Tonyfinch

Dodger, do you know ANYBODY who eats margarine as opposed to butter because they prefer the taste? Thought not. People eat margarine because they have been duped into believing that it is better for them,or at least less harmful, than butter. It is the biggest food con trick perpetrated on the British public in the last 20 years and there's nothing "elitist" about knowing it and saying so.

Second Andys Recc. I also ate there when it was 21 Queen St. The food was fine but my main memory is of thre building's fire alarm going off and we all had to evacuate into the freezing Tyneside night in the middle of the meal for about half an hour Fortunately we'd just finished and we got a cognac on the house. Don't know what happened to those who were half way through their main courses though.

I agree with whoever said a few pages back that the word "elite" is being used far too loosely here. It does not mean the same as arrogant or snobbish or superior or expert. You can be all those things and not be part of an elite. Elites are essentially designed to exclude those who are not its members. They are neccessarily restrictive and work to further their own influence and power over those who are not its members. Elites always have a vested interest in their own perpetuation .The terms under which you can become part of an elite are defined by the elite itself. The aim of an elite is always to maintain power in its particular chosen field. Membership of egullet is open and unrestricted. People choose to be members and choose to post. It is therefore the opposite of "elitist". Having knowledge of food, wine and restaurants and having a strong opinion about them does not make you "elitist". It might make you bloody annoying but it doesn't make you elitist.

It is not a question with any meaning. It cannot be answered. The only question you can ask is "Does this food serve the purpose that I have for it and for which it is designed?"

Hate half bottles. They always look so much smaller than half a full bottle. But they always cost more.

Obviously with young people there are financial issues and given the choice between spending on food and spending on drink/drugs/clothes/clubs/cars etc its probably no contest. However I think its wider than that. We don't teach our young people to eat well. We don't counter the massive advertising influence of the fast food chains with any sort of home or school based education. How many families insist on sitting down to a home cooked meal together at least once a day? It seems a quaintly old fashioned notion somehow, doesn't it? How often do we go out to restaurants en famille, as happens on the Continent? We don't teach young people how to cook either at home or in schools. And yes Kiku, because we live in a culture which sees eating and drinking alcohol as different spheres of activity, the pleasures of one are not inextricably linked with the pleasures of the other.

I think an interest in food and good, or at least better, eating has begun to transcend class lines in this country. Cookery books sell in millions, cookery programmes are watched by millions and supermarkets are forced to provide an ever widening range of diverse food and wine. What that interest does not appear to have transcended is age lines. Young people in this country, and I suspect the States, eat shite 90% of the time. How many young people do you know who take an active interest in cooking and in what they eat? Look at any branch of McDonalds or Burger King or Pizza Hut and calculate the percentage of customers under 25. This is why I can't dislike Jamie Oliver. He is at least attempting to show younger people that cooking and eating well can be fun. It is a serious issue as reliance on junk food is storing up future health problems for a lot of people. Forget "Food Technology". Cooking and Eating should be a compulsory national curriculum subject in all our schools from 5 on.

I'm not saying such a restaurant can't be any good. I'm saying it should not be charging the same prices as the chef's home restaurant- in this case more than any other restaurant in London by some margin

Pierre Gagnaire's absence from this place continues to bug me. Is he a feature of these restaurants or not? The place is charging far more than any other London restaurant but the involvement of the top chef is fuzzy to say the least. Does it matter? It does if you see food as art at this level. There are some fake paintings that are so like the original that it takes top experts to tell the difference. Does it matter? Well the market says it does. You pay a fraction of the cost for the fake although to all intents and purposes no-one can tell the difference. So in Sketch you're paying for Gagnaire type food-but not Gagnaire's food-but unlike the painting you're paying exactly the same prices. I think this is wrong and I think it is cynical. Mind you if someone wants to take me there..............

Er....why on earth would you want to pair duck with cheese?

I once snored my way through the whole of Miss Saigon, including the part where a helicopter lands on the stage. This was after a pre theatre meal at Christopher's. I KNEW I shouldn't have had that second cognac ( but what I REALLY mean is that I knew I shouldn't have booked tickets for Miss Saigon) Decided after that to give up the theatre.

II

Bushey, do you have to eat with your kids EVERY night? Why not leave them in the flat with a take away and a video one night and take yourselves out to a high end place without them? See the London Dining thread for lots of suggestions.

Maybe it was Sunday night when I drove past. A couple of years ago I enjoyed several meals both at Maison Novelli and the (slightly) cheaper brasserie next door. I especially remember an excellent version of Koffmans Pied de Cochon (acknowledged) and Novelli's trademark desserts with all those wild strands of caramel. Then the brasserie disappeared and prices at the main restaurant shot up. If its still going what are the prices like now?

No longer exists. It's now called L'Estaminet and serves a similar mainstream French cuisine as Mon Plaisir but in slightly more interesting surroundings. BTW how do you eat a full meal before the theatre without falling asleep the moment the curtain goes up?

For an English breakfast you'll never forget you should try the Ten Deadly Sins at Simpson's in the Strand. It'll cost for five of you but then again you're unlikely to want to eat again that day. Don't plan on doing anything too strenuous afterwards.

It was well shut when I drove past the other (Friday) night. And I couldn't see any Maison Novelli signs.

Please don't. I wouldn't want anyone doing that on my account

Make sure you report Andy. I'm thinking of going there with a wine buff friend next month.

I use EVOO for just about everything. A basic supermarket brand for cooking and higher grades for using cold. EVOO loses its distinctive flavour when heated, which is just what you want in most dishes. I just like the idea of Olive Oil in my food as opposed to other neutral tasting oils like sunflower or "vegetable"

For those members interested BYOB at QC is a mere £5 per bottle.

Of course you would have a hard time. But who rank orders from that perspective? No-one as far as I can see. Instead people compare like with like (is Beethoven's 5th better than his 3rd? Is Mary Had a Little Lamb better than Pat a Cake Pat a Cake Baker's Man?) Just because both fit the definition of "music" doesn't mean the comparison is meaningful. Its like asking "Is an Armani suit "better" than a pair of Nike Trainers."? They both count as "clothes". They're both worn, as Music is listened to, or food is eaten.But the comparison is meaningless for the purpose of intelligent discussion.

Personally I refuse to buy anything you can't put in a dishwasher so very expensive glassware is out for me. The quality of the actual glass makes no difference whatsoever to the flavour of the wine. This is not to say that wine doesn't look and feel a lot better in high quality glasses. The shape of the glass can be important for red wines-a deep bowl with enough space between the wine and the top of the glass to let you get your nose in. Flutes hold the fizz for sparkling wines for longer but personally I don't like them as I prefer the fizz to subside. I believe the sahpe of the glass makes little or no difference to the flavour of white wines or fortified wines.

Not so much elitist as sensualist. The reason WASP countries have less of an interest in food is because the foundations of Protestanism lay in the rejection of the perceived practices of the corrupt Catholoic church. The rules of celibacy and asceticsm were compromised by lustful priests, gluttonous friars etc. The new Puritans were obsessed with ensuring the denying of sensual pleasures. Anything that could inflame lustful thoughts, let alone acts,was suspect. Food and drink had been long thought to be key catalysts in promoting lust. One of the reasons for the rejection of spicy and highly seasoned foods from the WASP diet was the belief that spices and seasonings inflamed the blood. Food came to be seen as a means to an end. Anyone seeing it as an end in itself had,per se., been corrupted by it. Its taken a long time for WASP countries to begin to shake off this legacy and its true that in many parts of the WASP world anyone who takes a deep interest in food for sensual pleasure is still regarded uneasily.

Cabrales. If you feel comfortable doing so perhaps you can explain why you care what the restaurant thinks about you not wishing for cheese and desert