Holly Moore

I couldn't figure out how to speak to that bit of ambience tactfully. But it was definitely a topic of conversation at our table. Totally cool.

While Roy is chasing dogies across the sky, his namesake restaurant and the Double R Bar Burger are still riding the range on earth, though not in the Philadelphia/NY area.

I'm liking Pad Thai alot of late. On Second, just below South. Was there last Saturday night and the place was just about empty. Which is too bad. Excellent kitchen. They're posted for a license, but BYO for now. Should fit your budget, though maybe not with BOTH apps and desserts.

Roy Roger's Double R Bar Burger - Quarter Pound Burger, sliced ham and cheese. Some sort of special sauce too, I think. It's been a while. Even longer - Arby's Original Roast Beef Sandwich - back in the mid 60's. I opened/managed Arby's first franchise operation in Cleveland. We took top rounds - poked them with thermopins so they would cook faster, covered them with suet and roasted to a bloody rare/medium rare. Sliced thin, sprinkled with a mixture of salt and white pepper, and piled high on a buttered, caramelized sesame seed bun. 69 cents each. We had lines out the door and around the building. That all changed in 1970 or so when Arby's switched to a chopped, pressed roast held together with a binding compound. Salty, suspicious texture and and well done. Yech. I haven't been back to an Arby's since. I'm surprised so many people think it's good. Guess they've changed. But I'm not going back until they start roasting fresh beef.

If I'm not mistaken the open market along quai on the Presqu'ile across from Vieux Lyon can be found every morning except Monday. I think it's the quai St. Antoine. Very possibly the case. Much of what I learned was blurred in translation.

Here are some pics from my site: Lyon Farmer's Market

There is a wonderful Sunday farmer's market that runs for four blocks, along the Rhone.

If you're interested in a meal unique to Atlanta, consider Mary Mac's Tea Room. Takes you back to the gracious South before the invasion of yupscale diners.

Scary, very scary. What's the word on Tom Morales? Will he get it, or will he turn it into a tourist trap?

I was reacting to that specific article by Kay and more generally about the standard food scene wrap-ups that typically focus on the new bright and shiny bangles. It's good Kay also writes of the old time traditional places. But who needs Kay, when I've got a great resource like pogophiles

Tim - I gather you're relatively new to Philadelphia. You may not have yet discovered North 5th Street, Philadelphia's "Barrio." Some places to try - La Tierra Columbiana - The chef is Cuban, the owner Columbian. Detente - half the menu is Columbian, half Cuban. Freddy and Tony's - Puerto Rican. Very good and the easiest for someone who doesn't speak Spanish. Be sure to order the mofongo. El Bohio - You could just as well be in a small town in Puerto Rico. As authentic as it gets. There's also a very good place at 3rd and Girard (or so) whose name I forget. Cousin's Supermarket is a great source of ingredients. There's a great butcher shop across 5th and halfway up the block from El Bohio. I go there for the octopus salad and the morcilla (blood sausage). They'll also roast a whole pig, Puerto Rican style. And plenty of other adventurous, culinary exploring along North 5th. All that said, I haven't made it to Tropico, but will be doing so in the very near future. Sounds great.

Greetings Jim Let me add my welcome to eGullet. Offering laid-off employees employment is anything but opportunistic. Sounds like neat things are going on at Moshulu, which is great. For all too long that beautiful setting and ideal location was going to waste.

I bought a bunch of Miel's chocolate for staff and other present-worthy friends. Somehow I counted wrong and there was one box left over. Appearance-wise they are spectacular. Taste-wise they are great, though I think I slightly prefer the ones the Belgian Chocolate House used to sell. Price-wise, relatively inexpensive at $36 a pound. Gift-wise, extremely well received. Best chocolates I've ever had were from a refrigerated case at Harrod's in London, back in the 70's. They were from Belgium, had dairy based centers, and had to be refrigerated. I've searched for them since, including return trips to Harrod's and walking the streets of Brussels, but to no avail.

Basic disagreement here as I rate the Loveless Cafe as one of the two greatest breakfast places in the South, the second being Skinheads in Paduccah KY. As I have not yet met my goal of eating every breakfast in the South, there may be better ones. But that's a different thread. What I was trying to demonstrate in my initial post is that all too often food writers when doing their summaries about a city, leave out the stalwarts, the traditional places that are an important part of a city's dining tradition - not only by surviving for decades, but for maintaining their quality and style - for not giving up or selling out. That is why I stressed I am writing as an occasional visitor. Sure, the glitter of the new, the diversity of the ethnic are also important to the dining scene. I understand that a part of the story is the growth of Nashville cuisine and such growth is important to those who live there, as it is in any city. But, quite frankly, I can probably do better here in Philadelphia with the kind of restaurants that have excited Ms. West this year. What I can not get in Philadelphia, or most anywhere else, is a breakast such as is served by the Loveless Cafe or a burger as good as Fat Mo's. I can't take an hour's drive out of Philadelphia and find a Sunday fried chicken dinner ever closely comparable to that served at the Beacon Tea Room, which I should have mentioned in my earlier post on this thread. These are places that make Nashville unique. These are places (Loveless, Beacon and Fat Mo's) that are among the best in the country at what they do. And these are the places along with Rotier's (sorry, I just really liked Rotier's) that have to be included when someone writes about the Nashville dining scene. Any city's "dining scene" wants to be perceived by the dining-out locals the same way as the cliche newly rich lottery winner wants to be seen by new friends at the country club. Embarrassed by their roots, and hoping people won't see past the mansion and their other newly acquired trappings to their former double wide trailer and the worn overalls on the hook in the closet. But it is those roots that make one city's dining scene different from another's. Without them, cities would be just like interchanges along the Interstate. Same ol', same ol'.

Yeah, it's sounding like something I shouldn't attempt with vodka. What kind of soup most resembles a hot virgin bloody mary besides, well, hot bloody mary soup? I mean, is there something really similar that for some reason I can't think of. There ought to be, give or take a few spices/ingredients. Probably a hot version of gaspacho with some optional added heat. Wonder if one could simply heat up a can of bloody mary mix?

I totally agree. I've been buying Pomi in a box at Trader Joe's for quite a while. I do like the Muir Glen Fire-Roasted Tomatoes very much in spicy sausage pasta dishes. So I went to my local Trader Joe's and asked for tomatoes in a box. The ever-so-helpful guy in the tropical shirt took me to the produce section, and pointed me to the fresh tomatoes in a cellophane wrapped tray. Then we went to the tomato section and the only tomato products there were a couple of facings of canned tomatoes - with and without salt as I recall.

I can tell you how not to do it. Back in my restaurateuring days I thought a bloody mary soup would be a cool brunch special. Probably would have been if it tasted good. We basically did a hot version of our bloody mary mix which was fine. But when we added the vodka at serving time the whole thing went south. Don't know why, but it did. We did not serve it.

Latte Grande, Three Shots, Skim Milk, No Foam here. Or in Starbucks-Speak, Triple Grande, No Fat, No Foam Latte. I've found that three shots in a medium cup is just the right combo for me, though it is far righter if I'm at a local Philadelphia shop that uses La Columbe espresso.

1. Score points with my boss by bringing the number in at $2.45 a day. 2. Keep at $2.55 until just before the next general election when the legislature, with great public aclaim, lowers it to $2.45 a day. 3. Keep being billed at $2.55 a day, but feed the inmates at $2.45 a day, and discuss much needed home renovations with my suppliers.

Writing as an occasional visitor as opposed to a Nashvillian, I am not all that excited about the ethnic places. Where are the Loveless Cafe, the Pancake Pantry, Fat Mo's, Rotiers? These are the restaurants unique to Nashville; the restaurants that make Nashville's food scene special.

Stark is but one prison within the Florida DOC. There are prisons located about the state. Lot's of agriculture happening in Florida. Seems like some of the prisons would be in favorable areas for planting crops. Spread it around and share. In the urban prisons, a bakery, like Rikers. Run trucks between facilities. As to priority, I'm betting that the priority of Govenor Bush and the legislature is to cut costs. And what's a more politically popular place to start than the prison system? Short term that's bringing a prisoner from 2700 calories a day to 2500. Maybe eliminating Weekend breakfasts. But long term it is getting the prisons to be self sufficient. To raise their own livestock (Starke sounds like just the place for that) and to grow their own crops. Free labor and no layers of middle men grabbing their slice of the food budget.

Most state deparments of correction should be able to farm most of their needs and prepare and share it between facilities. At Angola all prisoners are required to work. They start of in the fields, farming. They earn their keep. It's amazing that most facilities are not like Angola. Every state prison system should be self sustaining, at least in terms of food. The rural prisons can grow and raise food for the entire state system. But more often than not, that isn't the case. Rather than building a work ethic and some self respect in the inmates by letting them put in a good day's work, the work opportunities are few and the waiting lists long. And the food, rather than being fresh off the farm is frozen, canned and dried. And costly. For security and capital cost reasons, many state governments aren't willing to make the investment to make their correctional system self sustaining. There are also political reasons. A lot of people make a lot of money selling food to prisons. And there is the political position that forcing inmates to work is akin to slavery and the gulags. -- I have no problem with "prison loaf" - those tasteless loaves of pureed-together food served as part of isolation/punishment. Also served to inmates who throw their food. They meet nutritional requirements. It's behavior modificaion. In a like manner prisons could use food as an incentive, just like visits and access to television. As an inmate earns his way to lower levels of security, the food gets better. But that's not going to happen when politicians score points by cutting prison budgets. -- One of the problems with prison food service is that many facilities are locked down twenty three hours a day. Meals are brought to the inmates in their cells. That takes time. Often an hour or more from when it was dished out. Even when the container is insulated, good food loses much of its appeal, when it's served luke-warm to cool. -- All that said, in the course of one of my businesses I've toured a number of jails and prisons. What I've seen served doesn't look all that bad. Brought back memories of the high school cafeteria.

And at No. 4 HollyEats doesn't even show. That sucks.

I'm always able to rationalize my way around "not too expensively." And close to the hotel isn't all that expensive and a ride to and fro in a London Taxi is part of the tourist experience. I had a great dinner on my own at London's oldest restaurant Rules. Finished off the Prime Rib with Yorkshire Pudding for two, earning a Jeevesian "Well done, sir" from my tuxedoed waiter. Fine, traditional British dining.

I went to Yanni (? sp too) a couple of times for morning coffee and croissant. Then I thought I recognized the croissants and asked. They don't bake them themselves. That was a disappointment.