robyn

Where will you be staying - what kind of food does he like - and how adventurous is he (is he 50 and open to new things - or 80 and kind of set in his ways)? When you say he's never been to a "fancy" restaurant - how "unfancy" are we talking about? Robyn

I have seen uncouth uneducated (about food) people dining in Atlanta - but I have also seen similarly uncouth uneducated people dining in cities that are supposed to be "frontwaters" (as opposed to "backwaters" ). I think you give people in other parts of the world credit for more sophistication than they have (in general). Robyn

And they have reservations at the other three restaurants as well. I can't recall ever making multiple restaurant reservations. Either I want to go to a particular place on a particular night - or I don't. I of course have had to cancel reservations before. Who hasn't (Tommy's point)? Heck - I've had to cancel entire trips because of family illness. SH** happens (especially when all your parents are in their 80's). But that's stuff you can't control. You can control the number of reservations you make. Robyn

Have you ever walked out of a restaurant that kept you waiting? My husband and I will usually give it 20 minutes max - unless the bar is awful - and then we'll give it maybe 10 minutes. I find that I enjoy a meal more when I'm not pissed by the time I get seated. For what it's worth - at most really big deal restaurants these days - I have to give credit card info - and reconfirm 24 hours in advance. Robyn

It's done - and I've done it when people who came to visit wanted to dine in specific busy restaurants that: 1) didn't take/honor reservations; and 2) I knew the grease would work - and how much was necessary. On my own - I make a point of avoiding those restaurants. Robyn

I agree 100%. I live in a relatively hick part of the US - but even I can get superb raspberries this time of year. And my husband makes great whipped cream. So why would I want to pay money to eat this at a restaurant? I can also do the "pasta" thing - with stuff like fresh homemade pesto (all you need is fresh basil - a few common ingredients - and a food processor). Or tomatoes and fresh mozzarella. When I go to a high end restaurant and spend big money - I want something I would never in a million years think of making myself - something that would take me forever to make - even if I dared to try - something that looks beautiful - and tastes delicious. Something I can look at and eat and say - this person is 1000 times more talented than I am. Otherwise - what's the point of eating out (on the high end)? By the way - I kind of disagree on the short ribs - because the last time I ate them was at Le Cirque 2000. Not only were the ribs exquisite - but they took the marrow out of the ribs - combined it with some other stuff (who knows what it was?) - and stuffed it back into the ribs. The ribs were wonderful but I could have eaten about a pint of that marrow. Note that at this same meal - I had fruit sorbet for dessert. Sounds boring - but each of the 4 or 5 sorbets was a perfect tromp l'oeil of the fruit. The plate was both delicious - and gorgeous. A real knockout. Robyn

Don't know how old your kids are - but use them to try new things. Go for dim sum in Chinatown - then an afternoon movie - even a play if they're old enough - in/near Leicester Square. Lunch and the science museum on Exhibition Road (my lunch choice would be Harrod's - but I suspect your kids are too young to enjoy the monetary sacrifice ). The double decker bus tour! I think it's fun to be a "tourist" where you live (when we have company - we always do the "tourist" thing with them - and I can assure that our tourist stuff is a whole lot more pedestrian than yours is). Robyn

I vote for the latter. I think what happens is that people of a certain age (younger than me) are just so busy working - taking care of family - etc. - etc. You don't take the time to slow down a bit and "smell the roses" (quite literally - since the roses in Regents Park were fabulous a few weeks ago). I used to live in big cities when I was young - and - to me - there was nothing better than taking a Saturday or Sunday - and setting off on foot in a particular neighborhood. Perhaps I'd have one destination - and then I'd spend the rest of the day wandering - poking around. Stores - gardens - restaurants - museums - whatever. Sometimes I'd find great stuff. Sometimes everything would be mediocre. But the chase was part of the fun. When I go to a city like London - like I did last month - I do the same thing (of course - as a tourist - I can do it 5 days in a row - not only on a weekend). Can't say I found anything that 10,000 people haven't already discovered - but I had a lot of fun. And - at a minimum - when you walk 5 miles poking around - you will burn off the calories from everything you eat that day! Robyn

I bought the package of 4 cedar planks from Williams Sonoma last year (you soak them and put them on the grill) - and really like them for seafood (particularly salmon). Imparts a nice wood fired taste while avoiding the problems of overcooking fish. As for cleaning - if I don't clean the grill - the racoons will pick it apart at night and (try to) lick it clean. The idea of coon spittle all over my food just doesn't appeal to me. So I clean that grill as well as I clean everything else in my kitchen. Robyn

Perhaps other people are too polite to mention this. I'm not. I think it's a serious breach of restaurant etiquette to make 4 restaurant reservations for a particular night - knowing that you will cancel 3. What if everyone did that? And I called up one of those restaurants trying to make a reservation - only to be told that the restaurant was fully booked - when - in reality - none of those reservations was made with good intentions. I don't live in New York - so when I make reservations at high end restaurants in New York - I do so well in advance. And if I can't make the reservation (we're booked) - that's the end of me. How would you feel if a high end restaurant booked 4 groups for each table at 8 for Friday a month from now - knowing that it would call 3 of those groups a week in advance to cancel? Robyn

Neither have I (that restaurant almost made me - and my tummy - feel like royalty) . It is difficult to explain to someone who has never experienced a real 3 star Michelin European dining experience how it differs from most of the best of what New York has to offer. So I won't try. As for people who say ambience shouldn't count - I've been trying to come up with a good analogy. I'm not sure this is good - but here it is. I like to get a massage now and then - and say I find a masseuse who's terrific. Don't you think the quality of the massage experience will be different if I have the massage in the spa at the Breakers in Palm Beach - as opposed to the YMCA? The logical extension - albeit reductio ad absurdum <sp?> - of saying ambience doesn't count is rating take-out places and restaurants with the same yardstick. Robyn

There's an Uncle Tai's in Boca Raton - and the owner was supposed to have run a terrific restaurant in New York. Don't know how many stars it had (if any). Robyn P.S. After reading a little further in the thread - see you found the name of the restaurant. The Boca Center is in Boca Raton FL (perhaps there's another branch of this restaurant in Dallas). Uncle Tai's opened in Boca - I'd guess - in the 80's. It was very elegant then - and it's still fairly elegant. And the food is quite good - particularly in terms of Florida Chinese restaurant standards. It's certainly a far cry from your typical Chinese restaurant. On the other hand - it's not anywhere near a 4 star NYT restaurant (although perhaps it was in New York).

I'm not sure about that. I only went to Le Cirque 2000 once - and the food I ate was more Italian than French (although it wasn't 100% in either camp). And I think it got a 4 star rating - yes? Robyn

Apropos of "star inflation" - I'll add that in a city like London - which is every bit as big as New York - there is only 1 3 star Michelin restaurant in the city proper - and 2 others near the city. And you're not talking large numbers when it comes to 1 and 2 star restaurants either. By the way - I don't remember a Chinese restaurant at Bellagio. Must be relatively new (or perhaps I missed it - you could eat in that hotel for a week and not try everything). Robyn

It is. I don't know what your goal in dining is - but my goal (at times) is to get the best possible food in the best possible surroundings. I can live with lots of different kinds of music or atmosphere - as long as whatever is going on isn't so loud that I can't hear the staff explaining the menu or my husband talking to me. But - in addition - I want space! I'll give you a "for example" We had dinner at Cafe Boulud one night - in one of the tables along the side wall. The tables were small and tight as (fill in the blank). And then the 2 guys next to us (obviously lawyers) start talking about a case in Florida - and the judge and lawyers in that case - in very graphic (unflattering) personal terms. And my husband and I raise an eyebrow - because we happen to be lawyers - and the case and the people they're talking about - well we know everything about them. Now mind you - we live in Florida - and here we are in New York hearing all this stuff at a New York restaurant. If I wanted to hear the latest gossip about Miami lawyers - I would have stayed home and gone to my local bar. I don't need it to intrude on a very expensive meal. Anyway - we let these guys prattle on for a while - and then we told them who we were - and that their very public discussion wouldn't go unreported back home. Boy - were they pissed. Anyway - in my opinion - any place this can happen isn't a 4 star restaurant. When I am paying big bucks for a meal - I want excellent food - excellent service - in lovely surroundings - and a modicum of privacy. Robyn P.S. Having just returned from a week of fine dining in London - I can only say that 3 out of the 4 starred Michelin restaurants I ate at were better than anyplace I've dined at in the US in recent years - with the exception of ADNY (which was more Europe than NY). Not that I have an overwhelming amount of experience. It's just that when you go to most NY restaurants - no matter what food is being served - almost everything is too hurried - too cramped - the dining simply isn't pleasant. P.P.S. Mea culpa. I'm braindead tonight. At dinner - my husband reminded me that we had a world class meal at Le Cirque 2000 in New York (and it was Italian) - and one at Nobu too. Not recently. Probably 5 years ago or so. As for the atmosphere at Nobu - it might have been unusual because we were a party of 12 and had a really big private table in the back of the restaurant.

Have you exchanged email with fromages.com? What did they say (if you did)? Robyn

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Yes - women of all ages get married and have bridesmaids - but I think the latter tends to become more infrequent as women age (there's just something a little weird about a 40 year old bridesmaid IMO - I think the dresses were made for younger women ). I agree that at a fine restaurant - all guests - no matter who they are - or how they behave - should be treated the same. On the other hand - wait staff who have a limited number of tables during a busy shift - when they rely on tips for a living - sometimes cannot avoid showing their hostility toward diners who put them in a position of not making the tips they would like to get (whether it's because they don't eat a lot of food - like a group of 10 women who split 5 salads - or because they're just lousy tippers - like a group of very young people like my nieces or very old people like my parents who think that 10% is plenty - or a group of Europeans who aren't accustomed to US tipping practices). I think most wait staff have a set of stereotypes when it comes to tipping - and some of the stereotypes aren't unjustified. And this may show up in the type of service a diner receives. I'm not saying it's right. I just think it happens. Robyn

Nearest Wholefoods is about 300 miles from here. The only time the area I live will be famous is next January - when we host the Super Bowl. I suspect it will be the proverbial 15 minutes of fame . Robyn

I am well past 50 too - and apart from the occasional foray into a new country or a new ethnic cuisine or a trip to a place I don't go to very often - like Europe - where for example - I can't remember what this fish tastes like - or what that fish tastes like - what do you find that's new? The only "new new" thing I had on this most recent trip to London was a spotted dick - a traditional English dessert that I had avoided on previous trips. I wish I had avoided it on this trip . I'm not talking about a specific preparation - just a basic ingredient - or type of ingredient - or a manner of preparation that is so unusual that it doesn't bear any relation to anything you've ever had before (e.g., ceviche would be a new type of preparation for someone who's never had fish prepared that way before). Perhaps I have spent too much of my life eating - but there really isn't much that I encounter on US menus that is totally unfamiliar. And - FWIW - when I do encounter one of those European fish I can't exactly remember - but when I do remember a little - I seem to recall that I liked it - I don't think it would make a dent in my food memory banks if all I had of it was a teeny tiny piece on a tasting menu. Robyn

I've only eaten a kaiseki meal once in my life. I certainly am not an expert. I thought the one I had was exquisite. But when my husband and I were finished - he was ready to eat dinner! To me - I guess a lot of the issues/problems revolve around the quantities of food being served. In most US restaurants with tasting menus - you're talking about having to consume enormous quantities of food to go from start to finish. And I just never have the slightest idea how to pace myself. So I usually run out of steam completely about half way through (the last tasing menu I had - I ran out of steam before the meat and dessert courses). With a menu that has fewer courses - I can eyeball the general size of the courses - and eat 2/3 or 1/2 of each course if necessary to "save room for dessert" (I'm a big dessert fan). But it's hard to eat half of small courses - or to know how to pace yourself when you're talking about 15 courses as opposed to 5. Note that with the kaiseki meal I ate - you were talking about really teeny tiny courses - no more than a small bite or two in each. One spent more time admiring the composition of the dish than consuming it. I ate the meal in a hotel in Hawaii that catered mostly to Japanese tourists - and - judging from the lack of girth in those patrons - they were used to eating relatively small quantities of food. In more "western" restaurants - I've found that the tasting menu is frequently an exercise in "Supersizing" - albeit over a very large number of smaller dishes. Perhaps if I were a 200 pound guy - I'd find the genre more appealing. Robyn

That's interesting. My husband and I both love sweetbreads - but I can't recall ever having them grilled. I suspect that's because I've never eaten them in a parrillada . Sounds delicious though. And I don't think I'll ever make them myself because I don't think there's anyone who sells them where I live. They will remain an infrequent treat that we eat when we travel. Robyn

I figured La Fromagerie wasn't exactly undiscovered . But we stumbled on it. Late that morning (Sunday) - we went to the open air food market across the street. Just planning to look around and perhaps get some food to eat there. But the market was rather small (although the samples we had were very tasty) - and the only hot food was sausage which wasn't ready. So we went across the street - and "found" La Fromagerie. Sat at one of the small tables - not the long one. Had 2 specials which were sitting in plain view. One was a salad of fresh peas (couldn't get enough fresh peas this visit), asparagus and fennel. The other was a veggie lasagna in phyllo. Both excellent - but not very filling. So we had a small cheese plate. The cheeses were exquisite - absolutely perfect. I am not surprised that the place furnishes cheeses to high end restaurants. I am surprised that I read a message about Tom Aikens serving mediocre cheese - including an unripe Epoisses - because I don't think this place would sell either. With a beer and a glass of wine - lunch came to $80 (about 45 pounds). That's expensive in my book too - but by Sunday we were so shell-shocked by the high restaurant prices in general that it didn't bother us. After we ate - we went shopping on Marylebone High Street (really liked the design stores and was pleasantly surprised that almost everything was open on Sunday). Then we walked to Regent's Park to look at/smell the roses (they were magnificent). Then we walked to Speaker's Corner and listened to everyone dissing the US (which is what we expected). And by the time we got back to the hotel - we figured we had walked off the calories in lunch . It was a very nice lazy Sunday - incorporating much of what I love about London. Robyn

I think perhaps a better phrase than "fine dining" when I'm talking about the Dining Room in Atlanta is world class. And - when I'm talking world class - it doesn't matter where the restaurant is - the southeast specs aren't any different than those anywhere else. Given this context - I think a "B" world class restaurant - which the Dining Room probably is - is usually an excellent place to dine. And it beats out a lot of restaurants I've dined at in places like New York. I don't know much about Mobil ratings - but I looked it up and there are only 13 star restaurants in the US. I've only eaten at 3 - so I don't know enough to comment on that particular rating system. In my opinion - the southeast has a lot of "good eats" - which I generally prefer to mediocre "fine dining" (which I define as $100+ restaurants with kind of ho-hum food). I find that my best eating experiences - no matter where I am - tend to polarize at the ends - "good eats" and "world class". Just an aside about New Orleans. I'm sure this won't make me popular - but I'm not especially fond of most of the food I've eaten there because it has much much too much salt. My husband and I have a code phrase for it - "New Orleans mouth" - which means we wake up in the middle of the night after a meal somewhere and need to chug a liter of water. Robyn

Exactly. Who wants to be stuck with an entire entree that doesn't suit their taste? You seem to negate your argument against tasting menus. On an ALC menu you get to choose. Why would you choose something you don't think you'll like? And if the chef screws up the dish - well that's not a fault on the part of the diner - it's a fault on the part of the chef. I don't think it should be necessary to order 10-20 dishes (however small) at a fine restaurant just to maximize your chances of getting some good ones. All the dishes at a really fine restaurant should be good - with the only variable being the personal preferences of the diner. Of course - this isn't the way things work these days. Used to be that a chef would work half a lifetime perfecting a half dozen dishes - and his restaurant then became a "destination" for those dishes. Today - not many people are happy with the half dozen perfect dishes. They always want something new - something different - something that hasn't been written up in a food magazine yet. So a lot of chefs crank out dozens of half-baked dishes (including the occasional winner) instead of a half dozen perfect ones. I tend to think that this is an unfortunate trend. I don't want to spend $300 and have to eat like a pig (and eating 20 courses - no matter how small - is eating like a pig when you're a small woman) just to get a couple of really good dishes. When I dine at world class places - I want an elegant and delicious meal - start to finish. A meal where I am delighted - entranced and sated - not stuffed. The only caveat I'd throw in here are some chefs are better and happier preparing certain things - and others are better and happier preparing other things. Therefore, I think one would be ill advised patronizing a restaurant where the chef works best with fish when one is in the mood to eat red meat. On the other hand - I am kind of old fashioned. I like the traditional classical French menu idea of a fish course followed by a meat course. And any chef worth his salt ought to be able to produce winners in both categories. Robyn

No problem. I can buy that. The three restaurants where I had better food in London were 1 Michelin 3 star and 2 Michelin 1 stars (and the 1 stars were both new - the 1 star was the first Michelin rating). And they were more in the $300+ plus range (a pound buys roughly what a dollar does - but the pound costs about $1.80). I think the Dining Room compares favorably with what I'd call the "second tier" of fine dining restaurants (which certainly wouldn't include the restaurants you mentioned). So - in that context - B is about right. I haven't found any first tier restaurants in the southeast yet - indeed they are few and far between no matter where you travel. Robyn