FaustianBargain

I only read that he is uncomfortable about serving it anymore. I did not read that he "publicly and sanctimoniously' chastised an entire industry. I went back to read and re read the chicago tribune article. I definitely did not see him: 1.chastising an entire industry. 2.chastising other chefs for serving it Also, what is the background of this chef-chef dinner thing? Who organised it? Was it a personal invitation from Trotter to Heston.B and Tetsuya at his home? At the end of the day, it is a personal decision. If noone spits on your plate, what do you care? What I find particularly interesting is that Trotter comments are narrated by the chicago tribune journalist as if he was there when they were uttered. Was he an eyewitness? You cannot put someone's words within quotes unless you are reporting the comment verbatim. Journalism rules. So, where is this coming from? What were the circumstances under which this report was penned? When did this exchange take place? Yes. That is why he can afford to not serve it and make a statement about it. If he were a new kid on the block, he'd probably have to serve Foie Gras regardless of how he feels about the issue. What is a 'comped meal'? If 'comped' is roughly translated as 'reimbursed', who is 'comping' it? If it is being 'comped', how is 'private behaviour'? Why not? Are personal beliefs valid only when it is backed by religion? Does Trotter pay his bills with accumulated karma? His restaurant is there to make profits, right? I am sure you know how it is to squeeze profits from running a restaurant. The bigger an establishment and the fancier the ingredients, the more difficult it is to sustain it. I couldnt agree with you more. I am sure Trotter didnt say all this in a press conference. I searched Google extensively after Carolyn pointed out something interesting. This is a Chicago Tribune exclusive. No other publication is following this piece. Gosh! I have read it a few times already, but can you point to me the bit where he criticises others?

Well? Are vegetarian/Moslem/Jewish cooks/chefs hypocrites if they cook and serve food that they deny for themselves in order to adhere to a belief system?

Why? I know vegetarians who dont eat meat but they cook it because it is their livelihood. Surely you dont think that the Moslems and Jews who cook pork and serve it to others without eating it are hypocrites?

I think Gourmet Cruelty is more visible than the other groups because of the pictures on their website. I think some of those pictures are from a slaughterhouse near LA, but some of them are clearly marked Sonoma Foie. Until, Sonoma Farms come up with their own visual/photographic evidence of their 'spacious' duck dwellings, the impression that their ducks are being illtreated will not disappear. I was wondering if you were allowed to take photographs. Surely, 25sq.ft (25x25 ft, right?) with 10-12 ducks wandering inside that space is a lot.

This makes sense to me: since Trotter claims to want to run a restaurant that is cruelty-free, how can he go about proving this to his clients -- and, now that he's gone ballistic in the paper, to those of us who think of him as an insulting, moralistic blowhard? It's tough to make the negative case, but if you're going to stand on a soapbox, you'd better be sure it's damned sturdy..... ← What is there to say? Everyone is so sure that they can dictate and direct what others can do. derricks: When did you visit? Is it possible that the conditions were different before 2003. The evidence presented in court supposedly related to the time before 2003.

Carolyn, I have no reason not to believe you. What happens during the last two weeks? What are their living conditions like during the last two weeks?

It takes time for awareness to spread. The majority of Americans can only afford cheap chickens. What forces are these? Are these animal rights activists? Your statement would imply that they would protest unacceptable conditions in foie gras farms, but will ignore or condone factory farmed poultry. Let us take a cross section. There are PETA folks, chefs like Trotter and the average consumer like me. #1 PETAesque activists: It is unlikely that they would protest foie gras and fail to protest factory farmed poultry in appalling conditions. #2 People like Trotter. I assume he doesnt use Tyson chicken in his kitchens. We shall never know until he discloses. Either way. #3. Someone like me. I would decline food that doesnt satisfy certain criteria. The question is whether I can afford to...Any idealistic stance..any moralistic stance..any value based stance can afford to exist only if one has the luxury and strength of conviction to rigidly adhere to one's closely held beliefs. I can. Many cannot. If someone objects to foie gras, but can only afford Tyson and does not desire to give up on their cheap source of protein, it is not hypocrisy. It is merely a decision based on necessity. Even if they can afford to buy free range poultry and still insists on picking up plastic wrapped Tyson chicken while still holding a stance against foie gras because it is 'cruel', then it is still a choice. I'd suggest to the pro-foie gras band in the US to work with legislation, not with tactics of guilt, name calling etc. There is no law against hypocrisy. There is a law against cruelty against animals. That is why they banned production of foie gras in California. That is the simple answer, Bux.

Hmm...I understood that feed gutter=feed trough. I also assumed that feed gutter/trough means that they werent forcefed with a tube stuck down their gullets. And if it were the case, the fact that these birds were active and running around meant, to me, at least, that they werent confined to cages like most factory farmed birds are... Which part did you think I misunderstood? You do not have to be cruel to raise an animal. Yes. And? This doesnt eliminate the possibility that an animal can be raised in a cruel manner. No, I didnt think you implied anything like that. I just did not understand the challenge direct at those non-farm folks to work in a farm for a month. What would that achieve? It would, just as you said earlier, would only increase the strength of their convictions. Anti-cruelty people will be unchanged in their point of view. Those who are unaware of farming practices and apathetic towards perceived cruelty may or may not change their opinion, but the other group is unlikely to change their stance. I dont know where the disconnect in our communication occured. If it was because I misinterpreted something you said, I apologise for the confusion.

Can you tell us what you saw, Carolyn? I'd like to know.

Ok, we can clarify here. Mabelline, did your German Stepgrandpa raise his ducks and geese for foie gras? I'd take that offer. What do you think will change a person who has a stance against factory farming if he/she goes to live in a real working farm for a month? Explain this to me, please. Do you think that anti-animal cruelty folks will enter a "real working farm" and start campaigning for cruelty towards animals? Or pro-factory farmed foie gras, in this case. P.S. I am sorry if I gave you the impression that I was mocking your spelling. God knows, I am fluent in typo.

Her German Stepgrandpa does not represent everyone. She also indicated that he raised ducks and geese. Even if we assume that they were raised for foie gras, I doubt if anyone these days are 'forcefeeding their ducks and geese with noodles cooked in butter in a feed gutter. Also, I would question whether there was a need for intensive farming of ducks or even such a high demand for foie gras during her German Stepgrandpa's time. If they are free range, they are not factory farmed. I dont think her Stepgrandpa ran a foie gras factory. (Did he, M?) I am saying that the conditions under which Mabelline's German Stepgrandpa raised his ducks and geese should be the same conditions under which ducks and geese raised for foie gras today if we are to believe that most foie gras that comes to our tables isn't the product of excessive, unnecessary and irresponsible cruelty to animals. Just because something can be done doesnt mean that it is being done. Just because something was done in the past under different circumstances, in a different enviroment, time and culture doesnt mean that that behaviour is passed on unaltered. There is no room for such an assumption and it cannot be validly supported.

You'd choose to be a factory farmed, force fed duck rather than a factory farmed chicken? Hmmm...Why, pray do tell? I realise that it sounds as if means something, but it is merely a meaningless statement repeated over and over again without people understanding the import of the words that are strung together in that order. But I have always wanted to know why someone would choose and prefer forcefeeding over and above what factory farming has to offer. I think this foie gras issue has attracted the attention of many who werent even aware of factory farming. Thanks especially due to those who prefer being forcefed factory farmed ducks over factory farmed chickens! See? One stone, two birds.(bad example, but you get the idea) Yet another quote that is popular and has been used ad-nauseum, ad-infinitum without sufficient understanding. A small producer of foie gras(think about 200-300 ducks a year, not in the 1000s) exploits this natural gorging instinct. These artisanal farmers allow their ducks to be free range and I believe these birds do show the least amount of trauma while being 'force fed'. This is known as 'gavage' and the French term for such artisanally raised ducks is fermier. Even in France, highly intensive and cruel gavage does takes place. The percentage of fermier that comes to your favourite restaurants is rather small. I dont think even the chef can tell unless he sources them directly from a producer he knows well.

The last statement is true only if all the fois(sic) in the world is the same and nothing but the same ones that resided inside the geese and ducks your German Stepgrandpa raised.

I have beside me The River Cottage Meat Book by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall. The man raised his own livestock, slaughtered it and ate it too. And he had painstalkingly documented it so we can see it all in glorious colour in print and it was televised for the Idiot Box. I'd call Fearnley-Whittingstall an animal rights activist. There is a panel illustrating the slaughter of a young bovine creature. It begins with the animal being ushered into the back of a vehicle and proceeds to show the stunning, hanging, bleeding, skinning and complete dismantling of the animal. This is followed by recipes(with pictures even) using the very same dismantled parts of the dead animal that becomes nourishing food. Starting from his 'Meat Manifesto' and through the 500+ pages, his message is clear. Respect. Foie gras, said to have its origins in Egypt 5,000 years ago, is created by force-feeding the birds with grain, thus causing their livers--and the rest of them--to grow dramatically. This always -always- annoys me. So what if foie gras has its origins in Egypt 5000 years ago? What IS the point? Does a 5000 year old practice have more credence over a relatively younger one? Trotter said he became uncomfortable with serving the delicacy after visiting three foie gras farms (he refused to identify them) and concluding that the ducks were suffering as they were kept in small cages and fed grains through tubes inserted down their esophagi. Ermm. Arent there only three farms in the States? Upon being told Trotter's comments, Tramonto would say only, "Charlie's in my prayers." No comment. Nevertheless, Guillermo Gonzalez, owner of Sonoma Foie Gras in California, argued that Trotter and those who follow him are just furthering the animal-rights cause. "They may not realize that they are being instrumental in the ultimate agenda of the movement, which is to terminate the consumption of animals for food altogether," Gonzalez said. WTF? Is Gonzalez suggesting that Trotter have no opinion and that it should be sacrificed at the altar of Foie Gras Producers? Hudson Valley Foie Gras co-owner Michael Ginor, whose New York company produces about 4,000 foie gras ducks a week, accused Trotter of taking a stance based on calculation. Hmm. Let us see. What Ginor and Gonzalez are saying is that Charlie Trotter has to protect the Foie Gras Producers(2, arent they?) and their fat profits. How utterly ungracious of Charlie.T! I think I will stop quoting because there is limit on the number of words that can be quoted from news articles. some more points: I think the person who spoke about growing up in south-west France in Foie Gras farms should stop imagining that SW France is in anyway similar to California or New Jersey. There is no history of Foie Gras production in this country. What is very interesting to me is the rigid stance of these FG producers and their insistence that they are doing nothing wrong. There is enough material online and video/photographic evidence of the horrible conditions in these Foie Gras farms. Maybe people should start taking note of other exceptionally cruel practices and appalling conditions in the animal rearing industry instead of turning a blind eye to FG farm conditions in the US. They definitely ought to stop imposing their opinions on others. It is one thing to whine that they are 'not understood' and a completely different issue to demand sympathy.

chefzadi, under herbs, what is Vervain?

Thank you for doing the blog again, bleu... And it is nice to 'see' you. edit': you dont *have* to stop, you know? Mods, can she go on and on and on....?

I had to smile when I read this. I remember one of your replies to an old thread of mine. Something about chocolate in stews for texture and to thicken rather than for the taste and flavour, iirc. I too was slightly confused when the word 'civet' was used then. It has been a long journey. Thanks, ya'll!

Canadian, you said? They can be quite aggressive, yes. It is a tad intimidating. I have had ducks trying to peck my feet, but they are, afterall, ducks. The geese are huge, but the swans are downright scary.

Swans are vicious birds. They are beautiful, but they are downright mean. I will never forget the hissing that came out of one immensely graceful bird. I remember thinking that they were quite muscular. That neck!! I vaguely recall hearing that they are monogamous and they never seperate. These are factors that may have contributed to their wildness. I dont think swans can be domesticated. Geese are also difficult to domesticate too, iirc. More difficult than ducks, but easier than swans.

Yup! I made some recently in my oven! ← get outta here!!! you baked it instead of frying it??? how do you get that dark black colour?

mushrooms? or something fried? gah.

are there any spanish recipes that incorporate cheese in the dish..other than a sprinkling on top, that is...

woohoo! I found 'more milagai' today! my all time favourite with curd rice. I had forgotten how strong the aroma of moremilagai can be while it is being prepared. is anyone else familiar with these? now, i have to go and open the windows to clear the smoke.

fascinating waitrose article on icelandic cuisine and you can find icelandic recipes here. hrútspungur - ram's testicles pickled in whey and pressed into a cake hákarl - rotten shark meat that has been buried for up to six months to ensure sufficient decomposition svie - icelandic sheep head cheese. same process as with veal/calf or pig. slátur - icelandic haggis. sorta. sheep leftovers cooked in its stomach. skyr - a kind of cheese made from yoghurt and bacteria culture(i have tasted this. you'd think its bizzare, but it looks like caramel and it is simply brilliant) brennivín - traditional icelandic brew. a sort of schnapps made from potatoes and flavoured with caraway. a marine biologist friend of mine whose job takes him to arctic norway for six months in a year raves about whale steaks. whale steaks and whale pizzas are popular in iceland too, it seems. edit: i hope bobby fisher likes icelandic fare. putrefied shark meat is a far cry from sushi, no?

I have recipes that call for 10-12 hours of cooking. Tripe sold to you is probably pre-soaked. Ask when in doubt. It helps if you have a norman style tripiere, a special tripe cooking apparatus.