ngatti

That depends on where here is. I think Tommy was posting about Xaviers Piermont, in which case I guess Tommy could be ignorant. Last time I ate there I made it in 15 minutes. Getting back on topic: There was a significant period of time after Foy left and before Peter took over. During that time I also heard that things had suffered. I'm told by various sources that things are now better than ever. But for many reasons I personally haven't been able to get there. So all I have to offer to support my arguments is what I have previously posted. Take it for what its worth. I have nothing else. Why not experience it and let us know. In fact, let me know. Pete expressed an interest in any feedback I could give him and was concerned when I told him about your initial post. I thought this whole thread began when you heard that the restaurant had fallen off? Look, all I'm saying is that before I diss (or dish) a restaurant or Chef, I'm going to have more to back it up than something I heard. At the very least tell us what you heard. You may have heard correctly. But if you're going to mention it at all, then you owe it to the parties concerned to report it fully. YMMV Nick

I don't get out much South of I-80, I get nosebleed, west of GSP... Oh yeah! West of GSP is Ridgewood! Is that considered North ? Nick

Sorry Tommy. But you made such excellent points that i thought you'd be well served if I repeated 'em Nick

Arthur Schwartz told me that you cannot copyright a recipe (along the lines that you cannot patent an idea). But you could copyright the form of the recipe. That is, if the recipe were printed in a book. than the exact recipe as printed couldn't be legally lifted. However change one thing, a measure, order of ingredients, etc..., and all bets were off. YMMV Nick

I find it very annoying. The other thing that many restaurants do (including friends) is to translate the NY Times Jersy edition ratings into stars and then use those translated ratings in their advertising. Ex. Joes Greasy Spoon is given a Good by Corcoran in the Sunday edition. The next days ad reads: "Awarded Two Stars by the New York Times" Grrrrr Nick

I suppose I'd be annoyed if the Times concentrated on reviewing Restaurants in the NJ/Philly area. I've always thought that the Times gives short shrift to Northeast New Jersey (Ridgewood excepted). So when they review anything within a thirty minute drive of here whether in NY or NJ, I'm thrilled. For a while there it seemed that everyplace they reviewed was in the Princeton or Redbank areas. I guess that's where the new and exciting restaurants are. Now I don't want to start another flamewar dammit. But unless a compelling reason can be found (Tom Keller, Alain Ducasse etc type of dining experience AND on someone elses nickel ), I ain't driving. Much easier to cross the bridge into NYC. YMMV Nick

Aw c'mon guys. I live 15 minutes from the New York line and work maybe 7 minutes from it. The (Bergen) Record is based in Hackensack and is for me and many others, a regional newspaper. hell, the Citrus Grill is in Airmont, maybe 200 yards from the border of Upper Saddle River. The people who live in Tappan, Sparkill, Piermont, Orangeburg etc. also read The Record as well as those who live in Rockleigh, Alpine, and Northvale. Those people who own Restaurants in these areas (yes even the New York owners!) advertise in it's pages. Y'all may not like it but The Record does provide a service for others and myself who live near these places. The Record of Hackensack provides extensive coverage of the Northern and Pascack Valleys and those of us who live there also eat in Rockland County. Jeez, I'm good for lunch at Freelance at least once a month! That said, I'll concede that Garrisons a pretty long putt. But then again the Ed. staff at The Record has never been shy about cosyin' up to the Kelly boys YMMV Nick

I called Peter Angelakos of Sonoma Grill and asked him if he would mind me posting some of his menu here on egullet. He graciously said yes. He also said that he was trying to focus on his interpretation of a northern Californian wine country cuisine. His menu has 9 apps, 3 pastas, 1 vegan, 9 mains, 4 sides and 7 desserts. Here are some selections. Apps: A Selection of Artisan Cheeses fresh and dried fruit Grilled Shrimp Cocktail sugar cane skewered and accompanied by avocado salsa Crabmeat and Corn Cobbler shitake mushrooms, creme fraiche, white truffle oil House Smoked Salmon Nori Roll Tempura wasabi oil, pickled ginger, sesame-soy-garlic-dipping sauce Mains: Cedar-Planked Salmon Filet chive pesto "painted" israeli couscous, spring vegetables and red and yellow bell peper coulis Pan -Seared Day-Boat Sea Scallops vannilla-passion fruit beurre blanc sauce jasmine rice & asparagus Pistachio Crusted Rack of New Zealand Lamb goat cheese-potato gratin, spring vegeatables and fava bean sauce Slow-Roasted Free Range Duck black thai rice, spicy snow peas & ginger-cointreau sauce Desserts: Chocolate Kaluha Fondue fresh berries Semifreddo Crunch frozen gianduja & white chocolate mousse, crunchy pistachio nougat with butterscotch & chocolate sauces prices range from: apps: 6-12 mains: 18-26 pastas: 15-16 sides: 5-6 desserts: 6-7.50 This restaurant may have gotten a bad rap in the time between John Foy (previous owner) and Peter Angelakos. But as I've said, I've heard mostly good since Peter and his brother Stavros came on board, including a recent 3 and 1/2 stars from the Bergen record. Thanx for listening Nick

Rosie, I called Peter Angelakos (chef/owner) and asked him to fax me a copy of his menu. I also asked him to define the focus of his cooking since he and his brother Stavros came aboard as partners. I'll post to a new topic so we don't stray. Thanx for asking Nick

Yes I did. Even got to look at a menu. Had my heart set on your pork appetizer. But a personal problem got in the way and I never even ordered. We had to leave without ordering Not to worry I'll get there, but next nite out will be God knows when. I'm beaucoup busy now. Two thousand meals between Friday and Monday nite. Pray for me Thanx Nick

They still talk about my mashed potatoes. I'm a new guy in the kitchen and decide I'll help cook family meal. I insist on cooking the mashed potatoes. "Hey man!, my mashed potatoes are the best!" sez I So I fill the robotcoupe with potatoes. Add cream and butter and let'er rip...on high speed...For a good long while. After all the smoother the better...right? WRONG! Twenty years later and they still talk about how I taught everyone how to make wallpaper paste. Nick

Yes, it seems a very rich and varied cuisine. I wish I had time to explore it more. Good chance I'll be taking a cooking tour of Thailand next February (keeping fingers crossed). Two weeks isn't much time to absorb but I'll give it a shot. Thanks Nick

They may not have been as gritty, but I'm sure they were more expensive. It depends on the mussels the restaurant buys. Usually the water they come from and the way they grow determine the grit. Remember they are filter feeders. Bulk bags of mussels tend to be gritty and have much non mussel material in the sack (rocks, winkles etc). These mussels should be purged before serving much as you would purge a steamer clam. Sometimes a restaurant does so much business that they can't be purged properly before service. I use a P.E.I. (Prince Edward Isle) mussel. They're cultivated so there is very little, if any, grit. They also come beardless which saves a ton of work. They cost a bit more but they're worth it. Thanks for the response Nick

Hey I not only said I was ignorant, I said i was quite ignorant. YMMV Nick

Now I'm Intrigued. Once I hear 'food vibe' or 'non-foodie people', you know the food bore police are going to be called See, I've patronized Wondee's on a regular basis since it opened. I've been going to Bangcok Garden since I can't remember. Both are good for what they are and I recommend each for different reasons to different people. Let me preface by saying that I don't consider myself to be a Thai food expert. Although I've been patronizing Thai restaurants regularly since the mid to late 70s (only two Thai restaurants in New York City back then). I also have a better than laymans knowledge of Thai ingredients and use fresh galangal, fish sauce, fresh kaffir lime leaf, lemon grass etc. on a regular basis in my own cooking. However I'm quite ignorant of authentic regional differences and the cultural aspects regarding the "cuisine" of Thailand. That said, I eat at Wondee's because it's cheaper. Bangcock does seem to charge a premium for that Zagat rating. The other thing that keeps me going to Bangcock more often than Wondee's is that the only Thai person I know who has eaten in both restaurants told me that Bankcock was a more authentic Thai dining experience. She was talking primarily about the food and not the admitedly gringo tourist pleasing ambience that the place has. Both are filled with their share of scruffy Fairleigh students and young families. But the legal crowd seems to favor Bangcock. I've always noticed a larger number of Asian people in Bangcock. I thought that said something about the food. Lastly the Bancock Duck, which is served in both Restaurants is, IMHO, simply better prepared at Banckcock Garden. It's a favorite dish of mine and there are times when I order it on a weekly basis. My other favorite: Thai Duck with Coconut and Red Chili doesn't exist at Wondee's. It seems people go to Wondee's because of larger portions for cheaper prices. If I'm in the mood for noodles or apps or my kids are with me and it isn't a Monday (alas my only day off), I head for Wondee's. Otherwise if it's just the wife and I and I want some beer and dining room service along with some ambience and the very good duck dishes it's Bangcock Garden. The smile means that I'm not looking to start a flame war. Just being a little provocative. YMMV Nick

>yes I heard Sonoma Grill is not good anymore since can anyone confirm this?< No I can't. Three and a half stars from the Bergen Record in a recent review. A Chef who has as big a heart and is as great a guy as he is a cook. You may have heard otherwise but you know the adage: Have a good dining experience, tell two people. Have a bad dining experience, tell ten I've worked with or know the cooking of most of the high end chefs in Bergen County. Believe me, Pete Angelakos has got the goods. Try it for yourself.

I've seen many posts on Wondee's thai reataurant in Hackensack here on egullet. But I've been curious. Has anyone crossed the street and eaten Bangcok Garden?

Being in the business, I like to think that I tip well (20% or so). Even for less than perfect service (many things aren't the fault of the waitstaff). damn, I usually leave 2 bucks on my 5 dollar breakfast special at the local diner. That said, I find the automatic adding of gratuity irksome. I have no problem with the grat being added to parties of 5 (6,7,8) or more. But when 14 or 15 or 18% is added to every check. Well then I get annoyed. I then let the grat stand and usually let the waitron know that since the establishment they work for was presumptuous enough to add the grat to the bill then that is the amount that the grat shall be. No more , no less and no matter the level of service. If that seems unfair than maybe they'll complain loudly to their owners and get the practice changed or else quit and move on to classier establishment. The practice is rude and not worthy of a first class establishment. Nick

Many years ago I worked at a large hotel where the grat added to a catered affair was a derigeur 18.5%. By union rule, 13.5 went to the various waitstaff (including busboys, bartenders and barbacks). The Executive Chef got a half pt. The Captains got a larger percentage to split. The Maitre'd got his pts. and the remaining grat went to the catering director and his assistant. There was a small piece leftover that went to a general slush fund, which financed various staff social events during the year. Just a point of general info. I can also assure you that what you have just mentioned goes on in many places. that is to say, management keeps the entire grat and pays the waitstaff an hourly wage. Nick

Actually that is all I was trying to do

I'm not looking for a sterile and sanitary style of restaurant critic perfection that all and sundry must hew to, although the tone of my statements may lead you to think so. I have to plead the Supreme Court definition of a great restaurant review: I can't define it but I know it when I see it I don't buy into the Chef as artist. We are many things, we are craftsman, we are artisans, we are businesspeople. Some very few may work as if they are artists, but perhaps not as many as think they do. I am not Lichtenstein or Picasso ( maybe more of a Duchamp ). It is a much different process for me to improvise on my guitar or to draw with pen and ink or to solve a chess problem than it is to match ingredients to a dish, or create a special, write a menu or organize a culinary event. The former I do for myself without regard for audience, (potential or actual) monetary reward, or critical acclaim, the latter is primarily motivated by audience and if I'm not paid I'm not doing it! If you agree with my assessment that Chef's are not artists than it may follow that restaurant criticism is not the same as art or music criticism. A restaurant critics product is written for a much more immediate audience, much as the chef's product is an immediate creation constantly if minutely changing and gone within a few minutes. Perhaps a theatre critics work would be a closer analogy (shades of Bryan Miller). The same rules should apply. Theatre critics should not cosy up to their subjects etc. etc... . Can an informed writer participate with and interact with chef's who may or may not benefit from a potential review? Of course he can especially if his heart is true :). But fences and warning signs are placed so that people will stop and give pause. They are not absolute nor are they meant to be. They give people time to consider the potential risk involved in crossing those fences and ignoring the warnings. Maybe 2 critics. The Times does this in the New Jersey section of the Sunday edition and it works well. I like ones writing more than the other and tend to take that persons opinions more seriously (curious is that the one I don't care for as much is a CIA grad, the one I do like was probably the sports reporter). Our local paper may have as many as 6 critics doing the reviews. the inconsistency drives most of us in this region bonkers. Consequently, although much lip service is paid there is very little respect given. Thanks for responding to the post. Nick Gatti

If there is one thing I've learned over my time in the business it is that nothing is routine. Sh*t happens. I agree with you if waiters were standing about cooling their heels while the owner tried to squeeze a couple of bucks out of you at the bar. But in my experience the get 'em in, get 'em out rule usually prevails and diners that arrive on time for their reservations are to be nurtured as if an endangered species. We don't want to piss 'em off trying to grab the profit from a glass of wine. I was at Shun Lee Palace recently. We were a table of 4. I had the other couple confirm the reservation earlier in the day. When we arrived the maitre d' had no record of the reservation. Michael Tong immediatly came down and straightened the problem out. The other couple had mistakenly confirmed the reservation at Shun Lee West! Since we were Mr. Tong's guests, we were seated immediatly, but the restaurant was booked and full. Now I may have gotten the AMEX table but I think some other couple behind us was going to pay for that mistake. Most likely by waiting a short time in the bar. Well... I've been in the weeds with one four top maybe even a deuce and Since I do the firing...I'm staying. Seriously though, all I'm saying is that things happen. Cooks get sick, sauces break, guys get cut, waiters slip and fall. (gasp) Ansul systems dump. I agree...People should know this. However the reality is that they don't care or they feel that they have enough juice to do what they please. Sometimes a GM forgot to tell the maitre'd about a 6 top right in the teeth of the dinner rush. Whatever the reason, a decision must be made as to how to deal with it on a case by case basis. Sometimes somebody gets stuck at the bar. Now let me say that not honoring a valid resevation within a short and reasonable length of time (5-10 minutes) is inexusable. I find that simply being honest and compensating people for their time and frustration works best. A 20-30 minute delay may happen but you should never have to pay for your own drink and a delay like that requires an amuse from the kitchen and perhaps desert and coffee also. A private club in bergen county.. veddy veddy... you know

I hear this complaint often and I suppose there may be some validity to the 'let's pad the check with drinks' aspect of it. There are many other reasons why you may be shunted to the bar. Most likely is that for whatever reason the waiters or the waiter stations haven't come on line yet. Staff is not available to man all stations so they must remain empty The kitchen may be weeded and the chef or expediter may have asked the maitre'd to hold up the seating. In our place we limit to 25-30 reservations per half hour, but that doesen't account for important walk-ins that you must take or reservation mistakes resulting in more people trying to sit at one time than can be reasonably handled. In any case reservations should be honored and any wait beyond a reasonable one (5 - 10 minutes or so) should be met with an apology and the offer of a drink on the house.

Maybe only a little less, at least in the specific case of the Times. I think that by the time one reaches a career promontory such as restaurant critic for the New York Times, what may have started as a passing interest has developed well beyond the avocation stage. Ruth Reichel has a restaurant backgroud and during her tenure reset the bar not only for the Times but for reviewers everywhere. I don't feel that a critic must be a trained chef or graduate from the CIA in order to review restaurants. Quite the contrary. It could be a serious detriment. I understand that reviewers write about a holistic dining out experience. The food may be the star but the nuts and bolts cooking of it needn't be. that said good reviewers seem to have a feel for the back of the house and can bring it into the flow of a piece without specific mention. I read with great interest Steve Plotnicki's report on Craft. This is an accomplished diner, something that I am not. That was my point about avocation. Being an accomplished diner may be an avocation, but it should be a serious one and the accomplished part should be bold-faced before setting pen to paper for public consumption. We need unquestionably knowledgeable people to handle what I consider to be very important work.

Try a vegetable peeler. You get nice long shavings. A vegetable shredder attachement on your food processor will give a nice look to your cheese also.