robyn

A genuine question - not being antagonistic here - I'm fairly young and am still learning about culinary history. But when I was coming up in England, Trotter was one of the few American chefs that I was aware of. If he is only of importance in the context of Chicago (a city I had very little awareness of), how has he reached such a level of fame? Is it purely a PR thing? ← Not a single drop of antagonism taken. I'm 35 going on 36. I grew up in Los Angeles. I have a life long interest in food and dining out. It was a bit of a family joke, "what is she going to with this." It came as no surprise to them when I married a French Chef. I didn't mean to imply that he is only important in the context of Chicago, I meant that if he is a revolutionary figure for the reasons stated in that one paragraph that I quoted from the article it would be in Chicago or to put it another way it wouldn't be in California or New York. And he most certainly wasn't an instigating force in 'lighter' sauces over those with cream or butter. I have no idea why Trotter is so famous. I'm open to being enlightened. ← OK - you were 17 in 1987. I was 40. I remember eating in the US in the 80's. Give me examples of chefs in the US in the 80's who were more "progressive" than Trotter (there were some - but it's not as if he was 20 years behind the times in terms of the US). Robyn

Costco carried what you're talking about (t's 3 bags of the mix in a single pckage). Then it discontinued it. Now it's back. Robyn

My maternal grandmother came to this country alone when she was about 13. In about 1905. Her older sister was supposed to come. She had all the papers. But she got "cold feet". So my grandmother left. Her family was Orthodox Jewish - and she didn't want to have her head shaved. My grandmother left all of her family behind and never saw them again. She had a lot of brothers and sisters. Some died of natural causes - like flu - but of those remaining - all except one died in the Holocaust. I'm pretty sure my grandmother never saw that sister again - she wound up in Israel. But my mother and I both met her children (and some of their children) - some live in Israel - some live in Texas. She got married to another immigrant who arrived a few years after she did. They became American citizens when he joined the Army in WWI. My grandfather was a garment worker (also a compulsive gambler although he certainly couldn't afford it!) - my grandmother was a housewife who tried to make do without much money. They had 2 children (my mother and uncle). Both children went to college despite tough times (Depression - etc.). My grandfather died pretty young (59). My grandmother died at about age 80. Like millions and millions of immigrants - nothing extraordinary about their lives (or the lives of my other grandparents - also immigrants). The most moving experience I can remember about them was going to the Ellis Island Museum in New York. Thought it would be a yawn - and wound up spending half a day there. You think what you have is unique - just yours. And you see that it's an experience that's been replicated millions of times - down to the items people brought with them (from Bibles to baking pans). Simply overwhelming. It's a great place to explore American history - and I highly recommend it - whether your family came here 300 years ago - or 3 years ago (or has been here forever). Robyn

Technically this isn't a kitchen item. It's the metal cup my grandmother used to get water on the boat when she was emigrating from Europe to the United States. I also have the silver spoons her mother sewed in her skirt to use in case she needed "money". Robyn

I was going to post a picture - but the way I used to post them doesn't seem to work any more (haven't posted a picture in a long time). Keep getting an error message that my domain extension from Image Gullet is invalid. Any ideas? Robyn

You can get in? PF Chang's opened here in Jacksonville last month. There's usually a 2-3 hour wait for dinner - and an hour+ wait for lunch unless you get there at 11 am. You won't find me eating there anytime soon (think the only thing I'll wait that long for is life or death medical care). Robyn

Has Golden Triangle dining deteriorated in the last 5 - 10 years? Reason I ask is my husband and I used to make regular trips there (my in-laws lived in Southern Pines - and we always spent a night or two in the Golden Triangle to decompress after visiting them). That's how we wound up dining in places like Crook's Corner . As for places like New York - and ethnic dining - well we used to "wing it" in ethnic places in cities like New York - and encountered so much lousy food that when we go there now - everything is pre-researched and pre-booked - and - much more often than not - pretty high end. And another thing. I've never had a friend in New York cook for me. The couple of friends we have in the Golden Triangle are accomplished in regional cuisine. I'd rather eat at their houses than at most restaurants in either city! Robyn

We're going on our first cruise in September (Radisson). I'll let you know. Robyn

To go one step further - I've never had salmon here in the east that's anywhere as good as what I get in restaurants in the Pacific northwest. Doesn't mean I won't eat it here. It's just that I consider it a regional delicacy when I'm in places like British Columbia. Robyn

You're comparing big apples and oranges. The population of the NY metro area is 20+ million. The Triangle is about 1+ million. At least you have something to be thankful for - you'll get a better education at Duke than you would at 95% of the colleges in the US. Robyn (not from NC)

I can't speak for anywhere else. But we buy most of our fish here in Florida at Publix. It is labeled very carefully (fresh - frozen - farm-raised - wild - Florida - US - non-US - color added - no color added - etc. - etc.). Salmon is - of course - not local to us. And the farm raised is about $5/pound - wild $15/pound (prices drop during sales). I'm not sure that the wild is better. It is different. But - I like salmon - eat it often - and - most of the time - prefer to spend the $5/pound bargain price for the farm raised stuff. Robyn

Great point. There's food - and then there's Food. And different people have different opportunities to sample various kinds in various places - at various points in their lives - and from time to time in their everyday lives. My husband and I could never afford big deal places in Philadelphia when we lived there (we were DA's - too poor). But - later - we made more money - and could experience a lot of fabulous restaurants in a lot of different cities/countries. But do we eat like that every day? No. And do we say - if it's not 3 star Michelin - or the best undiscovered BBQ in the southeast - we'll stay home and never go out? Of course not. Dining has a lot to do with socializing - with friends - and family - even just a spouse or SO. Sitting for a few hours - letting someone else do the work - so you can talk and relax. I think there's a lot of room for all kinds of restaurants in one's life. Although I would like the food to be more than mediocre - I'm not embarrassed about eating a meal at Per Se in New York - and then a meal at Maggiano's at home. Two totally different kinds of places. But each has its place. Just like evening clothes and jeans. Robyn

Wow - that's interesting news. When we were in Miami last spring - we tried both Mundo and Pescado. I wrote relatively mixed reviews here. But we had decent meals. Didn't see them coming and going in a heartbeat. I haven't been to Chispa either. Was mentioned to me as good - but basically meat and pork - and more meat and more pork. Not my idea of a great meal in Miami when it's 85 outside. You know something. I lived in Miami for over 20 years - and went through enough incarnations and reincarnations of everything to think that it wasn't particularly a destination restaurant kind of place (except perhaps for the South Beach places and the crowd that manages to tolerate their high priced mediocre food served with lots of "attitude"). And this reinforces my impression. But I'll keep looking - if for no other reason than I go to Miami once year to visit my accountant <smile>. Robyn

Ecruz - Have you tried Ola? I haven't - but it's on my "to-do" list in Miami. That would be on my radar screen if I were staying at the Four Seasons and taking cabs. Acqua (at the Four Seasons) wouldn't be on my radar screen. Have you been there? BTW to Jason - not much reason to take a cab from Brickell Avenue to Hollywood and back for stone crabs. That's a pretty hefty cab bill - especially when Joe's is a lot closer. BTW to Hazardnc - Unless Miami cabs have improved a whole lot since I lived there - they are kind of dreadful. Not all that clean - or all that air-conditioned - and - most of the time - the drivers don't speak much English or know where they're going. I'd definitely check out a transportation service (like Carey) before taking a long cab ride in Miami. Also note that travel distances and travel times can be quite daunting in the Miami Metro area. The Metrorail doesn't run that often at night. To the extent that people use it - they use it mostly for commuting to work - or special events. I would also check out the restaurants in Merrick Park (relatively new upscale outdoor type mall with independent restaurants like Mundo) and establishments in Coral Gables. There are some pretty good restaurants there. Perhaps not the best stone crabs - or ethnic Cuban - but I frankly can't see driving or taking huge cab rides to get either crabs or Cuban food. I usually stay at the Ritz Carlton in Coconut Grove (it's close to where I have to do business) - and I usually wind up eating a lot of meals in Coral Gables due to its proximity to Coconut Grove. Since I won't stand on line at Joe's - if I can't do take-out at a friend's house - I don't do it. Robyn

Interesting post... I must admit that I do look down my nose at most, though not all chains (especially those of the Applebee's type), but b/c I'm the mom of a toddler, we do end up at them occasionally. It also might be due to the fact that we live in Toledo. I have to say though, that I truly despise Red Lobster. I just can't find anything there that I like! I was dragged there by a client a few months ago, and overheard the funniest interaction. Well, it was funny to me, though some probably think I'm an ass for finding it funny. My client bumped into someone he knew, and said, "Hey, how are you doing?" The acquaintance replied, "Well, I'm alive and I'm at Red Lobster. What more could you want?" I raced to my car to call my husband and relay the interaction. It just cracked me up. ← I think Red Lobsters are very variable. I've only eaten at 3 (one in Daytona Beach when we're passing through on I-95) - and 2 near my father-in-law's nursing home here in Jacksonville. The one in Daytona is much better than the 2 in Jacksonville - and one in Jacksonville was a fair amount better than the other. Note that although we don't have lots of experience - I'm comparing apples with apples since I tend to eat the same 1 or 2 dishes all the time. Robyn

If you look carefully - you'll see that this thread was dormant for about a year until I revived it with my "review" of Maggiano's (I wrote about it - not Holly Moore). I'm impressed with your opinion about it - because - from what I can recall about my years living in Philadelphia - there were a lot of really good family Italian restaurants there (which isn't the case in Jacksonville FL - where I now live). Of course - that was a long time ago (30+ years). I have no idea what's going on in Philadelphia these days (except some people my husband and I worked with in the DA's office have gone on to bigger and better things). Robyn

Well the New York Times had an op-ed piece on this today. Pretty much sided with Trotter. You can read it here - New York Times on line by free subscription. Robyn

You know - one thing this thread made me do was look up the Chef's restaurants on their web sites. I thought the Tru website was kind of interesting. First off - I didn't know Tru was part of Lettuce Entertain You. I guess that's neither here nor there - except that Lettuce Entertain You is a big force in Chicago dining. I suspect it spends a lot of advertising dollars too. Second - I was kind of amused looking at the menus at Tru. OK - the grand tasting menu has a cold foie gras terrine. But the seafood tasting menu has a seared foie gras dish. I think if I ordered a seafood tasting menu - I wouldn't expect foie gras. I know ducks sometimes paddle in water - but that doesn't make them seafood. So Trotter has foie gras in his restaurant at a charity gig when maybe he made noises that he doesn't serve it. And Tramonto thinks it's a fish (or - in all probability - he just thinks that people who spend a lot of money - no matter what they order - want to have some foie gras to justify the hefty bill). I haven't been to Chicago in 3 years - but neither restaurant is on my "hot" radar screen right now - although a place like Green Zebra is. Perhaps this is an "I don't care what they say about me as long as my name is in the news" dispute between 2 somewhat dated chefs aided and abetted by an obliging reporter. I think it's time to move on to more important things. Like who's spending time in Chicago kitchens - and cooking up new inventive delicious stuff (sorry - the plexiglass staircase with caviar on the Tru website doesn't do it for me). Robyn

Doesn't sound so bad to me. But what's so much better about independent restaurant food? Lots of fried stuff - grease - cream sauces - fatty meats - oversalting. The people who eschew chain food will go into ecstasy over food of similar or worse nutritional content that isn't chain food. Now I don't mind an occasional treat when it comes to a restaurant meal (in terms of taste totally trumping nutrition). But I eat probably 7 restaurant meals a week - and I can't eat like that all the time. And if I can find decent reasonably healthy food at a decent price for everyday restaurant meals - I don't care whether the place is an independent - or part of a chain. Robyn

I wish we had a Legal Seafoods here. I eat at the one in Boca Raton at least a couple of times a year (when we're in the area) - and I love it. Because I am a great fan of fresh grilled fish in simple preparations. It is incredibly difficult to find a middle of the road independent restaurant in Florida that serves good fresh grilled fish. Robyn

So does Chef Boyardee. ← A new mall opened here last month in Jacksonville and we got a bunch of the high end chains. Cheesecake Factory - PF Changs - Maggiano's etc. We were planning to have lunch at PF Chang's - but when we got there at noon - we were told the wait was 90 minutes. So we tried Maggiano's (which I frankly hadn't heard of before). I had the whole roasted chicken. $10.95 for a whole roasted chicken! - with a rosemary lemon butter sauce - plus a side of pasta (took home more than half of the chicken for chicken salad). The chicken was - frankly - excellent. I wouldn't have been upset to have it at a bistro in New York. The pasta was nice - although the sauce was a bit dull. The bread was fabulous - it comes from a good local commercial bakery (I asked). It's the same bread that's served at the higher end restaurants in Jacksonville where you'll easily spend over $100 for 2 for dinner. My husband had a sausage and pepper sandwich. Very good also - on excellent bread. Came with a huge bowl of minestrone soup - tasty and not oversalted. This for $8.95. Everything served in pleasant - albeit outdoor mall terrace type - surroundings. I don't know whether this meal is typical of the chain. But - if it is - I think independent restaurants should be afraid - very afraid. I haven't had a good simple meal like this in a mid-priced independent restaurant here in a long time. By the way - I was impressed that the restaurant served a big half lemon with the chicken. Lemons are very expensive these days. In fact - at many middle of the road independents - they're giving you wedges of lime instead of lemon with your iced tea (until you complain) because they're too cheap to spend the money for lemons. Robyn

You've really asked 2 different questions. One about meat and threes - another about cafeterias. As for cafeterias - I think most Piccadilly's in the south answer your question. We eat at Piccadilly at home - and on the road if there's one in the general vicinity at lunch time. Note that Piccadilly bought Morrisons a while back (it was the other major cafeteria chain here). We've also found some Western Sizzlin' restaurants in the south that do a nice job of "southern cafeteria food". The one that comes to mind immediately is the one in Pooler Georgia (a couple of miles off I-95). By the way - I think roasts and offal would be far down on the list of meat courses I'd expect to find at a meat and three. Except perhaps on Sunday. Roasts would be more common at cafeterias - or places like Holiday House (a Florida meat and three/cafeteria style small chain). At Holiday House - you can get a roast - or turkey - every day. The one I'm most familiar with is the one in Deland, Florida - and I understand it's better than other Holiday Houses. Robyn

I have 2 thoughts. First - what does your wife look like - and what does she want to look like. There are some women I know who started out thin in life and want to stay that way. It gets harder and harder to do as you age - because your metabolism slows. I have one cousin who still looks like a model at almost 60 - but the only way she can do it is by eating next to nothing. Then there are people like me - kind of in the middle - or perhaps with a few extra pounds - but if we don't watch it - especially as we age - we'll wind up buying all our clothes in the "women's department" (2X-3X). I don't want to do that. And I'm sure I have lots of company. So I have to watch it. I once put on about 15 extra pounds (quite a few years ago) - and it took a year of almost nothing but grilled chicken breasts to get it off. I note that it helps if the other people in your household share your metabolism. My husband is just like me. If he doesn't watch it - he'll be shopping in the "portly" department. So we're pretty careful about our diets a lot of the time - and we pick our indulgences carefully (and they're not always the same indulgences). My brother and his wife do not share metabolisms (he's prone to pack on pounds and she isn't). She's the main cook. He used to be thin - and I'd say he's now at least 40 pounds overweight. If your wife is obese - well that's the subject of a whole 'nother thread (or threads). Or personal sessions with professionals. Brings up lots of psychological issues. By the way - you don't have to answer these questions. Just think about them. Second - in terms of going over your list - the pasta with pesto thing stuck out. My husband and I love pasta - and we love pesto. I make it fresh during the summer. Eaten in moderation and without gobs of heavy cream sauces - pasta is great. And you can throw veggies into pasta - serve salads with it - etc. Learn to make it fresh if you have the time - get your wife and children involved in the process. If you don't have the time - buy it in the store. There are literally a zillion sauces for pasta - everything from olive oil and garlic to complex meat ragus. And that's just on the Italian side. There are Asian noodle dishes as well. So maybe this is an area you can explore - have fun with - and make everyone happy. Robyn

Thanks for the information. Then perhaps I have eaten them. I have had some delicious braised meat dishes in various restaurants over the years. I really don't care if they're healthy or not - I put this kind of food in the "occasional treat" category. E.g., when I cook steaks at home (perhaps once or twice a month) - I use ribeyes. I guess now that I think a bit about it - I just don't like the texture of hunks of braised (i.e., non-crispy) fat. But I'm ready to shoot anyone who takes the crispy skin off of one of my turkeys and handles it in any manner which would make it soggy. Robyn

Here's a picture of raw short ribs - along with the nutritional information. Perhaps all short ribs don't look like this - but - if they do - I don't think I've ever eaten them. My plate would be a pile of little pieces of fat after - and my plate usually doesn't look like that in FD restaurants . The closest thing I make at home that's like this is brisket. A couple of times a year for holidays. It has a bunch of fat. Even after cooking and cooling and skimming and reheating. But the fat is usually pretty big chunks that can be cut off. When I'm through eating - my plate is full of pieces of fat. Perhaps someone who knows more about animal anatomy can help me out a bit. Are there similar cuts of meat that have less internal fat? I think unhealthy is unhealthy If you look at the nutritional information on this website - well it's dreadful. And that's probably for a 4 - perhaps 6 - ounce - serving. On the other hand - I'm not rigid about eating all the time. I do eat things that are quite awful to eat. As an occasional treat. And when I eat them - I want them to be the best. I don't want to waste the calories. So that rules out fast-food-junk-food stuff. Robyn