brescd01

I am from NYC and I am a relentless booster for Philadelphia's virtues, I guess that just the instinct to boost raises the question of "he doth protest too much" and reveals my sense that Philadelphia needs some cheerleading sometimes. But mostly I am constantly appraising and re-appraising my life and choices I have made and appreciating the virtues of the city I choose to call home, as well as realizing its shortcomings. That said, I think food in Philly is a vulnerability compared to NYC (though not necessarily to any lesser city), I know there is endless back-and-forth on this topic and my appreciation and experience is yet less refined than many here who regularly sample the best of NYC. But I went with my parents to Union Trust and we had a very nice time, much nicer than the first time I went. And this is on top of a very nice experience I had at Table 31 with my wife. And we have enjoyed numerous nice times at Barclay Grill. And after a mediocre first impression at Butcher and Singer I had a lovely if purposeless business dinner there. And so I propose, and I am not sure if this is original, while Philly appears to have cultivated and perfected the "gastro-pub" I wonder if Philly has now cultivated and perfected a new type of restaurant, the "steak + house." This is a restaurant whose main draw is steak, but offers a full menu in addition. Steakhouses, pace that Brooklyn temple of beef whose name escapes me, have never been that big a deal in NYC, or at least they weren't when I left in 2000. Smith and Wolensky is one of the first and most profitable chains to proliferate and I take them as the example, lots of meat and everything else really a distraction. But Barclay Grill, Union Trust, and Table 31 actually put a lot of effort into highlighting other parts of their menu, and while they are not exactly pushing the envelope of what is possible on a plate, they may be pushing the envelope of what is possible while doing steaks flawlessly. Discuss.

I returned with my wife to Table 31 for dinner. It was expensive (nearly $100/person) with drinks, tax and tip. We ate at the bar. The service was exceptionally warm and unpretentious. I think I unintentionally pissed off our server several times but she hid it well and did not spit in my drink or anything like that. Actually, the place the service reminded me of was...Brasserie Perrier. I thought the food was excellent. I did not like my veal (I thought it overcooked) but everything else we had was delicious. Drinks were strong. While we enjoyed the steaks last time, this time we focused on the expanded Italian menu. My only gripe is the vibe: the place is not nearly busy enough for a Saturday night in a lonely spot in the "bad part of town (from a vibe perspective)." Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of wonderful chefs in Philly, and I love Garces and Vetri as much as the next guy, but Scarduzio's Italian offerings are delicious in a rub-your-belly way that Vetri's intellectualized Italian at Osteria could never be for me, and he is the only chef in Philly who cooks stuff I would cross town to eat specifically because his name is on it, because it is a guarantee that I will be treated well and that most of my meal will be delicious.

I tried Wegman's grass-fed beef. It is nicely packaged and is marginally better than any other grass-fed beef I have tried in the USA (though Noble's was very nice, I really mean "beef that I cooked myself"). But how to cook grass-fed beef? The visual cues that show the meat is done are entirely different, I think one has to use an entirely different method. They are almost resistant to searing and by the time you think they are seared, they are over-cooked.

My wife and I tried Noble Wednesday night. We liked the vibe and the service very much. For instance, my wife spilled a whole glass of ice water and the staff quickly made it a memory by moving us to the next table. The whole staff really tried to give good service throughout the meal, in fact. The food was tasty, a bit precious for my tastes, but tasty, and there was something about the place that was warm and relaxing, the service, the crowd, I am not sure, but my wife and I thought the bar would be a great place to return to. I had the grass-fed rib eye and I thought this was very interesting for several reasons. First, I am not knowledgeable enough to make definitive statements, but this is the first time I have eaten in a restaurant in the USA that advertized its beef as "grass-fed." Second, I really, really enjoy grass-fed beef. I did not find the meat so flavorful (though it was extremely tender) compared to the beef I ate in Spain (which is exclusively grass-fed), but I had the same "un-sick" feeling after I ate this as I did in Spain when I ate beef there. I cannot be more precise except to say that as wonderful as American marbled beef is, after I eat it, I have this nauseus "I can't believe I ate the whole thing" feeling that I do not get with grass-fed beef, and this is not strictly an issue of portions. The restaurant was pricey, I do not eat in any sort of formula but our meal was $69 dollars/person with tip. Nevertheless, my wife and I will probably return to the bar for the warm service and vibe (classy not pretentious).

I am coming to Oyster House tonight with my wife: can I bring my dog?

No Katie, you are wrong, I dont think I was "right" and the restaurant "wrong." I don't think morality enters into it. The restaurant business is not a question of morality, but of money, and where diners spend it. They can spend it where they choose. You are very determined that I should "admit" I was "wrong," though since this tale was of two parties, restaurant and customer, both of whom did nothing, I am not sure what I would be "wrong" about, except how I felt. You feel strongly about my views because I published them in a public forum. But most customers will never tell you why they will not come back to your restaurant, and their reasons will probably be more trivial than my own. In fact, while I appreciate other people's opinions on this thread, a lot of posters (particularly Boagman) have made assumptions about the kind of person I am or how I would have behaved had there been other circumstances. I don't think that is fair. I was very polite. I tipped generously. I did not make a scene. I was dressed nicely (as was my wife) and our dog always draws attention because he is very striking looking, like a Ferrari in front of a hotel. In short I was the ideal customer. Except I did not feel treated that way.

This thread should not be about me but what happened. While everyone has been quick to tell me what poor judgment I used bringing my dog and how Solomon-like the restaurant's owner was, restaurants in Philadelpha with outdoor seating have no problem taking the money of dog owners eager to share a meal with their pets. By the way, when I wrote that I was "angry and bitter," that was tongue in cheek. I got my suit cleaned and I am already looking for more restaurants. A lot of them in the neighborhood have outdoor seating. Only a few steps from Meme there is Pub and Kitchen, Ten Stone, Meritage, Mama Palma, Dmitri's, all with outdoor seating, all welcome pets, all want my loyalty and hard-earned cash in this recession. Which shall I chose? The one that "fulfills its obligations?" Or the one that goes the extra mile?

Katie you are in the food industry. And I am not. So that I cannot really, truly "understand" the restaurant's side, is okay. I will always be just a customer. I am not sure how I slammed Meme. I stated exactly what occurred. Everyone but one in this thread has felt that the restaurant behaved in an exemplary fashion, and that I am grievously at fault for even FEELING disappointment. So I think theoretically I have BOOSTED the restaurant, not slammed it. In any event, as Meanderer pointed out, I will not go to a restaurant with outdoor seating with my dog, without checking the forecast, again, so no restaurant will ever have to experience my bad vibes again, at least for this reason.

Tri2Cook, I was just seeking others' opinions because I was genuinely interested! I am not from the "Communist" school of thought where I am only happy if the people I address are all clapping in unison to show there approval! And Meanderer, you are quite right! Tim, thanks for the acknowledgement! I make no assumptions about whether you agree with me or not, but the storm was impressively bad. And any dog owner will tell you, pets can be like that, nervous one moment and well-behaved the next. A lot of animals have separation anxiety, my dog is one of them. Sorry. Look, I will have to live with the fact that most people on this board feel that I thought bad thoughts unfairly. I hope that everyone here is equally critical of themselves when they need someone else's indulgence, but are not entitled to it!

Wow, I was not aware that going for a walk with my wife and dog in my own neighborhood after a very hard day's work was "risky" behavior! We were not aware that there was an impending storm. Also, we do not go everywhere with our dog, on the contrary. But there are numerous restaurants with outdoor seating that benefit from dog-owners seeking places they can dine with their dogs. And the restaurants happily take their money. The couple next to us, who was brought inside, brought their baby in baby carriage, by the way, another "thing" some people don't like at dinner. There are sillier reasons not to go to one restaurant or the other, that is why the restaurant business is so tough. I am not sure why my not having enjoyed my experience is not as good a reason as any not to return. I have probably boosted the business of this restaurant because people will queue up there to show their support to the couragious owner who stood up to us and did...nothing.

I am gratified that there is a more mixed response than initially, though I think everyone apears to have preconceived notions. I was not "entitled." I tipped the waiter as I normally would and I did not give him a hard time, though I did say I disagreed with the owner's decision. And I am not sure how I am "bad-mouthing" a restaurant by repeating exactly what happened. I wonder which of you was in Philadelpia last night: one could not walk the dog home or anything in the deluge. When it was merely raining, we did exactly that, walk home with the dog, but by then we had finished our meal and were soaked. And I did not think the dog should stay in indefinitely, just for the duration of the worst of the storm. If the owner had offered to prepare our meal to go, we probably would have accepted and taken a cab. But no one offered that to us. The money meant nothing to me, my feelings and my ruined evening meant much more. Lesson learned. But we won't be returning.

I accept the will of eGullet, but I think the owner could have done a 100 gracious things, none of which he attempted, and the restaurant was so empty he cut staff (I know because our waiter said he was leaving). He could have prepared our meals to go, he could have held the order and told us to bring the dog home and come back. We couldn't go in and discuss the matter with him because we were tethered to the dog outside. Why is the fear of the dog reg so great? People violate all sorts of regs now and again, but I have seen only one place flout the dog rule, a bar in Old City that was popular amongst the vet students, and I don't know if it is still so carefree or open.

When I came home from work today I was determined to take my wife out. The weather seemed so nice we brought our dog as well and walked in the direction of Meme. Of course neither of us looked at the forecast. We took a table outside with our dog in tow and placed our order. With almost theatrical timing after we placed our order the clouds became ominous and there was lightning. The staff invited other diners indoors but not us, because we had our little dog. And we would not abandon him. The result was obvious, we were drenched and ate our dinner miserable and wet despite the awnings. Our waiter specifically asked the owner if we could come indoors just for the duration of the storm and we were refused. No dishes were comped and no one graciously offered to pay to press my suit or anything like that. Vis a vis the food I did not enjoy my entree (swordfish) but I liked the appetizer (octopus). So I ask the Board, did the owner act fairly? Can I be angry and bitter? Lest anyone rip into me on suspicion of maltreatment of staff, I tipped the waiter 20 % because I know the owner kept us outside not him, and he certainly tried to help us. But I doubt I will return.

In response to recs for these places on the fora (both eGullet and Chowhound), I tried Paradiso (with my wife last week) and Le Virtu (with my wife and parents last night). I tried Osteria for the third time Friday night for a business dinner. First, Osteria: I don't like it. I have not liked it any of the times I went either, so this is not just a bad night. The service is warm and the vibe is lively, I definitely felt each time I was in a happening place. But it is also noisy and less comfortable than either Le Virtu or Paradiso. I do not understand the menu in that I am sure there is endless refinement in the recipes, the pizzas, etc, but I am not smart enough to appreciate it. The presentations and flavors taste precious to me, for example a special ravioli I had that was so delicate I did not feel I ate anything afterwards. I had sea bass, and it was well prepared and its tomatoes were delicious, but in the end, it felt like French nouvelle cuisine rather than what Italian means to me. I had gelato for dessert and this was robust and tasty. Service was warm and attentive, but again, the whole production was pretentious in that the "special" pizza was "Sicilian" style rather than "Neapolitan" style. It tasted good but not particularly specific and I don't think pizza are so refined or distinctive in Italy. I have been to Italy once and the pizza I had in Milan was wonderful, but tasted like NYC pizza to the tenth power. Focaccia, a similar item distinctive to Lombardy, varied from one place to another in the same city (Genoa) in a way that would defy generalization, and I think pizza is probably the same. I just don't feel Italian food lends itself to such intellectual approaches. Paradiso and Le Virtu succeed for me in this area, that one does not have the sense that the dishes were intellectualized. Call it dummed down. One vituperative post on Chowhound lamented the amateurish service at Le Virtu and I found very amusing to observe that in fact, the service was amateurish compared to the polished service at Paradiso. But that does not mean I got bad service at Le Virtu. Paradiso was my favorite of the three. Its service was warm and attentive but not overbearing. The food was good but did not rock my world. I had the oso bucco and it tasted good though not at all distinctive. Nothing was really distinctive or memorable, just fresh and tasty. We enjoyed ourselves. While I liked Le Virtu I think my family was unimpressed. And why should they be? The food was mostly forgettable like Paradiso's, maybe slightly less distinctive or tasty. Its web site advertises that it contributes to PAWS but my request to bring my dog to the patio was a no-go. I had the timbalo because it is a famous dish but it was nothing special. Nothing was special. The patio is very pretty. I thought my wife's seafood plate looked nice and its fish seemed fine. But again, not memorable. Osteria cost the same as Paradiso, I think $55/person. Le Virtu $45/person. This is approximately what I spent, not a formula or what they will cost someone else.

My wife and I ate at Paradiso on the recommendation of my tailor, who is a distant relative of the owner. The food was not outstanding but it was very good and everything was tasty. The service was exceptionally warm, and I mean exceptional. What is the type of service that is not so fawning as to be annoying but generous enough that you feel really, really relaxed? In any event, we will go back there, though I can see that the menu is kind of limited so we will have to limit the visits so as not to get bored.

My unique spin on Philadelphia cuisine vs NYC cuisine: Philadelphia has a much more laid-back vibe and respects beer much more than NYC. Belgian beer is big here, not in NYC. A lot of our better ethnic foods are more accessible than in NYC. For example, Mexican. Picanha is not the best of its type and there are other options as cheap in NYC (I was to one on Central Avenue in Yonkers) but Picanha is so much easier to get to. I like El Balconcito but a small chain of take-out places in Manhattan beat it, and they deliver (their name escapes me). I am a huge booster for Philly, I love this city, but I do not think there is really anything we have that NYC doesn't have in terms of cuisine (or anything else except for cheese steaks, roast pork sandwiches, and Belgian beer). But everything, from high-end restaurants to gastropubs to ethnic is so much easier to get to. Two things we do NOT have is delivery, and a variety of prepared food sources. Di Brunos is nice but monotonous. The selection of gourmet supermarkets in NYC is incredible. Things started with Fairway I guess and grew from there in the nineties. Delivery is always a struggle here.

I tried Whole Foods grass-fed beef @ $15/rib eye steak. I was disappointed for several reasons. First of all, I don't think it tasted that good. Kind'a gamey in a bad way. Because it is not marbled, it cooks in an entirely different way, and I barely know how to cook regular steak properly. Not what I had in Spain, that is for sure.

I vote against. My wife and I went for our 7th anniversary tonight. We brought beer (though we were the only ones, everyone else had wine). The service and atmosphere were fine, though the restaurant was way too warm. I had the crostini and steak, and my wife had the oysters and little pig. Nothing was bad, but nothing was that good either. My crostini were pointless, they were big gobs of porc pate on toast. My steak was lean but tough and tasteless. Its sauce was okay. Fries were okay. My wife's little pig was too salty and busy. We skipped dessert because we were too warm and we went across the street to Gosala (sic?), a small place devoted to chocolate, and we had gelato. We preferred Bibou.

Enriched by eGullet advice, Pudlo, Lebay, Gayot, and the recent book "Je me ferais bien un..." this is my current list. Le Winch 44 rue Damremont 75018 42230463 Chez Georges 273 boulevard Pereire 75017 45743100 Le Ballon des Ternes 103 avenue des Ternes 75017 45741798 Bar a Huitres 69 avenue Wagram 75017 43806354 La Cabane a Huitres 4 rue Antoine Bourdelle 75015 45494727 Bistrot du Dôme 1 rue Delambre 75014 43353200 L'Europeen 21 bis boulevard Diderot 75012 43439970 Devez 5 place de l'Alma 75008 53679753 Brasserie Lorraine 2-4 place des Ternes 75008 56212200 Huitrerie Regis 3 rue Montfaucon 75006 44411007 Chez Jenny 39 boulevard du Temple 75003 44543900 A Casaluna 4 rue Beaujolais 75001 42600511

Another vote for Snockey's. I did not try anything but their oysters, but they were perfectly served and shucked. They also have a large selection. Very nice people too.

Which Chez George and what's wrong with it?

For a clueless tourist-to-be, can someone suggest what a typical bill might be for 2 people at each of these often-recommended places (Goumard, Dome, BDD, Ecalier)? No wine.

In another thread, I asked "am I just cranky?" and I am pretty sure that I am in fact, cracky. That said, my crankiness did not prevent my appreciating this lovely restaurant. What a relief after Parc! The hostess (I understand she is the chef's wife) was over-the-top sweet. My wife was attracted to both her hunky husband and her, but the food kept me from worrying about this too much. I am so naive about continental food but of course French food is all about sauces and the sauce on my hanger steak was perfect, nothing like the nauseating slop on my steak at Parc. Our appetizers were great (I had gazpacho, my wife the snails). Plus the noise level is low. Of course, the space is quite tight. If I could just lose weight to fit comfortably in the restaurant....

eGullet rules: 1) Check eGullet for best advice available 2) eGullet not responsible for user's temporary insanity, dissociative episodes, or just plain self-destructive behavior. Though the guy in the chicken outfit outside the door (I am not kidding) should have been warning enough...

I tried Famous Daves (the one on Columbus Blvd), and boy, was it awful. Oh my G-d. Wings, burger and sides, not strictly BBQ but the same world. I hope I am not sick....