jo-mel
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"~~~~~ I usually went for egg rolls, spare ribs, lobsters (when mom and dad were feeling flush), and when it was chow mein time, if I ordered it, it was subgum style - which was really more like diced chicken with almonds than chow mein."~~~~~~
Hee Hee ! Sounds like Boston's Chinatown when I was a kid, and when we made excursions into exotica. I can remember the smells on those narrow streets waaaayyyy back then in the late 30's, early 40's. This was before that new dish - MooGooGaiPan made it on the scene for us DaBiZis.
That also is the Chow Mein that my canned Dinty Moore Beef Stew, loving husband likes, complete with crispy CANNED noodles. When I try to get him into the non-Western version, he eats it, but with less gusto.
One woman I knew wanted me to try a terrific restaurant that she liked. It was where, she said, 'the chow mein had nice soft vegetables --just the way she liked it!' ARGGHHHHH!
But I know what you mean about the celery,onion,beansprout combo. It's almost like comfort food ----almost
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GarySoup -- That beautiful picture of your DW loving cooking is worthy of a magazine spread!
This is a wonderful web page, and thread. I'm delighted to hear from people who know something beyond Sesame Chicken and General Anything. Who know first-hand the wide variety of choices in this wonderful cuisine (My biggest problem is my own Chicken Chow Mein loving DH!!!) He only travelled with me -- once. Maybe that was a good thing!)
Two more isolated memories come to mind. (oops, make that three)
I absolutely love eating and making Zha Cai Rou Si Tang ---Shredded Pork and Sichuan Vegetable Soup, but the most tasty was in a Holiday Inn (of all places) in ChongQing. It was a special dining room, and the soup's base had so much flavor, that it was incredible! The pork and pickle were perfect, but that broth----------!!
Back in the US - in San Francisco on Grant Street - I was alone, so I had no one to share the experience of SandyPot Chicken and Chinese Sausage at ??Hong Bow???? The meats fused beautifully, but the gravy was so tasty that I had to ask for another bowl of rice to wipe up the last mouthful. That was the first time I'd had that dish. I've made it many times, but the first time was best!
Back in China - Beijing and street stall restaurants. Another time as a student. Every morning before classes started, I bought 2 tea eggs and some delicious, juicy,steamed dumplings at this busy sidewalk place, and took them to a quiet garden with a bower of vines, chirping sparrows, and benches. It was behind a wall, ajacent to the street and was a peaceful nook away from the bustling street. I ate my breakfast there with my thermos of instant coffee and was at peace with the world. I can go back, in my mind, and relive those moments -----they were that peaceful - and tasty,. To this day, I love dumplings and tea eggs with coffee!
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When ever I've been in China, I've written down all the menus I've had for breakfast, lunch, dinner or snacks --along with some comments, so I have good records of what and where. Problem is, I am not at home, so I can't give credit as to the restaurant.
However, a couple that immediately come to mind---
A horrible little place near the Beijing Language Institute, that was crowded, had a surly waitress with a dirty dish cloth, and you could hear people hawking and spitting IN THE RESTAURANT! A very nice couple, near my roommate and me, (I was a student in my 50's at the time) said the Salt/Pepper Shrimp were good.
Good? They were outstanding, with a wonderful incredible crispy shell, but juicy and tender inside. I've had them many times, but those were the best and most memorable.
Again in China --- on a train station platform in WuXi --- WuXi Ribs (what else?) Mostly bone and gristle, but what wonderful tender, juicy meat in between the bones, and a perfect sauce. Finger licking good! They were my first WuXi Ribs and they still have been the best.
Also Eastern China -- Deep/fried Baited Whitefish. Thought they were french fried onions shreds and we ordered a second order. Then I remembered that this area was famous for their Baited Whitefish. I looked a little more closely at the 'onions' and saw two little eyes. Yep these were the famous fish - tiny and whole. -------and delicious! LOL!
This is a fun thread! I'm enjoying what others have eaten and where.
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Gads!! Sooooo many eating experiences to choose from!! Soooo many vignettes come to mind!! This will take a moment or two!
CHENGDUDE ---- When I first saw your name, I thought ----Chengdu de, and wondered what you were trying to say. It just dawned on me!!!!! Clever!!! (I'm a little slow)
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Ben Hong -- I didn't understand the 'quote box' function, either, until slkinsey sent me the following. (I've got a few years on you, and techie stuff wasn't my bag --- but I'm learning.) When I don't want the entire 'quote', I simply delete what is extra, from the draft, or use the quote tags.
From slkinsey:
There are two ways you can do it:
#1 hit the "quote" button to quote the post to which you are responding.
#2 copy the section that you want to quote and bracket it with QUOTE tags, like this:
[QUOTE]Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Donec luctus feugiat mi. Vivamus malesuada, libero eu posuere pellentesque, mi dolor laoreet ipsum, at tincidunt mi tortor ac felis. Cras gravida dolor in nulla. Fusce adipiscing ligula vel erat. Nunc metus nulla, placerat id, vestibulum sit amet, bibendum et, magna. Aliquam justo purus, luctus et, suscipit eu, adipiscing in, pede. Donec nonummy accumsan ante. Nam nibh augue, vehicula vel, ornare in, rhoncus et, lorem. Proin aliquet luctus ligula. Nullam felis massa, ullamcorper in, auctor nec, iaculis vel, quam. Cras tempus. Praesent tincidunt varius elit.[/QUOTE]
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I need a new map of where Xinhui, Taishan, and etc. are relative to the Pearl River. Or, I need to actually look at the map i have buried somewhere.
Just a guestimate looking at my 80's National Geog.map -----Xinhua appears to be about 10 miles, and Taishan about 25 in a line, due West, from the Pearl River.
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Rhoda Yee's "Dim Sum" book is almost getting too dog eared to use now
.LOL! You described my copy, which is held together with industrial tape!!
Sometimes some of my less well-known books give me something that is priceless to me. Just one recipe, and the book has a special place on the shelf.
For example, a little booklet by Cecilia J. Au-Yeung's Chopsticks Recipes and Chinese Casseroles has a steamed rice dish 'Garlic Rice' which combines regular white rice with glutinous rice. It is a rice that can stand by itself.
Another is Nobuko Sakamoto's The People's Republic of China Cookbook. This one gave me Copper Well Street Plain Noodles. A wonderful plain noodle dish (that uses Sichuan peppercorns!) I've since seen it in another book, but I still have allegiance to the first time I found it.
Both books have other great recipes, but those 2 dishes stand out.
I'm making me hungry!!
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Ben - does this "doo soo" (haven't figured out the Cantonese intonation of it yet) look like Thai basil?
I see, on another link for basil, some Chinese transliterations. One is "tyu ssu". I'm not familiar with Cantonese, but do the 't' and 'd' cross over as some of the transliterations in Mandarin?
'tyu - dyu -doo / ssu-soo?
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-------On the other hand, I've already got a bag of peppercorns. But I'm worried about the day I run out. Don't you feel it, now, too? It's a good sized bag for a buck, sure, but do you really want to be invested like this?---------
When this ban first started, I was able to buy some on e-bay. The price was inflated, of course, but not THAT high. Last I heard, you could still get them there.
Also, the 'CMC company', referred to by Dunlop, has them. I ordered from there, too -- recently.
Quality-wise, they seem fine.
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My own personal m.o. has always been to follow the taste. Unfortunatel in the vast majority of cases, nonfood factors enter into a persons appreciation of a meal - decor, service, ambience, etc. These things are not USUALLY germane to the quality of the food.
This is interesting.
We always appreciate a clean restaurant, with a pleasing decor, service, etc. It affects our visual pleasure and all that, but it is the food we go for -- not the surroundings ---usually.
But for some reason, at least for me, I am more tolerant of the seedier appearing Chinese restaurant than I would be of another restaurant -- ethnic or not. The food is the important thing. The so-called "Down and Dirties" in NYC are an example. I can overlook leaky bathrooms, and torn linoleum if the dumplings are hand-made & hearty, and soup broths have depth. I don't need to be catered to, or fawned over, if the kitchen produces quality food.
Along with that, the most handsome of places will last only as long as critical eaters are pleased with the kitchen.
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Are these like the candied apples that always shown in documentaries on Beijing?
Like the fruit in this link? I believe they are 'haw fruit' and if I remember correctly, they were sour.
http://members.aol.com/lumabner/china/grap...2000/hawboy.jpg
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Ben Hong --- Thanks for the reminder timeline. The history of the Chinese in North America is fascinating. We are all richer for it.
While I agree that the concerns of 'The HongKong takeover' brought an influx of superior restaurants to NYC's Chinatown, I feel that it was the lifting of The Immigration Act that made the biggest changes to the existing restaurants. It didn't happen all at once, and it happened very gradually in the burbs, but in NYC's Chinatown itself, there was more than the stereotypical Chinese foods. Before anyone ever heard of Cold Sesame Noodle, it was the rage at Hua Yuan on East Broadway. This was in the 70s. Sichuanese restaurants were there, and AAMOF were all over Manhattan. ChiuChow, and Shanghai restaurants came somewhat later, but all well before the mid-90s when the big influx came from Hong Kong.
Before the lifting of the Immigration Act, I had some pretty interesting food back in the 50s - (in NYC--not the suburbs) It is what really stimulated my interest, and I remember the dish that finally made me buy my first Chinese cookbook - Cabbage in Cream Sauce. (This was not Trader Vic food or sweet/sour stuff.) But of course that was the big city. In the towns, at that time (the 50s) it was different.
Fascinating subject.
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Flaky pastry with winter melon filling. Anything with nuts --- especially the chewy nut squares.
If I had to make a choice between these and NY Cheesecake, I'd have to have some of each. (Along with a cup of coffee and a cup of tea.
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SLKINSEY --- Thank for the tips on "Quote boxes". I think I have it now, and am red-faced because I couldn't figure it out for myself. LOL!
About the question of the Top 5 Chinese restaurants in America (or, really, North America). ----Aren't some of the major restaurant guides reliant on diner votes, rather than actual knowledge of the food? I've added my thoughts to Zagat's surveys, and If I had any hang-ups, it would alter the star quality of the restaurant -- good or bad. If a number of people like Sweet/Sour Pork in one place but not the Pork with Chinese Pickle in another, then The S/S Pork restaurant gets the plug, even if the Pickle place has superior food.
Who is qualified to judge? Do dining critics really know their stuff, or are they just good writers?
Even with those who really know their Chinese food, do they have their own biases? Would regional prejudices be a factor?
(I'm so glad I someone told me about eGullet. So many interesting discussions!)
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There is a herb that we use in clam, mussel, or other seafood dishes. That herb is very much like basil in shape; the aroma is slightly different. It's called "doo soo" (Cantonese phonetics). The leaves are variegated maroon and green, not shiny like traditional basil. You can find it in Chinese greengrocers, or try to find seeds. Be careful when growing it in the garden though, because once it takes, it really takes over and proliferates. My female elders used to have it planted as houseplants in pots. No clam dish is really "complete" without it.
Is it more savory and aromatic than Chinese spinach/amaranth? (?een cai/xian cai?) One of the spinach varieties came immediately to mind, because of the red/green color.
Or am I way off?
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I'm from NJ (via Mass.), but is it really a regional thing?
To me, the chef is the important element, followed by the demands of the clientele. A good chef from HK, or the RC, or the PRC, or homegrown can settle anywhere, and that is where the good food is. IMMHP.
Find an area that has a large ethnic settlement, and you will probably find good/excellent food. Again IMMHO.
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Hi this is Cecil from China 46. ---Our Shanghai Stir Fry noodles are like those thick and hearty noodles you are talking about. ---Most of our noodes in soup are thin noodles (not very thin but thin compared to the Shanghai Stir Fry). ---Our Thin Noodle with Chicken is the thinest, it is like angel-hair noodles. ---Besides these noodles we also have Chow Fun noodles which are wide and flat noodles that are made out of rice. ---Our Shi Zi Tou -- Lions Head Meatballs used to be a special, but now it is available everyday. ---Looking foreward to see you,
Cecil --- Thank you for that explanation about your noodles. I look forward to many visits! The problem will be -----What to select first!!!!
May I ask you the meaning of your logo --- "Jiu Yu" -- nine fish??
( Pardon the bold/italics. I haven't figured how to get quotes in that box, yet. )
Jo-Ann
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May I add one small little tip to the excellent ones on this topic?
If you have allowed the meat to sit in its marinade for awhile, the slices/shreds/dices will tend to clump together. Before they go in the oil, give the meat a stir to separate the pieces.
I scoop, or rather -- shove them gently over the surface of the oil, rather than push them all in, all at once. They are easier to separate that way, and allow the surfaces of each piece to come into contact with the oil.
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(Hope you all don't mind my bringing up an old topic. I'm still wading my way through all the wonderful posts.)
It's hard to add to the wonderful books listed in this thread! From my first Calvin Lee's "Chinese Cooking for American Kitchens, in the '50s, to Dunlop's Land of Plenty -- my newest, I cherish them all. There is always something special to find in even the most humble of books. I can't pick a favorite. They are like friends.
I do agree about Tropp's "China Moon", and I'm delighted to see the Chinese food/culture books included. Fascinating readings!
My copy of "The Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters is being held together by elastics!
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OK to add something to this thread? (Since I found this wonderful site, I've been like a kid in a candy shop!)
I have both a big aluminum steamer and several sizes of bamboo ones. I use them all, but prefer the bamboo.
Someone asked what else besides fish is steamed. I like Scallops with Black Bean Sauce, but a favorite is Steamed Beef with Spicy Rice Powder. (I wish I could give credit for the original recipe, but I forgot where I found it.)
SPICY RICE PSTEAMED BEEF WITH OWDER
Ingredients:
½ pound flank steak
Marinade: 1 Tbsp. dark soy sauce
1 Tbsp. light soy sauce
1 Tbsp. sherry
2 tsp. hoisin sauce
½ tsp. chili paste with garlic
1 tsp. sugar
1 Tbsp. minced scallion
1 tsp. minced ginger
1 tsp. minced garlic
1 Tbsp. sesame oil
1 Tbsp. cornstarch mixed with 1 Tbsp. water
2/3 cup glutinous (sweet/sticky) rice, rinsed and soaked 4 hours in hot water. Drain.
½ tsp. five spice powder
1 Tbsp. minced scallion
Preparation:
---Slice steak across the grain into pieces ¼ inch thick and 1 ½ inch long.
---Mix the marinade. Add the steak. Mix well. Let marinate 1 hour.
---Place the soaked, drained rice in a heavy dry pan or skillet and stir over medium heat until the
rice is golden brown and very dry.
---Remove from heat, place into a blender or food processor with the steel blade and process to a coarse powder.
---Mix the rice powder with the five-spice powder.
---Dredge the pieces of beef in the rice powder until they are well coated.
---Place the slices on a heat-proof plate in one layer, or place them in a steamer tray that has been lined with
parchment paper that has been poked with holes or lined with leafy greens.
Cooking:
--Fill a wok with water to come below the plate about an inch, or to the bottom edge of the steamer tray.
--Bring water to a boil and place the plate or tray over the boiling water.
--Cover the steamer and steam over high heat for 20 minutes until meat is cooked and rice is tender.
--Sprinkle the scallions over the top of the slices and serve.
Notes:
Instead of glutinous rice, use long grain rice and skip the soaking. Toast the rice till light brown, then pulverize till about 1/3 the original size. Combine with the five-spice powder.
Rice crumbs can also be found in Chinese grocers in small cardboard packages, labeled ‘Steamed Rice Powder’.
Cream of Rice cereal can be substituted. Toast the cereal, then combine with the five-spice powder.
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I was curious about basil in Chinese cooking. Being rather a traditionalist, I have never experimented with it. However I wanted to know a little more about it, and Frederick Simoons, in his book "Food in China", mentions that basil was introduced to China from India in the 6th century. He describes its use as a flavoring, " though it is seldom mentioned in Chinese cookbooks.
He also mentions that it provides perfume, and is sown in garden to mask the bad odor of fertilizer.
So -- it is not unknown there, it simply is, or hasn't been used traditionally.
But, it seems that more and more chefs are bringing out new dishes. Good for them!
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Even if this doesn't have anything to do with food----- It is 'food for thought' for me. I love this topic. The different spellings/transliterations/dialects interest me ------The food delights me!
I did a paper once, on the different factors which kept China unified over the centuries. The Chinese character was right up there with Confucianism. So my appreciation for the printed 'word' grows. I love the dialects, -- but I have deep respect for the character.
About the food -- the first dish I had from this area was chicken in a bed of deep/fried green leaves. It turned out to be spinach, and what a wonderful flavor experience that was!! From what I've read, the original greens , in the original dish, were from the sweet potato vine, but the spinach was wonderful!
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RE Mr. Chu and Harry & Bills --- so THAT's the story!! Someone had said that H&B was ticked that their menu was being used somewhere else (If I got the story straight)
About a year ago I went to Noodle Chu and was pleased with what I had. (but forgot what I had!) I'm always pleased when I see Chinese Sausage used in a dish on the menu. (Noodletown in NYC has a casserole with Chinese Sausage, and it is rib sticking)
At Noodle Chu, I did a no-no. I didn't think about the 'face' issue at the time. On the menu, the Chinese characters were mixed up. The characters said "black bean sauce', the English said black pepper sauce', and I mentioned it. I hope they don't remember me when I go back.
Further out on 46, there used to be a noodle place that had 'Dao Mian' --- knife cut noodles. Mostly they were in soup, but they stir/fried them for me, when I asked. I don't know if they are still there.
So much good Chinese food out there! Thanks to the Asian population in the burbs, you can eat happily, locally.
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WOW! What a response!! Thanks to all of you for the information and links. I see I've got some serious eating ahead of me! Leek Boxes! Aside from a small place in Blmfld, the only places I've seen them are in the 'cooked food' sections of Chinese supermarkets.
Since Ocean King closed in Livingston, I've been concentrating on China Gourmet, near Pal's in West Orange. They are not Shanghainese, but they have a Chinese menu, from which I order. They have sandy pot casseroles of which I am fond, and Chinese vegetables in season.
I've never understood why some Sweet/Sour restaurants, which have 'good' reputations, have never offered Chinese vegetables -- Chinese broccoli, you cai, pea tops, etc. Sooooo good, and yet not at all daring for those with timid tastes.
AFA the Chinese characters, I love the challenge. I barely get by in the language, but when it is written in free form, rather than print, I'm just about lost. BUT-- it means that the clientele is Chinese, and I am comfortable with that.
Again - thanks for all your input. So glad this site was pointed out to me!
P.S. ---- Are your thought on Chengdu 46 the same as mine? Expensive, food prepared well, small servings, small menu, but doesn't stray from the standards? It always seems to get the 'stars', but I guess that is determined by who is voting.
The Chow Mein Topic
in China: Cooking & Baking
Posted
For myself, I've always differentiated it as Chow Mein (as in 'main') and Chao Mian.
Speaking of the Western Chow Mein and it's sister -- Chop Suey, I read somewhere, that years ago there was a restaurant (??Hong Kong, Singapore??) that had a sign in the window saying:Authentic American Chop Suey served here". LOL!