robyn

Nearest Wholefoods is about 300 miles from here. The only time the area I live will be famous is next January - when we host the Super Bowl. I suspect it will be the proverbial 15 minutes of fame . Robyn

I am well past 50 too - and apart from the occasional foray into a new country or a new ethnic cuisine or a trip to a place I don't go to very often - like Europe - where for example - I can't remember what this fish tastes like - or what that fish tastes like - what do you find that's new? The only "new new" thing I had on this most recent trip to London was a spotted dick - a traditional English dessert that I had avoided on previous trips. I wish I had avoided it on this trip . I'm not talking about a specific preparation - just a basic ingredient - or type of ingredient - or a manner of preparation that is so unusual that it doesn't bear any relation to anything you've ever had before (e.g., ceviche would be a new type of preparation for someone who's never had fish prepared that way before). Perhaps I have spent too much of my life eating - but there really isn't much that I encounter on US menus that is totally unfamiliar. And - FWIW - when I do encounter one of those European fish I can't exactly remember - but when I do remember a little - I seem to recall that I liked it - I don't think it would make a dent in my food memory banks if all I had of it was a teeny tiny piece on a tasting menu. Robyn

I've only eaten a kaiseki meal once in my life. I certainly am not an expert. I thought the one I had was exquisite. But when my husband and I were finished - he was ready to eat dinner! To me - I guess a lot of the issues/problems revolve around the quantities of food being served. In most US restaurants with tasting menus - you're talking about having to consume enormous quantities of food to go from start to finish. And I just never have the slightest idea how to pace myself. So I usually run out of steam completely about half way through (the last tasing menu I had - I ran out of steam before the meat and dessert courses). With a menu that has fewer courses - I can eyeball the general size of the courses - and eat 2/3 or 1/2 of each course if necessary to "save room for dessert" (I'm a big dessert fan). But it's hard to eat half of small courses - or to know how to pace yourself when you're talking about 15 courses as opposed to 5. Note that with the kaiseki meal I ate - you were talking about really teeny tiny courses - no more than a small bite or two in each. One spent more time admiring the composition of the dish than consuming it. I ate the meal in a hotel in Hawaii that catered mostly to Japanese tourists - and - judging from the lack of girth in those patrons - they were used to eating relatively small quantities of food. In more "western" restaurants - I've found that the tasting menu is frequently an exercise in "Supersizing" - albeit over a very large number of smaller dishes. Perhaps if I were a 200 pound guy - I'd find the genre more appealing. Robyn

That's interesting. My husband and I both love sweetbreads - but I can't recall ever having them grilled. I suspect that's because I've never eaten them in a parrillada . Sounds delicious though. And I don't think I'll ever make them myself because I don't think there's anyone who sells them where I live. They will remain an infrequent treat that we eat when we travel. Robyn

I figured La Fromagerie wasn't exactly undiscovered . But we stumbled on it. Late that morning (Sunday) - we went to the open air food market across the street. Just planning to look around and perhaps get some food to eat there. But the market was rather small (although the samples we had were very tasty) - and the only hot food was sausage which wasn't ready. So we went across the street - and "found" La Fromagerie. Sat at one of the small tables - not the long one. Had 2 specials which were sitting in plain view. One was a salad of fresh peas (couldn't get enough fresh peas this visit), asparagus and fennel. The other was a veggie lasagna in phyllo. Both excellent - but not very filling. So we had a small cheese plate. The cheeses were exquisite - absolutely perfect. I am not surprised that the place furnishes cheeses to high end restaurants. I am surprised that I read a message about Tom Aikens serving mediocre cheese - including an unripe Epoisses - because I don't think this place would sell either. With a beer and a glass of wine - lunch came to $80 (about 45 pounds). That's expensive in my book too - but by Sunday we were so shell-shocked by the high restaurant prices in general that it didn't bother us. After we ate - we went shopping on Marylebone High Street (really liked the design stores and was pleasantly surprised that almost everything was open on Sunday). Then we walked to Regent's Park to look at/smell the roses (they were magnificent). Then we walked to Speaker's Corner and listened to everyone dissing the US (which is what we expected). And by the time we got back to the hotel - we figured we had walked off the calories in lunch . It was a very nice lazy Sunday - incorporating much of what I love about London. Robyn

I think perhaps a better phrase than "fine dining" when I'm talking about the Dining Room in Atlanta is world class. And - when I'm talking world class - it doesn't matter where the restaurant is - the southeast specs aren't any different than those anywhere else. Given this context - I think a "B" world class restaurant - which the Dining Room probably is - is usually an excellent place to dine. And it beats out a lot of restaurants I've dined at in places like New York. I don't know much about Mobil ratings - but I looked it up and there are only 13 star restaurants in the US. I've only eaten at 3 - so I don't know enough to comment on that particular rating system. In my opinion - the southeast has a lot of "good eats" - which I generally prefer to mediocre "fine dining" (which I define as $100+ restaurants with kind of ho-hum food). I find that my best eating experiences - no matter where I am - tend to polarize at the ends - "good eats" and "world class". Just an aside about New Orleans. I'm sure this won't make me popular - but I'm not especially fond of most of the food I've eaten there because it has much much too much salt. My husband and I have a code phrase for it - "New Orleans mouth" - which means we wake up in the middle of the night after a meal somewhere and need to chug a liter of water. Robyn

Exactly. Who wants to be stuck with an entire entree that doesn't suit their taste? You seem to negate your argument against tasting menus. On an ALC menu you get to choose. Why would you choose something you don't think you'll like? And if the chef screws up the dish - well that's not a fault on the part of the diner - it's a fault on the part of the chef. I don't think it should be necessary to order 10-20 dishes (however small) at a fine restaurant just to maximize your chances of getting some good ones. All the dishes at a really fine restaurant should be good - with the only variable being the personal preferences of the diner. Of course - this isn't the way things work these days. Used to be that a chef would work half a lifetime perfecting a half dozen dishes - and his restaurant then became a "destination" for those dishes. Today - not many people are happy with the half dozen perfect dishes. They always want something new - something different - something that hasn't been written up in a food magazine yet. So a lot of chefs crank out dozens of half-baked dishes (including the occasional winner) instead of a half dozen perfect ones. I tend to think that this is an unfortunate trend. I don't want to spend $300 and have to eat like a pig (and eating 20 courses - no matter how small - is eating like a pig when you're a small woman) just to get a couple of really good dishes. When I dine at world class places - I want an elegant and delicious meal - start to finish. A meal where I am delighted - entranced and sated - not stuffed. The only caveat I'd throw in here are some chefs are better and happier preparing certain things - and others are better and happier preparing other things. Therefore, I think one would be ill advised patronizing a restaurant where the chef works best with fish when one is in the mood to eat red meat. On the other hand - I am kind of old fashioned. I like the traditional classical French menu idea of a fish course followed by a meat course. And any chef worth his salt ought to be able to produce winners in both categories. Robyn

No problem. I can buy that. The three restaurants where I had better food in London were 1 Michelin 3 star and 2 Michelin 1 stars (and the 1 stars were both new - the 1 star was the first Michelin rating). And they were more in the $300+ plus range (a pound buys roughly what a dollar does - but the pound costs about $1.80). I think the Dining Room compares favorably with what I'd call the "second tier" of fine dining restaurants (which certainly wouldn't include the restaurants you mentioned). So - in that context - B is about right. I haven't found any first tier restaurants in the southeast yet - indeed they are few and far between no matter where you travel. Robyn

You think jeffj really sold out his rating on the Varsity for a paper hat?? Migawd, what is this world coming to? maybe the Ritz Carleton needs to rethink their meals and try a "gimmick" ... The Ritz Carlton does have a "gimmick" - a dessert trolley like ADNY. Of course - it might not be enough of an inducement for someone who wants a paper hat . Robyn

Sometimes - don't you wish they'd serve the meal backwards - so you could eat all of the terrific desserts before you got full? By the way - I really like madeleines too . Robyn

I don't know how you do that. It's as silly as trying to compare your meal at Per Se with a hot dog from a street vendor in New York. Or a meal at ADNY with a meal at a dim sum place in Chinatown. Would you ever try to do that? My rule when it comes to fine dining world wide is that price or any concept of value simply isn't an issue. You grade the food - that's it. It would be impossible to do things differently simply because costs in major cities vary a lot (e.g., our meals in London were probably 30-40% more expensive than similar meals in New York - should I downgrade all our meals in London because of that?) - and the costs of ingredients in high end restaurants can affect the price of a meal rather markedly (you want truffles and caviar and foie gras and lobster and vintage wine in the restaurant you'll pay X - you want the local pork loin with the local wine in the same restaurant - you'll pay a lot less). When a person attempts to review food - I think he or she has to compare apples with apples. Robyn

The last menu I had at the Dining Room was 8 courses - but that included an amuse and a sorbet. Basically - the courses were amuse, starter, soup, fish (with pasta), fish (with meat), cheese, sorbet and dessert (and then amuse dessert trolley). The menu was a crustaceean menu which was why the fish and meat courses were basically fish courses. All in all - I'd say it had more of the structure of a classic extended French menu than a tasting menu. And - because of the lightness of the main ingredients - there really wasn't a problem eating everything. You're correct that the wine pours were more than generous . Robyn

Then it is all the more reason for him to serve his food this way. Actually your point is well taken. If I was able to frequent TFL or Per Se, I would be much more interested in more in depth explorations of the cuisine. However, not being able to do so, I was content with sampling many different things. I'm not sure if I can do it justice - but I think the philosophy of Keller and the FL is that once you've had a bite or two of something - and your taste buds have been exciited - eating more of the same thing is kind of boring. So you're on to the next course in the quest for constant titillation. I don't think I agree with this philosophy - after all - I can eat licorice Jelly Bellies (one of my favorites) all night - but I suppose reasonable people can have opposing points of view. Robyn

I don't eat world class sushi/other Japanese bar type food that often - but - when I do - the sushi bar is usually the only way to go. I thought the review was on point in that it informed potential diners who've never eaten world class food of this kind (which probably covers a lot of people who live in New York) that they may have a markedly different experience if they sit at a table as opposed to the bar. Perhaps my only criticism of the review is I don't know how much Ms. Hesser knows about world class food of this type - and I wondered how the food compared to other world class restaurants in North America (basically on the west coast and in Hawaii). Was this simply terrific for New York - or was it terrific in a broader sense? Robyn

I would write email to fromages.com - let them know what's going on (it's not a big impersonal operation). And let us know what happens. Robyn

Just two comments on your post. When I eat meat - I like bones (and I sometimes gnaw on them in inelegant ways ). Can't recall ever seeing a piece of meat with proper bones served on a tasting menu. As for the age thing in terms of eating multi-course menus - I'm not sure it's as much a matter of age/number of courses as opposed to the richness of the courses (although age and size certainly enters into it to a certain degree - as a 5 foot tall 56 year old woman - I'll never be able to eat as much as a 6 foot tall 17 year old young man - although I could perhaps drink him under the table ). One of the best/worst meals my husband and I ever ate was in France when we were about 30. It wasn't that there was too much food - it's that it was all just too too rich (much too much in the way of butter/cream sauces). We both got sick as dogs after. I find that I can work my way through more courses when they're made with a lighter hand (and they usually are these days). Also - if I know there's something glorious at the end of the rainbow (i.e., great dessert chef) - I'll save some room in anticipation. Robyn

I don't know how to cook sweetbreads. I leave it to the experts. So I don't know if there's any pre-preparation (like some par boiling). At the end though - these were sauteed - and mixed into a very light kind of stew. With veggies - like really terrific carrots (probably steamed or boiled) - and beans. You're right that they're small (not microscopic - perhaps 1-2 inches - but very unlike the 1 very large sweetbread - perhaps 4 inches in length - I had at Menu - which was lightly fried). It was a terrific meal. I can't tell you how much we enjoyed almost everything we ate in London. Except that everything was almost twice as expensive as at home (we decided that basically ererything that cost a dollar at home cost a pound in the UK - except that the pound is $1.80!). I will be getting around to posting everything we ate eventually. Just curious for another thread I'll be posting in - has anyone eaten at a place called La Fromagerie (think that's the way it's spelled). We ate lunch there after going to a food market near High Marylebone Road. Hope to write up that afternoon next. Robyn

I just want to say that I'm sorry I couldn't participate. Would have liked to - but my father-in-law is starting 4 weeks of radiation therapy Monday - 5 days a week (we'll be driving him 100 miles a day to do it) - so I thought tomorrow would be a good time to take him to dinner and a movie (NASCAR at the Imax theater - looks like a great vertigo movie ). Please contact me if you plan to do it again and perhaps I'll have more time on my hands then. Robyn

I had no idea we had a "history" either . My goal here is to encourage people to explore fine dining options in the southeast (the southeast - it isn't all about BBQ anymore <sigh of relief>). We don't have much - and we're probably not world class yet - but we should patronize it so we don't revert to all BBQ - all the time 10 years from now. I live in the Jacksonville FL area - where we've just gotten our first hints of finer restaurants in the last 5 years. Should I trash them because they're not as good as the best in London or New York? No way. Because 10 years from now - I don't want to live in a city where the only dining quest is for the best fried chicken. Robyn

I don't remember people as much as I remember postings. So I can't remember our areas of disagreement (I'll take your word about it). Just curious - where are the meals you've eaten in the last year you thought were better than the Dining Room? No question there are better fine dining restaurants in the world (I've just returned from a week of eating in London - and had at least 3 meals there that were better). But I get terribly confused when someone gives Mary Mac's (a touristy fried chicken place where the fried chicken in my opinion isn't even that good) or the Varsity (the kind of greasy spoon burger/hot dog place you see profiled on The Food Network as a "local institution") a better absolute rating than the Dining Room. Or perhaps your ratings weren't meant to be absolute? If you want to say that the Dining Room is a B compared to an A++ at ADNY for fine dining (perhaps 2 New York Times stars as opposed to 4 - or 1 Michelin star as opposed to 3) - I couldn't disagree with that. But don't tell me that the Varsity is an "A" and the Dining Room is a "B" - unless you have some really warped idea of what you're supposed to find and like when you're traveling in the southeast. Are you saying that about the best you hope to find when you eat in the southeast is fried chicken and hot dogs and BBQ - and that other diners who travel here ought to stick to those timeworn cliches? Robyn (southerner by choice and proud of it)

When I went there last summer - I had the Crustacean menu (I'd call it more of a "theme" menu than a tasting menu). Sounds a little silly - but I love crustaceans - and light seafood is perfect for the south in the summer (the first 3 courses were cold courses - which wouldn't normally suit me except I'd been traipsing around in 95 degree heat all day - so cold courses hit the spot). We did meet Bruno Menard our last trip. Very nice guy. When he saw how much we were enjoying what we were eating - he brought out a couple of "new experimental" dishes for us to sample. He seems to love diners who are enthusiastic about his food - and we love chefs who are enthusiastic about their diners. A perfect match. As for chocolate - there are people who love it and people who can leave it alone. I'm in the former camp. My husband is in the latter. My most memorable dessert this most recent trip to London was (of course) a chocolate dessert. Robyn

Interesting! I tend to think of it the other way around - that Stateside, everyone eats very early. Top restaurants over there seem to have folks arriving at 5pm and often have last tables at barely 8:30pm or 9pm. Regarding cabs, it's a perenial problem here. In a lot of ways it's perpetuated by the 11:00pm pub closing time, so you can easily find a cab any time until about 10:45pm. After that it's difficult, particularly on a Friday and Saturday night. You should try getting a cab in Rome at any time of day, or in Sydney on a Friday evening... Cheers, Howard My husband and I are kind of in the middle - we like to eat about 8 - especially if we're at a restaurant where the meal can last for hours. I was simply surprised that so many people could begin eating full meals near 11 (perhaps the patrons were all Spanish ). I've never been in Sydney - but we avoided the problem in Rome by making an hourly arrangement with a cab driver. It was money well spent (in addition to driving us around - he was a very good guide). Robyn

The best place to buy these cheeses considering where you (and I) live is fromages.com. Overnight delivery from France. I've ordered from them many times. They're reliable - and their cheeses are wonderful. Robyn I currently have an order in with fromages.com that was supposed to be delivered today, but I'm now being told by FedEx that it's being held up by the FDA in Newark. I have no idea when I'll receive the cheese...I was told it could be as long as a week from now. I hope this is an anomaly. I've ordered from the website almost a dozen times and have never had a problem like that. Perhaps customs protocols/terrorist alerts/whatever are a lot different in the northeast than they are in the southeast. Robyn

My husband and I are close to 60 - not 5. And we have eaten adventurously in probably hundreds of restaurants in many countries for a long time. So I know what I love - like - can barely tolerate - and dislike. I think it's a safe bet to say at my age that I don't like caramel - never have - never will. Even some of the best caramel truffles in the world which were served to me as a "throwaway" at a world class restaurant in London last week (I ate 2 - the second to be sure I didn't like it - that was it). So should I order a caramel dessert or endure it on a tasting menu? I don't think so. I do think people should try everything - more than once - either cooked attentively at home or in restaurants. Don't knock okra until you've had it prepared properly. More importantly though - I'd do my learning at less than world class restaurants where the food will be prepared competently - not in a sublime fashion. No sense trying sweetbreads for the first time at a 3 star Michelin restaurant if they're going to make you want to throw up. But when all is said and done - and you've done your homework and tried just about everything every which way - you're bound to have your favorites. So when I go to a great restaurant - which I will probably only get to once in my life - I order the things I love - knowing that I will get the best possible preparations of those items. E.g., at the restaurant which served the caramel truffles - I ordered Bresse pigeon for my main course (one of my favorite dishes from one of my favorite places). And I will sing the praises of that bird for a long long time. By the way - I wouldn't have made this point if someone was talking about a lesser restaurant where one was learning and experimenting. But I think this particular restaurant - the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton in Buckhead - is a world class restaurant. And this particular chocolate dessert is a world class chocolate dessert. It's not fair to say - I don't like chocolate - but considering that I don't like chocolate - well you know this particular chocolate was ok. Makes it sound like the restaurant was serving a Hershey bar. And then one gives the restaurant a "B" because one never liked chocolate in the first place - and would probably never give an "A" to any chocolate dessert? This strikes me as being terribly unfair to the restaurant and the pastry chef. For what it's worth - the candy trolley at this restaurant was also terrific (even better in my opinon than the candy trolley at ADNY - although I did avoid the caramels at both places ). Robyn

Why wouldn't you order something? I saw your picture - and you're about my age - give or take. So you've been around the block. And the reason you wouldn't order something is (most likely) because you don't like it (very much). So what's the point of getting something you probably won't like - no matter how well it's prepared? E.g., in another thread - someone wrote (more or less) about one of the Chef's signature dishes on the tasting menu at the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton in Buckhead (a great restaurant in my opinion) - this was chocolate and I usually don't like chocolate but this was pretty good for chocolate. Who benefits from this? The diner - who gets a dish he really isn't crazy about? The Chef - who gets a lukewarm endorsement? No one - that's who. By the time you're 50 (even 40) - you probably know what you really like to eat - and the goal - in my opinion - especially when you're spending big money - is to get the best possible examples of those foods. If you love duck and dislike lamb - why have the tasting menu with the lamb? Go for the duck. And get a big enough portion that it lodges in your brain forever - not a tiny bit that gets lost among 20 other tiny bits. You know - I watch people here taking pictures - and taking notes - and I wonder how many could describe 2 dishes on a 15 course tasting menu 2 weeks later without benefit of pictures and notes. Not many I'll reckon. I have never had a dish on a tasting menu that I recall a decade later with great fondness (if I recall it at all) - but there are many such dishes from ALC menus (even 3 decades later). For what it's worth - when I'm in an excellent restaurant - I like to think that all of the dishes on the menu are dishes the Chef thinks are excellent. It's just that some of those dishes will appeal to some diners - and other dishes will appeal to others. Just my two cents. Robyn