Varmint

Nick- The distance between the wall at the wet bar (the one that divides the kitchen from "5") and the wall below that (that separates the kitchen from the outside) is 12 feet. The distance from the doorway to "7" and the wall behind the current cooktop is 36 feet.

I'll look into that. Somewhere along that wall, it's load bearing, but the fact that it contains all the circuitry implies there's some open space.

One thing I like about my current configuration is how close the sink and the cooktop are. I hadn't realized how important that is, and with a large enough prep sink in the wet bar area, I may be OK. But having them adjacent to each other is wonderful. Just thought I'd share that with you, as it dawned on me this morning.

That's absolutely what I want to happen, so keep the ideas coming. Challenge me, as I want to think through different possibilities. Dave's ideas were novel to me, and although I initially dismissed them, I now see how practical they are. As far as the eating counter is concerned, I'm very unlikely to back down. It's just that with the space we have, removing the bar and putting in a kitchen table eliminates a major chunk of cabinet space, too, which we can't afford. Plus, we're very, very partial to the eating counter area -- it actually works very well in our kitchen right now and it does create some separation between the kitchen and living rooms, which we want.

This might be of some assistance -- plans of the rooms and spaces adjacent to the kitchen: 1 -- Bedroom 2 -- Bath 3 -- Pantry 4 -- Living Room area 5 -- Dining Room area (Living/Dining room is one big, combined room) 6 -- Family Room 7 -- Utility Room Things to note: Living and dining room area can not be messed with at this time. They're filled with custom made cabinetry (very beautiful stuff, at that). The Family room cannot be touched, either. The wet bar is pretty important now, in that I may make this more of a "prep" area, adding a slightly larger sink with a disposal. The doorway entrance beween the kitchen and pantry may be closed at some point in the future, but we're not doing anything that drastic right now. We need that closet. Yes, it'd be ideal to remove it and open up that area, but we're not going that far this go-around.

First, the budget. Total budget is about $18,000. Appliances make up about $8K of that figure. This is why any major renovation is out of the question. Dave the Cook probably knows this kitchen as well as anyone. Gas burners: sealed gas burners are of the type that their bases are sealed to the plate to which they're attached. This makes them much easier to clean than "open" burners, where spillovers fall through the plate to some area beneath. Yes, easy clean up is extremely important to us. We need to keep the eating counter. It's an essential prep area, sitting spot, and divider between the kitchen and the living room. Plus, I just like it!! We have a dining room on the other side of the wall where the wet bar is.

Holly, try the See Wee Restaurant, just north of Mt. Pleasant. Here's a link. If I was able to eat oysters, I'd find a way to join you, as our best friends live in Mt. Pleasant. Please report back!

Take a look at this auction for something silly. Ain't no way this is legit.

Fortunately, that problem is mostly eliminated in the configuration that makes the most sense now: There is the entryway problem, but that may be unavoidable. Plenty of clearance in the other directions.

Thanks for the review, Bruce. Acme is a restaurant that I certainly wish were in my neighborhood, but it's not that far away. But why the heck didn't you call me, as I'm less than 30 minutes away?!?!

As a matter of fact, I think I would remove that extension to the L'il Varmint's bar. That opens up the kitchen so much more, and I could use Al's peninsula.

OK, here's Dave's idea, with Al's modifications, containing some dimensions regarding passage space: If you can't read the numbers, in this configuration, the narrowest passage is 30 inches. And with the peninsula, I don't know if I need that extension of the L'il Varmint's bar, as I can set the hot stuff behind me. God, that's so much better! The downside of this plan is that we're having to build a shitload of cabinets!! I need to get an estimate of this arrangement, but it could very easily be done. I like it. I really really like it!

This is fun. One of the things about Dave's Idea #1 is that we could truly create a prep area around the current bar sink. We'd have to get a slightly larger sink with a disposal there. I really like Idea #1, with one caveat: realize that the range area would be a major traffic flow region. I guess this applies to the sink as well. Do we want that many people running through that area on their way to the laundry room or dining room? I could live with it. I like Al Dente's peninsula idea. I've also solved the dishes concern: We can close off the one window that currently is above the compactor and make that into a small cabinet for dishes. OK, where am I going to keep my Kitchen-Aid mixer? In the peninsula??

There are three major problems with the current kitchen, one of which can be easily solved: (1) the marble slab, (2) the stupidity of the cooktop/cupboard scenario, and (3) the sink location. I discuss each of these issues below. (1) Although I love the functionality (is that really a word?) of the marble slab and the amount of workspace it creates, it is entirely too large and is one of the major sources of frustration. Replacing it with a smaller countertop (36 inches wide and 30 inches deep will work, and putting a 15 inch deep upper cabinet will be necessary. (2) The cooktop must be replaced, and an appropriate hood must be added. Downdrafts are not an option, particularly if I’m going to have a commercial cooktop producing lots of smoke. No matter how I evaluate the current arrangement and any “long-term” solution, I still think that keeping the cooktop in the same general location makes the most sense. (3) The sink’s location adds to the maze effect. Because of the sink (and the other cabinetry attached to it, much of the kitchen becomes a hallway. That’s lost space. One option that I discussed initially was to swap the current locations of the sink and cooktops, remove some of the cabinets where the current cooktop is, and install an island hood. The concern here is that I really don’t anticipate using an island arrangement forever, and cutting holes in the roof is something I don’t want to do twice. I could be wrong. Moreover, are island hoods very functional? I understand they’re not nearly as good as wall mounted arrangements (but then, could they possibly be worse than the current arrangement????). As far as long term plans are concerned, I’m still torn somewhat. Part of me wants the kitchen to be in the front room, so my concern is to minimize what I’m doing now and have the appliances available for the new kitchen. The solution there would be to swap the sink and cooktop, install a hood, and fix the marble slab area. That makes sense, and the “vector” issue is not problematic. I’ll post more later, as I just saw Dave’s two suggestions.

Gus Burgers are quite good (from what I can recall! ).

When there's a group of people at a table, generally there is one person who appears to be more of a take charge type -- the wine list usually ends up in front of him/her. With a couple, why wouldn't the sommelier just ask who would like to peruse the list?

The lagging economy hits the restaurant industry hard, even in a state with substantial growth such as North Carolina: Click here for the article What I find interesting in the article is that the restaurateurs are blaming not only the economy, but also the Atkins Diet, the Mad Cow scare, and the influx of chain restaurants for their woes. They forgot to mention the voodoo hex their arch-enemy put on them.

I think that I was whining about the cost of dual fuel ranges, and someone pointed out Viking makes an all gas range with a self cleaning oven. Of course, that wasn't much less expensive than the comparable dual fuel! Ultimately (or rather, at least, currently), it appears that the most prudent route is to go with a gas rangetop with two electric wall ovens. By the way, I've learned a lot about cooking appliance terminology during this process. Cooktop, rangetop, oven, radiant, convection, sealed burner, open burner, dual fuel, BTUs, simmer level, continuous grates. That's just for starters!

The only time that a sinfully greasy burger topped with a fried egg sounds like a good idea for most people is late at night.

Yeah, when a thread is as long as this, it gets hard t follow. As far as the oven and cooking surfaces are concerned, this is what I want: I want a high-powered 6 burner gas cooktop. I have always wanted electric ovens for their performance and convection possibilities. I might consider a gas oven, but only if it's self cleaning. Dual fuel ovens are expensive, but not necessarily prohibitively so. But, since I want 2 ovens, I recognized it would make more sense economically to get a good gas rangetop unit and 2 electric wall units. I hope that explains things. I'm still waiting for Dave the Cook to come up the the ultimate plan, as he knows my kitchen better than Mrs. Varmint!

Right now, I'm a frustrated lawyer. I'm not even sure if my plans will work, as the dishwasher will barely fit in where the compactor is. That makes that corner area of the cupboard useless. I don't know if there'll be room for a trash drawer.

I demand a self cleaning oven. It need not be gas.

Nick, I currently do about 80-90 percent of my chopping at the bar, so that won't change. I'll actually have more usable space around the rangetop than I currently have due to the awkward configuration of the cabinets. I've been staring at an emptied out floor plan with cut-out ranges and counters and sinks, and the plan above is as good as I can get right now.

First, we wouldn't move, believe it or not. The neighborhood is ideal, we have a tennis court that allows us to host a pig pickin' every few years or so, the schools are great, and it's a 4 minute commute to work. But, I like the idea of a range, but I don't have room for anything but a 36 inch. If I put in a 48 inch range with double ovens where the marble slab is, I'd have no work area surrounding it (OK, I'd have a total of 15 inches, which actually might be enough. I still would need to find a place for the dishwasher, sink, and come up with lots of cabinet space.

It's all a matter of incremental expansion without undergoing a proper gutting.