robyn

It's not a "destination" restaurant - and it's in Chicago - which isn't a "destination" city. I happen to love Chicago - and the eating there (and the architecture and the art!) - so don't blame it on me. Robyn I have to strongly disagree with you here. Have you been to Trio? Have you been to Moto? Charlie Trotters? Chicago restaurants are much further advanced than any other major city in the world. I have just named 3 tasting menu only restaurants, there are 2 others........no other city in the world can even come close to that. Unfortunately, many diners take chicago for what it use to be. Look at it from an unbiased standpoint. For many years chicago has had a label as a "fast food town", I can tell you personally I know many chicago diners that are tired of that and support restaurants like Moto and Trio a lot. You cant come close to experiences like these anywhere else in the US. Chef Achatz & Cantu will lead Chicago to a very new level of dining. As far as Trio not being a destination restaurant - I think this makes me want to cry. Whoa - don't shoot the messenger. I am a big fan of Chicago - and also happen to think that it has one of the best hotels in the world these days (The Peninsula). But just ask the people in this thread who don't live in the US whether they plan vacation trips to Chicago to wine/dine/look at art/etc. You don't have to convince *me* that they're missing something - you have to convince them! Robyn

If a restaurant is supposed to be among the top 50 in the world (and charging accordingly) - I think *it* should have a web site which contains - among other things - accurate information about its reservations policy (so people won't have to rely on other web sites - or messages written by people they don't know). Robyn

There are some decent fancy restaurants in the area - Cafes Maxx and Arugala. Brooks - a little bit north - is decent too. But if you want someplace that's kind of fun - historical - a little quirky - and east of US1 - try Cap's. The food (seafood) isn't cheap - or exceptional - but it's one of the few historic landmark restaurants in Florida. Perhaps the best thing about the restaurant is you'll be amazed when you get there (by boat) that you're still in Pompano Beach! Robyn

It's not so much a particular geographical area - as particular socioeconomic areas. Go to places where lower middle class or lower class white people live - and you'll find your so-called stereotypical southern bars. Since there are more people in these socioeconomic groups in the central - northern - and western parts of the state - as opposed to the southeast and southwest coastal areas - your pickings will be better there. Heck - you can even find bars like this if you look around enough. By the way - I do not recommend these authentic bars as "tourist" experiences. We're not talking young kids with country music with lots of beer bars. The bars where people went this week after attending the Alabama farewell tour concert (at $1000/seat for front row seats!!). We're talking (just IMO) white trash sexist racist anti-semitic "white power" places where I doubt most people here would feel comfortable. And if anyone thinks I'm being unduly harsh about the southeast - when I used to live in Boston - the "southie" bars were no better. Just the accents were different. My husband and I don't like bars with confederate flags (and they mean it when they fly the confederate flag) - or politically correct fern bars where you can't smoke. Guess that's why we do most of our drinking at home these days (unless we're in south Florida where there are many more places with outdoor patio facilities where smoking is allowed). Robyn

Anyone who's a member can start a thread. Robyn

P.S. Forgot to ask a question. Since you have run markets in the past - and will probably do similar work in the future - does this mean you'd ban pies from markets if they have Crisco crusts - but allow the ones with olive oil crusts? Regardless of how they taste? Robyn

There is a market in Chattanooga like you describe - open air shed. Very pleasant even in the heat of summer (at least in the morning). The foods that you describe as "all season" are for the most part (except perhaps fish) - but they aren't necessarily local - or anywhere near local. So what's the point of buying them at a "farmers' market"? It's like we have a million roadside "Georgia" peach stands here - but all the peaches are from areas more than 100 miles away - and the people selling them along the roadside buy them from commercial distributors. I think I'd rather buy my peaches at Publix. Robyn

I have a simple theory about fat. It's fattening (100 calories a tbsp.). And if you eat too much of it - you get fat. So I eat it sparingly. But - when I eat it - I want a fat that's appropriate to the dish. That wouldn't usually be margarine - but there are certainly people who cook terrific pies who swear by their Crisco. I'm sure I've eaten many a sweet potato pie with a Crisco crust at local fairs (I've doubtless eaten many with lard crusts too). Olive oil in a pie crust. Yuck. Ditto with oil olive in chocolates (I've had some of the new trendy ones with olive oil and they're not worth the calories IMO). But these are just my personal preferences. It's a free world - and I think people should be able to eat anything they want to eat. And for whatever reason (whether it's because it tastes good - or because it's a matter of political, religious or some other "non-taste" preference). Only thing that makes me mad is people trying to pass laws that attempt to impose their standards on me. By the way - my husband is old enough to remember when it was illegal to dye margarine before it was sold - and you had to mix the margarine with a package of dye that was sold with it to make it yellow (the law was passed at the insistence of the dairy industry). He recalls the natural color as white (just like Crisco). By the way - he grew up in New Jersey. Families used margarine then because they couldn't afford butter. And that's one reason margarine is used in many somewhat old (e.g., 50 year old) family recipes. Robyn

If you don't mind my asking - what did you pay for the wine pairings? There are more and more restaurants here in the US doing wine pairings. And at all except perhaps a handful of the highest end restaurants in the entire country - you wouldn't normally expect to pay more than about $50-65 per person. The biggest bargain we had lately was a 3 glass wine pairing of nice (not extraordinary) wines at a seafood chain restaurant (Legal Seafoods - it is a *very* good higher end chain) for $12 per person. It's hard to beat that . Robyn

Well - once again people are talking about the southeast without mentioning Florida although it is the most southeastern state in the country - and the largest state in terms of population in the region. As far as smoking is concerned - you can't smoke indoors in most food establishments in Florida (exception is made for standalone bars where only a small fraction of sales - I think it's 10% or less - comes from food). Since the state is so big - I'm sure people can find any kind of bar they're looking for here (except a bar that serves a fair amount of food and allows smoking indoors). Robyn

These sound like reasonable rules to me. After all - New York City is a place where everyone thinks Mayor Bloomberg is a real Republican . Seriously - it's boring to discuss things like politics/religion and the like with people who agree with you. And disruptive to discuss these things with people who disagree (e.g., perhaps most of you don't have members of your family who are "born again" - I do - and let's just say that discussions between Jews and "born again" Christians don't make for pleasant dinner talk). Also - when you have aged parents who are preoccupied with health issues 24/7 - it is really a total bore to discuss medical problems (I know more than I ever wanted to know about 2 dozen medical problems - and I don't have any interest in learning about 3 dozen more - from anyone). I really like to keep dinner conversation on the lighter - but interesting side. There are so many things people can talk about - and disagree about - while finding no need to get really upset about the disagreements. Robyn

I had to laugh reading your message. I only stayed at Gidleigh once for about 3 days in 1987. And it was terrific. As was everything else in the area - from hikes to clotted cream teas. But the roads - they were something else. Perhaps for someone who lives in the UK and is used to "brown roads" - they're fun and exciting. But for Yanks who aren't used to driving cars with manual transmissions along roads that are 1 1/2 lanes wide - with stone walls on both sides - where you have to back down from time to time when another car approaches - well let's just say that the staff and guests at Gidleigh would make small wagers about who would or wouldn't arrive with all 4 tires intact . It's a trip that I certainly would never want to make in the dark. Robyn

I don't think this question can ever be answered in the abstract: it depends entirely on what you like. Actually - I like lots of different things. And I don't get to London that often. So - when I get there - I really like to do - and perhaps overdo - things . When you only get to London once every 5-10 years - frequently this year's best restaurants aren't there next time around. So you have to enjoy them while they exist. I already have a reservation at Gordon Ramsay - and I think the one month window for the dates I would like at Tom Aikens will open tomorrow or Tuesday - have to check my calendar. Anyway - I was just concerned about having an unpleasant experience (perhaps some messages here have overemphasized how the Mrs. behaved on an occasion or two). Perhaps my concerns were unjustified. I hope it isn't the proverbial "impossible dinner reservation". Robyn

I am a born and bred Southerner, and consider margarine to be an abomination. And it's not like we grew up rich. Farthest thing from it. Or maybe I'm the farthest thing from it, since I left Georgia three months after my eighteeth birthday. My underlying reason at the time: there were no health food stores open on Sunday. I knew margarine was in the same league as CoffeeMate, CheezWhiz, and Cool Whip. I was so glad my grandparents had both in the refrigerator, so that those of us who couldn't stomach the additives could have a choice. Margarine is an industrial product. It tastes like an industrial (substitute "corporate" if it helps you feel the evil), and it is the shoe polish of condiments. Getting used to nasty products doesn't make for heritage. My Southern heritage goes back to an American Revolutionary war general in South Carolina. My taste, while marginal, doesn't ever include "margarine" as something that would earn compliments for the cook. And yeah, people are used to it? So what? They're used to McDonald's, and I don't want to see Chicken McDooDoo sold as anything other than "caloric entertainment." 'Cause they aren't food. Yes, you can make a meal out of them, but they aren't food. Even if I consume fast food, no way do I want to find that kind of crap at my farmer's market. They're there to show ME how it can be. That's what they'd been doing for years. Go ahead, take my head off. I won't take your head off. I was just observing what I see in many southern kitchens and restaurants. And - FWIW - margarine - along with products like non-dairy creamers and non-dairy whipped toppings - are used extensively in places that serve Kosher food - where you can't serve meat and dairy together. Frankly - I am not very judgmental in terms of what other people eat - as long as they don't try to tell me what to eat. Robyn

I got my information off more than a dozen internet websites. E.g., The Wine Enthusiast. Perhaps all of this web information is out of date and someone can point us to the most recent policy? Robyn

I read an article recently which discussed the seasonal closing of the markets in (I believe) Chicago. There were people who thought they should be open all year long - but most people said - the produce is seasonal - the markets should be seasonal. So this raises another issue. Should markets be open all year in parts of the country where production is basically a spring to fall thing? Note that even in parts of the country where production is thought to be year round (like south Florida) - it really isn't. E.g., there are if I remember correctly 3 strawberry crop rotations - but there are times when there's nothing fresh to be had because the next crop isn't ripe for picking yet. And when it comes to something like citrus - yes - it grows year round - but the harvest only comes once a year. Robyn

I suspect that most people who live in the US aren't close to producers who produce a wide variety of things. For example - although I live in an area that has a fair amount of food production - it consists mainly of potatoes, cabbage, peppers (for hot pepper sauce) and cattle in the intermediate stages of production. We also have a major shrimp fleet. I don't think our local restaurants would be happy campers if they tried to buy everything locally. And I am not ready to live on a diet of potatoes and cabbage and hot sauce and shrimp - no matter how local or excellent these products are. Robyn

I don't live in New York - but the market at Union Square certainly isn't "huge" in my opinion. I was only there once - but I recall it's around a square that's about 2 New York city blocks on each side. Wasn't "densely populated" with vendors when I was there. I've been to markets in other cities that were quite a bit larger. Also - a note about margarine to those who have expressed opinions. It isn't my favorite - but it's certainly a key ingredient in many homemade baked goods in markets in the south. I consider its use to be a matter of regional preference - not a badge of dishonor. Robyn

Although I agree with you - perhaps I can shed some light on how Balthazar got on the list. I had one of the most fun meals in my life at Balthazar. A very late afternoon late lunch/early dinner before theater. Walk in. No waiting. The huge tower of seafood. With fries. And a snappy bottle of white wine. Terrific service. Everything was first rate. Was it great food? No. But it was an excellent example of the kind of food it was serving. Robyn

Atelier doesn't take reservations. Robyn

It's not a "destination" restaurant - and it's in Chicago - which isn't a "destination" city. I happen to love Chicago - and the eating there (and the architecture and the art!) - so don't blame it on me. Robyn

What time of year are you planning to go? Robyn

I'm planning a 1 week trip to London in May - and - after reading hundreds of pages of restaurant descriptions and reviews - I know this isn't the only place where the reading is "mixed". But - at some point - you simply have to "bite the bullet" and make reservations. So - I ask in all seriousness - is this a place worth dining at? I am not interested in putting another "notch" on my belt (at my age - I have plenty of notches on my belt). I'm interested in good food - pleasant inviting atmosphere - and not getting into a fight with anyone (I don't know about anyone else - but if someone is grumpy and tries to pick a fight with me - I fight back - I don't think one should ever have to do that at a restaurant). Robyn

Thank you everyone for the ideas. Let me know if you have more. I'm making a copy of this thread - and tucking it in my travel stuff (along with little dots on my map showing where the places are). Mela might for good for lunch if it's open on Saturday (will check). We are going to Zaika for "New Indian" cuisine (or whatever it's called) - but want "traditional" Indian cuisine too. I doubt we will ever travel to India - but we love Indian food - so it's one thing we will want to eat more than once. Do the wine bars like Cork & Barrel generally serve hard liquor too? Or just wine (my husband likes wine - but I stick to liquor for the most part since the acid in many wines doesn't agree with me)? Wine/drinks & cheese & perhaps some other things to munch sounds fine. I don't know about anyone else - but I find it hard to plan eating when I'm going to an evening performance. I'm usually not hungry at 6 (and - since I'm not good with jet lag either - I'm not usually hungry at all at 6 in London). And when you get out of the theater - it's usually kind of late to eat a proper dinner. So my usual solution is to eat a bit before - and a bit after. Last time we were in London - we went to Harrod's food court - and brought wine and cheese and fruit and bread back to the hotel for "before" - and then experienced some of that not very good pub food after. I would like to repeat the Harrod's part of the equation - but not the pub part we had last time. Jerry Springer does sound like a lot of fun. I know people have said that if I want to get better food - I should go to Paris instead of London. But I've been to Paris several times. And - as I get older - there are experiences that are as important to me - if not more important sometimes - than food. Theater is one of them. And London is the best English speaking theater city in the world (in my opinion at least). Last time I was in London (1997) I saw The Beauty Queen of Leanne - which was one of the 2 best dramas I have ever seen in my whole life. Another experience - well (clearing throat) - since this is a family web site - I'll just ask Gavin if a middle aged woman would feel comfortable in that sex shop - or is it the kind of place where only younger people with pieces of metal stuck through strange parts of their bodies feel comfortable? Not only don't we have any really terrific restaurants where I live - we don't have any terrific sex shops either (they don't exactly thrive in the "Bible Belt" of the US). By the way - I'm getting excited about this trip. This will be my 5th visit to London/UK - and my travels there will have spanned 5 decades with this trip (first was in 1968). It will be my first trip flying "Upper Class" on Virgin Atlantic (and for those of you who save "frequent flyer miles" - the free trip on that airline is - in my opinion - probably the best transatlantic value today in terms of redeeming points). Robyn

I wonder why Michelin didn't give it even one star (I haven't read anything bad about the place anywhere)? Robyn