Carlsbad
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Posts posted by Carlsbad
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I have quite a few French cookbooks, some more useful than others, but I think we can always use more.
By the way, I like Chez Panisse Cooking, and I like Alice Water's Chez Panisse Vegetables even better, but I don't consider either of them really French. I also like eating at Zuni (the cookbook is not my favorite), but I don't think of them as French either.
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I used to be a regular at Chez Jay back in the '70's. Oh, I could tell some stories about that place.
Another cool dive was The Galley, not too far from Jay's. Their specialty was 3 1/2 pounds of steamed clams. I wonder if it is still there. -
Olimendi's in Capistrano Beach (I think the address really is Dana Point, but it's Capistrano Beach to me).
It's on the Coast Hwy just south of Dana Point proper. Very good Mexican food across PCH from the beach. It's family owned, and has an "interesting decor." Everything from tacos to interesting fish dishes at reasonable prices. I've been going there for years and it's been there a lot longer than I've been going there. Nixon used to go there, but don't let that deter you.
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I don't like brunch in the US, and we have some "good" ones where I live. Talk about an invitation to eat too much. I'm not about to search them out in Paris during my trips of a week or two there when there are so many places and so little time. To each his own though.
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I would second robert brown's recommendation of Tre Galline. We had a little trouble finding it, and had to ring the bell to get in, but the food was outstanding and our tasting menu seemed like a steal to me. Very interesting wine list, too. I also agree that the cafes in Torino are exceptional, especially for an aperitivo in the early evening, when they have great spreads of complimentary appetizers.
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I think it appears highly doubtful there was a trip, but this was a fun discussion anyway. I just wonder what the instructor was thinking.
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I think her mission would be the same as it is at Chez Panisse: serve the best, freshest, sustainably grown food, simply prepared, with influences from Italy and France, and filtered through Northern California. I think it is very good food that tastes clearly of the ingredients, and most people who like good food would appreciate it. I question whether the French would think an American woman celebrity chef with little formal training could be worth the fuss, and I wonder whether the public and critics might be unduly harsh. I see little upside and a great deal more downside for Alice Waters such a venture, and I would have been very surprised if it had happened.
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I think it is interesting to think about how an Alice Waters restaurant would do in France. I've loved the food at Chez Panisse almost since it opened, and I still try to get there once a year- usually to the Cafe. I have always thought that the food there is influenced at least as much by Italy as France, but I do not really think of it as a French or Italian restaurant. The essence of the restaurant is taking the best produce that can be found and preparing it very simply. (There is also a component of sustainable farming that comes into play in the concept as well.) Indeed, some of the food isn't so much cooked as just served. That concept was quite revolutionary for an American when Chez Panisse first started more than 30 years ago. In those days, farmers markets even in California were few and far between. Now they are everywhere.
I am not sure that Chez Panisse would have become what it is in many locations in the US. The San Francisco Bay Area has the right combination of sophisticated food-lovers and activism that makes Chez Panisse such a success. I have recommended it to people who simply don't get what it's about, and I think there are a significant number of people like that. As an extreme example, at the cafe, one of the desserts usually consists of fruit and only fruit. By this I mean, you may get a peach with an apricot or two, and a knife to cut them with. That's it. The fruit will be about as good as it gets, but for some people, it isn't going to work. The other desserts are more conventional of course.
I have found that the restaurants in Paris that I enjoy most are based on seasonal market produce much like at Chez Panisse. (Obviously, this is not a new concept in France or Italy, as was discussed at length on the Fernand Point thread, but there does seem to be a new or renewed emphasis on it, at least from what I can see.) A meal at Chez Panisse is not so different from one I had at Le Troquet last summer for instance.
Alice Waters tells a story in the introduction of her excellent vegetable cookbook about a meal for a charitable event in New York City not long after the restaurant began gaining a national reputation where she was invited to do one course. She says she flew back for the event with boxes and boxes of absolutely fresh, organic, hand-picked, seasonal greens, from which she made a salad. One of the famous chefs looking at her contribution to the meal remarked, "That's not cooking, that's shopping!" I have had the same type of simple salads in France and Italy, but never a peach and two apricots with a knife to cut them.
I am inclined to believe that many Parisians would enjoy Chez Panisse food if they gave it a chance. Whether they would is another question. I don't know the answer, but I have my doubts.
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"I just had 3 fabulous meals in 10 days, that equal any others for years; more or less falling into them. OK, so the rest weren't Mt. Everest."
Don't tell anyone, but the secret is to have someone who knows what makes a good restaurant scan ten places and find the three fabulous ones. Then, when you have your week (or two this year) in Paris, you go to the ones he said were fabulous. It's pretty simple.
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Paris does have a lively jazz scene. I think you can have dinner at Le Bilboquet on the rue St-Benoit in the 6th, but I doubt the food is great and my impression is the place is past its prime musically. Maybe not though. I have always had an early dinner elsewhere before going to a club. It used to be easy to find out who is playing where at jazzvalley.com, but they closed the website down a while back. In addition to the previously mentioned Franc Pinot, other possibilities include Duc des Lombards, Sunset/Sunside, and Sept Lezards. The bar at the Hotel Lutetia has a trio and usually a vocalist Wednesday through Saturday beginning about 10:00 pm for the price of a moderately expensive drink. It's an easy drop-in place after dinner, but you don't get the cellar atmosphere.
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"One reads in Elizabeth David's "French Provincial Food" about eating heartily and reasonably just about everywhere in France, but that was before I was born and times may change."
It's strange to read this since I pulled out the tattered paperback copy of this book I bought in the '70's for the first time in years, because I had some nice carrots I wanted to turn into soup. The soup was as simple and good as I recalled, and everyone liked it.
I have considered Aux Lyonnais several times, and am still considering it for next summer. The disappointment expressed by Andy Lynes and John Talbot does not help its cause, but it was measured and there is still a chance. Since my time in Paris is limited, I agonize over every meal. I always try to include at least one "traditional" bistro in every trip, and I generally have enjoyed them. To be honest, however, I've found the food at more modern establishments much more rewarding lately. Aux Lyonnais seems to have a modern bent, so maybe I would like it. I'm still not sure. I do have 14 days this next trip, so there is more room for error.
I have fond memories of meals in traditional spots, but lately I've been disappointed. Maybe it is because they aren't as good as they used to be. But I think in large part it is a tendency on my part to remember things fondly. For instance, I still remember a duck in port sauce with green olives I had at Aux Charpentiers more than 15 years ago as one of the best duck dishes I've had. I haven't returned because I get to Paris so infrequently. I suspect I might be disappointed with it now. (If anyone has been there recently, I would be curious to hear an opinion.) On my trip last June, we went to La Fontaine de Mars. It was a delightful evening- a nice table outside, great service, nice wine, good foie gras, but the duck confit wasn't that great. I found the food at Le Troquet far more exciting.
As Bux suggests, I'm paying a lot of attention to John Talbot's recommendations next trip.
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I think I missed my calling.
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The Michelin red guides are restaurant and hotel guides, while the green guides are sightseeing guides. The newer green guides have some very limited eating and hotel suggestions, mostly on the lower end. You can get the some of what is in the green guide and most of what is in the red guide, including maps and some other information, online at /www.viamichelin.com It takes a few minutes to figure out how to set up an account, but it's free and once you do it's a very helpful reference. The Bib Gourmand restaurants on the guide are well-priced and generally very good.
I always make reservations where they accept them, and they are necessary for many of the best places.
I would suggest Au Bon Accueil and Le Troquet. John Talbot's list of recommendations is what I'm going to be working off on my next trip.
(Edited to clarify what is on the Michelin website.)
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I agree. Maybe I'm getting old and cranky, but I'm not about to waste a meal in Paris on a place where I can't even see what I'm eating.
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I've been allover egullet reading posts about French food. There seem to be alot of burning questions about what it is and the direction it's taking, "the death of Haute Cuisine", French influence on American cuisine, the Michelin rating system, etc... I'm moved to offer some of my experiences and "behind the scenes" knowledge on these topics. But I'm not sure where I should post this.
Please do. I, for one, would love to hear your thoughts on all these subjects. On this thread is fine, but you may want to start a new one since I'm sure it will be a lively topic.
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Bocuses (rather a great communicator of the NC than being on of it's inventors) second trip - he took an airplane for the first time in his life at the age of 40 when he travelled to the US - led him to Japan. Could be a confusion at work here?
I thought there may be. If there ever was a French chef's trip to Japan that was considered seminal in the shaping of the "Nouvelle Cuisine" concept, it was Bocuse's. I never heard of such a thing concerning Point.
I'm leaning toward the confusion theory, too. Bocuse speaks of his trip to Japan in his cookbook, and how he taught a class to 1500 Japanese students, saying he learned as much as he taught there. He also says he learned how to "cook vegetables very well, which meant very quickly" in Hong Kong.
He also discusses what is translated as "the new cuisine," which he says is "the true cuisine" based first on emphasis of quality of ingredients and "striving to retain the original taste of the food." He then cites other "rules" of the new cuisine, including making up a menu only after going to the market and seeing what is available, which he says "obliges you to simplify, to lighten your menus." He notes cooking fish pink around the bone, vegetables crunchy, and pasta firm as being part of the simplification process. In the same paragraph, he credits Point for abolishing "all those sauces, those complicated, overly rich dishes, those garnishes that were the law in nineteenth-century cooking." Interestingly, he also says that he thinks presentation is "not very important."
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I have pulled out old books I haven't cracked in years because of this thread, and frankly, I'm more confused by the contradictory information in various sources. I say this as an excuse if my thoughts seem rambling and imprecise.
Although the term "Nouvelle Cuisine" has been used on and off for at least 200 years to describe various points in the evolution of French cuisine, most people think of the use by Gault and Millau in the '70's. A story in Cooking the Nouvelle Cuisine in America, a 1979 cookbook which I bought during the height of the NC hype and which I last opened maybe 10 years ago, has a story that supposedly tells how G&M got started on the NC campaign. It is said that they were working fo a newspaper in the late '60's touring and reviewing restaurants awarded three stars by Michelin. At Bocuse, they had a superb but classic lunch, and when they returned for dinner, they asked Bocuse for a lighter meal. He obliged with a simple green bean salad. At first, they were unimpressed, but were "stunned" by the first bite. The beans were undercooked and crunchy, exceptionally flavorful, and had a "fresh garden perfume." He followed this with tiny rouget. They raved to him, and he told them that they wanted simplicity, they should visit the Troisgros brothers, who then had been awarded one star. The book calls this the birth of the "movement." Whether this story is true or not, who knows?
Although Bocuse is included in the this story and is said to be one of the innovators of NC, I remember looking at the GM guide a number of years ago, and, as I recall, they said he prepared classic dishes in a grand manner, but he wasn't innovative enough and was not rated as high as some of the other 3 star places because of it. Beyond that, Bocuse's cookbooks, at least those I have, are traditional, with all the classic sauces that are thicken with flour.
Every source I have seen seems to agree that Point's insistence on the very best ingredients and cooking them to bring out the essential qualities of the ingredients were innovative for the times. It is suggested by some that, although French chefs always wanted good ingredients, when marinades and elaborate sauces are used, it is not as important. This line of thinking is that if a chicken is prepared to enhance the chicken taste, the quality of the chicken is more important than when it is cooked with strong flavors and heavily sauced. There is also the inference that standards had slipped and Point and his followers stressed it more than others of the day.
Two other forces are discussed with respect to Point. One is the automobile, which allowed people to drive to Vienne on the way to the South. This mobility is said to have increased the quality of provincial restaurants and led to the incorporation of regional dishes into grander restaurants. The other force is the increase in highly-rated, chef-owned restaurants, which is said to have increased rather dramatically during and after his time.
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From what I have seen, I think the closest thing you will find to what Point served is at Bocuse. It's hardly earth-shattering today, but it was a different concept of using the best, freshest ingredients and somewhat lighter sauces. But one of Point's famous quotes was "Butter. Give me butter and then more butter." Bernaise was one of his favorite sauces, of which he said, "Let your eyes wander for a moment and the sauce is unusable." Not all that modern today. However, one thing that is still modern is the notion that each ingredient should be the finest and that cooking should enhance the natural flavor. Point also believed in training and counseling others, which was apparently not that common then, including Bocuse, Chapel, the Troisgros brothers, Outhier, Francois Bise and Thuilier among others.
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I first became interested in Point back in the '70's, when his widow was still running the restaurant, after he had died in 1955 at the age of 58. Unfortunately, I never made it there. I still have a clipping written by Herb Caen, the San Francisco columnist, dated June 28, 1972, which recounts a meal at Restaurant de la Pyramide. After saying that it wasn't the same as when Point was alive, he recounts a meal of "truffled foie gras in brioche, a delicate trout mousse, the salmon in champagne sauce done to a glazed turn, the duck carelessly plucked but delicious between the pinfeathers. Cheese, sorbet and pastry are included in this prix fixe dinner of 80 francs (about $16 per person), which seems like an unbelieveable bargain. But with a fair bottle of Nuits St. Georges, cover charges and whatnot, the tab came to about $57 for two."
One of my old cookbooks has a photo of a carte from La Pyramide, dated March 7, 1964. The price for the 5 course menu was then "45 francs sans vin." Another has a copy of the carte from March 2, 1978, when the price had risen to 160 francs. Excerpts from the wine list in 1978 show an impressive list of Bordeaux and Bugundy, but also many wines from the Rhone Valley and even house-bottled Moulin-a-Vent and Julienas. One note from 1978 indicates the restaurant used a kilo of truffles per day.
Unfortunately, I can find no reference to a trip to Japan in anything I have. In fact, there is the following description of him as follows in the book Great Chefs of France: "He came from a modest enough background-- he was almost pathologically insular, hating ever to be away from home and never even contemplating the possibility of travelling abroad. He had no interests other than food; he never read a book unless it were about cuisine. He saw no no point in going to the theatre, saying 'The theatre come to me.'" The article, which is written very much from Madame Point's perspective, then points out that his marriage in 1930 led to a total remodeling and updating of the restaurant because his new wife "said quite simply that she wouldn't go to the place while it was in such a state." It goes on the credit Madame Point with liberating his "singular originality which was to change so much of haute cuisine." If he went to Japan in 1930's, perhaps it was his wife who convinced him to go.
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Or you could just try some of the other restaurants in the area. There are some good ones.
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Last summer, we enjoyed a casual lunch at Le Bistro Latin, 18 rue de la Couronne, not far off the Cour Mirabeau. Very well-priced provencal menus for lunch and dinner. It's a small place with one room on the main level and a cozy cellar room below.
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Thanks for the review. I may give 1550 Hyde a try next time I'm in SF.
By the way, I not fanatical about chocolate, but I also believe that Chuao chocolates are some of the best I've had anywhere. My wife is fanatical, and she agrees, too.
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Was Lehr's Greenhouse in that place under freeway interchange in Mission Valley that is now one of those Japanese all-you-can-eat chains? Seems to me it might have been at one time, although I don't think I ever went there.
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Beware of the Caipirinha. That Cachaca is powerful stuff.
Day Trips Out of Paris
in France: Dining
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What kind of budget are you on for this trip? Lyon is a wonderful place to visit, but if you are on a strict budget and have only a week, I would also suggest you stay in Paris and save the $100 plus you are going to spend on the TGV. Likewise, renting a car is expensive if you are watching expenses, especially with one person paying it all.
I wouldn't use Rick Steves' books as restaurant guides, but he does have some good practical information on how to get around and on day-trips closer to Paris. You can really only scratch the surface in a week in Paris anyway. If you keep your transportation costs down, you can add the money to your food budget. Give us an idea of the places that you are considering, how much you want to spend, and what type of food and ambiance you are looking for.