C_Ruark

Good question... "Codling" isn't mentioned in Larousse and googling didn't help. Chris

Thanks Eden. That's the stuff I am looking for. Chris

Good point Eden... thanks for pointing that out; the measures are, of course, modern - my oversight. Responding to your note I'd like to go with the latter category "original author as opposed to anonymous historical sources". Again, this isn't meant to be a rule, but a request. To help illustrate my goal I should point out that aside from the Vatel recipe, my practical knowledge (recipes) of antique/ancient culinary history/traditions stops dead at Careme, but the "Lark's Tongue" thread piqued my interest in collecting more recipes to get a "hands on" perspective of culinary history. For instance; experts on Roman Antiquity note that "Apicius" identifies three men: A Roman Republican; Marcus Gabius Apicius; and the 5th century AD author (k/a Caeilus Apicius) of De re Coquinaria. Regarding the second individual, Pliny documented his technique of force-feeding geese with figs; foie gras' ancestor recipe? [Naturalis Historia 19:137]... ... but I don't have recipes.. yet. I thought it would be cool to collect recipes from these very interesting figures and perhaps try them out. C

ChromeDome, If you've got examples... by all means... put them up on this thread. That would be appreciated. Having a read of the Forme de Cury now... quite an interesting. Many thanks! Chris

This thread is a branch of the thread The romans ate Lark's Tongues?, or not. where does this come from?. Mid-thread I had queried readers to respond with some antique (17th to 19th century) or ancient (16th century and earlier) recipes they've collected over the years. Let's see what y'all got... After my signature, I'll start the collection off with a recipe from Francois Vatel a contemporary of La Varenne. The oldest verified recipe in my collection is believed to be the recipe for one of the dishes served in 1671at the last meal Chef Vatel prepared (we know he wrote the original recipe; we don't know if this is exactly what was served). A bit of Vatel history: He decided to off himself when a prized filet of sole dish failed to be prepared. Seems a shipment of 16,000F-worth of fireworks got in the way of the fish delivery, so the legend goes. Requests: 1. Please only reply with recipes which are creditable to an individual. 2. List the original ingredients, weights and measures, and method (if possible). 3. The youngest submission "should" pre-date Careme's L'art de la cuisine française au dix-neuvième siècle; credited as the 1st mass-published recipe book; circa 1833-1844. 4. Try to include a date and source if you can; else, estimate to the approximate decade when possible (e.g., 1620s, 1750s, etc.). Many thanks in advance to the contributors!!! Regards from DC, Chris Duck Sauteed in Madiera Wine a la Francois Vatel (from Daniel Rogov's Web Site)

Thanks Eden, I'll start the thread up and see what happens. Chris

Don't have anything to add, but I do have a query regarding historical recipes... The oldest recipes in my collection originates from Francois Vatel (a commissioned chef to Louis XIV; 1671)....you know the guy that off'd himself causepart of his meal wasn't going to be served at the King's banquet due to mass complications created by elaborate plans. Anyway... I was wondering if someone wouldn't mind trading a few recipes. Regards from DC, Chris Here's one of the Vatel's... Duck Sauteed in Madeira Wine 2 Tbsp. vegetable oil 1 duckling, about 21/2 kilos, quartered 1 medium onion, chopped 2 Tbsp. flour 1/2 cup red wine 1/2 cup beef or chicken stock 1 bouquet garni made by tying together 3 sprigs 2 shallots, chopped 1 clove garlic, crushed of parsley, 2 sprigs of thyme and 1 bay leaf salt and pepper to taste 100 gr. mushrooms, sliced thinly 1/4 cup Madeira wine 1 cup toasted bread croutons chopped parsley for garnish In a large skillet saute the pieces for 1 - 2 minutes and then turn skin side down to cook until browned and the fat has been rendered . Remove the duckling pieces and set aside. Discard all but 2 Tbsp. of the fat and into this stir the onion and saute until lightly browned. Add the flour and continue cooking, stirring constantly over a medium flame until browned. Whisk in the wine, stock, bouquet garni, shallots, garlic, salt and pepper. Return the duck to the skillet, cover and simmer until the duck is tender when pierced with a fork (about 30 minutes). Add more stock during cooking if the sauce becomes thick. Add the mushrooms and Madeira and simmer until the mushrooms are tender (3 -4 minutes). The sauce should be thick enough to coat the back of a spoon. Remove the duckling pieces to a serving platter and if the sauce is too thick add stock; if too thin boil to reduce further. Discard the bouquet garni and correct the seasoning. Surround the duckling pieces with the croutons and over this spoon the mushrooms and sauce. If ample sauce remains, serve in a gravy boat. Garnish with the parsley immediately before serving. Serves 4. PS - I had to edit the original post; after researching Vatel's bio a bit further, I found that my data was wrong - the filet of sole dish was never prepared.

Karen, No need to worry 'bout using a mand. You bought the mand with a visual of some final products. Go right ahead and try to produce what you imagine; don't sweat this, it's easy. Hopefully you have a handguard, if not, a replacement can be bought on the internet. I replaced my worn out one for about $40+shipping. As Bruce points out; safety first. Have a cut-proof glove on your slicing hand. Start easy: use the mand to help prep mirepoix. You don't have to go and dice stuff right away, but you can get half of the cutwork done. And... you can store the results for late use in soups, strocks, etc. Just slice and julienne carrots, a few onions (the blade won't tear the cell structure, it will cut it neatly so you shouldn't tear up), celery, seeded tomatoes, peppers, whatever. Stay away from starchy (potatoes), and thick-skinned (citrus fruits) items at first... move onto these as you gain experience. Note about potatoes and other starches: Have a papertowel handy when you're cutting. Dab the excess liquid off the potato every so often so that you keep the starch levels down on the channel and at the blades. Have a wet sponge and a pastry-brush nearby to clean the metal from time to time for the same reason. The set-up: The mand is pointed so that the blades are facing you and parallel to your shoulder line. The non-cutting hand holds the top handle (underhanded). Look at the cutting guard. Notice that it has a hinged plate. Make sure the cutting item isn't too big to work with. The technique: 1. Place the item to be sliced in guard (shortest side to the front when possible) and onto the channel, press firmly but just light enough for the slicable item to travel the length of the channel without adding friction. Grip the guard in a way has absolute control of the guard, palm at the back. 2. Guide the guard onto the runners. You can now start cutting. 3. Push *to* the blade. Not into, not onto, not up to... *to*. Straight at the blade. Let the guard glide through the stroke. 4. Try to maintain the pressure you start with all the way through the cut. If guard starts to jerk and "stutter", something is wrong. Stop and figure what happened. 5. Retract and repeat. 5. Monitor the cutting blades to make sure they don't get gunked up. Don't try to cut all of the item. As soon as you have to press down onto the guard to get the item to cut, stop. There will be leftovers which you'll have to slice by hand. Have a wooden pencil or skewer handy to help free jams. When you're done cutting, pay special attention to the blades during cleanup. You might need a pastry-brush (or tooth-brush) to help clean the cutters. Don't store the mand with wet or dirty blades (common sense yes, but worth mentioning). The technique is quite simple to get after a few tries. Go and have fun!!! Hope that helps, Chris

FG and Daily Gullet Editors, You got the submission guidelines up. Nice! (thanks for linking to the styleguide as well). - Chris

My weapon of choice for cutting mise is a Grand Prix Extra Broad 10" Chef's, also by Wusthof. All my knives are GPs and I won't put any another brand/mark into my roll... period. That's personal preference talking; I've got large, beefy, hands and the GPs are the very best fit. Shun/Kershaw's (you've seen Alton Brown using 'em) conversely, don't work... while the Damascus steel is praiseworthy they are way too small. Another talking point: Most people think they can get by with one supreme, high-dollar, top of the line, knife for 70% (or more) of all cutting work. That's just plain wrong (and unsafe) in my book. Always have the right tool available for the job. I don't fabricate any meats, poultry or fish with my behemoth. I pack a flexible fillet knife for fish and a boning knife for the livestock and fowl. Just some thoughts, Chris

Dan and Steve... coming in Sep

Passionate... what book is the quote from? - CSR

RaxElita, Another one: French Onion Soup... mostly because about 1/100 restaurants can make this soup right. How can something so dead-simple get trashed so often? IMHO, the recipe they teach at LCB is the best; wine, lots of onion - different types is a plus - and gruyere. Hit the top with a salamander or a torch and serve... Some of the stuff they sling has parmesan, swiss and provelone (or combinations thereof) on top of fresh (!) bread which just kills it. That is... if the over-the-top beef stock flavor hasn't already. And what's with slapping an avocado on anything and adding "California" to the title? Shalamanese is spot on with the rocket (arugula) comment as well. -CSR

Click here. - CSR

Good point JP! Too much sauce would definitely be a problem. I grew up eating dry Q, and that's the only way I order it, so I've not had the problems you've mentioned. The sauce and finish method turns me off faster than an Amsterdaam light switch, especially when I get sauced after asking for dry. Ribsters, Memphis BBQ and that "[in]famous" chain are on my s-list for this very reason. Regards from Herndon, - CSR

Old Glory in Georgetown is good. Rocklands is a sure-bet. Wilewil mentioned Willard's Real Pit Barbeque in Fairfax. IMHO, I really like this place and I am critical about this food (comes with spending a few years in Texas). Met the owner. Nice guy. He's direct from the Carolinas. Really good briskets and pulled-pork plates are the norm. And the chalk-board menu is a nice way to keep the menu from getting old. He regularly hits the hotspots (KC, Memphis, NC, TX) plus a few international versions every so often. Decent prices, too. - CSR

With an eye on techniques to master, I'd have to go with any recipe that covers one or more of the following... 1 - Eggs - controlling volume (chilled v room temp); the versatility of this ingredient 2 - How to make a "great" stock 3 - The grand (or mother) sauces Bechamel Veloute Espagnole Hollandaise Tomato (preferably our Gramma's) Runners-up: The basic chicken and beef roasts. Get these down BEFORE you learn how to cheat! and the skills... 1 - The idea of mise en place - cut, measure, then cook 2 - Cost management - those chicken bones can be reused; why buy the fancy condiments and oils when you can make. 3 - Knife techniques + maintenance; pick one knife to master and carefully maintain it. 4 - the "five c's"...clean (space), clean (storage), clean (work area), clean (hands), clean (as you go)

And I am a gastronome . Fave TV shows as a kid: Bugs Bunny, Yan Can Cook (that's one funny chef), Great Chefs, and that "funny-lady with the weird voice" whom I now revere, Julia Child. My observant parents stopped buying me toys and gave me a wok for my 9th B-day. - CSR

Boxty !!! ... a fantastic sort of trad-Irish shortcake served frequently in our family. It was the first of many Saturdays and Sundays in my Gramma's kitchen. - CSR

Chiff, Understand where you're coming from but I am going to have to disagree here. The brigade (hmm, interesting parallel use of the term) is the front line of the battle-field. Their objective: Fill the seats, beat the competition, make money. A restaurant can have the most brilliant chef on the planet and completely fail if the line can't perform. BTW, what's the line on that numbnuts that shoved too much salt into the risotto? - CSR

Bangkok 54 for Thai, would be a good one. It's in the nearby 'burb of Arlington. - CSR

Queen City Deviled Egg and Potato Salad Serves 6 as Side. My take on Gramma's famous combination of two family favorites, deviled eggs and potato salad. The yield is a bit larger in this recipe. My family gives potato salad near-main status. Enjoy - CSR DEVILED EGGS (GARNISH) 9 hard boiled eggs; peeled 1 tsp pickles; minced 1 tsp mustard 1 T mayonnaise POTATO SALAD 1/2 c onion; chopped 1/4 c green pepper; diced fine 1/2 c mustard 1 T salt 5 lb red potatoes w/skins; boiled; cubed 1/2 c dill pickles; minced 1/4 c celery; diced fine 1 c mayonnaise paprika; garnish dill; garnish Equipment: 1 large mixing bowl 1 transfer plate 1 large serving bowl METHOD - Deviled Eggs 1. Cut 6 of 9 boiled eggs in half; remove yolk. Reserve 3 for later in this recipe. 2. Place yolks in bowl and mix with pickles, mustard, mayonnaise; salt to taste. 3. Stuff eggs with the yolk mixture; garnish with paprika. 4. Move deviled eggs to transfer plate and set aside. METHOD - Potato Salad 4. In a large mixing bowl, mix potatoes with remaining ingredients. 5. Using a fork, flake in reserved eggs. 6. Transfer to serving bowl. 7. Garnish with dill and paprika. -Pause- 8. Refrigerate eggs and potato salad until chilled. SERVING 9. Before moving to table, place deviled eggs on top of potato salad in a decorative style. END OF METHOD Keywords: Side, Potatoes, American ( RG1295 )

Queen City Deviled Egg and Potato Salad Serves 6 as Side. My take on Gramma's famous combination of two family favorites, deviled eggs and potato salad. The yield is a bit larger in this recipe. My family gives potato salad near-main status. Enjoy - CSR DEVILED EGGS (GARNISH) 9 hard boiled eggs; peeled 1 tsp pickles; minced 1 tsp mustard 1 T mayonnaise POTATO SALAD 1/2 c onion; chopped 1/4 c green pepper; diced fine 1/2 c mustard 1 T salt 5 lb red potatoes w/skins; boiled; cubed 1/2 c dill pickles; minced 1/4 c celery; diced fine 1 c mayonnaise paprika; garnish dill; garnish Equipment: 1 large mixing bowl 1 transfer plate 1 large serving bowl METHOD - Deviled Eggs 1. Cut 6 of 9 boiled eggs in half; remove yolk. Reserve 3 for later in this recipe. 2. Place yolks in bowl and mix with pickles, mustard, mayonnaise; salt to taste. 3. Stuff eggs with the yolk mixture; garnish with paprika. 4. Move deviled eggs to transfer plate and set aside. METHOD - Potato Salad 4. In a large mixing bowl, mix potatoes with remaining ingredients. 5. Using a fork, flake in reserved eggs. 6. Transfer to serving bowl. 7. Garnish with dill and paprika. -Pause- 8. Refrigerate eggs and potato salad until chilled. SERVING 9. Before moving to table, place deviled eggs on top of potato salad in a decorative style. END OF METHOD Keywords: Side, Potatoes, American ( RG1295 )

Summer Potato Salad Serves 7 as Side. A simple and quick recipe for adding potato salad to any meal. Enjoy! - CSR 3/4 c olive oil 1/4 c fresh lemon juice 1/2 c grated lemon peel; loose packed 2 celery stalks; diced small; patted dry 2 hard-boiled eggs; diced 1 shallot; chopped 1 red onion; diced 1/3 c fresh parsley leaves; chopped fine 1/4 c fresh cilantro; chiffonade 1/4 c fresh basil; chiffonade 1/4 c fresh mint; chiffonade 2-1/4 lb red-skinned potatoes; unpeeled; cooked; diced into 1/2" cubes; room temp Salt and White Pepper Equipment: 1 large mixing bowl 1 small mixing bowl 1 whisk 1 squeeze-bottle + funnel 1 large serving bowl Method: 1. Reserve a small portion of each herb for garnish. 2. Whisk oil, juice and lemon peel into large mixing bowl. Salt and pepper to taste. 3. Transfer dressing into squeeze bottle; reserve a small amount in the bottom of the bowl. 4. In small mixing bowl add remaining dry ingredients (except potatoes and reserved herbs). Hand toss. 5. Working in 4 equal batches, gradually add potatoes; spritz with a small amount of dressing, add a healthy pinch of herb mixture and toss lightly. 6. When all potatoes are incorporated, move to serving bowl. 7. Garnish with remaining herbs. Serve at room temp. END OF METHOD Keywords: Potatoes, Side, Lunch ( RG1294 )

Summer Potato Salad Serves 7 as Side. A simple and quick recipe for adding potato salad to any meal. Enjoy! - CSR 3/4 c olive oil 1/4 c fresh lemon juice 1/2 c grated lemon peel; loose packed 2 celery stalks; diced small; patted dry 2 hard-boiled eggs; diced 1 shallot; chopped 1 red onion; diced 1/3 c fresh parsley leaves; chopped fine 1/4 c fresh cilantro; chiffonade 1/4 c fresh basil; chiffonade 1/4 c fresh mint; chiffonade 2-1/4 lb red-skinned potatoes; unpeeled; cooked; diced into 1/2" cubes; room temp Salt and White Pepper Equipment: 1 large mixing bowl 1 small mixing bowl 1 whisk 1 squeeze-bottle + funnel 1 large serving bowl Method: 1. Reserve a small portion of each herb for garnish. 2. Whisk oil, juice and lemon peel into large mixing bowl. Salt and pepper to taste. 3. Transfer dressing into squeeze bottle; reserve a small amount in the bottom of the bowl. 4. In small mixing bowl add remaining dry ingredients (except potatoes and reserved herbs). Hand toss. 5. Working in 4 equal batches, gradually add potatoes; spritz with a small amount of dressing, add a healthy pinch of herb mixture and toss lightly. 6. When all potatoes are incorporated, move to serving bowl. 7. Garnish with remaining herbs. Serve at room temp. END OF METHOD Keywords: Potatoes, Side, Lunch ( RG1294 )