robyn

You think jeffj really sold out his rating on the Varsity for a paper hat?? Migawd, what is this world coming to? maybe the Ritz Carleton needs to rethink their meals and try a "gimmick" ... The Ritz Carlton does have a "gimmick" - a dessert trolley like ADNY. Of course - it might not be enough of an inducement for someone who wants a paper hat . Robyn

Sometimes - don't you wish they'd serve the meal backwards - so you could eat all of the terrific desserts before you got full? By the way - I really like madeleines too . Robyn

I don't know how you do that. It's as silly as trying to compare your meal at Per Se with a hot dog from a street vendor in New York. Or a meal at ADNY with a meal at a dim sum place in Chinatown. Would you ever try to do that? My rule when it comes to fine dining world wide is that price or any concept of value simply isn't an issue. You grade the food - that's it. It would be impossible to do things differently simply because costs in major cities vary a lot (e.g., our meals in London were probably 30-40% more expensive than similar meals in New York - should I downgrade all our meals in London because of that?) - and the costs of ingredients in high end restaurants can affect the price of a meal rather markedly (you want truffles and caviar and foie gras and lobster and vintage wine in the restaurant you'll pay X - you want the local pork loin with the local wine in the same restaurant - you'll pay a lot less). When a person attempts to review food - I think he or she has to compare apples with apples. Robyn

The last menu I had at the Dining Room was 8 courses - but that included an amuse and a sorbet. Basically - the courses were amuse, starter, soup, fish (with pasta), fish (with meat), cheese, sorbet and dessert (and then amuse dessert trolley). The menu was a crustaceean menu which was why the fish and meat courses were basically fish courses. All in all - I'd say it had more of the structure of a classic extended French menu than a tasting menu. And - because of the lightness of the main ingredients - there really wasn't a problem eating everything. You're correct that the wine pours were more than generous . Robyn

Then it is all the more reason for him to serve his food this way. Actually your point is well taken. If I was able to frequent TFL or Per Se, I would be much more interested in more in depth explorations of the cuisine. However, not being able to do so, I was content with sampling many different things. I'm not sure if I can do it justice - but I think the philosophy of Keller and the FL is that once you've had a bite or two of something - and your taste buds have been exciited - eating more of the same thing is kind of boring. So you're on to the next course in the quest for constant titillation. I don't think I agree with this philosophy - after all - I can eat licorice Jelly Bellies (one of my favorites) all night - but I suppose reasonable people can have opposing points of view. Robyn

I don't eat world class sushi/other Japanese bar type food that often - but - when I do - the sushi bar is usually the only way to go. I thought the review was on point in that it informed potential diners who've never eaten world class food of this kind (which probably covers a lot of people who live in New York) that they may have a markedly different experience if they sit at a table as opposed to the bar. Perhaps my only criticism of the review is I don't know how much Ms. Hesser knows about world class food of this type - and I wondered how the food compared to other world class restaurants in North America (basically on the west coast and in Hawaii). Was this simply terrific for New York - or was it terrific in a broader sense? Robyn

I would write email to fromages.com - let them know what's going on (it's not a big impersonal operation). And let us know what happens. Robyn

Just two comments on your post. When I eat meat - I like bones (and I sometimes gnaw on them in inelegant ways ). Can't recall ever seeing a piece of meat with proper bones served on a tasting menu. As for the age thing in terms of eating multi-course menus - I'm not sure it's as much a matter of age/number of courses as opposed to the richness of the courses (although age and size certainly enters into it to a certain degree - as a 5 foot tall 56 year old woman - I'll never be able to eat as much as a 6 foot tall 17 year old young man - although I could perhaps drink him under the table ). One of the best/worst meals my husband and I ever ate was in France when we were about 30. It wasn't that there was too much food - it's that it was all just too too rich (much too much in the way of butter/cream sauces). We both got sick as dogs after. I find that I can work my way through more courses when they're made with a lighter hand (and they usually are these days). Also - if I know there's something glorious at the end of the rainbow (i.e., great dessert chef) - I'll save some room in anticipation. Robyn

I don't know how to cook sweetbreads. I leave it to the experts. So I don't know if there's any pre-preparation (like some par boiling). At the end though - these were sauteed - and mixed into a very light kind of stew. With veggies - like really terrific carrots (probably steamed or boiled) - and beans. You're right that they're small (not microscopic - perhaps 1-2 inches - but very unlike the 1 very large sweetbread - perhaps 4 inches in length - I had at Menu - which was lightly fried). It was a terrific meal. I can't tell you how much we enjoyed almost everything we ate in London. Except that everything was almost twice as expensive as at home (we decided that basically ererything that cost a dollar at home cost a pound in the UK - except that the pound is $1.80!). I will be getting around to posting everything we ate eventually. Just curious for another thread I'll be posting in - has anyone eaten at a place called La Fromagerie (think that's the way it's spelled). We ate lunch there after going to a food market near High Marylebone Road. Hope to write up that afternoon next. Robyn

I just want to say that I'm sorry I couldn't participate. Would have liked to - but my father-in-law is starting 4 weeks of radiation therapy Monday - 5 days a week (we'll be driving him 100 miles a day to do it) - so I thought tomorrow would be a good time to take him to dinner and a movie (NASCAR at the Imax theater - looks like a great vertigo movie ). Please contact me if you plan to do it again and perhaps I'll have more time on my hands then. Robyn

I had no idea we had a "history" either . My goal here is to encourage people to explore fine dining options in the southeast (the southeast - it isn't all about BBQ anymore <sigh of relief>). We don't have much - and we're probably not world class yet - but we should patronize it so we don't revert to all BBQ - all the time 10 years from now. I live in the Jacksonville FL area - where we've just gotten our first hints of finer restaurants in the last 5 years. Should I trash them because they're not as good as the best in London or New York? No way. Because 10 years from now - I don't want to live in a city where the only dining quest is for the best fried chicken. Robyn

I don't remember people as much as I remember postings. So I can't remember our areas of disagreement (I'll take your word about it). Just curious - where are the meals you've eaten in the last year you thought were better than the Dining Room? No question there are better fine dining restaurants in the world (I've just returned from a week of eating in London - and had at least 3 meals there that were better). But I get terribly confused when someone gives Mary Mac's (a touristy fried chicken place where the fried chicken in my opinion isn't even that good) or the Varsity (the kind of greasy spoon burger/hot dog place you see profiled on The Food Network as a "local institution") a better absolute rating than the Dining Room. Or perhaps your ratings weren't meant to be absolute? If you want to say that the Dining Room is a B compared to an A++ at ADNY for fine dining (perhaps 2 New York Times stars as opposed to 4 - or 1 Michelin star as opposed to 3) - I couldn't disagree with that. But don't tell me that the Varsity is an "A" and the Dining Room is a "B" - unless you have some really warped idea of what you're supposed to find and like when you're traveling in the southeast. Are you saying that about the best you hope to find when you eat in the southeast is fried chicken and hot dogs and BBQ - and that other diners who travel here ought to stick to those timeworn cliches? Robyn (southerner by choice and proud of it)

When I went there last summer - I had the Crustacean menu (I'd call it more of a "theme" menu than a tasting menu). Sounds a little silly - but I love crustaceans - and light seafood is perfect for the south in the summer (the first 3 courses were cold courses - which wouldn't normally suit me except I'd been traipsing around in 95 degree heat all day - so cold courses hit the spot). We did meet Bruno Menard our last trip. Very nice guy. When he saw how much we were enjoying what we were eating - he brought out a couple of "new experimental" dishes for us to sample. He seems to love diners who are enthusiastic about his food - and we love chefs who are enthusiastic about their diners. A perfect match. As for chocolate - there are people who love it and people who can leave it alone. I'm in the former camp. My husband is in the latter. My most memorable dessert this most recent trip to London was (of course) a chocolate dessert. Robyn

Interesting! I tend to think of it the other way around - that Stateside, everyone eats very early. Top restaurants over there seem to have folks arriving at 5pm and often have last tables at barely 8:30pm or 9pm. Regarding cabs, it's a perenial problem here. In a lot of ways it's perpetuated by the 11:00pm pub closing time, so you can easily find a cab any time until about 10:45pm. After that it's difficult, particularly on a Friday and Saturday night. You should try getting a cab in Rome at any time of day, or in Sydney on a Friday evening... Cheers, Howard My husband and I are kind of in the middle - we like to eat about 8 - especially if we're at a restaurant where the meal can last for hours. I was simply surprised that so many people could begin eating full meals near 11 (perhaps the patrons were all Spanish ). I've never been in Sydney - but we avoided the problem in Rome by making an hourly arrangement with a cab driver. It was money well spent (in addition to driving us around - he was a very good guide). Robyn

The best place to buy these cheeses considering where you (and I) live is fromages.com. Overnight delivery from France. I've ordered from them many times. They're reliable - and their cheeses are wonderful. Robyn I currently have an order in with fromages.com that was supposed to be delivered today, but I'm now being told by FedEx that it's being held up by the FDA in Newark. I have no idea when I'll receive the cheese...I was told it could be as long as a week from now. I hope this is an anomaly. I've ordered from the website almost a dozen times and have never had a problem like that. Perhaps customs protocols/terrorist alerts/whatever are a lot different in the northeast than they are in the southeast. Robyn

My husband and I are close to 60 - not 5. And we have eaten adventurously in probably hundreds of restaurants in many countries for a long time. So I know what I love - like - can barely tolerate - and dislike. I think it's a safe bet to say at my age that I don't like caramel - never have - never will. Even some of the best caramel truffles in the world which were served to me as a "throwaway" at a world class restaurant in London last week (I ate 2 - the second to be sure I didn't like it - that was it). So should I order a caramel dessert or endure it on a tasting menu? I don't think so. I do think people should try everything - more than once - either cooked attentively at home or in restaurants. Don't knock okra until you've had it prepared properly. More importantly though - I'd do my learning at less than world class restaurants where the food will be prepared competently - not in a sublime fashion. No sense trying sweetbreads for the first time at a 3 star Michelin restaurant if they're going to make you want to throw up. But when all is said and done - and you've done your homework and tried just about everything every which way - you're bound to have your favorites. So when I go to a great restaurant - which I will probably only get to once in my life - I order the things I love - knowing that I will get the best possible preparations of those items. E.g., at the restaurant which served the caramel truffles - I ordered Bresse pigeon for my main course (one of my favorite dishes from one of my favorite places). And I will sing the praises of that bird for a long long time. By the way - I wouldn't have made this point if someone was talking about a lesser restaurant where one was learning and experimenting. But I think this particular restaurant - the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton in Buckhead - is a world class restaurant. And this particular chocolate dessert is a world class chocolate dessert. It's not fair to say - I don't like chocolate - but considering that I don't like chocolate - well you know this particular chocolate was ok. Makes it sound like the restaurant was serving a Hershey bar. And then one gives the restaurant a "B" because one never liked chocolate in the first place - and would probably never give an "A" to any chocolate dessert? This strikes me as being terribly unfair to the restaurant and the pastry chef. For what it's worth - the candy trolley at this restaurant was also terrific (even better in my opinon than the candy trolley at ADNY - although I did avoid the caramels at both places ). Robyn

Why wouldn't you order something? I saw your picture - and you're about my age - give or take. So you've been around the block. And the reason you wouldn't order something is (most likely) because you don't like it (very much). So what's the point of getting something you probably won't like - no matter how well it's prepared? E.g., in another thread - someone wrote (more or less) about one of the Chef's signature dishes on the tasting menu at the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton in Buckhead (a great restaurant in my opinion) - this was chocolate and I usually don't like chocolate but this was pretty good for chocolate. Who benefits from this? The diner - who gets a dish he really isn't crazy about? The Chef - who gets a lukewarm endorsement? No one - that's who. By the time you're 50 (even 40) - you probably know what you really like to eat - and the goal - in my opinion - especially when you're spending big money - is to get the best possible examples of those foods. If you love duck and dislike lamb - why have the tasting menu with the lamb? Go for the duck. And get a big enough portion that it lodges in your brain forever - not a tiny bit that gets lost among 20 other tiny bits. You know - I watch people here taking pictures - and taking notes - and I wonder how many could describe 2 dishes on a 15 course tasting menu 2 weeks later without benefit of pictures and notes. Not many I'll reckon. I have never had a dish on a tasting menu that I recall a decade later with great fondness (if I recall it at all) - but there are many such dishes from ALC menus (even 3 decades later). For what it's worth - when I'm in an excellent restaurant - I like to think that all of the dishes on the menu are dishes the Chef thinks are excellent. It's just that some of those dishes will appeal to some diners - and other dishes will appeal to others. Just my two cents. Robyn

This is one of the Chef's signature dishes. Too bad you don't like chocolate (I do and thought it was fabulous). There's a discussion in the Per Se thread about tasting menus - and I think your comment is another reason they should be avoided. Why waste a course eating something you don't basically like (no matter how well it's prepared)? Better to order ALC and get the things you really enjoy. By the way - I think this restaurant is probably the best restaurant in the southeast these days. Robyn

I'm not a good person to be writing in this thread because I didn't have a budget. We liked Anchor & Hope - but it certainly wasn't a place for someone on a budget (my husband's main was about 15 pounds - mine was 19). Robyn

Is it possible to avoid Wagamama in London? The day we arrived (at 7 am) - we went to Canary Wharf (sounds like an odd destination but it was fun at lunch hour - watching Tango dancers and getting the free ice cream from the company sponsoring them - viewing the gardens, sculpture and architecture - stocking up at Molton Brown). And we ate at Wagamama. Very nice comforting food (big bowl of soup and noodles) for the walking-dead jet-lag afflicted. Almost woke me up . Note that the location at Canary Wharf was jammed. Seems like a very popular place. I liked the way our orders were scribbled on our menus. And we enjoyed speaking to the diners on both sides of us in the communal dining setting. Robyn

After one meal - I obviously can't comment on consistency. I do suspect it's more of a style thing though. Just like all the arguments about the show gardens at Chelsea this year (the most contentious arguments I heard in London weren't at Speakers' Corner - they were at Chelsea!). As for you and Mrs. Aikens - some people are oil and water. For various (frequently no-fault) reasons. Such is life. Robyn

isn't that the beauty of opinions though? glad you enjoyed your meal robyn, it sounds like you had a good trip. We had a great trip. A combination of various things. Just about everything in London was very good ---> excellent. And we'll be spending most of June taking my father-in-law for radiation therapy for cancer. So it was our last chance to have a good time for a while - and we made the most of all the good things London has to offer. Robyn

I think that the premium for the tasting menu perhaps reflects the increased amount of service required - and the increased amount of time diners spend at a table (assuming the restaurant has more than one seating a night). Robyn

I don't have the time to write the kind of analysis you wrote right now. All I can say is I've pretty much given up on "tasting" menus. We just returned from a week in London - and the only disappointing meal we had was one "tasting menu" meal. Apart from this meal - we did the traditional ALC - starter - main and dessert - to great effect. Note that I also agree that it's difficult to do what I consider to be the heart of most great meals - the meats and game - in the context of a tasting menu. Anyway - thanks for this message. It's something I've thought about for a while - and I'm casting my "in-restaurant" votes for traditional ALC. Robyn

Well - I never made it to a sex shop - but we did eat . We had evening tickets for Phantom of the Opera (I don't know why it took me 10 years to see it - but it did - it's ok - but seems somewhat dated). Ate at J. Sheekey after. A table in the bar area. Had to wait even to get that (people in London can really eat very late). I can't do justice to what the restaurant might have to offer in terms of a full dinner - because my husband and I just had some drinks and appetizers (I had the prawns and they were excellent - my husband had the scallops and I liked those too). We shared a "spotted dick" for dessert - mostly because we had had too much to drink to know to avoid a traditional overly sweet dessert . I can say this about the restaurant though. The service is exceptional. Near the end of our little "meal" - the waiter unfortunately knocked over a glass of wine. The glass broke and the wine spilled on my pants and leather jacket. The staff did a great job of cleaning me up - and it gave us a "we're sorry" bottle of very nice Sauternes by way of apology. Apology accepted. And - when we left the restaurant to try to find a cab - at about 1:00 am - and returned 15 minutes later after not finding a cab - they had someone at the door who seemingly was employed just to find patrons a driver to take them home. That person was on duty until the last customer had left the restaurant. So if the restaurant is as good as our fleeting glimpse suggests - it is very good indeed. Another day we had matinee tickets for Jerry Springer - The Opera. Don't miss it. Scathingly funny. Designed to offend almost everyone. I know it will never make it to Jacksonville FL . On the other hand - I'm not sure why British audiences find it so amusing. Anyway - that day we had dim sum before theater. At Chuen Cheng Ku on Wardour Street. Excellent dim sum - with trolleys. Had some dishes we'd never seen before - including an especially delicious fried shrimp ball in some kind of feathery wrapper. The staff was more competent in English than we're used to - and very pleasant. I recommend this place highly. Wish I could have tried more of the places that were recommended. Robyn