoon. I have a trustworthy friend who's a big fan of the food at Ray's coffee shop. I love the coffee, but have never eaten the food. It looks to me like you've got a good list!

Look out! somebody might start throwing rose petals or something.... Chefreit rides with a rowdy crew....

Yes, I'm sure that's it, but it changed menus (and ownership i presume) years ago, although they kept the name for a while. It's called something else now, and I haven't seen that type of masaman anywhere else, although I got close in San Francisco once.... For several years it seemed as if there were a federal law that all Thai places had to have "Bangkok" "Siam" "Orchid" or "King" in the name somewhere, tax abatements if you used two or three of those words. There's a bit more variety these days, but I still have to stop for a minute and sort-out which one we're talking about!

Way hipper than the OC... yes, do Marigold as you mentioned, and I still think Nan is an excellent example of that native Philly restaurant renaissance style, the Thai-French, meticulous but not precious thing. You probably won't see a lot of that in Rome. And while you're out that way, get a nice sandwich from Koch's. Sure it's not the same without Lou's bad jokes, but I went over the summer and it was still quite satisfying. if I were leaving town I'd be eating Peking Duck and Roast Pork noodle soup at Sang Kee on all odd-numbered days until my arteries seized-up. And I'd try to hit all those other places you mentioned. Mole enchiladas at Plaza Garibaldi...man, I might have to go there tonight...

I've tried several flavors at Capogiro that I felt just didn't work, but when they do, it's the best gelato I've had. I'm willing to bet that the flavors they're shipping up to NY are pretty solid, rather than the more whimsical or experimental concoctions. But that's the beauty of making new stuff every day, you can give some whacky ideas a whirl. I'm confident you wouldn't find the Cioccolato Scuro too sweet. That has displaced the Chocolat noir from Berthillon as the apex of frozen indulgence for me... So please do give them another try, either at Garden of Eden, or on your next trip south.