Carrot Top

The dining experience is definitely an interactive one. It is sad that some people enter into it with these sorts of attitudes. For they will never have a really great meal. It just reflects themselves back upon themselves. .................................................................................... Once, when I was dealing with a very difficult person that continually gave me "you-know-what", day after day after day, someone gave me some good advice which I've never forgotten. . .and which I still have to remind myself of when situations occur that make my temper rise. The advice given me was to look at the person and say (either out loud or if that is not possible, as when it is a customer, internally): "I am not going to let your problem be my problem." If you can do this re-direction, it truly is a wonderful thing.

Although I must add that the tone of voice and manner used in saying it is important, too. That line could have been made as a joke. And the server might not have taken it as a joke for whatever reason. Lots of times people take things in negative ways personally that were not meant to be taken that way. . . It's best to take it with a grain of salt, perhaps. After the initial blood-boiling hypertensive reaction.

Really, words do not suffice at these times. It is good to remember how to use deep breathing techniques for "relaxation". And then remembering that there might be some chicken breasts that require immediate flattening with a mallet and a strong arm can help, too.

Tell you what. I actually saw some moonshine jelly at the Farmer's Market the other day. So rather than feel guilty about totin' in the furrin stuff, thereby unbalancing the purity of your menu, Varmint (I understand this) I'll bring some jars of this along instead. And that is something I won't have to worry about keeping cold during transportation, too, which will make me an easier-going person. We'll give it a taste test and how it goes with the biscuits. Might be the next great addition to the breakfast table of the South. Or maybe it is already the great addition. . .(and I just didn't know it). . . and that's what makes everyone talk so sweet and slow.

If that's the direction y'all are headed in (settling down with the moonshine), we just might as well forego the cardoon fritters and I'll bring along a loaf of salt-riz bread that you can set right down with to scoop up the dip for supper. Has anyone committed to bringing pecan pies yet?

Darn. I am so totally flattened. And here I was, ready to offer up my new recipe for Old Cardoon Fritters in a Moonshine-Cornmeal Batter with Okra-Jalapeno-Hoop Cheese Dip. Oh well.

Now that I think of it, sous-vide would be the way to go. Old Cardoons Sous-Vide. (My ex-mother in law used to gather cardoons year round, till the things looked like a Green Giant ad. Peeled them and braised them in beef broth with herbs. A squirt of lemon at the end and a handful of Parmesan. Bitter. . .but real.)

Hey. I tried. Anyway, this is a Pig-Pickin'. Forget blanched new growth. In the best tradition of make-do, we could just use tough old stems. Good as a dentifrice, you know.

Betcha if you take a walk up the road to a nearby North Carolina overgrown field (if there is such a thing in the area ) you'll find some uh, quite local cardoons. Well who knows. Start up such a foraging trip among eGulleters and you might just find eighty people wandering along the roadside poking at the weeds. . . . What a sight for the neighborhood. It's a weed. Not a gourmet food. Or you might say it is a gourmet food that is a weed. . .anyway. Don't be so exclusive-minded. Modern Southern folk eat more than pigs and dress in more than the drawing room drapes. Or so I've heard. Guess we'll allllll find out.

Agreed with the idea of the memory being as valuable as the thing itself. (Though God knows, memory is a strange and fidgety thing to count on. . ) .............................................................. As to your comment above. . .don't you think that the circumstances of the meal have as much to do with the experience of how the food is appreciated as the food on the plate itself? Granted, the food on the plate is the star of the show. . .but where would the star be without the surrounding bit players (so to speak). Up to and including the bit players that are such ethereal things as a "real" smile from the person at the door of the restaurant. . .and taking this further. . .even including whether or not one approaches the table in a mood of good anticipation or in a mood of wanting something proved to them about the experience? Personally, and in the past in my role as chef, it always amazed me how much the personality and "mood" of the person that was dining had an affect on how the food really tasted to them. And how that stretch of measurement could be as wide as human nature is. If that makes sense.

And it is tension that makes any story worth telling (or worth writing) worth hearing or reading, too. Music and math. They both have ways of doing something with the area of the brain that measures or sorts out "time", don't they? And food. . .well. A meal is here just now, then gone. Poof!

Very interesting response, Behemoth, and I find that I agree with you. It was never the "eating", the "tasting" that gave me the rush with food, it was the creating of it. . .and possibly sensing the hints of underlying beauty. . .that was not just of the simplest external sort. And probably that was the genesis of where my boredom with being a chef started, when I decided to leave the field. There was simply something "more" on a deeper level for me that was calling out for exploration. An alternate metier. The thread that ran through the seams of the thing. Not that the study or creating of food is not as deep as any other metier. . I think it is possibly deeper than some, indeed, even moreso once you factor in the human connections that are so intense in the thinking of food and "what it is and does" beyond simply filling our tummies.

Adam. . .if you could. . .I wonder if you would "re-start" us again on what the original question was. I think that there are so many ways to "take" the question that you first posed (and I know that I certainly did take it so many ways. . .and we seem to be wandering all over the place, which is rather wonderful, but I'm not sure if it's "to your point"! )

Gosh, guys. I hope that in this Brave New World of science and numbers that there will still be room for intuition. . .intuition used to create good things to eat. . . based on foods that have been held in one's hands, caressed with one's eyes and tasted on one's tongue. Can science do it all? Is it all encompassing, even in ways of determination of new creations. . .what would "work" and what would not? Is math, finally, the only way to an across-the-board appreciation of things? Paradoxical, if true, that these pure, cold, stripped down things would lead to the best sorts of pleasures for humans. And a surprise, too, to those in all fields that have created all sorts of things in the past without considering these subjects (in their formal form) while creating. Personally, it is my sense that most things that have been created in the world, whether "emerging food style" or whether some other thing that pushes boundaries, have been created through intuition and through knowledge of the metier worked in. Not through the more formal approach of measurement and analysis, but through inspiration and desire to "play" in the metier. That there may be some access of sorts (again, intuitively) to the rules of mathematics and science that determine balance during these creative moments, I won't argue. There must be. But finally I must stand firmly on the side of intuition backed by knowledge, rather than science playing footsies in other fields. Tough job, but someone's gotta do it. (And since I lack the scientific mind, it might as well be me! )

Ah. How simple haycorns are, and honey and thistle. How wonderfully simple. You reminded me that I have two books on my bookshelf (unread yet, a gift from a friend) on Pooh. "The Pooh Perplex" by Frederick C. Crews which includes such chapters as "Winnie and the Cultural Stream" or "A.A. Milne's Honey-Balloon-Pit-Gun-Tail- Bathtubcomplex" and then another book; "Postmodern Pooh" by the same author with chapters such as "The Fissured Subtext: Historical Problematics, the Absolute Cause, Transcoded Contradictions, and Late-Captitalist Metanarrative (in Pooh), or yet another "The Courage to Squeal". (Yes, apparently, thank goodness, they are satire.) And there is always "The Tao of Pooh" which is a rather nice little book, too. Pooh rules.

Well, as usual I got geographically confused about where Raleigh is and thought I was driving to Winston-Salem. Only a difference of two and a half extra hours or so. Nevertheless, we'll start out the day before with the pastries in a cooler in the car. . .which will then be popped into a fridge in the hotel in Greensboro where we'll stay on Saturday in order to do the Water Park. Naturally my thoughts will be on all of you struggling in the heat of the kitchen preparing wonderful things, and I won't enjoy a moment of it. I hope you will all take pity on me, acting like an etranger, a auslander, a furriner. . .bringing along Viennese thingies to eat, and that you will take a bite or two of them. The True Southerners can avert their eyes whilst this occurs if they wish. So far the list is chocolate-cherry torte (it has a layer of marzipan "built in" for those who care ); nusstorte layered with apricot filling; and a linzertorte. Mostly because those are things I can almost make in my sleep. I do hope you will have some schlag around for the linzertorte. . But here is my question: What time should late arrivals like me and mine be planning to arrive at this hoedown?

I feel as if I should be putting on a fluffy 1950's party dress with some high heels and a bouffant hairdo when I say this. . .but anyway. . . (I've wracked my brain and can come up with no other answer, Rogov) A smile. The universal language. ( )

Wow. Sandra, I am curious. What sort of school is this? The schools that I have seen are so overburdened even when running on a good budget base that the idea of a teacher taking time to check all their student's foods for "healthiness" would simply never, ever, happen. Karen

Interesting response, tfa. (Hope you don't mind my giving you a nickname there ) It might be quite an fascinating story to ask your Mum about what and how she ate while growing up, someday. These stories are full of tidbits of good things to muse over. . . Anyway. The yin and the yang of what gives impetus in life. They are both useful!

Good taste? I don't know. Beauty? Perhaps! Maybe there's an underlying mathematical logic to good food that has yet to be identified. ← Wow. Very interesting link. Hmmm. They've done it to the human face. . . but finding the underlying mathematic logic to good food?! Phew. Very fun stuff here. I wonder how a link could be made between the idea of the Golden Rectangle and food though. The balance on the plate, as Jack says, the uneven number that often just makes the whole seem "right", yes. But taste. . .how could they measure taste? I bet they (you know "they". . ."those people". . .the Unidentified Intelligent Ones ) could break foods down and measure the chemical components and study that to see if there were some sort of mathematic balance. I wonder.

Well, Rogov. . .it is possible that I might have a "mathematical bent" in ways, but it's never been indulged. The part of my brain that would do "symbolic reasoning" has simply never been used. . .it is totally flat-line, nothing there. . .but the few times I have tried it. . .(as in a recent course I took in "Language and Logic") well. . .I must tell you, it made me quite giddy in a very strange way. It made me laugh with delight, as if being tickled. It was pure clear pleasure, rather like being on a picnic on a perfect day where there were no bugs around and an excellent bottle of champagne to drink under a tree. Thank goodness the professor shared my delight in the subject she taught and understood my laughter. I really had fears at first that I would be kicked out of class for whenever she explained something well my head had a spinning sensation and I just had to giggle quietly in the back of the classroom while the other students firmly kept their eyes averted. . . So I can understand the common appreciation of it as a language. It is a lovely language and someday maybe I'll find time to learn it. If I tried to do it now, the children would likely end up waiting hours for their supper while they listened to me alternately roaring with laughter and groaning with that stupid feeling one has when the brain is totally recalcitrant. But where on earth do you manage to find studies that detail which concepts have triggered aesthetic satisfaction across the centuries? I am curious. . . The columns you wrote on the Larousse classics must have been wonderful. Your readers are very lucky! Hmmm. Living in Appalachia as I do now, I might be able to persuade a chicken farmer to provide me with some cockscombs. That would be an adventure! Maybe an adventure worthy for one of those eGullet weekly foodblogs, hmm? "Seeking the Cockscomb in America" or something of that nature. . .if that happens, I will definitely seek your cockscombs-cooking advice!

Well said, Doctor Paul, and fair enough. The problem is that restaurants do not have a standard rule of practice that is mandated. Each one is different. . .each one operates as best it can within its budget and profit constraints to try to survive. And often those profit margins are not terrific, particularly for small independent-type places. I am sure that someone here can supply the number percentage of how many new restaurants opened go out of business in the first year. It would be interesting to see if there are other "professions" that have the same percentage. I am not saying "aye" or "nay" to what you suggest. . .just saying that the restaurant business can not be compared in many ways to "other professions". Perhaps, if it does become more professionalized in terms of requiring formal educational credentials from all that work there. . .and pay good wages with benefits to all that work there. . .and put in more controls and assurances and mandates. . .it would become more like other professions, and then of course the costs of everyone's meals would go up. But then again, many well-regarded corporations have been outsourcing and going to part-time employees in the past ten or fifteen years anyway, just to survive (supposedly) and they do not have the same precipitous situation as many restaurants. To my mind, asking that the corner restaurant do this is rather like taking the tack that as far as buying, say, clothing goes. . .that one would only want to buy if assured that the clothing were sweat-shop free, etc etc. This is a wonderful idea. But to really do it, and insist upon it. . .would certainly be difficult for both the buyer and the industry. It is just plain complicated. Taking this idea a bit further, it must be said that restaurants are in one of the larger categories of employers for workers "without" formal skills. In the US, we have a lot of immigrants that would be out of work if the situation developed so that everyone who worked at a restaurant needed credentials or formal education. There will always be people in the world "just starting out", there will always be those who need a very basic sort of job. . .and this industry provides that living for many people. Although it is not the ultimately best thing in the world, in my opinion, it needs to be there, this opportunity. That. . .is one of the things that has made this country a wonderful place. . .the fact that one can "start from nothing". What would be interesting to see. . .just for comparison purposes. . .is a budget from an average independent restaurant. . .one that did not make a ton of money, but that did manage to survive, in the usual way that restaurants do. Take that budget and re-do it including good wages and professional level compensation for all of the staff. Then figure out what the average cost per meal would be. Then figure out whether the customer would pay for it. Ultimately, this is what it comes down to. ....................................................................... On the other hand, most "businesses" do not allow access to their operating budgets unless they are a publicly owned company and even then there is only the simplest of records provided to the public. Why should restaurants have to do this? They are there to provide food and service. Any critical response should really be to that food and service, not to their internal financial operations. Again, unless they are a publicly-held restaurant. Really, there has to be some line drawn as to what people (as customers) are allowed and encouraged to poke their noses into in this world. The focus of the business should be able to be on providing the best product they can, not on explaining "how things work" for anyone who happens to be curious, or for anyone who wants to be "persuaded" to spend their money at a certain place. It is very easy, though, to vote with one's feet if the food or the service does not meet one's standards in a restaurant. . .so that option is always there. And the option is always there for businesses to explain how they work, if they wish to. But they should not "have to" unless the consumer's physical or mental health is at stake (and this is covered in restaurants by extensive health code laws)(at least the physical part, who knows about the mental part. . .sometimes the way people relate to food is somewhat nutty ); or if the consumer's pocketbook is directly tied to the operation, as it would be if they were stockholders. Let the restaurants concentrate on doing what it is they set out to do. Provide their customers with a great meal and great service. There are textbooks than can be referred to on this subject for anyone who wishes to understand the underlying stuff better.

Still wordless, I can only offer what Dorothy Sayer writes of your subject, Maggie: "I have never regretted Paradise Lost since I discovered it contained no eggs-and-bacon."

Mmm. I remember reading of these garnishes in Larousse when I first started cooking. How I longed to make that strange thing! I even went into some butcher shops and asked if they could get cockscombs. Well. That made their day. Interesting that it ended up in what you call aspirational English cooking. I wonder if that is what is happening with us here in the US in ways. Derivations of fine things watered down to terrible parodies of the original, in the ways of middle-class convenience foods.

My first thought was that your trifle recipe sounded very sexy, Adam. But why, when I reached the second line, did I start thinking you sounded like my Jewish grandmother? Sorry. It must have been Rogov's math post that made me this way. P.S. Actually, yes. It would be nice to see the recipe for chicken with sweet custard sauce if you find time to post it! Thanks!