hathor

Docsconz, no pressure. Proceed at your own pace, it's worth waiting for.

Sorry, I haven't had internet service for the past day or so.... Andiesenji, those pots are simply beautiful. Amazing. Most of what people are saying refers to northern Europe, yes? FG, I've also seen those same pots that you describe in French cookware stores, and nothing comparable in Italy.

Ah, a chance for me to write an ode to the persimmon! If only I had an ounce of poet in me.... Sorry for the delay in checking in, but once again my internet service needed to rest itself. Apparently when Saturdays and full moons occur at the same time, it is unreasonable to expect internet service. Ripe persimmons are supposed to turn into a puree when ripe, that is the desired consistency, it's the original pudding in a single serving container. Yes, with yogurt in the morning, it is on par with a fresh peach. A simple bowl of persimmon puree/slush served in a lovely dessert dish with a sprinkle of spice on top is divine. But, how about as a glaze for roasted fowl?? Hmmmm....could be interesting. I also think the flavor may balance well with balsamic....Weinoo, you around? What about a persimmon balsamic gelato? I'm not sure about the gnocci thing because of the high water content of the persimmon, but it's worth experimenting with because the flavor combo that StevenC suggests sounds very good. Grazie, Pontormo! A buon'idea if ever there was one! And why can't we start a fennel thread at the same time? And you know cardoons are coming soon....and porcini.....and...ok, so this might be my favorite time of year!

Nice photos, Mitch! I love the last photo in the bar, captures the whole essence of 'bar life'! I would also like to have a bowl of that tortellini in brodo right about now...it's a cold, rainy night and that would be just heaven.

Just for fun, I posed the cast iron question over in the cooking forum. Maybe we can get an international perspective. I love the idea of a collaborative thread based on seasonal ingredients. Anyone else?

Thanks for sharing with us! Sounds like a great trip...you made me really hungry...and I live in Italy!!

Over on the Tuscany cooking thread we've had a little side discussion on cast iron cookware. Here's the question: is this a North American thing, or do other parts of the world cook in cast iron? Cast iron griddles will show up in some Italian recipes, but that's about it. Old drawings show plenty of cast iron pots hanging over the fire, so did everybody throw out their pots when Teflon was invented?

Ciao Naftal! When I say generic, I mean that you will find the same dish at many, many restaurants. Anyone who has traveled as a tourist, and stayed for 2 weeks in anyone area knows what I mean when I say you feel that you've encountered some sort of government standard issue menu. In Umbria, for example you will always find pasta with porcini, pasta with truffle sauce, pasta with cream etc. In Lazio you find arrabiata, cacio e pepe etc. In Emilio Romagna you find bolognese sauce. These are very simple, broad, examples, but, you find these dishes on 99% of all the menus in that area, so to me, that makes them more or less generic. Not generic is a bad way, just generic.

Funny, but you used exactly the word that has been rolling around in my brain: generic. When does tradition become generic? And I do not have an answer to that question. Adam, can you expound a little more (oh, come on....how often do your loved ones ask you to expound a little more?? ) on what you meant by "Maybe this is where Italy fails on the fine dining scene, not generic enough?" I think you might be onto something here.... I concur that filetto con aceto balsamico would be considered traditional, and pan-regional enough to be considered generic. But. And it's a big but: this was an excellent filetto, perfectly prepared, so that is what makes it rise above the mundane. Are we being precious in immediately assuming that generic is less tasty?

Ah, Kevin, I've missed your cooking!! It all looks fabulous! The first cachi (persimmons) have shown up at the market. But, no cardoons yet. I'm with you, loving the whole transition into fall foods. (and just a weird side note: no one in my area uses/knows/ or understands cooking in cast iron...it's like I'm speaking in a foreign language! Are cast iron pots an American thing?)

There are all kinds of rules and regulations, so you'd better do the proper research in your state/local area.

Eggs?? What's the problem with eggs?? And if Studio Kitchen is really on the list, I'm coming back from Italy!

I thought the pre-salting was just to get rid of the excess water, so that you didn't wind up with lots of water in the finished dish. BTW, I don't rinse. But, I back off on salt elsewhere in the recipe.

What I would give to sit down with Fabio Tabocchi and listen to what he has to say on this subject. Docsconz, what forum are you posting the interview in? I want to be sure to read it. Here's my proscuitto/melone revelation: the tweak should be a flavor bridge, another ingredient, not a 'technique'. I've got some ideas but they need to wait until next season's melons come in. Markk, interesting points. You are so right that you have to maintain enthusiasm for a dish or it will suffer. When you go on auto-pilot, the ingredients know it and fall asleep on the plate. It's like the evolution of a relationship: enthusiastic infatuation gives way to happy love affair which evolves into comfortable marriage...oh, stop me now!

You are in Hong Kong, one of the greatest food cities in the world. Before you jump on a plane, learn everything you can in Hong Kong. Work in a few kitchens. Then think about the next move.

Thanks Karen, I'll take a look at Blackwood Apparel, for inspiration. Let's be pro-active....what are practical features of chef attire? Once we compile a list, we can forward it to anyone interested in designing chef wear and see what happens. Maybe they'll name the jacket after us....the eGullet chef jacket! A quick glance at my arms tells me that burn protection is necessary. So sleeves are required. But, I always have to roll up my sleeves, and then that runs the risk of catching on something, or something running down and into the rolled cuff. A rolled cuff also looks a little sportif and a bit messy. The jacket needs to hide or camouflage dirt/stains. So the double breasted approach is good, but not particularly flattering. I want to look professional, neat and feminine when I go out to the front of the house. I don't want to look like I've adapted my husband's jacket to fit me. I want to make a professional statement that I am a woman in the kitchen. (Now, there's a ranting manifesto, if I ever heard one! ) Pockets are nice, but not essential. Side on seam pockets, below apron tie height would be welcome. The jacket needs to be long enough to cover any chance of chef crack when I'm digging around in the bottom shelf of the refrigerator, but not so long that it hinders walking. The fabric should be breathable and washable. There are fantastic high tech fibers out there, the stuff that Patagonia and other outdoor specialists use, so surely there is something that would suit our particular needs. Anyone else? What would your chef jacket wish list include?

Brava Ling! Brava for doing all the research, and brava for doing all the cooking!

Sorry to drop out of the conversation for a few days.... Back to bread for just a second: salt free bread is referred to as 'pane normale' in my backwater neck of the woods. It is celebrated and revered for the properties it does have: a unique crumb that absorbs but does not compete or mask flavors, a unique texture that is the perfect base for fat filled, heavily salted salumi or other strongly flavored condiments. It is not better or worse than any other bread. It fills a specific niche in central Italian cuisine. It takes time to get used to it and to appreciate it. Believe me, I was in the 'better as a doorstop' camp for the first few years; now, it's the go-to bread for specific dishes. You can find all types of salted breads in central Italy, they are eaten and enjoyed, but pane normale will always have a place in central Italian cuisine. Tastes change over time. Pontormo, help me out here, as you are much more of an expert than I. But, take a look at Renaissance recipes, you would gag at the amount of sugar that shows up in dishes. Truly, truly revolting. I've tasted some historically correct Renaissance dishes prepared by Kenneth Albala and they were simply unpalatable; I was gagging on the sugar and spice overload. The point being made about the contrast between evolution and fad is excellent. It takes time for evolution to happen. Italian regional cooking is not a fad, chefs are not 'returning' to regionalism, as very, very few of them have ever left it. Tupac, we are not on a high horse, or rubbing your nose in it, as we tell of our experiences living in Italy. What happens is that as you spend time here, hopefully, there is a growth in your knowledge and appreciation of your surroundings. A case in point would be my acceptance and appreciation of that salt free bread. Its taken me years to 'get it'.

Excellent point. I'm curious, are you seeing more people move back into your village? I would say the influx of people into our village is more of the stranieri buying second homes, or the Romans/Milanese buying vacation homes. Very few of the young people seem to want to stick around. Then again not being able to drive your car into town and unload your groceries can be a deterrent...espcially if you have little kids. This change in the make up of the town is something that we often talk about, and it will affect what we serve. p.s. I'm now heading up to the restaurant to make the bread....with salt! It's unbelievable how much bread people will eat once you put salt into it! (Focaccia, ciabatta and a pugliese style, in case anyone was wondering. I just can't bring myself to spend the time and effort on salt less bread....)

Hey FFB...nice to hear from you!! It's time to change the attire, I just need to come up with what. Today's fantasy is a sort of lab coat. I was looking at my Roman chef, male partner today, and his outfit looked like prison gear. It's time for a change. And those 'naf printed pants do NOT count!!

Certainly a thought provoking discussion. Back at the restaurant, here's a real world experience (versus our intellectual discussion): Yesterday we got a beautiful case of pencil asparagus. I asked my Roman co-chef what he had in mind for the asparagus since he brought them into the kitchen. He gave me the 'you have 3 heads' look, and said you boil them in water. I didn't have time to go into the finer points of my love for asparagus and he proceeded to boil the shit out of those poor little aspargus, their heads turning into a soggy mass. Now, my experience in Italy is that 99% of Italians cook all vegetables into a pile of mush and when I've tried more 'al dente' vegetables, the tourists eat them, and the Italians don't. Italians want their vegetables to be pre-chewed. Which is my long winded way of saying, there IS a defect in the cuisine. So, now what? Continue to serve traditional mushy vegetables? Or just quit my whining, and save some of the crunchy, fresh tasting stuff for myself? Naftal, I agree with you in spirit, but after you've had essentially the same menu put in front of you 10 times at 10 different restaurants, wouldn't want to branch out a little? Sometimes I've felt as if the Umbria Tourist Board mandated the menus! There are no simple answers, and I'll continue to look for balance.

Interesting points, and something that I've been puzzling about. I wear make up in the kitchen because I'm a woman of a certain age and I would scare people if I didn't do a little something to make myself look decent. I'm not talking about masacare melting down my face....mascara would be truly scary! I don't know about looking sexy per se, but I don't see anything inappropriate about looking like a woman in the kitchen. I was thinking about it yesterday, and the effect that the Williams sisters choice of apparel had on the tennis industry. They rejected the white shorts/white polo shirt look and went all out fem. They revolutionized tennis wear. My 'problem' with traditional chef attire is that it is designed for men and marginally adapted for women. Sugarseattle, I was thinking the same thing. I've got friends in the fashion business too. Look at wait staff uniforms, some of the top designers have designed for restaurants. What about the back of the house? I do emerge from the kitchen from time to time and I want to look professional but still feminine.

Are there any local health or restaurant code requirements that you should be aware of? I only ask because in our kitchen we are required to keep all surfaces white. We wanted to paint a broad red stripe on a part of the wall that is 30 feet above our heads and we can't do it.

I have to agree with what others have said about Italian food being heavy. Pastas are lightly sauced, meats are barely sauced. But I have to disagree completely with this statement: "Perhaps this is in part because traditional, local, regional cuisine is a major marketing proposition for Italian tourism." People here are genuinely, truly passionate about their local food and recipes. They are unaware of current market trends regarding eating locally, eating traditionally, eating seasonal foods. This is just the way that they eat. Period. One of the greatest challenges we face at the restaurant is that locals don't eat out that much. A very sweet older lady friend in town, explained to me that she was very supportive of the restaurant but wouldn't be coming to eat there because, "we don't have the habit to eat out." She then proceeded to tell me how she was making some trout for dinner. The point being that many Italians eat out infrequently, so the assumption that the popularity of 'traditional dishes' is the result of clever marketing, just isn't so. ← The influence of Slow Food, an international organization started and based in Italy can not be discounted when considering the origins of "current market trends." This organization came into existence primarily because of growing concerns of the erosion of what you just described within Italy. ← Good point, but, most of my neighbors have never heard of Slow Food. Which makes me now wonder, is the appeal of Slow Food more on the international level than the national level. I have no idea, I'm just asking. I'm being a little precious when I say that my local friends have never heard of Slow Food, some of them have heard of it, but it means little or nothing to them. Maybe because the name is English? Boh. Divina, if you are still following this conversation, what about your friends? You are certainly in a more sophisticated area than I am.