robyn

I assume you were on a trip (or have a birthday/anniversary back to back ). Which did you prefer? Or are they simply so different that comparing them head to head doesn't make sense? Robyn

How long a drive is it to French Laundry and Manresa? If any of you have any experiences with it - can a good hotel concierge be helpful with the reservations? I'm not sure we want to do this - but I'd like to get the relevant information - and decide what to do. Robyn ← Both are ~ 45-60 min away from SF, depending on traffic. ← I spoke with my husband at dinner (quick dinner - we're both exhausted from gardening) - and he said if we can't get 4 days of "good eats" in San Francisco - then the world as he knows it has disappeared. So we will just try to "muddle through" in San Francisco . From what I hear some of you saying - we may be happier with the smaller chef-in-the-kitchen places like La Folie - and the ethnic places (I can't emphasize enough that where we live - the Chinese food is - for the most part - inedible - and cuisines like Korean - Vietnamese - Mexican - etc. are non-existent). FWIW - we ate at Per Se on our last trip to New York last year - and - although it was excellent - it wasn't our favorite NY restaurant on that trip. BTW - does your price estimate at Michael Mina include liquor/wine at the high end? My husband doesn't drink at all - and I'm not much of a drinker. Robyn

How long a drive is it to French Laundry and Manresa? If any of you have any experiences with it - can a good hotel concierge be helpful with the reservations? I'm not sure we want to do this - but I'd like to get the relevant information - and decide what to do. Robyn

Re a place like Michael Mina - I have to tell you that the more I read - the more confused I get. Because - quite frankly - I think there are a lot of people on food web sites who are trying to do things other than simply tell other people what they thought about the food in a particular place. Like scoring some kind of psychological points - particularly when they're discussing places that people who aren't exactly their friends have also discussed. I used to take what people write with a few grains of salt - but now I am thinking of throwing away the salt shaker . If I had to guess - I suspect if we eat in Michael Mina - it will be like our dinner at Angela Hartnett at the Connaught in London. A beautiful space - with food that - while not world class - is - like you say - solid. One question about Michael Mina. Our anniversary (our 34th) is 9/10 - a Saturday - a bad night to eat out (and we usually don't eat out - or make a big deal of eating out - on a Saturday). I would like to have a nice meal - but - what is equally important is having a good experience. Not one of these deals where we arrive for a 7:30 reservation - and are told to wait in a crowded noisy bar for an hour while the first seating clears out. For lack of a better phrase - a gracious evening. Do you think Michael Mina is a place where we can find that? Robyn

Was doing some reading today - and perhaps one reason there's a lot of talk about high-end dining in San Francisco is that a lot of chefs seem to playing the restaurant equivalent of musical chairs. Seems there aren't many high-end restaurants where the chef who was there 2 years ago is the chef who's there today. By the way Max - why would you not even try Gary Danko (a lot of people on food sites I've read all seem compelled to try it)? My impression is that perhaps it's ok - but there's nothing about it that spells "San Francisco" to me. Robyn

You New Yorkers never do have enough closet space . Your way probably works fine. The little garlic roaster (which I won at a tennis party grab bag) works fine too. By the way - it's no problem at all in terms of cleaning. Robyn

I try to do some research before I spend my calories (at my age - the calories are frequently more precious than the dollars). And I don't want anyone to get me wrong. When I am writing about a restaurant like Aurora - I'm comparing it to high end restaurants everywhere - New York - London - whatever. It may be the proverbial big fish in the little pond - but when you're a tourist like me - you tend to compare the fish you can catch in different ponds. Applying this standard - although I thought it had its moments - there are quite a few things I think it can do better. Which is why people should do things like go there - and - especially - tell Ron the Pirate what areas you think need improvement. I wrote him a bunch of email detailing what I'd like to see - priority #1 on my part being a decent pastry chef. When I pay $14 for a dessert - I want something excellent. Your #1 priority in terms of gripes may - of course - vary. You also have to remember that although Aurora may charge what seems like a lot of money for Dallas - it's about half the price (give or take a bit) you'd pay for similar meals in world class cities these days (perhaps $200-300 as opposed to $400-600). I have said this before - and I'll say it again. Unless those of us who live in relatively big cities don't try to support the high end restaurants in our cities that are at least trying to do things right - all we'll be left with is Olive Gardens. And I'll include cities like New York and Los Angeles in that statement - because I've had plenty of meals in those cities that are worse than the meal I had at Aurora - in restaurants that are considerably more famous than Aurora. Robyn

Being from a city where Mexican means "Taco Bell" - I don't care what type of Mexican food Manuel's serves. The important thing is that it was good - and I can recommend the place to anyone staying in the downtown area who would like to walk to dinner. I think that perhaps you misconstrued what I said about the Four Seasons. There was nothing bad about it. It just wasn't really terrific. It was perfectly acceptable for what it cost - and I can recommend the place to people who are in the area (I don't think it's worth a big trip to get there). Robyn

Hi Robyn! Thanks for posting your report. I'm just now checking in, so sorry to have not replied sooner. Glad you enjoyed Manuel's. I've always had a pleasant experience there as well. Next time you're in town, you might seek out Curras, Fonda San Miguel or Garibaldis. They are also very good and serve some interior Mexican along with Tex Mex. I'm curious to know more about the dessert you had at The Four Seasons. A friend and I had dessert there the other night and we had a chocolate tres leches cake. Was yours chocolate? I thought it was pretty good, but not the best chocolate dessert ever. Then again, I'm not an expert on tres leches and was already full from dinner. ← I can't remember the tres leches exactly - but I recall that it did have some chocolate - perhaps somewhere near the top (the thought that comes to mind is my saying at dinner that any chef who adds a little chocolate to tres lechces can't be all bad ). However it was predominantly vanilla (like most tres leches). Whatever it was - I recall liking it a lot. But I have a lingering question. A few weeks after I got home - I saw a piece on the Food Network which showcased the pastry chef at the Four Seasons in Austin. The stuff he was making on that piece looked absolutely fabulous. Nothing at all like what I saw the night we were there (what I had was very good - it just didn't look like this stuff at all). And the pastry chef on that piece was a guy - and I have a strong recollection that the pastry chef in the kitchen the night we ate was a woman. Has the pastry chef in that restaurant changed recently? Robyn

I guess it's an amusing visual pun - but it doesn't seem like a really swell dessert (i.e., not one to die for). Was it? How about the apricot tart? Robyn

Catching up on lots of messages. One last one before I hit the sack. What about Quince? I know it doesn't have the reputation a lot of other places have - but it looks interesting. Is the question I asked popular because a lot of people are being disappointed? If so - it wouldn't surprise me. Seems that it's happening in a lot of high-end restaurants in lots of cities. Let's face it - if people are more interested in taking pictures of food than eating it - why should chefs knock themselves out to make stuff taste really good? I think I am on the verge of becoming a foodie Luddite when it comes to restaurants. (Now that I reread this message - it seems like I've written pretty much the same thing before.) Robyn

What's a Luna Pie? Robyn

You can do badly anywhere - including New York City - if you just pick places at random. What are the odds of nailing a terrific Italian restaurant in Little Italy if you pick one at random? I had plenty of random terrible meals in NYC before I decided that random didn't work there. I think you nailed it on the head when you said that people who go to Europe with 5 pounds of restaurant guides don't do any homework when dining outside the larger cities in the US. And there's really no excuse for that these days - because there are so many sources of information about "road eats" on the internet - sites like Holly's - and lots of others. In addition - it's usually a pretty safe bet that you're not going to get terrific food at a restaurant in a small town that specializes in "Continental cuisine" of any flavor (for that matter - it's often hard to get terrific food at a restaurant like that in a big city!). And when you find yourself in a restaurant like that (e.g., my in-laws' favorite restaurant in their home town was such a place - so we wound up there more than we cared to) - the best bet is KISS. A simple steak. A simple common fish (like salmon). A baked potato. BTW - to your list of decent chains - I will add Maggione's - and Black Eyed Pea. Robyn

Ingrid - how are the neighborhoods you mentioned in terms of topography (big hills - little hills - flat?). My husband wears a clunky knee brace - and I don't want him to accuse me of trying to hasten the surgery he'll probably need one day. Note that one reason I'm asking this is that the tourist guide "Let's Go" has a very neat map of the topography of San Francisco. Unfortunately - it doesn't seem to be published annually (it mentions in the current edition that the Ferry Building will be reopened next year). So I couldn't see buying the book. Robyn

No reason I can't do both La Folie and Michael Mina. Remember - I'll have both an anniversary *and* a birthday in San Francisco . And 3 other nights too . Also 4 lunches. I can't eat huge amounts of food - so I'll have to pace the eating. But there are few meals I like better than a plain grilled fish - or some nicely done shellfish - with a salad or some veggies. And meals like that are light. Any recommendations along those lines? What kinds of local fish and shellfish do all of you recommend in San Francisco (I'm sure that since I live in Florida - they'll be totally different than our local favorites - also - I won't eat local oysters and the like these days due to pollution problems with local beds - is that a problem in your part of the world?). What kinds of seasonal produce should I be looking for in September? I suspect you have a traditional summer/early fall growing season - whereas in Florida our growing seasons are basically late fall/winter and spring (not much grows here in the summer - which is how we wound up with so many okra dishes ). Note that we were very impressed by Aqua at the Bellagio. Not at all what we expected from a hotel restaurant - especially in Las Vegas (this was about the time when eating in Las Vegas was just starting to become a "big thing"). So you've pushed me into the "have to go to Michael Mina" camp again. Everyone should be so lucky to have the problem of deciding whether to dine at Michael Mina. Robyn

I would definitely recommend roasting the garlic too. And - for sheer ease of use - I like those little ceramic garlic roasters. They'll only take one head at a time - but they're cheap - and a whole head of garlic ought to be plenty unless she's cooking for a bunch of people. Robyn

The cranky gourmet - just like the cranky consumer in the WSJ. We spent a lot less money than you did (somewhat more than $200 - including the champagne). Perhaps you spent a lot more money on liquor than we did. If we had spent well in excess of $300 for 2 (which is what you spent) - I would have been considerably less pleased. Robyn

Regarding hotels - I had read good things about the Barbara Barry design of the Michael Mina space at the St. Francis. I will probably at least have to drop in to see what the space looks like. And I am starting to have second thoughts about Michael Mina. The situation with hotel restaurants is kind of complicated these days. On the one hand - a lot of hotels are spending huge amounts of money on "high end chef" restaurants. I'm not sure why - because a lot of the restaurants are clearly loss leaders for the hotels. And - when the places are good - like the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton in Buckhead (at least under Bruno Menard - who just left) - or L'Escalier at the Breakers in Palm Beach - they are very very good. But when the chef is just a name - as opposed to a presence in the kitchen - like Norman's at the Ritz Carlton in Orlando - well the results are a lot less predictable (and frequently inferior). I know that I prefer to have restaurants where the named chef is in the kitchen - or where the executive chef is so well-trained in the ways of the named chef that it doesn't make a difference. So I wonder what category Michael Mina falls into. By the way - Hotel Vitale is run by a group called Joie de Vive Hospitality - which has a lot of properties in San Francisco. The couple I looked at seemed similar to the W chain (in terms of concept and the age group it was trying to attract - which isn't my age group ). Clearly worth investigating if you're a planning a trip. I was looking at the higher end properties - and - frankly - a lot of the write-ups were extremely disappointing. Perhaps it's a result of the tech bust - but I kept running across phrases like "tired" - "needs renovations" - etc. Finally settled on the Four Seasons - which is one of the newest properties (and perhaps the only new supposedly luxury hotel). It's relatively new (2001) - decent location - and seems to have a nice health club (which my husband appreciates). I'll let you know how it goes. For those of you planning a trip to San Francisco (or anywhere else for that matter) - Four Seasons is running a buy 2 nights - stay 1 night free until Labor Day Weekend at a lot of its properties - including San Francisco and Miami (we're going to Miami next month). Good deal in my opinion (and in Miami - there's even a stay 1 weekend night - get 1 weekend night free option). I also found it pretty easy to get FF air tickets on Delta (main flight is from Atlanta to SFO). I keep hearing about how this summer is supposed to be a bang-up travel season - and I'm not so sure I evidence of those predictions yet. Robyn

Thanks a lot for this artful combination of food and design . I'll have to sit down with a map and start mapping out where these places are - what other things are close to them - and which restaurants are nearby. I bought a Zagat's today. I don't trust the reviews in general - but I love the way it organizes restaurants by neighborhood. Have had many a good lunch as a result of carrying Zagat's around. Without it - I wouldn't necessarily know that a good place was just 2 blocks away from a museum/store etc. By the way - is there any area of town that has a concentration of design stores - like Wilshire Boulverad in LA - or the street near the water (forget the name) in Seattle? Or are they just scattered here and there? I take it from your comment about Chinatown that it has gone downhill. Aren't there even any good dim sum places left ? Or are they somewhere else - like in the suburbs - which is what has happened to a lot of "Chinatowns" in other cities as the Chinese population has grown more prosperous? Robyn

I'll note that high end doesn't mean high-priced in my opinion. It's the quality of the food - not the amount of the bill - that counts. Lunch options are great (I don't eat breakfast and am always up for a terrific lunch). Robyn P.S. I love contemporary design - and San Francisco is one of the design meccas in the US. If any of you have some local places to recommend - and you can work them into a food thread - I'd appreciate the suggestions. Robyn

I want to make 3 points that haven't been made. I am not a doctor - but I have a reasonable degree of medical knowledge for a lay person. I know enough to know what I don't know. (And I apologize in advance if some of what I say is blunt or in any way offensive.) My first point is that specific neurological problems can be very difficult to diagnose - both in terms of what they are - and in terms of what caused them. It is entirely possible that what your wife has wasn't caused by her surgery - but is the result of something else (and - indeed - you haven't said that the doctors have said that the bypass surgery caused her current condition). Doesn't mean that her treatment will necessarily be different (it's said that there are 200 neurological diseases and only 3 can be cured) - but it might be. Therefore - although I'm sure you have confidence in your doctors - I would get a second opinion concerning her condition at a major medical center with an excellent neurology department. If this involves travel - so be it (we went to Mayo in Rochester a couple of years ago just to get a consult with one of the best heart valve surgeons in the country - it was money well spent). The second is that if your wife is a candidate for rehabilitative therapy (which I assume she is from your message) - it is very difficult to get the best care (which is very intensive) at home. Therefore I suggest looking at the best rehab places you can find (my father-in-law had fabulous rehab following a bad stroke - and the rehab people were able to bring him back to about 80% of normal - which was kind of a miracle in our opinion). I am not sure whether speed is of the essence in terms of therapy for your wife's condition. I know it is in the case of stroke victims (they usually get back most of whatever they're going to get back within about 6 months or so). This is something you ought to discuss with your doctors. The third is that while the internet is terrific for certain things - in the medical area - it leads people to think they know as much as doctors. I have a cartoon on my bulletin board - it's one doctor talking to another - and he says "With the internet, my patients come self-diagnosed, have second opinions and already belong to a support group." Don't use the internet as a substitute for getting the best medical providers you can get for your wife. And once you get those medical providers - listen to them - and forget about trying to "play doctor". My husband may need back surgery - and everyone in the world seems to have an opinion about that ("I read all about this on the internet" and "you want minimally invasive surgery" - or "you want an artificial disk" - etc.). When we were sitting face to face with an excellent neurosurgeon - discussing our options - we realized that all of these opinions from a bunch of lay people - although well-intentioned - were nonsense. I wish you best of luck in this difficult quest. Robyn P.S. I spoke with my husband this evening. He's a lay person who knows more about medicine than I do (he's a retired medical malpractice lawyer). He has heard the University of Alabama Medical facility (which I believe is in Birmingham) spoken about in good terms. So that's a place where you might start in terms in getting that second opinion. And if you get into the neurology stuff - well it's useful to be able to deal with ambiguity. There's not a whole lot that's cut and dry in neurology (as opposed - for example - to having blocked coronary arteries and getting a bypass). Just find good doctors you trust - and listen to them.

This post could not be more accurate. The BEST food available in SF right now is not offered in the high end establishments, much better in the places that the locals frequent. But, if I were to suggest an aniversary spot, it would be at the Fifth Floor in the Hotel Palimar, if for no other reason than that Melissa Perello deserves an opportunity to show you what she can do. http://www.hotelpalomar.com/5thFloorDining.html http://www.fifthfloor.citysearch.com/ ← Which places do all of you like that fall into the category of "simple fare" "local produce" that "the locals frequent"? To make things easier - I'll limit things to certain areas in the city proper. Don't know everywhere we'll be as of today - and I don't know the names of various neighborhoods - but I know the hotel is near Union Square - I want to see a design store called Limn which is on Townsend near SBC Park (as well as other local design stores) - and we'll be spending at least a little time at the food market. Robyn

I took a look at the La Folie website - and it looked terrific. Made a reservation. Haven't looked at the other websites yet. Five nights might not be enough . By the way - I noticed that there is some kind of "Opera in the Park" festival that weekend. Have any of you been? Is it merely crowded (which is kind of the norm for city festivals) - or ridiculously crowded (I once went to a street festival in Montreal where the streets were so crowded that it was dangerous). Robyn

Boy - I thought I wrote this up weeks ago. Guess I didn't - because I couldn't find a message. Anyway - I'm glad I checked before I threw my notes away. We spent 3 nights and 2 days in Austin last month. In addition to our trip to Lockhart (which I wrote up in a separate thread) - we had some good eating. The night we arrived we ate at Manuel's. I don't know if this is authentic "interior Mexican food" - but it was excellent and we liked this restaurant a lot. Decor was pleasant - somewhat trendy - and the place was packed. We had the camarones fritos (fried shrimp) and enchiladas de mole. Started with the corn soup. And ended with the budin de chocolate (bitter-sweet chocolate bread pudding) - which was fantastic. Only problem was a false start with the soup. We originally ordered a chile soup - and - although we're not wimps - it was inedibly hot - kind of like what you get when you order Indian food "hot" in London. So we sent it back (no problem) - and got the corn soup instead. The fellow at the front said the chiles varied in terms of heat intensity - so one night the soup would be very hot - the next night not so hot. The next night we ate at Threadgills (figured we had to do at least one "music night"). The outdoor venue was pleasant. But the music was mediocre - and so was the food. This was the day we had lunch at Lockhart - so to counter all that BBQ - we had veggies. I'm not sure how Texas veggies are supposed to taste - but southern veggies (even the ones we get in a Piccadilly cafeteria) are better. Still it was fun getting a little sampling of the Austin music experience. Our last day - we had lunch at (don't laugh) the new Whole Foods Market near downtown. This is the most amazing grocery store I've ever seen. It is huge. And it has tons of things to buy - including many you'd be hard-pressed to find anywhere else - everything from fresh porcini mushrooms to Anson grits. Whole Foods' gift to Austin for giving it its start. It has little serving areas with stools where you can order different kinds of cooked food - everything from seafood to pasta. As well as many "prepare your own meal from pre-made things and dine outside" areas. We had some chowder - and some scallops sauteed in Wasabi butter (which came with an orzo/baby spinach salad). The scallops were excellent. Had some home dipped chocolates (fresh berries in chocolate) for dessert. Another winner. I think that half of downtown Austin was eating lunch there with us. We had dinner at the Cafe at the Four Seasons - which is pretty fancy. I think the gist of this dinner is that the dishes were well thought out - but I'd have to rate the executions about a B comparing the place to other high end restaurants in other cities (except for the dessert - the pastry chef's riff on a Tres Leches - which was a solid A). My husband and I each had a starter (I had quail in mole sauce - he had escargot ravioli - and a soup (I had the 10-15 vidalia onion and he had the cold corn). We shared a main course - the veggie platter - which I thought made excellent use of local ingredients and southwest cooking concepts. And the kitchen made the effort to split the main course into 2 little tasting plates. Very attractive presentation. Like I said - overall - a solid B. Anyway - that was our eating in Austin. We had a great time - and I hope the rest of you will share your recent experiences. Robyn

I’m a bit tardy in writing up these recollections of Dallas restaurants. But when we got home from Texas - we started closing out my father-in-law's estate - and that - along with our day-to-day stuff - has gotten me way way behind in things like reading/writing on eGullet. Better late than never. We ate at Aurora our last night in Dallas. The chef/owner – Avner Samuel – has more than a little bit going on in the “restaurant history gossip department” in Dallas. But – since I don’t live in Dallas – it’s no concern of mine. Aurora is the best restaurant we dined at in Dallas. Better than York Street. Of course – it aspires to more – and costs more – so I hold it to higher standards. And – considering those standards – there is good news – and bad news. Bad news first. The dessert we had was mediocre (which is awful considering that it cost $14 – which is a world class price for dessert).. It was some kind of berry (I recall raspberry) tart thing. Just sitting alone on a big plate. Boring. Just blah. And the pastry wasn't delicate and flaky. Seemed like perhaps it had seen the inside of a refrigerator at some point. I am a big dessert fan - and this was a disappointing way to end the meal. So the pastry chef end of things needs work. There weren't any dessert "throw aways" - so I don't know if the pastry chef – if indeed there is one - is capable of doing better. The best thing was the butter poached lobster. Terrific. Now I am a lobster fan - but my husband isn't. And even he agreed it was to die for. Which - at $65 a la carte - it should be :). We both agreed it was the best lobster we ever had. My husband's main was the sole wrapped around scallop. He thought it was pretty good - but nowhere near as good as the lobster - and the sole really didn't play a prominent enough part in the dish. The starters weren't memorable - although I recall us liking them at the time. I say not memorable because - even looking at the menu - I couldn't remember what I had. I did remember that my husband had the yellow tomato soup (I remembered the yellow) - but he couldn't pick his starter out of the menu lineup. I didn't remember what I had - although it turns out from looking at the credit card bill that I had the porcini ravioli. I suspect both of these starters need something to "punch them up" - to make people like me remember them. To turn them from good into memorable. For example - we had a lobster bisque at David Burke & Donatella in New York. Wasn't the greatest lobster bisque in the world - but we won't forget the dish because it had a (delicious) lobster roll sticking out of it when it was presented. The presentation made it memorable. I suspect making things memorable is important at this price point. As for alcohol - my husband doesn't drink - and I'm not a big drinker. I don't drink still wine. So I had a half bottle of Vueve - which I like. It was a little overpriced at $45 - but not enough to make me mad. I don't think it was on the wine list - but I saw it in the wine cooler - and asked for it. I recall that the server tried to interest me in something else - but I know I like Veuve - so I ordered it. The service was fine. Somewhat but not too friendly. Relatively unobtrusive. Just right. I liked the service of the dishes with bells. It's a bit old fashioned these days - but I am old enough to recall when it was common - especially in France. I liked it then - and I still like it now. I liked the room - and the open kitchen - although things were a little dead (we ate on a Monday). All in all – I thought this was a very good restaurant that – with a bit of effort – could do better. At its best – it’s on a par with restaurants in much more cosmopolitan cities. At its worst – well there are no excuses for that (especially in the dessert area). Doesn’t seem fair to impose higher standards on better restaurants. But – when I see a place like this – with so much potential - I have a desire to see it operating at 100% – not 80%. I don't like to discourage people from eating at high end restaurants in smaller cities (like Dallas) that are doing a really good job - even if their efforts wouldn't get them 3 stars in the New York Times. There are just too many kitchens out there that aren't even trying - and I refuse to 86 a place that is trying. So go to Aurora – enjoy the world class dishes like the lobster - and complain about the areas where it doesn’t shine. Because - with a bit of effort – I think this could be a really fabulous restaurant. Note that I live in a relatively small city (Jacksonville FL) - and I wish we had even one chef who was capable of trying to do what Aurora is doing (but we don't). Robyn