Varmint

I discussed the closet above. As far as the guest cook L, please recognize that those counters are surrounded by big sheets of glass just above the counter level. They're beautiful windows that will not be touched. That's why the ovens can't go there. As far as the closet is concerned, I'm with ya, but it ain't gonna happen yet. Patience, Miss Rachel, patience.

To get rid of the closet really requires some structural changes, as a load bearing wall separates the closet and the ovens. A steel "I"-beam runs down the length of the eating counter, which then ties into another "I"-beam just beyond the end of the eating counter. Consequently, we can't really get rid of the closet at this time (that, and the issue of not having another closet available). What's nice about this arrangement is that it still works in the master plan. When we close off the door near the driveway and put in a new door in the utility room, we'll likely move some external walls as well, making the room much more of a standard rectangle rather than the goal posts of its current configuration. We'll then be able to move out eating bars, closets and other items. That bar will be removed, moved, or pared back at some point in the future. Just not right now. As far as the cooktop is concerned, that location has worked for years, in spite of its cramped nature. Thirty inches is a lot more than the current 20!!! I'm sure we're already maxed out on the budget. There are a lot of things I'd like to do, but this is something that is reasonably affordable. I got a quick estimate for midlevel cabinets from one source: about $4500 without countertops. We'll be going with tile countertops for the most part, adding another chunk of expense. I'm staying with the "he-man" appliances -- actually, the only appliances that are considered "professional level" will be the cooktop and the hood. I'm not sacrificing performance on either of those items. We're keeping our dishwasher and microwave. But our spec list is quite extensive -- a lot of labor will be involved. I'll post the new spec list later. In the end, with the configuration of our space and the traffic flow, it ain't gonna get much better than this. I'm liking what I see here. It will work. It'll open up the kitchen, allowing more people to be in it comfortably. It allows more people to work in the kitchen. Plus, it will be brighter. Now, can someone help me out with replacement lighting?

Wine is kept in the cellar, of course. We keep the wine that we drink quickly in the pantry. Having the ice maker and wine fridge in this location is perfect for us, as this counter will not be the primary prep area. The main prep area will be near the driveway, where we'll be installing a simple prep sink with its own disposal.

The dishes and plates need to go into a cabinet near the dishwasher, but not immediately over the dishwasher, IMO. With the dishwasher door open, it would be very hard to access anything above the bottom shelf of that cabinet. You would have to unload onto the counter, then close the dishwasher to put things away. They way I have it arranged in my kitchen is the dishwasher to the right of the sink and the dish cabinets to the left of the sink. ~~~ If you shorten the depth of the peninsula to the edge of the wall (sink side) then you'll get a few more inches standing room in the L shape "guest cook" area. This would also make the template much simpler, lessening the chance of error. ~~~ Since you have plenty of countertop opposite the fridge for putting down grocery bags, you don't need that little bit of countertop to its left. Instead, consider a bookcase. You could have it facing the doorway rather than the sink since you don't need a deep bookcase. It looks like that is about 14 -16 inches there, perfect for a bookcase. ~~~ The SubZero freezer doesn't make ice? You're right about the dishwasher, Rachel. I'm trying to think of a configuration that makes sense, but it's not leaping out at me. One way to do it would be to slide the window down toward the utility room, and slide the sink and dishwasher a bit to keep the sink under the window. We don't want the window to be centered against that wall for a number of reasons. However, we could keep the primary dish cupboard at the end of the wall nearest the peninsula. The bookshelf idea is fantastic. The only downside of that is the phone is there. I'm thinking of a bookshelf as well as a little phone/desk area to take messages. It'll be about 15" deep. Good idea. Yeah, I could narrow the peninsula back again, but I sort of like the continuity with the wall. I need to think about that one. As far as the SubZero is concerned, it's old. Very old. Thus, no icemaker. Our freestanding one will suffice.

I did say that moving the SubZeros was out of the question. But, of course, I never considered a move of 3 feet!!! To be honest with you, I was a bit blinded by their location and enormity and just didn't want to deal with it. The next step is to meet with the contractor/cabinet maker again. I'm now talking about a shitload of cabinets, which I originally hadn't intended to do. I'm looking at about 33 linear feet of base cabinetry and about 5 linear feet of upper cabinets. How much is that gonna cost me??? The other thing I like about this design is that it makes complete sense when I close off the current doorway and put in a new one into the utility room. Unloading groceries becomes easier, traffic won't be flowing through the work area as much. It's so much better!!!!

Tee hee hee. I have the plan. The master plan. I just finished with the kitchen designer/architect, and he praised "me" for "my" design. I informed him how this was a collaborative project. He had one suggestion that made complete sense and makes this project a "go." I'm so excited with this that I put all countertop space in red. Take a look: DW = Dishwasher WR = Wine Refrigerator IM = Ice maker By moving the SubZeros to the opposite wall (which will cost nothing), we now have a long area of counter space plus a way to create a window. The window goes into the residing project, not the kitchen's. We have tons of wall space for upper cabinets, room for a larger sink (i.e., integrated drainage area), and more!!! I also took off a corner from the bar area to make that passage area 30 inches. People want to stand in that area, so this makes sense. God, I love this design, and I'm sure someone can still tweak it a bit, but this is a winner as far as I'm concerned. I'm a "bit" concerned about the budget, but we can go with shelving instead of cabinets in some instances. Why not? Comments?

Conflict? Nah. We can do that. People need to decide what dish to do. We can go from there. And get your folks to confirm!!!!

I will very likely use granite in my renovation, but it'll be large-ish granite tiles and a couple of solid pieces that a friend will pull from the scrap heap!

There are costs associated with installing appliances - moving stuff around - hiring contractors - pulling permits - etc. So far you're still on paper. Why don't you go to a place like Home Depot or Lowe's - and have them work up some proposals on cabinets and flooring? Don't think they charge anything for it. Worst you can do is review the options and say "no". Robyn Funny you brought this up, Robyn, as I spent a couple of hours at Home Depot yesterday! Everything is still in the paper stage, but I'm starting to get a better idea of the costs. We've got some good ideas, and everyone's participation here has been invaluable. I'm going to run this by my interior designer sister-in-law, my architect father-in-law, and my cook mother-in-law in half an hour to get their take on it all. Yeah, my father-in-law created this monstrosity 30 years ago, but he did learn from his mistakes!

Dishes to make: Beef Cheek Ravioli Tagliatelle with truffle and porcini (Weka's in charge) Some octopus or calamari pasta -- semi-piquant One other dish. We could do a dried pasta, such as a penne or rigatoni. Or we could go bonkers with a lobster pasta. Let's do a tortellini in brodo, too, which might make it 5 dishes. It's just so classic, and a good opener with the cold. We should get one of our NY friends to send us some kick ass salumi. I suspect we'll end up with a few more than 12. Didn't you say you might bring some folks, phlawless? Remember, we'll likely do this at my in-laws, which can seat 20.

Storage? First, we have a huge pantry that isn't really shown here -- it's through the doorway on the bottom left. The refrigerator will always be far away, but I can live with that. The dishes and plates will go into a cabinet that sits above the dishwasher. No, we're not going with two dishwashers. I love it when 2 exist, but we can't do that at this time. The end of the peninsula and the eating bar are two places to put hot stuff. Everything in this plan is within easy reach. It's a very user-friendly set up -- much more so than the current arrangement, I can assure you of that. Plus, this makes it much easier for more people to cook in the kitchen at the same time, which, although not currently impossible, makes for a very "friendly" and "intimate" environment.

We'll have a disposal, so that probably won't be necessary. If we composted, that would be a different issue altogether.

Here's a suggestion that may make no sense whatsoever, but here goes: I made the peninsula more of a box to maximize cabinet/drawer space. I slid down the sink so half of it extends into the peninsula. This creates some openness. It also allows there to be more wall for upper cabinets. With the sink moved down, I widened the peninsula a bit to allow for some space beyond the sink. Consequently, the space between the window and the peninsula is a bit smaller, but still workable space for an individual. Moving the sink to this location may not make a bit of sense, but I thought I'd throw it out for discussion.

As much as I like the idea of a window, I don't think that we want the sink so close to the wall to the left. Although it may be possible -- I just don't know. The closet's not going to be touched this time around. I see it being eliminated altogether at some point in the future, but if we're going to move it, we might as well take it out and put a little counter area there. But not this time.

Chicken and dumplings may very well be my all time Sunday dinner favorite, paticularly when it's cold. Yum.

That's the major point, here, fifi. This renovation is all about moving things around to make them functional. This kitchen will not look all that nice when it's done: cheap painted cabinets, patchwork floor. But the appliances will rock, the layout will be great (or substantially better than the status quo), and it will be consistent with some long term plans. I won't need to swap out appliances. I will need to redo floors. I can change the cabinets if I ever want to. With the exception of the hardware, the current cabinets have never really been a problem. Funny thing -- when I envisioned my "dream" kitchen, the thought of cabinets and countertops never came into play. It's all about space and funtion. Let the fun begin!!!!

I may have a source of cheap (or free) granite that I can use for work surfaces (ie, baking areas). The place where the compactor and grill is will be the likeliest location for a large single piece of granite. I'll have my kitchen-aid mixer stowed away there with a lift. I'd really like to do almost an inlay type of arrangement, and then fabricate a wood edge to the counter, much like we currently have.

With the exception of my two marble slabs, all my counters are currently tile. The grout hasn't been that big of a problem, but I love the tile because I can put a red hot cast iron skillet on it. Where are some good on-line sources of thin granite (just so I can look)?

That distance doesn't bother me all that much -- I'm currently dealing with a distance problem already -- through a much more circuitous route at that. I won't be able to move the fridge, so I'm probably stuck with that for now. If I find a good deal on a range instead of a cooktop, I may put the dishwasher in the lower space where the wall ovens go and just stick in a second wall oven above. That gives me a bit more space for cabinets and drawers around the sink. I'm thinking of a tile countertop again. My sister-in-law can do that for me, and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than any solid stone. The grouting can be a pain, but we currently have to deal with it, and we haven't complained. The cost is just so damned reasonable!!!!

Here's the fix with Nick's suggestion. Plus, I put in the prep sink.

That's a good nit to pick. We could use another 4-6 inches there, if we can do it. Good catch, now that we don't need to worry about a big sink and dishwasher being over there.

After walking around the kitchen, "tearing down walls", and making all sorts of other changes, it looks as if Dave's "Idea 2" is going to be the winner, with the addition of Al Dente's peninsula. Here's the idea: I realized that I truly didn't want to be cooking up against a wall. I like to converse with my friends sitting at the bar while I cook. Moreover, I just didn't like the sink being so far away from the counter. Finally, I was starting to place too much kitchen function in the hall leading to the laundry room. Because we ultimately plan to put the entrance from the driveway in the laundry room, it wasn't a great plan. With the peninsula, we can put a sink, the dishwasher, and a pull-out trash cupboard. We're getting rid of the compactor. We'll have a ton of new cabinets for storage, not to mention shallow cabinets above the sink area. Along the windows by the driveway will be deeper, more functional cabinets. These will give us tons of additional storage, with functional counter space, too. I'm seriously thinking of putting in a smallish prep sink in that area, just for crowds! When we close off the current driveway entrance, this arrangement will make a ton of sense. By the way, the walking distance from the cooktop to the sink in this configuration is about 8 feet -- that's 2-1/2 of my steps. If I put in a prep sink, then that distance will be less than 6 feet. When it's all said and done, I'll need about 25 linear feet of lower cabinets and 6 linear feet of upper cabinets. We'll put the microwave above the new wall ovens. This plan works for the present and the future.

If I find something that I like that's within my budget, we WILL start before then. Thanks a ton for the offer, Nick. That's kind of you. I'm playing around with all sorts of configurations right now. I may never come up with the perfect solution!!!!

The front door is where you thought it is, but because of the design of that room, there's no way we could do that or want to do that. I'd take pictures, but my wife has the camera and she's in Charleston. Because this is a temporary fix (although, it's quickly becoming more of a permanent solution!!!), we're not going to mess with the utility room at this point. Good suggestions, though!!!

The distance between the Sub-Zeros and the wet bar counter is 3' 6" (42").