Beachfan

For the most part yes. However they (me) will feel happier with the reduced price. For the most part, wouldn't those who would not buy bottled water still not buy bottled water? Are you seduced by the marketing? I don't think so, I think you are just annoyed. Is it really the situation that you would rather us pay more so you don't feel resentment?

A synopsis of your food experience is solicitated!

Steve Klc reports a falloff at one of my favorite restaurants. I ate their twice and loved it. Anyone have recent experience?

Why is marketing in and of itself a negative? I agree that it's unlikely charitable or kind acts are only done for marketing purposes, but why shouldn't they be bundled with marketing. Marketing is only a problem if it's in bad taste. Without marketing, businesses go bankrupt.

If it's a good restaurant, I think all promotions are fine. It has to be a pretty far stretch for me to take umbrage. Are you really unhappy that GT mentions drought in their promotion? After all, it does raise conciousness. If they merely said they were only serving water on request, and kept their prices the same would it make you feel better? If we had real truth in marketing, all promotions would have the comment "we're primarilly saying this/ doing this to get you to give us revenue. A benefit may accrue to you or to charity, but that's incidental". While it may sound cynical, I don't feel that way. I feel it's merely capatilistic, and healthy at that.

I found a website for booking hotels in San Francisco that is local to the Bay area and seems to have better than average prices. I got the Grand Hyatt for $139 for an upcoming stay, and I'm going to keep checking because I noticed it for $99 this Thursday. Park Hyatt as low as $109. PS anyone know why this link didn't get hot?

You must mean they are better or at least comparable to the Sweet Things macaroons. Can you elaborate. My entire Passover meal came from Waldbaums from 1965 until I left NYC. Macaroons were Manishevitz in a can.

Does Mrs. Field's cookies count? I trust them. I'd try one of their veggieburgers. But probably not if they came out with baked clams. Perhaps that's a REAL litmus test of trust. Which food chain would you trust enough to order their baked clams?

You are right, it's Dutch Now what was the Ialian cheese? Maybe the label that looked like Hoch yBrig was Malga, one of the three handmade hard Itlain cheeses that they mentioned. I need a stenographer to accompany me.

Well maybe I got the gouda and italian mixed up. I may just give them a call!

I forget the name of the bakery, but it's on the same block as Veniero's, 1st ave and 11th or 12th, at the corner, and if I remember, they have fabulous macaroons all year long. If I'm confusing them with another bakery, then just get something else, because that bakery is definitely fabulous. I now wind up stopping there for something on my way to Veniero's, so each trip is a double desert day.

Speaking of vegetarians; What did the Zen master say to the hot dog vendor? Make me one with everything.

What's the halfway point, and do you have a target date for it? Do you think the halfway point by miles will also be the halfway point by meals?

I agree with F-G on rights. Interesting, as my wife is a vegetarian, I usually get an exception to the same tasting meal rule, as long as I keep a uniform number of courses. Nonetheless, I absolutely delight in restaurants that are completely flexible. Fleur de Lys in SF will do an all vegetarian menu, all seafood menu, all meat menu simultaneously at a table and delight us all.

I love this post. As my wife is a vegetarian, I often am in an advocacy position for them. An even Steve put down his pork fork to dabble! Some comments: 1) Going to BK/McDs and complaining about the grease taint is like going to a whorehouse and complaining you weren't loved. 2) It's great to have an option; even if it has the ever present beef molecules. 3) Cooking on the same grill should be expected. You can ask them to try to use a clear part of the grill, so it isn't in a puddle of fat. This isn't the same level of offense as McDonalds secret french fry recipe of earlier years (cook them in tallow but don't tell anyone). The difference is that one is obvious. 4) Vegetarians ALWAYS have to exercise Caveat Emptor. Domestic Example (common, even in a fine restaurant): Q: Is this a vegetarian soup? A: Yes. Q: Does it have meat? A: No Q: Is the stock a vegetable stock? A: No, it's chicken stock. Imported Example: Q: "Senza Carne?" (pointing to her mostly eaten pasta dish). A "Si, senza carne". Q "What's this?" (my wife points to a bone that was hidden at the bottom). A "No meat" beams the waiter! (ie., no meat, it was bone). Q "What's this?" repeats my wife. A "For the flavor!!" says the waiter, beaming even more, so proud! 5) Trader Joe's used to have the best burgers (Mushroom Burgers), as measured by a standard that doesn't include evocation of beef memories. Now, they have a new formulation that includes cheddar cheese, but isn't quite as good as the old one (especially the old one with cheddar on it). Now it's similar to a Garden Burger (which are pretty decent).

Since I don't know there list, it might help to ask about some specific wines. As for general advice in that price range, are there any 1995 or 1998 Chateau-neuf du Papes? Any wines from Behrens and Hitchcock?

Thanks Steve. I'm often in South Florida on business, and this sounds pretty cool. I gotta try the French Toast!

1) I will keep the 21 club image in my mind as something to aspire too. The free and easy approach vs. the demanding one seems more fun. Thank you for that. 2) I should say that I point out my disappointment rather than complain. I do it in a genteel fashion, without any suggestion of what should be done (unless it's truly poorly prepared). More often than not, the establishment makes it right graciously. 3) On the times you don't complain, is it something you continue to think about or discuss? That was the case for me, and that's what spoiled the evening - I really wasn't present for my guests.

Well my first trip had enough rude French that I didn't go back for 10 years. I think they died off, because since 1988, I've been 4 or 5 times and it's been fantastic each time. The second trip - magic in the Dordogne, canoeing (really just drifting) down the river, being transplanted back in time, my first taste of Duck gizzards, first truffles, cave paintings, chateaus, castles, really timeless. My second to last trip - Paris, Provence and the Cote d'Azur. Came back with three cases of Rhone wine and 30 hours of great stories. Roman ruins, Van Gogh's shadow, tea at a villa open to the public on Cap d'Antibes, the delights of the French beach, jazz in the streets of St.Remy.......

For me, it's pretty simple. My mom only cooked two items well. French Toast and Matzoh brie. So, 50% of my mom's repetoire was focused in those 8 days. Come to think of it, I would have eaten a lot better if we would have had matzoh brie during the rest of the year.

Great questions F-G. I was hoping someone would add some more intellectual gasoline while the fire was still strong. To your questions: 1) If I had infinite money for long enough, I might be very tolerant. But it's not only my personal finances. High prices are a statement of the proprieters belief in excellence. Or at least creating the appearance of that. I have a very different take as a businessman - I would unabashedly sell tofu dogs at $400/pop in some fancy package at some swanky address if I thought I would have a successful run. Capitalism rules. But as a consumer, my epicurean ideals creep in. And I become bothered, just as if I was a naive newbee to costly chow, when the goods don't live up to the billing. A double standard - perhaps. 2) Flawless meals - yes! Original Bouley for lunch 5 out of 6 times flawless Lespinasse with Grey Kunz (lunch) 3 out of 3 times flawless Fleur de Lys in San Francisco (dinner) 2 out of 3 times flawless 3) Does the customer have the power to influence - yes, in many cases as your writings on sitting at the sushi bar illustrate. 4) Excellent question on complaints. I usually complain if there is a problem. I found that when I didn't, I replayed the meal in my mind for days. If I complained, then I could let go no matter what (unless the offense was truly major). And how they deal with the problem is a mark of greatness. I remember being kept waiting for 20 minutes for lunch at Lespinasse (not so bad) for a table my first visit and getting a half bottle of Arnoux Les Suchots as a gesture without me even acting bothered. On less grand notes, how they handle overcooked fish (correcting it gracefully with no questions asked vs. wondering aloud if you can spell poisson) is a sign of a fine establishment. In short, I sometimes do more than forgive; it may endear them to me. 5) Truly great - that's hard. I'd say a dozen in NYC. But not if you use consistently flawless as a standard. I would use consistently ecstatic, as measured by your orgone levels when the bill comes. If you leave out the "truly" part, maybe another dozen. I can't help but observe that you can't be great without offending someone. The ire expressed at GT, which I always thought was the "nicest guy" among the truly great, proves that point. 6) Why is this on the NY board. Sad to say, I do most of my posting on the NY board, because that's where I'm drawn to - my home board (California) is such a lonely room. I even sneak comments about LA restaurants on this board because I get far better responses then in the California board. By all means, move it to the General Board if that's where it belongs.

Illustrating the point: Daniel, one of my favorites now, was under an 8 year boycott. My first time, for lunch, I was given a table practically in the kitchen my first lunch time, and the attitude of "be happy with that" when I requested a change got them on my "life's too short for this treatment" list. Also, my brother was victim of their old policy of pushing a table turn in 2 hours even if you hadn't had desert yet. I've only been twice since, but it was a paragon of gentile and excellent service, including a table change from an ok to a great table. I wonder if 8 years is a natural maximum on restaurant boycotts (assuming it isn't "forever").

Oh my, how could I forget Tsar cut smoked salmon at Petrossian's? The only time I saw by brother's knees buckle from food ecstasy (I guess because he's sitting while he eats most of the other time). Definitely my favorite, beyond doubt. But I was thinking of non royalty foods.

Let say you're going to a highly recommended restaurant (by the press, not your personal food guru) for the first time, and the meal is disappointing. Will you give it a second try? If the meal is $100/person or more, I usually don't. Too much competition in NYC and too few resources (money, having to make my original cardiovascular system last) to do that. So, while I love Daniel's, I don't go to Cafe Bouloud. The average food and bad service memory dominate the raves I continue to hear. Here in LA, I assume most people don't know enough about good food and high recommendations don't mean much, so I definitiely don't go back. Valentino's (blew it) and Patina (I need to be ecstatic to not notice $200) fit that bill. Are you more forgiving?

My mouth is watering! It may be the one thing to get me up early on a Sunday in NYC! Since the thread has tastily expanded into takeout, can someone opine on Murray's vs. my downtown benchmarks: Balducci's (smoked salmon) and Russ and daughters (usually whitefish)?